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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: fwav8or on May 11, 2011, 02:52:20 PM

Title: Submarines???
Post by: fwav8or on May 11, 2011, 02:52:20 PM
Has anyone suggested submarines and u-boats for the naval aspect?  Might be neat.  :salute
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: LLogann on May 11, 2011, 02:56:31 PM
Nobody has ever suggested that sir.... Good thinking! 

+1

Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: gyrene81 on May 11, 2011, 03:00:56 PM
Nobody has ever suggested that sir.... Good thinking! 

+1
:rofl   :lol  only because search is off.  :lol

the subject has been broached and i believe the idea is on a "future project" list laying on hitech's desk.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: DemonFox on May 11, 2011, 05:28:15 PM
Submarines? What? Nnnnnoooo nnnevvveerr !  :lol
Get my X-Craft and go sink the Terpitz
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Dragon Tamer on May 11, 2011, 05:39:26 PM
If you add subs, you need a way of sinking them...
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: MachFly on May 11, 2011, 05:43:45 PM
:rofl   :lol  only because search is off.  :lol

It's back on  :banana:
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: olds442 on May 11, 2011, 05:44:00 PM
If you add subs, you need a way of sinking them...
i know where this is going... deapth charges for the B24   :banana:
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: MachFly on May 11, 2011, 05:45:01 PM
If you add subs, you need a way of sinking them...

Last I checked they were not bulletproof
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Dragon Tamer on May 11, 2011, 05:56:07 PM
i know where this is going... deapth charges for the B24   :banana:
That wasn't what I was thinking, I am just having a brain fart and can't remember the name of the ship you use to sink a sub.  But I like the idea  :aok

Last I checked they were not bulletproof

No, but water is.  Mythbusters proved that and the sub would only need to dive about 10 feet under to be safe from all rounds.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: gyrene81 on May 11, 2011, 06:03:18 PM
That wasn't what I was thinking, I am just having a brain fart and can't remember the name of the ship you use to sink a sub.  But I like the idea  :aok
destroyer for one...



No, but water is.  Mythbusters proved that and the sub would only need to dive about 10 feet under to be safe from all rounds.
water is not "bullet proof"...for that to happen there would have to be zero penetration. don't forget a 250lbs bomb can get deep enough to put a nice hole in your sub...especially if it has a delayed fuse.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: B-17 on May 11, 2011, 06:07:48 PM
Last I checked they were not bulletproof

lol, its true...

"Sir, there appears to a large number of pinholes appearing in the starboard side."

"...Your point, Ensign? What are you going to do about it?"

"...How many wine bottles do we have on board, sir?

"..."
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: MachFly on May 11, 2011, 06:33:53 PM
No, but water is.

Well if you'll stay 200ft (or what ever is the operations depth for a sub) under water all the time than you wont be a threat. When you surface you'll be an easy target.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Rino on May 11, 2011, 06:38:13 PM

     Destroyer escorts, sub chasers, corvettes, frigates, patrol boats...heck even our PTs could carry depth charges  :D
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: matt on May 11, 2011, 06:39:06 PM
 :aok
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Rino on May 11, 2011, 06:40:24 PM
Well if you'll stay 200ft (or what ever is the operations depth for a sub) under water all the time than you wont be a threat. When you surface you'll be an easy target.

     Anyone know what the maximum depth for launching a WW2 torp is?  I know they usually launched at periscope
depth for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Dragon Tamer on May 11, 2011, 06:46:30 PM
I don't think any were launched at a depth lower than that...

EDIT: There was a story I heard a while ago about a british sub I belive torpedoing a german sub while neither were at parascope depth.  The german sub had been damged by either an alied ship or plane (pretty sure it was a ship) it's engine was making a loud clunking sound and the british sub heard this on their hydrophones.  They did some brainiac calculations and came up with an approximate range.  They fired 4 torpedoes at the german sub but only the last one hit.  It was the only non-parascope sub kill (I belive the only sub to sub kill), and the last german U-boat sunk during the war.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: gyrene81 on May 11, 2011, 06:54:41 PM
could you imagine looking through the periscope drunk and not realizing you're looking in the wrong direction when you give the order to fire torpedo?  :rofl  :lol
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: matt on May 11, 2011, 07:40:31 PM
Rino, if your adding all the fixings to kill the sub why not add troops to sub
special ops frogman for base takes..if they did it in ww2 why not :joystick:

           
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: B-17 on May 11, 2011, 07:47:39 PM
Rino, if your adding all the fixings to kill the sub why not add troops to sub
special ops frogman for base takes..if they did it in ww2 why not :joystick:

           

oooh... i like that one :aok
and while were at it, why dont i rquest mini subs? :D :bolt:
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: AWwrgwy on May 11, 2011, 07:48:29 PM
    Anyone know what the maximum depth for launching a WW2 torp is?  I know they usually launched at periscope
depth for obvious reasons.

Torpedoes now are even launched at a relatively shallow depth. It's a matter of the amount of air pressure needed to launch the fish out of the tube at depth due to the water pressure.

Launching a torpedo at 200 feet or lower, while possible, would use much of a submarine's reserve air to do so as I understand it.

In regarts to WW2, torpedoes travelled in a straight line for the most part. No homing. I believe they could be programmed to make predetermined turns but were otherwise line of sight.



wrongway
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: B-17 on May 11, 2011, 07:50:18 PM
Torpedoes now are even launched at a relatively shallow depth. It's a matter of the amount of air pressure needed to launch the fish out of the tube at depth due to the water pressure.

Launching a torpedo at 200 feet or lower, while possible, would use much of a submarine's reserve air to do so as I understand it.

In regarts to WW2, torpedoes travelled in a straight line for the most part. No homing. I believe they could be programmed to make predetermined turns but were otherwise line of sight.



wrongway

yes, they needed compressed air to shot the torpedoes.
and i think they (the germans) experimented with magnetic torpedoes at some point, but didnt bother with them much, as they kept coming back to hit their own ships? correct me if im wrong.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: DemonFox on May 12, 2011, 07:02:17 AM
The Germans had passive Acoustic torpedos that followed noise. They had magnetic warheads that allowed torpedos to get below the hull of the ship then explodes breaking the back of the ship causing much more damage then a direct impact.

As for sinking the Subs I only have one thing to say....  :noid PBY-5A with depth charges!  :noid
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Dragon Tamer on May 12, 2011, 08:03:59 AM
The Germans had passive Acoustic torpedos that followed noise. They had magnetic warheads that allowed torpedos to get below the hull of the ship then explodes breaking the back of the ship causing much more damage then a direct impact.

Sucks if a whale got in the way, not only did you not hit your target, the enemy now knows where you are at.  :noid
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: alpini13 on May 12, 2011, 09:40:57 AM
GREAT STORY DRAGON TAMER,BUT NOT ONLY SUB TO SUB KILL,IF YOU WANT UBOAT INFO GO TO   U-BOAT NET,ONE OF THE BEST UBOAT SITES IVE SEEN
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: BowHTR on May 12, 2011, 09:53:30 AM
That wasn't what I was thinking, I am just having a brain fart and can't remember the name of the ship you use to sink a sub.  But I like the idea  :aok

No, but water is.  Mythbusters proved that and the sub would only need to dive about 10 feet under to be safe from all rounds.

Don't believe everything you see on Mythbusters. not all their information is correct. Such as their theory that you can shot and arrow from a bow and then shoot another arrow and have it take the nock off and go into the first arrow. That happens alot, more times than you could imagine.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Vudu15 on May 12, 2011, 12:38:17 PM
as to the water being "bulletproof" it depends on the angle and the size/speed of the round in question as to how deep it would go.
.303s may not go that deep but 20mms probably will.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: DemonFox on May 12, 2011, 12:43:12 PM
20mm are cannon rounds and would explode on impact to the water.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Wiley on May 12, 2011, 12:48:43 PM
Actually, that episode was fascinating to me because I was expecting the higher-velocity rounds to do better.  The .50 BMGs died out practically as fast as the other rifle rounds, which shocked me.  I figured a 700+ grain FMJ would go through more water.  Like demonfox says, cannon would explode on impact.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: M0nkey_Man on May 12, 2011, 02:49:00 PM
had a great grandpa who was a sub hunter in the pacific
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: SDGhalo on May 12, 2011, 04:09:19 PM
destroyer for one...


water is not "bullet proof"...for that to happen there would have to be zero penetration. don't forget a 250lbs bomb can get deep enough to put a nice hole in your sub...especially if it has a delayed fuse.

actually the ships that hunted u boats were called Corvettes
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: AAJagerX on May 12, 2011, 04:30:28 PM
Torpedoes now are even launched at a relatively shallow depth. It's a matter of the amount of air pressure needed to launch the fish out of the tube at depth due to the water pressure.

Launching a torpedo at 200 feet or lower, while possible, would use much of a submarine's reserve air to do so as I understand it.

In regarts to WW2, torpedoes travelled in a straight line for the most part. No homing. I believe they could be programmed to make predetermined turns but were otherwise line of sight.



wrongway

Modern subs flood their tubes pre-launch to equalize the pressure.  It doesn't take much reserve air to get one moving. 
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: gyrene81 on May 12, 2011, 05:40:28 PM
actually the ships that hunted u boats were called Corvettes
ok...so destroyers, destroyer escorts, sub chasers and frigates didn't hunt subs from 41-45.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 12, 2011, 06:43:17 PM
Mythbusters proved that and the sub would only need to dive about 10 feet under to be safe from all rounds.

It would not be safe 10ft underwater from a 57mm cannon round fired from a Mosquito FB Mk XVIII.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: AWRaid on May 12, 2011, 06:54:29 PM
Has anyone suggested submarines and u-boats for the naval aspect?  Might be neat.  :salute

I approve of this message and the 15,856 exactly like it.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: nikomon on May 12, 2011, 07:51:26 PM
+ 1 for Subs.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Rino on May 12, 2011, 10:06:58 PM
I don't think any were launched at a depth lower than that...

EDIT: There was a story I heard a while ago about a british sub I belive torpedoing a german sub while neither were at parascope depth.  The german sub had been damged by either an alied ship or plane (pretty sure it was a ship) it's engine was making a loud clunking sound and the british sub heard this on their hydrophones.  They did some brainiac calculations and came up with an approximate range.  They fired 4 torpedoes at the german sub but only the last one hit.  It was the only non-parascope sub kill (I belive the only sub to sub kill), and the last german U-boat sunk during the war.

     The military channel had a show about it...story of the U-684

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_eQG8umnl0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_eQG8umnl0)

     I know american subs sank japanese subs, but I believe they were surfaced at the time.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Rino on May 12, 2011, 10:16:23 PM
actually the ships that hunted u boats were called Corvettes

     They weren't the only class by a long shot.  Aside from the myriad of destroyer and patrol craft classes,
even these guys hunted U-boats  :D

     (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/USS_Palau_CVE-122_1950.jpg/800px-USS_Palau_CVE-122_1950.jpg)
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Rino on May 12, 2011, 10:21:37 PM
Modern subs flood their tubes pre-launch to equalize the pressure.  It doesn't take much reserve air to get one moving. 

     I seem to remember something about an ADCAP Mk 48...in fact here is some interesting wiki data...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_48_torpedo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_48_torpedo) 

     I also remember something about a "swim-out" torpedo that greatly lessens the launch transient to aid
in "stealth" attacks.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: SDGhalo on May 12, 2011, 11:49:23 PM
     They weren't the only class by a long shot.  Aside from the myriad of destroyer and patrol craft classes,
even these guys hunted U-boats  :D

     (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/USS_Palau_CVE-122_1950.jpg/800px-USS_Palau_CVE-122_1950.jpg)

i know they werent the only class hunting U boats, but at the beginning of the war and before the US entered roughly half of a convoys escorts were corvettes with a few destroyers to back them up in the convoy.

but your right that they werent the only ones. my mistake 
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: DemonFox on May 13, 2011, 06:54:57 AM
PBY-5A made a good sub hunter  :noid
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: iron650 on May 13, 2011, 02:57:25 PM
How about being able to launch corvettes, u-boats, and floatplanes from ports. That will make it more difficult to take a port. And they had a the u-boat and corvttes had deck guns should they work like 5 inch guns?  Also, u-boats also had anti-aircraft guns. +2 to the whole concept.  :aok
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Dragon Tamer on May 13, 2011, 03:23:03 PM
PBY-5A made a good sub hunter  :noid

Demon is very addoment about getting his PBY... don't think he's going to shut up until he does get it.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: B-17 on May 13, 2011, 04:08:16 PM
How about being able to launch corvettes, u-boats, and floatplanes from ports. That will make it more difficult to take a port. And they had a the u-boat and corvttes had deck guns should they work like 5 inch guns?  Also, u-boats also had anti-aircraft guns. +2 to the whole concept.  :aok

i think some had 2, though not both were used for AA. one on the conning tower--a flak gun (book doesnt say which) and one just in front of it--that one was 88mm, in the case of the type VII-C.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: icepac on May 13, 2011, 06:36:21 PM
Apparently one went missing tonight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZTUSDdsAtI
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: AWwrgwy on May 13, 2011, 06:53:38 PM
     They weren't the only class by a long shot.  Aside from the myriad of destroyer and patrol craft classes,
even these guys hunted U-boats  :D

     (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/USS_Palau_CVE-122_1950.jpg/800px-USS_Palau_CVE-122_1950.jpg)


Quote
Landing flaps lowered a Navy TBM lands aboard the USS Gaudalcanal (CVE-60), which has the U-boat 505 in tow. The escort carrier maintained flight operation for days despite the fact that it was towing the sub. (June 1944)

(http://images.wwiiarchives.net/images/photos/80-G-49174.jpg)

http://wwiiarchives.net/servlet/campaignGallery/34/20 (http://wwiiarchives.net/servlet/campaignGallery/34/20)

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq91-1.htm (http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq91-1.htm)

Go to Chicago. Tour the U-505.


wrongway
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: iron650 on May 13, 2011, 08:03:52 PM
could you imagine looking through the periscope drunk and not realizing you're looking in the wrong direction when you give the order to fire torpedo?  :rofl  :lol


A U-boat also had a backwards firing torpedo valve.
Title: Re: Submarines???
Post by: Penguin on May 14, 2011, 07:58:47 PM
If we're going to implement submarines, we need to do it right.  Look at Jane's Fleet Command, and you'll see just how complicated it is to balance submarines effectively.

-Penguin