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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: icepac on May 09, 2011, 07:18:57 PM

Title: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: icepac on May 09, 2011, 07:18:57 PM
Is puffy ack such that it is programmed to explode randomly enemy planes regardless of speed, altitude, heading, and changes of all 3?

It seems to me it has no transit time from the "guns" it is supposed to have come from and that flying straight and level is just as unsafe as large high speed carving of the sky.

So....does puffy ack adjust during it's "flight" or is there no "flight" at all?
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: USCH on May 09, 2011, 07:21:06 PM
Good question!
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Babalonian on May 09, 2011, 07:46:27 PM
I believe it is a scripted random-generation "event" that is settup so that it changes and follows your aircraft constantly while you're in the area over a CV or over the strats.  So, to answer your question, there is no travel time, it just spawns in a random pattern around your aircraft when triggered.  I however do not know if speed, altitude over target, or evasive maneuvering has any impact on potential hits, you'll have to likely get that answer from those who wrote the script themselves if they feel the desire to indulge the information.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: prowl3r on May 09, 2011, 08:25:13 PM
it seems random to me as well however beware friendly puffy when near enemy a/c i have been shot sown like that, maybe a bug 4 hitech to fix?
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: infowars on May 09, 2011, 08:30:22 PM
aren't they magnetic and pop around metal objects?
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: hitech on May 09, 2011, 08:53:41 PM
aren't they magnetic and pop around metal objects?

The stuff people shoot is a proximity fuse.

The auto puffy ack randomness varies with speed range and g's.

HiTech

Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Sunka on May 09, 2011, 09:54:53 PM

And might i add ...that proximity ACK is so bad,i seen planes explode from a long range from where the ACK was aimed many many times,and though i dont think HiTech would ever admit it puffy ACK goes after the p51 worse then any other plane,which many of my squaddies will attest to as they seen me explode many times as they keep flying their hogs or what not.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: icepac on May 09, 2011, 10:47:28 PM
LOL

It does work well and I have no complaints.....was just looking for better way through it.

Good to see that it's an equal opportunity killer....except for the mustangs, of course.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Pyro on May 10, 2011, 07:48:58 AM
and though i dont think HiTech would ever admit it puffy ACK goes after the p51 worse then any other plane

You are correct, HiTech would never admit that.  There's a lot of other things he won't admit to either, I wonder why.   :noid
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Shuffler on May 10, 2011, 08:48:44 AM
Refer to 1.5525.456 Bottle Requirements for Fact Finding 02.04.2005 Vol 3
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Sunka on May 10, 2011, 09:35:22 AM
You are correct, HiTech would never admit that.  There's a lot of other things he won't admit to either, I wonder why.   :noid


Cause he is not sure why "his" coding dose some things. :D  Really though i know your coding dose not say it happens but go fly around a p51 and any other plane over a CV and count DMG on each pass,the p51 always gets more,I'm not making stuff up to bring down HTC ,maybe I'm just unlucky around CV's though.No matter that's the least of my worries when it comes to your game.  :salute HiTech i love that your so dedicated to your game and i would never change from your WWII flight Sim for any other.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Shuffler on May 10, 2011, 10:29:07 AM

Cause he is not sure why "his" coding dose some things. :D  Really though i know your coding dose not say it happens but go fly around a p51 and any other plane over a CV and count DMG on each pass,the p51 always gets more,I'm not making stuff up to bring down HTC ,maybe I'm just unlucky around CV's though.No matter that's the least of my worries when it comes to your game.  :salute HiTech i love that your so dedicated to your game and i would never change from your WWII flight Sim for any other.

Try an overflight in a 38. :D

tic tic boom!!
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Sunka on May 10, 2011, 10:36:31 AM
Try an overflight in a 38. :D

tic tic boom!!

Well that i can believe as a bomber is bigger.But i can believe that ,as i never tested with a 38 because i don't fly it.I bet the 51 is not the (only) plane the seems to have an ACK magnet in it.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: The Fugitive on May 10, 2011, 10:38:21 AM
Your unlucky. I fly 51's though puffy ack all the time and
Rarely takes hits
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Gryffin on May 10, 2011, 10:38:38 AM
The auto puffy ack randomness varies with speed range and g's.

Can you expand on this? Does this mean that more Gs and higher speed mean less chance of being hit?
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: gyrene81 on May 10, 2011, 10:38:53 AM
and here i thought it was the 109s that got it bad from puffy ack...  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Sunka on May 10, 2011, 10:44:11 AM
and here i thought it was the 109s that got it bad from puffy ack...  :headscratch:

No No i have been chasing 109's with my 51 through my own puffy ACK and i was the one killed. :bhead
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: hitech on May 10, 2011, 11:14:08 AM
Can you expand on this? Does this mean that more Gs and higher speed mean less chance of being hit?

I'm not sure I can because the above is fairly self evident but Ill try.

The system starts with a fixed dimension cuboid, and randomly creates flack bursts inside.
Your plane is positioned at the center of this cuboid.

As you fly faster that cuboid gets bigger.
As you fly father away the cuboid gets bigger.
As you turn harder the cuboid gets bigger.

There idea that a p51 gets target more is simply insane.
Here is the code that chooses a flacks target.
Note the bbs removed the i index after after the word CollideList


   for(i=0;i<Cnt;++i)
   {
      if(CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_BAD_GUY_OBJECT ||
         CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_USER_OBJECT ||
         CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_USER_DRONE ||
         CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_WEAPON)
      {
         if(bgclntGetObjectModelType(CollideList) == 32)//Hack for sheep
            continue;

#ifndef syscfgAUTO_TESTING

         if(AutoGun->ParentObject->Country != CollideList->Country)
#endif
         {

            maSUB_POINTS(Vec,AutoPnt,CollideList->Pnt);
            if(fabs(Vec.y) < _MIN_FLAK_ALT)
            {
               continue;
            }

            DistSqr = maVEC_LENGTH_SQR(Vec);
            if(DistSqr < MinDistSqr)
            {
               MinDistSqr = DistSqr;
               NewTargetObject = CollideList;
            }
         }
      }
   }

HiTech
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Sunka on May 10, 2011, 11:35:57 AM
I'm not sure I can because the above is fairly self evident but Ill try.

The system starts with a fixed dimension cuboid, and randomly creates flack bursts inside.
Your plane is positioned at the center of this cuboid.

As you fly faster that cuboid gets bigger.
As you fly father away the cuboid gets bigger.
As you turn harder the cuboid gets bigger.

There idea that a p51 gets target more is simply insane.
Here is the code that chooses a flacks target.
Note the bbs removed the i index after after the word CollideList
HiTech


I never claimed to be sane, :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Wiley on May 10, 2011, 12:11:00 PM
         if(bgclntGetObjectModelType(CollideList) == 32)//Hack for sheep


Why does that not surprise me?  :D

I don't think it goes after ponies more than other planes...  A far more likely supposition is that it probably just goes after certain players more than others based on a combination of score, chesspiece affiliation, time of day, and forum posting habits...  :noid

The CV puffy just sometimes gets freakishly lucky.  I did have to laugh the one day as I was on climbout from a field with a friendly CV nearby and was watching a pony come in at about 18k or so licking his chops at me around 14k in a jug.  He got within range of the puffy just as he rolled inverted to come down on me and first volley, *poof*, instant death, I got the proxy.  Grumbling PM about puffy effectiveness...

Wiley.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Babalonian on May 10, 2011, 12:55:04 PM
The stuff people shoot is a proximity fuse.

The auto puffy ack randomness varies with speed range and g's.

HiTech



Interesting...  gonna have to go play in some auto-puffy now, kinda answers a lot about why a gentle E-conserving maneuver to change direction has little change on the randomness of it but a quick haigh-G turn seems to cause a noticable pause with the bombardment.   :salute Sir
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Babalonian on May 10, 2011, 01:16:01 PM
You are correct, HiTech would never admit that.  There's a lot of other things he won't admit to either, I wonder why.   :noid

Do not feed the P-51 under-model conspiracists!   :bolt:

(pssst, I'll bribe ya with Girl Scout cookies for any dirt ya got on the Dora)


I'm not sure I can because the above is fairly self evident but Ill try.

The system starts with a fixed dimension cuboid, and randomly creates flack bursts inside.
Your plane is positioned at the center of this cuboid.

As you fly faster that cuboid gets bigger.
As you fly father away the cuboid gets bigger.
As you turn harder the cuboid gets bigger.

There idea that a p51 gets target more is simply insane.
Here is the code that chooses a flacks target.
Note the bbs removed the i index after after the word CollideList


   for(i=0;i<Cnt;++i)
   {
      if(CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_BAD_GUY_OBJECT ||
         CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_USER_OBJECT ||
         CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_USER_DRONE ||
         CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_WEAPON)
      {
         if(bgclntGetObjectModelType(CollideList) == 32)//Hack for sheep
            continue;

#ifndef syscfgAUTO_TESTING

         if(AutoGun->ParentObject->Country != CollideList->Country)
#endif
         {

            maSUB_POINTS(Vec,AutoPnt,CollideList->Pnt);
            if(fabs(Vec.y) < _MIN_FLAK_ALT)
            {
               continue;
            }

            DistSqr = maVEC_LENGTH_SQR(Vec);
            if(DistSqr < MinDistSqr)
            {
               MinDistSqr = DistSqr;
               NewTargetObject = CollideList;
            }
         }
      }
   }

HiTech

*scratches chin*
OK, so obviously it doesn't treat ponys any different (lol), but  there's something else potentialy more interesting I deciphered from that bit of code...

Auto-puffy ack skips running/hitting/poofing droped ordnance in route from an aircraft to its target as an object-class it seems (either obOC_BAD_GUY_OBJECT,  obOC_USER_OBJECT, or as  obOC_WEAPON), and that is reasonable and sensible.  But I wonder, is the potential there for manned-puffy-ack gunners, with their proximity fuses, to attempt to intercept and shoot down incoming ordnance (either large bombs or even torpedoes in the water)?... or is that idea/capability just way too far-fetched and out of AH's ballpark to further consider?
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: guttboy on May 10, 2011, 01:19:32 PM
         if(bgclntGetObjectModelType(CollideList) == 32)//Hack for sheep
            continue;



Hack for sheep.....hmmmmm are they coming back????

LOL!

Thanks for explaining it Hitech! 

I take away that the faster and more evasives you do the better chance you have of surviving!

Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: hitech on May 10, 2011, 01:38:20 PM
Do not feed the P-51 under-model conspiracists!   :bolt:

(pssst, I'll bribe ya with Girl Scout cookies for any dirt ya got on the Dora)


*scratches chin*
OK, so obviously it doesn't treat ponys any different (lol), but  there's something else potentialy more interesting I deciphered from that bit of code...

Auto-puffy ack skips running/hitting/poofing droped ordnance in route from an aircraft to its target as an object-class it seems (either obOC_BAD_GUY_OBJECT,  obOC_USER_OBJECT, or as  obOC_WEAPON), and that is reasonable and sensible.  But I wonder, is the potential there for manned-puffy-ack gunners, with their proximity fuses, to attempt to intercept and shoot down incoming ordnance (either large bombs or even torpedoes in the water)?... or is that idea/capability just way too far-fetched and out of AH's ballpark to further consider?

Not all weapon types are collideable and hence do not show up in the collision list, I.E. Troops can be shot but bullets can not be targeted.

HiTech
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Babalonian on May 10, 2011, 01:57:07 PM
Not all weapon types are collideable and hence do not show up in the collision list, I.E. Troops can be shot but bullets can not be targeted.

HiTech

So then large-ordnances errr closer to the side of bullets than to troops in terms of how their respective object-class is recognized in the game?  (large-ordnances being 1K, 2K, 4K-pnd bombs and 2K-pnd torpedoes (assuming that in the game torps are/could be more than just a visual effect on the water's surface))

Hmmm, guess it's time to take this to the wishlist forum, the fun that could be had if eventualy they get turned into collideable object classes, manned 5"ers or carrier aircraft attemting to intercept incoming ordnance and save their fleets, massive bomber formations having to take care not to drop onto friendly A/C lurking directly below them (or the comedy to ensue on 200 when the first enemy 262 or 163 gets killed by 999000 with a dropped egg), or we can recreate germany's attempts to destroy allied bomber formations by dropping 250kg centerline bombs into them mid-air...

Thanks for the information!

Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Slash27 on May 10, 2011, 01:58:44 PM
Why does puff ack follow you behind mountains and why does it kill friendly planes?
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Lusche on May 10, 2011, 02:01:22 PM
Why does puff ack follow you behind mountains and why does it kill friendly planes?

a) because it's just a virtual box around the target plane in which the random explosions appear, no actual projectiles flying through the air and thus no LOS calculations (yet?)

b) because explosions and shrapnel do not differentiate between friend or foe. You get hit, you get hurt. It's just disabled for manned guns for obvious reasons (human behaviour)
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Sunka on May 10, 2011, 02:01:50 PM
Do not feed the P-51 under-model conspiracists!   :bolt:

(pssst, I'll bribe ya with Girl Scout cookies for any dirt ya got on the Dora)


*scratches chin*
OK, so obviously it doesn't treat ponys any different (lol), but  there's something else potentialy more interesting I deciphered from that bit of code...

Auto-puffy ack skips running/hitting/poofing droped ordnance in route from an aircraft to its target as an object-class it seems (either obOC_BAD_GUY_OBJECT,  obOC_USER_OBJECT, or as  obOC_WEAPON), and that is reasonable and sensible.  But I wonder, is the potential there for manned-puffy-ack gunners, with their proximity fuses, to attempt to intercept and shoot down incoming ordnance (either large bombs or even torpedoes in the water)?... or is that idea/capability just way too far-fetched and out of AH's ballpark to further consider?

NO i would never say the 51 is under modeled ...It turns with a a6m its faster then a 190 and climbs better then a 38,just like the people want, that claim it is under modeled. :aok
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: RoGenT on May 10, 2011, 03:01:30 PM
I fly through puff ack in my 51 without taking too many hits. Of course I don't know about it over our own HQ while in a pony. However, I recently discovered that friendly HQ ack will damage friendlies. I was attacking B17s about 30K above it (in a 152) and I got set on fire from the ack.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: GNucks on May 10, 2011, 03:13:04 PM
I'd like to ask if the distance variable is measured in three dimensions. Does the random area that ack puffs appear in increase with greater altitude?
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Gryffin on May 10, 2011, 05:55:16 PM
Thanks for the reply HT, much appreciated!

As you turn harder the cuboid gets bigger.

Does this imply that reducing your G level below 1 will reduce the cuboid of doom? What happens if I fly through puffy ack at 0 Gs?

Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Slash27 on May 10, 2011, 10:28:46 PM
a) because it's just a virtual box around the target plane in which the random explosions appear, no actual projectiles flying through the air and thus no LOS calculations (yet?)

b) because explosions and shrapnel do not differentiate between friend or foe. You get hit, you get hurt. It's just disabled for manned guns for obvious reasons (human behaviour)
It sucks. Have it changed.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Lusche on May 10, 2011, 10:30:08 PM
It sucks. Have it changed.


Yes to the LOS thing, but no to a friendly fire damage change :)
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: icepac on May 11, 2011, 04:12:09 AM
The alternative to this ack is not ever getting hit.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: pervert on May 11, 2011, 07:38:10 AM
Why does puff ack follow you behind mountains and why does it kill friendly planes?

True this sucks! +1

The problem is puffy ack can end your flight when you are nowhere near the action or a danger to the CV, personally I have been leaving a fight on the CV and been a good bit away and the moment I pop over 3k been killed in the first burst.

Other pointless flak damage includes oil and rad hits when nowhere near the CV it just makes the game more annoying to play as the clock is ticking on your engine dying you have to re-up. I have had situations in the past were I have had 3 flights in a row were I had to bail due to flak damage without ever engaging an enemy, just seems like a waste of time.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Vinkman on May 11, 2011, 08:33:00 AM
I'm not sure I can because the above is fairly self evident but Ill try.

The system starts with a fixed dimension cuboid, and randomly creates flack bursts inside.
Your plane is positioned at the center of this cuboid.

As you fly faster that cuboid gets bigger.
As you fly father away the cuboid gets bigger.
As you turn harder the cuboid gets bigger.

There idea that a p51 gets target more is simply insane.
Here is the code that chooses a flacks target.
Note the bbs removed the i index after after the word CollideList


   for(i=0;i<Cnt;++i)
   {
      if(CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_BAD_GUY_OBJECT ||
         CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_USER_OBJECT ||
         CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_USER_DRONE ||
         CollideList->ObjectClass == obOC_WEAPON)
      {
         if(bgclntGetObjectModelType(CollideList) == 32)//Hack for sheep
            continue;

#ifndef syscfgAUTO_TESTING

         if(AutoGun->ParentObject->Country != CollideList->Country)
#endif
         {

            maSUB_POINTS(Vec,AutoPnt,CollideList->Pnt);
            if(fabs(Vec.y) < _MIN_FLAK_ALT)
            {
               continue;
            }

            DistSqr = maVEC_LENGTH_SQR(Vec);
            if(DistSqr < MinDistSqr)
            {
               MinDistSqr = DistSqr;
               NewTargetObject = CollideList;
            }
         }
      }
   }

HiTech

I don't write coode so forgive me trying to read this but, does this mean there is no minimum range for PuffY? i.e. it will shoot at you if you are 500yrds from the ship?  
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Slash27 on May 11, 2011, 01:41:24 PM
The alternative to this ack is not ever getting hit.
Gee what an option. Not being hit by my own ack and losing my 262???? Hhhmm
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: GNucks on May 11, 2011, 01:51:54 PM
I don't write coode so forgive me trying to read this but, does this mean there is no minimum range for PuffY? i.e. it will shoot at you if you are 500yrds from the ship?  

The minimum altitude for puffy is 3K, iirc. If I up to furball against a Naval mission I consider 3000 my ceiling. Puts me at a severe disadvantage if some wise guy decides to get alt on me but that's what makes it fun!  :)
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Lusche on May 11, 2011, 01:53:50 PM
Gee what an option. Not being hit by my own ack and losing my 262???? Hhhmm

You also have the same option real world pilots had: Step back and avoid flying into the own ack zone. Or push your attack and take the risk involved. In some way, it's even less risk, as the auto ack will never confuse you with the enemy and deliberately aim for your plane...
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: pervert on May 11, 2011, 05:39:45 PM
Yet again tonight a 25 minute sortie is decided by a random number generator many many miles from a CV complete waste of time, the reason I play this game is I want to compete against humans not some piece of code. If the whole idea is to protect a CV why have it insta kill me when I am no where near it??
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: The Fugitive on May 11, 2011, 06:00:24 PM
Yet again tonight a 25 minute sortie is decided by a random number generator many many miles from a CV complete waste of time, the reason I play this game is I want to compete against humans not some piece of code. If the whole idea is to protect a CV why have it insta kill me when I am no where near it??

If you spent less time "chatting" on 200 and more time maneuvering it would miss you more often!  :devil
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: kvuo75 on May 12, 2011, 08:26:15 AM
Yet again tonight a 25 minute sortie is decided by a random number generator


that's pretty much it. I wont even fly a fighter near (5 or 10 miles near) a cv anymore. I wouldn't even care getting killed by manned 5", but wandering momentarily above 3k and taking a hit from your own computer's randomly generated ack is annoying to say the least.  i've suggested before removing the auto-random puffy, but make the resulting 5" guns mannable. it's already essentially ineffective at killing threats to the cv's, so why is it even there? immersion? fine, keep the puffs, just make it do no damage.   
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Vinkman on May 12, 2011, 09:11:22 AM

that's pretty much it. I wont even fly a fighter near (5 or 10 miles near) a cv anymore. I wouldn't even care getting killed by manned 5", but wandering momentarily above 3k and taking a hit from your own computer's randomly generated ack is annoying to say the least.  i've suggested before removing the auto-random puffy, but make the resulting 5" guns mannable. it's already essentially ineffective at killing threats to the cv's, so why is it even there? immersion? fine, keep the puffs, just make it do no damage.   

I hate the auto Puffy AND the manned flak. Hyper zoom and proximity fuses make the gun too acurate and have resulted in the creation of an historically non-exsistant WWII soldier known as the "Aircraft Super Sniper." This A.S.S. can kill planes beyond con range, on pick off maneuvering fighters at thousands of yards. The A.S.S. creates a death circle around a CV that can change the tide of a battle. CV's can sail so close to a base that a single A.S.S. in a 5" gun can cap the base.

I know this is an attept to give the CV a fighting chance against Bombers and planes, but it ends up ruining every aerial CV launched plane battle.  They all devolve into the carrier planes swirling around a couple of thousand yards off the CV, and the A.S.S.(s) picking off all the land based planes that are trying to have a dog fight/furball. In the end a B-24 flys over and kills the CV to stop it, and the 5" were ineffective at preventing the bomber from sinking the CV...but I always thought that's why 5" flak guns were there.

The Flak Strategy on the CVs needs a re-think.  :salute
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: icepac on May 13, 2011, 02:18:09 AM
I doubt every single pilot knew where all the ack was in WWII.

"Walking on ack" was as random as it is here.

We've got it easy in comparison.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: SlapShot on May 13, 2011, 08:35:06 AM
I hate the auto Puffy AND the manned flak. Hyper zoom and proximity fuses make the gun too acurate and have resulted in the creation of an historically non-exsistant WWII soldier known as the "Aircraft Super Sniper." This A.S.S. can kill planes beyond con range, on pick off maneuvering fighters at thousands of yards. The A.S.S. creates a death circle around a CV that can change the tide of a battle. CV's can sail so close to a base that a single A.S.S. in a 5" gun can cap the base.

I know this is an attept to give the CV a fighting chance against Bombers and planes, but it ends up ruining every aerial CV launched plane battle.  They all devolve into the carrier planes swirling around a couple of thousand yards off the CV, and the A.S.S.(s) picking off all the land based planes that are trying to have a dog fight/furball. In the end a B-24 flys over and kills the CV to stop it, and the 5" were ineffective at preventing the bomber from sinking the CV...but I always thought that's why 5" flak guns were there.

The Flak Strategy on the CVs needs a re-think.  :salute

Looks as intense back in WWII as we see in game ...

(http://mysite.verizon.net/resttsdu/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/1945_04_11_1411_CL-65_Kamikaze_Splash_4x3_1200x.jpg)

Look at all the flack bursts in this picture (on the left edge of the picture) ...

(http://mysite.verizon.net/resttsdu/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/1945_04_11_1412_CV-9_CL-65_from_BB-57_PB_4x3_1200x.jpg)
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Vinkman on May 13, 2011, 02:49:23 PM
Looks as intense back in WWII as we see in game ...

(http://mysite.verizon.net/resttsdu/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/1945_04_11_1411_CL-65_Kamikaze_Splash_4x3_1200x.jpg)

Look at all the flack bursts in this picture (on the left edge of the picture) ...

(http://mysite.verizon.net/resttsdu/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/1945_04_11_1412_CV-9_CL-65_from_BB-57_PB_4x3_1200x.jpg)

Doesn;t look like a single gunner to me.  :D
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Wiley on May 13, 2011, 03:03:27 PM
...and people flew into that.  Every time I see that kind of pic it just staggers me to think of the amount of courage it'd take to voluntarily point an aircraft into the middle of a scene like that.

Nothing but respect for those guys...

I think it'd be nice if the puffy maybe required an LOS check at least.  Its performance at distance seems a bit suspect as well.  A lot of first barrage deaths occur at ridiculous altitude and distance from the carrier group.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: pervert on May 13, 2011, 03:08:10 PM
This is a combat simulator not ww2, if I find the time to log on I don't want to have every sortie cut short by some random roll of the dice by a piece of code, especially if I am nowhere near the CV. Why not throw together an offline mission were you get instantly owned by puffy ack, or get an oil hit or rad leak or pilot wound and have to rtb nearly every sortie and tell me how that works out for you, I'd like to know how long you'd keep playing that authentic WW2 experience??

Close to the CV yes, being instantly killed miles from the CV no thanks, in real life WW2 would ack even get a chance to fire with so many friendlys swarming around in front of its guns??

Its one of the big pointless things that happens in the game and in no way adds to the gameplay, its just annoying end of. It needs changed.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: icepac on May 13, 2011, 07:33:58 PM
OK...I change my mind about puffy ack.

While I was fighting a ME163, we passed over corner of the city strats 4 times carving all over the sky at near 400mph at 30,000 feet and I got hit all 4 times I passed close enough to city to cause puffy ack to start shooting.

Then my opponent gets awarded my kill even though I was behind him shooting the entire time.

He never once was in a firing position and was absorbing my bullets when ack blew me up.

It was never this accurate in WWII and I now believe something needs adjustment badly.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Slash27 on May 13, 2011, 09:19:58 PM
Pervert is saving me a lot of typing.  :salute
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: icepac on May 19, 2011, 10:01:58 PM
Can we have the puffy ack "box" get larger with altitude.

I just got hit at 39,000 feet going 400mph in a wide turn.......the first shell sent up blew off a wing.

I don't seem to remember seeing huge amounts of ack as picktured below at 39,000 feet.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Tk3997 on May 20, 2011, 05:59:46 AM
Puffy ack must not hate me nearly as much as you guys because I've only died to it a handful of times and I love me some CV action... I do agree it should check for LOS as that's common sense, and altitude isn't factored in it should be, and perhaps the targeting routine might also be adjusted to favor bombers more then fighters (as obvious threats to the CV/Start) but beyond that I don't mind it now. Flying into ack is a calculated risk as it should be, the puffy ack needs to be reasonably deadly to have any deterrent effect at all. It's not SUPPOSED to be safe to fly into, if you don't want to die too it stay low (the 3000 foot ceiling is already a huge concession, there's no real logical reason it couldn't be firing straight down to the deck like the manned guns) or avoid CVs. Otherwise suck it up, and besides it's not like puffy ack is the only thing in game that screws you with bad luck we've all been hit by some guy spraying an ostie all over the sky, or pinged once for a pilot wound at 1k, or had some guy turn directly into us with no chance to avoid a collision bad luck happens: deal with it; at least you get to respawn.  
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: pervert on May 20, 2011, 06:09:14 AM
Can we have the puffy ack "box" get larger with altitude.

I just got hit at 39,000 feet going 400mph in a wide turn.......the first shell sent up blew off a wing.

I don't seem to remember seeing huge amounts of ack as picktured below at 39,000 feet.

The CV gunners scan the sky with telescopes looking for the 40k guys, that'll teach you! Bet your glad you spent all that time getting to that alt to be shot down by a bit of code!  :old:
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: hitech on May 20, 2011, 09:46:03 AM
Can we have the puffy ack "box" get larger with altitude.

I just got hit at 39,000 feet going 400mph in a wide turn.......the first shell sent up blew off a wing.

I don't seem to remember seeing huge amounts of ack as picktured below at 39,000 feet.

It all ready does.

HiTech
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Scca on May 20, 2011, 10:25:50 AM
It all ready does.

HiTech
I think his point is maybe it should be bigger at that alt...
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Butcher on May 20, 2011, 08:46:06 PM
What I really hate is the fact puffy ack rarely gets bombers or dive bombers, the heavy dive bombers that is who always come in without getting hit, however a fighter doing 400 in a tight turn or S-split gets its wing blown off almost every time.

I did have it pepper me 4 times in one flight today, lucky me there wasn't damage other then big holes in the wings, however I did a test and ran Lancs at 10k over a CV and didn't get hit once, mean while that one fighter flight was at 18k doing 400mph.

Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: E25280 on May 20, 2011, 08:59:47 PM
I wont even fly a fighter near (5 or 10 miles near) a cv anymore.

it's already essentially ineffective at killing threats to the cv's, so why is it even there?
If it is keeping you from flying within 10 miles of the CV, for fear of being shot down, how can you possibly claim it isn't protecting the CV?
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: kvuo75 on May 21, 2011, 08:21:57 AM
If it is keeping you from flying within 10 miles of the CV, for fear of being shot down, how can you possibly claim it isn't protecting the CV?


yeah, it keeps harmless fighters away, but doesn't do too good a job of keeping away bombers that can actually kill it.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Lusche on May 21, 2011, 08:27:16 AM
If it is keeping you from flying within 10 miles of the CV, for fear of being shot down, how can you possibly claim it isn't protecting the CV?


I'm not afraid flying a bomber through CV puffy ack. I occasionally hear a hit register, but rarely get any serious damage from hit. The number of bombers I had actually lost to auto puffy is very small. Even when doing an attack run on the CV itself, it's only the manned 5" gunners who get me.
With fighters it's a totally different thing. I avoid even skipping the outer edge of puffy ack range at high altitudes. Too many sudden deaths...

Puffy hardly impresses any bomber pilot bound to attack a CV.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Beefcake on May 21, 2011, 08:51:55 AM
In the last 5 years or so I think puffy ack has killed 1 of my bombers, just one. Of course I've suffered some minor damage before but puffy ack just tickles my bombers most of the time. Now the last time I flew a fighter near a CV I died in the first burst.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: AWwrgwy on May 21, 2011, 12:55:50 PM
In the last 5 years or so I think puffy ack has killed 1 of my bombers, just one. Of course I've suffered some minor damage before but puffy ack just tickles my bombers most of the time. Now the last time I flew a fighter near a CV I died in the first burst.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that a bomber can take much more damage than a fighter. Hence the fact that "a little tickle" to a bomber is potentially something catastrophic to a fighter.

But no. That couldn't be. It's because fighters are the priority.

 :noid
 :rofl


wrongway
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Tigger29 on May 21, 2011, 01:37:08 PM
This is a combat simulator not ww2, if I find the time to log on I don't want to have every sortie cut short by some random roll of the dice by a piece of code, especially if I am nowhere near the CV. Why not throw together an offline mission were you get instantly owned by puffy ack, or get an oil hit or rad leak or pilot wound and have to rtb nearly every sortie and tell me how that works out for you, I'd like to know how long you'd keep playing that authentic WW2 experience??

Close to the CV yes, being instantly killed miles from the CV no thanks, in real life WW2 would ack even get a chance to fire with so many friendlys swarming around in front of its guns??

Its one of the big pointless things that happens in the game and in no way adds to the gameplay, its just annoying end of. It needs changed.

Are you serious?  I've been playing for 5 years now and I can count on one hand the number of times I've been critically damaged by the auto puffy ack.  Manned guns on the other hand is a different story altogether.  It's hardly enough to make me avoid flying over CV's, and I consider the thread of auto puffy ack to be minimal at most.

IRL there were dozens if not hundreds of people in a CV fleet pointing their guns at you and to expect even a fraction of skilled gunners to do the same in Aces High would be simply ridiculous.  I like how "AI" takes the place of most of the field guns and puffy acks because it retains a "realism" factor of the WWII experience without requiring as much manual player participation.

Planes on the other hand is a different story.  We have plenty enough people to play that role hence no need for AI pilots.  The existence of AI pilots I feel would ruin this game.. at least as far as main arena play is concerned.  HiTech obviously shares this opinion due to them dropping development of that aspect of gameplay a few years back.

All I see is "*WAAAHHH* I lost a 262 to auto ack so it should be removed".  Pleh.  Get real.  Don't like it, go fly in the dueling arena.  That's what it's there for.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: EagleDNY on May 21, 2011, 02:49:11 PM
I can't get enough puffy ack!  I want MORE!

HTC more realism!  Raise the limit to 3x the puffy ack we have now! 
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: pervert on May 21, 2011, 03:42:21 PM
Are you serious?  I've been playing for 5 years now and I can count on one hand the number of times I've been critically damaged by the auto puffy ack.  Manned guns on the other hand is a different story altogether.  It's hardly enough to make me avoid flying over CV's, and I consider the thread of auto puffy ack to be minimal at most.

Could be your style of gameplay I suppose? Hanging out with large numbers in puffy would certainly reduce your chances of getting hit often.

IRL there were dozens if not hundreds of people in a CV fleet pointing their guns at you and to expect even a fraction of skilled gunners to do the same in Aces High would be simply ridiculous.  I like how "AI" takes the place of most of the field guns and puffy acks because it retains a "realism" factor of the WWII experience without requiring as much manual player participation.

Excellant, few points though firstly we aren't in real life this is a game, by your realism argument the first time a player gets killed he should then cancel his account because he is dead? The situations of aerial combat beside a CV are also not real life, could you see gunners in real life shooting at an enemy plane that is engaged with a friendly? Let alone a sprawling furball. Perhaps someone could work out the figures and odds but hitting someone many many many miles away and at 20k with the first burst I really doubt, I think I read somewhere that these guns had 1 hit for every 1000 shells fired.

All I see is "*WAAAHHH* I lost a 262 to auto ack so it should be removed".  Pleh.  Get real.  Don't like it, go fly in the dueling arena.  That's what it's there for.

262s are not enabled in the DA, no one is asking for puffy to be removed just sorted out.
Title: Re: Question about puffy ack.
Post by: Slash27 on May 21, 2011, 05:35:36 PM


All I see is "*WAAAHHH* I lost a 262 to auto ack so it should be removed".  Pleh.  Get real.  Don't like it, go fly in the dueling arena.  That's what it's there for.
If you can't keep up with the conversation maybe you shouldn't participate?