Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: STEELE on May 13, 2011, 12:07:32 AM
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What makes the 110 worthy of a 10 ENY rating, when the 30 ENY Mossie is better in almost every way? Its faster, dives better, rolls better, zooms better, 4 deadly cannon that is the easiest to use gun package in the game (and 4 mg's with tons of ammo)
:headscratch:
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Good question
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ENY, as well as perks, are all based on game play use, not just by performance. In this respect, the 110G has a lower ENY value than the Mossie VI because the 110G sees more use in the game. Also, the 110G has superior guns and is highly effective in the Air to Ground role. If Mossies were much more commonly flown like the 110, we would probably see a lower ENY value on the aircraft.
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Armament? Versatility?
The 110G2 can still fight air to air quite effectively.
The problem is almost nobody can or bothers to fly
the G2 to its strengths. It'll rip anything in the air
apart with a good squeeze of the trigger, while the
mossi tends to need extra rounds on target.
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Armament? Versatility?
The 110G2 can still fight air to air quite effectively.
The problem is almost nobody can or bothers to fly
the G2 to its strengths. It'll rip anything in the air
apart with a good squeeze of the trigger, while the
mossi tends to need extra rounds on target.
So will the mossy, 4 20mm has to be enough to take out anything that's flying.
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ENY, as well as perks, are all based on game play use, not just by performance. In this respect, the 110G has a lower ENY value than the Mossie VI because the 110G sees more use in the game. Also, the 110G has superior guns and is highly effective in the Air to Ground role. If Mossies were much more commonly flown like the 110, we would probably see a lower ENY value on the aircraft.
I don't think ENY is bases on game use, look at the 109K for example, it's used almost as much as a pony and is capable of almost anything, the only major disadvantage it has is the gun.
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So will the mossy, 4 20mm has to be enough to take out anything that's flying.
I never said it wasn't enough, I said it tends to need more rounds
into a target than the G2's 30mm cannons.
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I never said it wasn't enough, I said it tends to need more rounds
into a target than the G2's 30mm cannons.
30mm round do have a greater stopping power however I think the rate of fire of the 20mm guns compensates for that. Yes the target will need more rounds but it is easier to hit the target with 20mms than 30mms.
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What makes the 110 worthy of a 10 ENY rating, when the 30 ENY Mossie is better in almost every way? Its faster, dives better, rolls better, zooms better, 4 deadly cannon that is the easiest to use gun package in the game (and 4 mg's with tons of ammo)
:headscratch:
Bf 110G-2: Kills: 4867 Deaths: 6748 K/D: 0.72
Mosquito Mk VI Kills: 3913 Deaths: 3692 K/D: 1.06
Bf110G-2's ENY seems like it is too low to me. By usage it should be lower than the Mossie, but not that much lower. Maybe a 20ish ENY. It does pack a lot more total destruction when employed against ground targets. Air-to-air does favor the Mossie though.
I don't think ENY is bases on game use, look at the 109K for example, it's used almost as much as a pony and is capable of almost anything, the only major disadvantage it has is the gun.
:headscratch:
P-51D: Kills: 28893 Deaths: 22683 K/D: 1.27
Bf 109K-4: Kills: 8238 Deaths: 6089 K/D: 1.35
Bf109K-4 doesn't come close to the P-51D's usage.
(all stats pulled from Late War Tour 135)
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:headscratch:
P-51D: Kills: 28893 Deaths: 22683 K/D: 1.27
Bf 109K-4: Kills: 8238 Deaths: 6089 K/D: 1.35
Bf109K-4 doesn't come close to the P-51D's usage.
(all stats pulled from Late War Tour 135)
Fine I used a bad example but the K4 does get used a lot.
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I don't think ENY is bases on game use, look at the 109K for example, it's used almost as much as a pony and is capable of almost anything, the only major disadvantage it has is the gun.
Lusche!! Chart needed.
Tour 135:
P-51D Kills-28893 Deaths-22683
109K4 Kills- 8238 Deaths- 6089
Hey, that's close(?) :huh
Bf 110G-2: Kills: 4867 Deaths: 6748 K/D: 0.72
Mosquito Mk VI Kills: 3913 Deaths: 3692 K/D: 1.06
Bf110G-2's ENY seems like it is too low to me. By usage it should be lower than the Mossie, but not that much lower. Maybe a 20ish ENY. It does pack a lot more total destruction when employed against ground targets. Air-to-air does favor the Mossie though.
:headscratch:
P-51D: Kills: 28893 Deaths: 22683 K/D: 1.27
Bf 109K-4: Kills: 8238 Deaths: 6089 K/D: 1.35
Bf109K-4 doesn't come close to the P-51D's usage.
(all stats pulled from Late War Tour 135)
110 is used as an attack aircraft against towns probably much more than it's Historical use as a bomber interceptor.
How many sorties are there where a 110G did not get a kill nor die?
wrongway
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Capability also matters in ENY. In Late War Tour 135 the Spitfire Mk XVI had 15573 kills, far less than the P-51D, yet it also has an ENY of 5. ENY is not primarily a control on popular aircraft, it is also intended to deny more potent aircraft to the side with numbers. From that perspective, the Bf110G-2 is a great base capturing tool and it could be that HTC is trying to deny use of that tool to over populated sides as a method of slowing them down.
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ENY is not primarily a control on popular aircraft,
In the case of the P-51D, it really really is. :-) The non-perked planes most similar to it, the D9, La7, F4u-1A, and Typhoon show an almost identical k/d tour to tour, in fact the D9's K/D is consistently significantly better. All these machines are similar, but the P-51D yields speed, climb (at typical MA alts) to the D9, as well as roll rate and hitting power, while having an advantage in maneuverability. To the La7 it yields both energy performance and maneuveribility. The Typhoon is basically just as fast and carries 4 Hispanos of death, and commonly betters the P-51 on k/d tour to tour. The F4U 1A is very nearly as fast, and more maneuverable in both turn and roll, showing disadvantage only in climb and acceleration. And it can operate off a carrier! The ONLY factor that can possibly singling the P-51D out for ENY 5 status is popularity. Currently there are only non-perked ENY 5 rides, the P-51D and the Spixteen, an odd situation IMO.
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well a 110G2 can take down 2 hangars and some other stuff. A mossie will struggle to kill a single one.
and IIRC is the only AH plane that can field 6 forward firing cannons.
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Or, BnZs, you can just hand wave away all of the strengths of the P-51D and pretend it totally sucks to try to sell your agenda.
Oh wait, that is exactly what you did.
The P-51D is one of the best tools in the game for taking territory. It is fast, carries a lot of ordnance, has long endurance, has guns that are easy to hit with, handles very smoothly at speed and has great cockpit views.
That isn't to say that the aircraft you listed don't also have nice capabilities as well, but to pretend the P-51D is completely overshadowed is silly. As a package deal it is very good.
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I only do ground attack when coming down from long bomber interception mission in the 110........maybe twice since I have been here but I will engage any fighter seen when letting down to land.
As far as mossie, I got into a long turn fight with one and the 110 was better but it is possible he had nearly full tanks to my nearly empty tanks when we met at 20k feet.
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What makes the 110 worthy of a 10 ENY rating, when the 30 ENY Mossie is better in almost every way? Its faster, dives better, rolls better, zooms better, 4 deadly cannon that is the easiest to use gun package in the game (and 4 mg's with tons of ammo)
:headscratch:
I agree, the difference in ENY seems too great but I disagree about the gun package being the easiest to use in the game. The 110 has equaly over-the-nose view available as the mosquito for a start. It also has 20mm and 30mm guns making it deadly at long and short range. At close range the mosquito can suffer in snapshots that do not disable anything vital, while a close range snapshot for the 30mm is ideal. Yep, mosquito with the hispano are extreme weapons and easy to use, but NOT the easiest.
Something like an F4u, or P47 has a far easier gun package to use. Point and squirt anywhere up to 1.1k with those banks of .50s. Any of the quad-20mm cannon planes are comparable, with most of them having the advantage of being a much smaller and more nimble aircraft than the mosquito.
That is the main reason for the mosquito to be high ENY. Change of survival is low. In the 110 it is also low, I acknowledge.
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I didn't say it was overshadowed or sucked. I say it is no worse and no better than similar LW rides. For every edge the P-51 has compared to them, it has a flaw. The ENY numbers do not reflect this sameness-5 ENY says the machine is uber enough to be a marginally perkable plane, which it ain't by a longshot.
Oh, and don't say "bomb truck" to me. First of all, I do not care. I have not strapped a bomb to a P51 or any fighter in recent memory, nor will I. I would rejoice if Hitech allowed me to strip the racks from my P-51 for 25 perks a ride and gain 5 mph. I would sign away my right to ever carry ord on a plane again for a half-price tour. I am sure I speak for a great number of pilots when I say I play this game to fly fighters against fighters 99% of the time. They deserve representation.
Much more importantly, the Typhoon at least is used as a mud mover and town destroyer on as great a percentage of its sorties as the Pony, if not greater, yet its k/d stays right up there.
The Dora also flies a surprising number of de-acking runs, cutting into its pristine k/d.
BTW, I purposely left the P-47M and Ta-152 out of this.
My only "agenda" is poking holes in inconsistent or hypocritical crap. Yes, right now the P-51D is my primary land plane. But we've had this argument for years, during previous periods where my primary ride was 190s or Jugs, planes whose major natural *enemy* in the MA is the P-51. The truth is the P-51D does not stick out from the LW pack in any respect except popularity. If ENY is going to be about popularity, let us admit it. I don't agree with such a policy, but I would at least like to see it openly admitted.
Not superior in performance. Not superior scoring machine, as is evidenced by k/d numbers. Not a superior dogfighter compared to the 1A or La7, and the point is debatable when compared to the Jugs. What is left to account for an ENY of 5 besides popularity?
Or, BnZs, you can just hand wave away all of the strengths of the P-51D and pretend it totally sucks to try to sell your agenda.
Oh wait, that is exactly what you did.
The P-51D is one of the best tools in the game for taking territory. It is fast, carries a lot of ordnance, has long endurance, has guns that are easy to hit with, handles very smoothly at speed and has great cockpit views.
That isn't to say that the aircraft you listed don't also have nice capabilities as well, but to pretend the P-51D is completely overshadowed is silly. As a package deal it is very good.
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Regarding ENY I think that it matters if the aircraft has alternative models: P-51D has high ENY B model. 110G has the C. LA7 has LA5 etc.
The mossie VI does not have the mossie II earlier fighter-bomber model. The bomber mossie cannot serve as an alternative to the VI as it is unarmed and perked.
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BnZs,
The fact that you don't care about bombs and rockets is precisely meaningless in this discussion, you are not the center of the universe. Any discussion of ENY must include all aspects of performance and capability. While I definitely agree that the P-51D gets additional use just because it is the P-51D, that alone cannot explain nearly twice the usage of of the runner up Spitfire Mk XVI, which also benefits from being a Spitfire like the P-51 benefits from being a Mustang. As an all around package the P-51D is very good and very effective in the game, to argue otherwise is absurd.
P-51D vs:
Typhoon: More ordnance, more maneuverable, more endurance, less firepower, slightly less acceleration
La-7: Much more ordnance, much greater range, easier to use guns, slower, less maneuverable, much less acceleration, less firepower
Fw190D-9: More ordnance, greater range, easier to use guns, more maneuverable, slower, less acceleration, slightly less firepower
Bf109K-4: More ordnance, greater range, much easier to use guns, better views, slower, much less acceleration, slightly less maneuverable, less firepower
F4U-1D: More range, better views, slightly better acceleration (if I recall correctly), faster, less maneuverable, not CV capable.
Yes, against them the P-51D has flaws, but the reverse is also true, against the P-51D they all have flaws as well.
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I only do ground attack when coming down from long bomber interception mission in the 110........maybe twice since I have been here but I will engage any fighter seen when letting down to land.
As far as mossie, I got into a long turn fight with one and the 110 was better but it is possible he had nearly full tanks to my nearly empty tanks when we met at 20k feet.
I believe the Bf110G-2 will out turn the Mosquito Mk VI. That is its only performance advantage until you get higher, then the Bf110G-2 will also out accelerate the Mosquito Mk VI.
Regarding ENY I think that it matters if the aircraft has alternative models: P-51D has high ENY B model. 110G has the C. LA7 has LA5 etc.
The mossie VI does not have the mossie II earlier fighter-bomber model. The bomber mossie cannot serve as an alternative to the VI as it is unarmed and perked.
One note, the Mk II was not a fighter-bomber. It did not have a bomb bay and I am not sure it could even take bombs under the wings. I had the older wing that had not been strengthened. When you see the Mosquito Mk II listed it is as a F.Mk II or NF.Mk II.
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True Karnak, but I always thought that F.II had the same bomb bay as the VI. The cannons block the front of it, but with the short fins bombs, two could be stored in the back. It is always the FB.VI that is mentioned in that regard so I do not know if F.II could/did carry them too. For the missions it was doing at the time the F.II didn't need bombs.
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Remember, the ENY was assigned PRIOR to the model update. :aok
With that being said, somewhere I have it drawn out just how much damage each can do and the 110G-2 can deliver over 7000 lbs of damage while the Mossi Mk VI is barely above 5000. When the 110G-2 takes 2/500kg bombs, 4/50kg bombs, the quad 20mm and dual 30mm the amount of damage is truly impressive.
The Mossi is faster, climbs better, turns better, accels better, etc, etc, but imo, when comparing these 2 aircraft you need to compare what their role is: and that is hammering ground targets. Vs OBJ the 110 wins, vs gv's the Mossi wins.
When HTC evaluates the ENY scores count on the Mossi FB Mk IV getting at least a 25 and maybe even a 20. Roll the dice. :)
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Remember, the ENY was assigned PRIOR to the model update.
The current value of 30 was assigned some time after the model update, it had been 25 before.
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. While I definitely agree that the P-51D gets additional use just because it is the P-51D, that alone cannot explain nearly twice the usage of of the runner up Spitfire Mk XVI, which also benefits from being a Spitfire like the P-51 benefits from being a Mustang.
I think it pretty much does. I think the glowing review written by Soda years ago when game conditions were different also has something to do with it.
There are not as many Spitfire worshippers as Mustang worshippers. The Millitary Channel does not declare the Spitfire the "Best plane of WWII" every other day, and Britain is a slightly less populous country than the United States.
Furthermore, the SpitXVI's usage is hurt by two very good contenders in its own family-The SpitVIII and the SpitIX. The only alternative to the P-51D is the B, whose four .50 cals just aren't very effective in most people's hands. Just look at Lusches stats page by airframe family:
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8973/fughterframeslw2010.jpg)
Spits are used as much as all the P-51s and all the P-47s *combined*!
If the Spit family were similarly limited, to the XVI and the V say, you could watch SpitXVI usage meet or exceed that of the P-51D.
I never once said the P-51D was a bad airplane in the MA. What I said was the performance and k/d numbers don't bear out the idea that it is superior to other LWMA planes in its class, yet it is currently one of only two unperked planes carrying an ENY 5.
As an all around package the P-51D is very good and very effective in the game, to argue otherwise is absurd.
P-51D vs:
Typhoon: More ordnance, more maneuverable, more endurance, less firepower, slightly less acceleration
La-7: Much more ordnance, much greater range, easier to use guns, slower, less maneuverable, much less acceleration, less firepower
Fw190D-9: More ordnance, greater range, easier to use guns, more maneuverable, slower, less acceleration, slightly less firepower
Bf109K-4: More ordnance, greater range, much easier to use guns, better views, slower, much less acceleration, slightly less maneuverable, less firepower
F4U-1D: More range, better views, slightly better acceleration (if I recall correctly), faster, less maneuverable, not CV capable.
Yes, against them the P-51D has flaws, but the reverse is also true, against the P-51D they all have flaws as well.
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The mossie can do 355mph on the deck: same as the b-stang, la-5, f4u1 series, 109g14. Pretty dang fast! If it has a little alt advantage at the start, it will take forever to catch it even in an La7. Which rides are faster than the mossie (on the deck)? 190d and 152 (the mossie easily outturns them), typhoon, p51d, M-jug (pretty much the same tale), the only real dangerous rides are the la7 and the 109K, plus the spit14, the 4-hog and the temp, but they are perked. Its gun package is all about your taste, for me the hispanos are easyer to aim than the taters. Trur, the tater is one-ping-one-kill-no-luck-just-skill, but a 0.5 secs burst can still kill anything with those quad hizookas. In my opinion its 30 ENY is the same joke as the k-4s 20.
The 110 only can do 322mph. Almost everyone can catch it. Its rear gun is worthless, but its a real good turner s long as it has speed to burn. Its gun package is insane, one ping will kill anything, and has a chitload of ammunition. It cant carry as much bombload, but has air to air rockets, what is soo effective against bomber formations.
IMO they should have the same eny value whatever it would be. They all have advantages and disadvantages against each other, mostly depends on the role and the pilot what will be more successfun. But its much easyer to survive in the mossie.
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The current value of 30 was assigned some time after the model update, it had been 25 before.
Go double check the date of when 30 was assigned. I'll bet ya it was PRIOR to the new model being implemented. It wasnt too long before, but I am quite positive the update happened AFTER the 30 ENY was assigned.
EDIT: Version 2.19 is when the Mossi FB Mk IV was updated. There is a gap between the archives and what we can access on the main page. However, I do remember reading in the changelog when the ENY was adjusted. Based on that, I'd likbwhat we are ae to believe that the ENY adjustement happened PRIOR to the model update. Want to place any bets??? :D
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Very cool chart, Lusche. I think if you did one for 2011 the La would have a much bigger piece of the pie. The old mossie was for sure a 30 ENY job, the new one is probably 20
at worst. The p51D should be same as p47m ENY IMO.
Yes the 110g heavy gun package can bust buildings faster than any other, but with the small gun package it should be 20 ENY, and when ENY goes above 10, maybe disable the
town hording gun pack. Or split the difference and make it 15?
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The Mossie VI's usage barely budged when it was redone, despite gaining considerably in capability.
Splitting the ENY for gun packages would be nice and could be applied elsewhere as well, but I don't know that the game is currently capable of doing that. Interfacewise it might be a bit confusing as well.
BnZs,
Your graph is out of date. Last tour the P-51D got 28,893 kills, the Spitfire Mk XVI got 15,573 kills. All P-51s got 32,587 kills, all Spitfires, Seafire included, got 35,195 kills. The ratio has been moving steadily towards the P-51's favor for some time and I don't think that movement is without reason.
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THe ENY debate will forever rage, no doubt. Until players can look at the BIG picture of an aircraft they wont understand why it has the ENY value it does.
The P51D is one of the most capable aircraft in the game. It is one of the fastest at all alts; it can turn (w flaps); has vrey capable firepower; can carry 2/1k bombs and 6/5in rockets (almost 3k worth of ord!); can roll well at all alts and speeds; and is very stable, etc.
Take all of the aircraft with a 10 ENY and higher, the only one that can do it all is the P51D.
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IMO they should have the same eny value whatever it would be. They all have advantages and disadvantages against each other, mostly depends on the role and the pilot what will be more successfun. But its much easyer to survive in the mossie.
I think it is something like the Mosquito Mk VI is the poor man's Bf110G-2 in AH "win the war" terms. The Mosquito Mk VI is one of the aircraft you are supposed to be able to fall back on when you become ENY limited and lose the Bf110G-2.
To those of us who focus on air-to-air this seems silly as the Mosquito Mk VI is more capable than the Bf110G-2 in the air-to-air role, but I think the focus on both of them in ENY terms is on a "win the war" basis, and for that the Bf110G-2 is superior. The problem with ranking either of them in air-to-air terms is that almost any high end fighter will, with relative ease, have its way with the big twin.
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So will the mossy, 4 20mm has to be enough to take out anything that's flying.
I agree, though the difference can be seen in the Air to Ground role especially. It takes next t no time to Knock a VH down with a 110 on a strafing run, yet when I do the same type of run in a Mossy it can take at least 2 passes. I think in the Air both are deadly though as I can cut a plane in half with almost no prob in either one.
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I think it is something like the Mosquito Mk VI is the poor man's Bf110G-2 in AH "win the war" terms. The Mosquito Mk VI is one of the aircraft you are supposed to be able to fall back on when you become ENY limited and lose the Bf110G-2.
To those of us who focus on air-to-air this seems silly as the Mosquito Mk VI is more capable than the Bf110G-2 in the air-to-air role, but I think the focus on both of them in ENY terms is on a "win the war" basis, and for that the Bf110G-2 is superior. The problem with ranking either of them in air-to-air terms is that almost any high end fighter will, with relative ease, have its way with the big twin.
I dont think so. Just compare the pony and the jug, the jug is more capable when its about to win the war (500lbs more bombs, +4 rockets, unlimited ammo). Generally, as a fighter, the pony is better than the D-jug, and it appearsin its eny value.
Btw i seen Bruv land 10+ kills in a mossie. Why? Couse it can dive like crazy, fast, still has tons of ammo, and has better guns than the tempest. Ok, Bruv is good and that was a BnZ fest he did it, but im sure even he wouldnt get 10+ in any other 30eny ride except the d11 jug.
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I dont think so. Just compare the pony and the jug, the jug is more capable when its about to win the war (500lbs more bombs, +4 rockets, unlimited ammo). Generally, as a fighter, the pony is better than the D-jug, and it appearsin its eny value.
Btw i seen Bruv land 10+ kills in a mossie. Why? Couse it can dive like crazy, fast, still has tons of ammo, and has better guns than the tempest. Ok, Bruv is good and that was a BnZ fest he did it, but im sure even he wouldnt get 10+ in any other 30eny ride except the d11 jug.
I'm not disputing that the Mosquito is better for air-to-air. I am suggesting that HTC may be evaluating both the Mosquito and Bf110G in terms of attack capability. The P-51D and P-47N you mention as comparison don't match that as they are real fighters, not the half and half Fighter-Bombers that the Mosquito and Bf110G-2 are.
Keep in mind that the Bf110G-2 gets used about 33% more than the Mosquito does, in terms of kills and deaths. There is a reason for it. Should it be 10 ENY? Well, either it is too low or HTC wants to limit such an effective attack platform. I'd tend to guess the former, but the latter could be part of it.
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I recall awhile back the 110G2 had an ENY of 20 or 25.
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I was just witness to a conversation on vox in the MA regarding how ENY is assigned... the number of theories I heard probably rivals the number of ways HTC could actually employ a formula.
I think it is safe enough to say that there is no set formula. There may be a starting point in which all the basic attributes are measured and then a value is assigned, but the end result is not as concrete.
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I'm not disputing that the Mosquito is better for air-to-air. <snip>
Keep in mind that the Bf110G-2 gets used about 33% more than the Mosquito does, in terms of kills and deaths. There is a reason for it. Should it be 10 ENY? Well, either it is too low or HTC wants to limit such an effective attack platform. I'd tend to guess the former, but the latter could be part of it.
I think both the former and the latter. Yes, the 110 is probably the best NOE base roller,
but it would be nice to get some substantial perks for air-to-air kills, as we do in the Mossie.
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Maybe a sub-model that doesn't have the 30s could be perked less?
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Maybe a sub-model that doesn't have the 30s could be perked less?
I was thinking when ENY gets over 10, the extra 2 20mils could be disabled, then it would still be good for air to air, but less effective for ground pounding.
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I was thinking when ENY gets over 10, the extra 2 20mils could be disabled, then it would still be good for air to air, but less effective for ground pounding.
Tie me to a pole and light me on fire if not, but I dont think there was ever a variant in which the Mossi ever had only two 20mm.
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Tie me to a pole and light me on fire if not, but I dont think there was ever a variant in which the Mossi ever had only two 20mm.
He is talking about the Bf110G-2.
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How about a perked Mossie VI in which you leave the 303 at home and kick out the navigator with his equipment. Easily loosing 500 lbs there.
;)
J/K, I will never throw out my navigator. I cannot mix the cocktails, play the bagpipe and fly the plane at the same time by myself. My navigator/butler makes the best inflight cocktails in the RAF (also called cockpitales). Lousy bagpipe player though.
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How about a perked Mossie VI in which you leave the 303 at home and kick out the navigator with his equipment. Easily loosing 500 lbs there.
;)
J/K, I will never throw out my navigator. I cannot mix the cocktails, play the bagpipe and fly the plane at the same time by myself. My navigator/butler makes the best inflight cocktails in the RAF (also called cockpitales). Lousy bagpipe player though.
Have you seen the Mossie VI's numbers on 150 octane?
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Have you seen the Mossie VI's numbers on 150 octane?
No, it was flying past so fast I couldn't read them.
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Maybe adjust perk values depending on what kind of ordnance/gun package/fuel is taken? Would work a bit like the russian roulette... except HTC would have to decide the ENY values for every different weapon permutations possible. For the 110G2 that would be a lot just for one plane. That would be the only way to make some people on this tread happy. Otherwise, there ain't much we can do about it.
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People love the one's they fly the most & have loyalties to their choice. I love them both, The Mossie is more forgiving to fly, but I get more kills landed in a 110(Love those air to air rkts). If I get shot in a Mossie (Wood Laminates) I watch my plane fly apart, even .50 calibers tear it up easily, IMO. I actually bomb**** in the Mossie more than the 110, & use the 110 killin' bombers or close work around a field so if it gets thick I can run to ak. I usually get a few ftr kills.
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Our Mossie is actually pretty tough. It goes along with the pics of WW2 Mossies that made it home with giant holes in the rear fuselage, or the tails all shot up. The 110 is decently tough, but the Mossie seems to take cannon rounds better.
People love the one's they fly the most & have loyalties to their choice. I love them both, The Mossie is more forgiving to fly, but I get more kills landed in a 110(Love those air to air rkts). If I get shot in a Mossie (Wood Laminates) I watch my plane fly apart, even .50 calibers tear it up easily, IMO. I actually bomb**** in the Mossie more than the 110, & use the 110 killin' bombers or close work around a field so if it gets thick I can run to ak. I usually get a few ftr kills.
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I don't see an ENY of 5 for the P-51D we have in the game. It is a bit tame it's performance it is the early version of the D pony. I would rather see it pushed up to the 1945 level and perked. The P-51D served in the Korean war and shoot down MiG-15s and did ground attack in Vietnam with the Republic of Vietnam forces.
It served the Air National Guard into the early 1960s and was in service in Central America until 1989 and still wins Air races all over the world. There is a reason for it. No other prop fighter from WWII can say the same except the ME-109s they saw service with Spain into the 1960s with a British made motor. I want one of the super P-51s I saw on Dog fight lol.
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Our Mossie is actually pretty tough. It goes along with the pics of WW2 Mossies that made it home with giant holes in the rear fuselage, or the tails all shot up. The 110 is decently tough, but the Mossie seems to take cannon rounds better.
I'm no historian or objective analyzer, I just know it falls apart more quickly that other twins I fly, "In Game". Just my experience.
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I'm no historian or objective analyzer, I just know it falls apart more quickly that other twins I fly, "In Game". Just my experience.
The Mosquito is tougher than the Bf110. Wood took damage better than aluminum and it is modeled in AH as being tougher.
Example, it takes two Hispano hits to the tail cone to take off a Bf110's tail, three to take off a Mosquito Mk VI's tail.
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Then I ain't flyin' it right. :rofl :bolt:
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Our Mossie is actually pretty tough. It goes along with the pics of WW2 Mossies that made it home with giant holes in the rear fuselage, or the tails all shot up.
That's because you do not see the planes that didn't made it back...
But true, wood had several advantages when taking damage. Must be hilarious when you bring back a smashed mosquito and a team of carpenters and piano builders show up and start sawing hammering and gluing :) I read about a pilot that saw the wing of his mosquito being sawed off, fixed and attached back again with glue and nails. He refused to fly it again, but someone else did and the plane kept flying for the rest of the war.
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Heard that tale too - USAAF Mossie IIRC.
When 23 Squadron was on Malta, they had a local coffin-maker round to do some of the woodwork.
Pilots joked they were watching for him to put brass handles on someone's fuselage...
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Why the Mossie VI is ENY 30:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0McNgWA59g
This raid got spotted some distance away, giving us time to up (I was actually outbound to another area from the field and doubled back hence my alt when entering). We where still way outnumbered, but It pretty much turned into a total slaughter as the entire raid was killed in under four minutes and we lost maybe two or three guys, they didn't even touch the town and almost nothing on the field was destroyed.
Because people have no idea how to use it.
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Why the Mossie VI is ENY 30:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0McNgWA59g
Because people have no idea how to use it.
I have seen the same done with a pony raid (pony is ENY5). The same slaughter happened, and i got 34 perks that sortie (yup, i LUV the vSQUAD). Its not about the planes, its about their handlers ;)
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Yeah, unless its a whole squad raid (a good one :cool:), usually we can expect raids to have most of the pilots not know how to fly the main ride for it in any effective way.
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LOL! I just hope there was no kids within earshot to hear the colorful narration. :devil
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I have seen the same done with a pony raid (pony is ENY5). The same slaughter happened, and i got 34 perks that sortie (yup, i LUV the vSQUAD). Its not about the planes, its about their handlers ;)
Oh, in the hands of a group of players who knew how to use it those Mossies would have done very much better. I wasn't maligning the aircraft, but rather pointing out how most people see it. Because they see it like that, they don't use it much. There was literally no difference in the result of that raid as compared to what a nape of the earth, unescorted Bf110G-2 would experience.
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I find deacking is much easier with the cannons on the 110
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I find deacking is much easier with the cannons on the 110
Bigger splash radius on the 30mm makes accuracy less important.