Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: icepac on May 13, 2011, 11:07:46 PM
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I dove on a guy who ran from 30k to his field, fired on him, and lifted to pass over his shot up plane when he pulled up sharply and put his canopy right into my prop.
We collide, I die instantly, and he safely lands.
What determines who dies?
Is it a function of which plane is in front of the other.....however small the margin?
Does being charged with "causing the collision" magically repair the 20 cannon rounds just put into the person you collided with?
I want to adjust so this does not happen again but I need to know how this works to do so.
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Basically if your nose hits his plane u take damage, vice versa.
If your head to head it's the same, but lag may have an issue
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As it has been explained to me by many elite pilets, collision modelling works like this: you will always, always, lose the collision. Your enemy however, will always, always, win the collision. Why is that so hard to understand?
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I wish search was working. It seems to only give things from ten years ago'
There are two collision messages, SoAndSo has collided with you and the white, You have collided.
If you understand how a collision works, your front end, his front end, ect. then I can skip that part.
If you saw the white message, you hit him. If you saw the orange message, he hit you. If you saw both you each hit each other.
Damage also depends on what part of your or his plane hit what. Prop, tail, cockpit.
It is my belief that many of the "deaths" where a head on collision occurs is due to a HO shot as much, if not more, than the collision itself.
More than likely you only saw the white message and hit something important, like your head, or, when he pulled up, you were far enough ahead on his front end that he just shot you.
edit: collision "discussion"
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,206839.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,206839.0.html)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,253487.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,253487.0.html)
wrongway
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Basically, due to unavoidable internet lag and the speeds at which WWII aircraft move, your relative positions can be dozens of yards apart on each Front End. So, Guy A can see a guy dive behind him, 100 yard back on his FE, while Guy B sees himself fly through Guy A's airplane on Guy B's FE. Now, Guy B rammed Guy A, but Guy A had no way of telling that he was going to get rammed and thus had no opportunity to avoid the damage, thus only Guy A, on who's FE the collision happened and thus had potential access to the data needed to avoid the collision, takes damage.
Sometimes people respond by saying "Well, then neither should take damage.", but that distorts the air-to-air combat tactics by making it a good idea to fly right through the enemy aircraft, firing from insanely close ranges. I won't miss that B-17 I am diving on at 500mph when I fly through it, whereas the B-17 gunner sees me dive 50 yards behind him, making his target much harder.
Basic choices are:
Both take damage. This leads to ramming being a viable tactic and being very hard to avoid as the player on who's FE the collision does not occur is not able to see that the collision is about to happen.
Only the player on who's FE the collision occurred takes damage. What we have in AH, intentional ramming is very hard and the player who could potentially have had access to the data to avoid it takes the damage.
Neither take damage. Leads to people flying through other aircraft, guns blazing, lack of concern about collisions being a pretty big distortion of air-to-air tactics.
Only the player on who's FE the collision did not occur takes damage. Rammer's wet dream as only the player could not have potentially had access to the data about the collision takes damage, rammer gets to ram over and over and over. Insane and obviously not a good idea.
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Trust me on this one. Just wait for search to get fixed...
Coogan
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I dove on a guy who ran from 30k to his field, fired on him, and lifted to pass over his shot up plane when he pulled up sharply and put his canopy right into my prop.
We collide, I die instantly, and he safely lands.
What determines who dies?
Is it a function of which plane is in front of the other.....however small the margin?
Does being charged with "causing the collision" magically repair the 20 cannon rounds just put into the person you collided with?
I want to adjust so this does not happen again but I need to know how this works to do so.
icepack this one has been discussed to death. basically it comes down to this, some of us will always die in a collision and the other plane takes to damage. just like warhed explained it. you are more likely to understand women than how the collision works. trust me on this one just keep on yelling at your screen like I do.
semp
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icepack this one has been discussed to death. basically it comes down to this, some of us will always die in a collision and the other plane takes to damage. just like warhed explained it. you are more likely to understand women than how the collision works. trust me on this one just keep on yelling at your screen like I do.
semp
This is roadkill.
It is easy as pie to understand unless you willfully resist understanding.
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Here is the simple answer, don't fly so close to the enemy plane, and you won't collide.
Only you can prevent collisions.
Granted once in a great while it will happen, but not all that often.
When in doubt, most people will pull "up" so be ready for it. Fly slightly off to the side, be prepared to go right/left to avoid him.
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I dove on a guy who ran from 30k to his field, fired on him, and lifted to pass over his shot up plane when he pulled up sharply and put his canopy right into my prop.
We collide, I die instantly, and he safely lands.
What determines who dies?
Is it a function of which plane is in front of the other.....however small the margin?
Does being charged with "causing the collision" magically repair the 20 cannon rounds just put into the person you collided with?
I want to adjust so this does not happen again but I need to know how this works to do so.
This is easy DON'T COLLIDE and you WON'T DIE from it!
Thats how it works PERIOD! In the case you mentioned YOU collided, he may have only seen the bullet damage as he pulled up to avoid your vert move from under his plane. From his point of view he DIDN'T collide.
icepack this one has been discussed to death. basically it comes down to this, some of us will always die in a collision and the other plane takes to damage. just like warhed explained it. you are more likely to understand women than how the collision works. trust me on this one just keep on yelling at your screen like I do.
semp
Again you post your lack of knowledge. As Karnak said some people refuse to learn and understand how things work.
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One sentence answer:
On your screen, if your plane hits his you take damage.
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If you are out of ammo or skilled/lucky, you can actually kill a bomber/afk/con by flying really fast right in front of them and that will make him collide with you and you will remain intact if you didn't touch the object. :devil
That's the best way I have to explain the collision behavior of this game (which is fine by me).
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This is easy DON'T COLLIDE and you WON'T DIE from it!
Thats how it works PERIOD! In the case you mentioned YOU collided, he may have only seen the bullet damage as he pulled up to avoid your vert move from under his plane. From his point of view he DIDN'T collide.
Again you post your lack of knowledge. As Karnak said some people refuse to learn and understand how things work.
This would make a good cartoon :D
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Here is an example of a spit colliding with me resulting in his own destruction at 2:35 in THIS FILM (http://www.mediafire.com/?tawzfixt90c28rv). In HIS view on HIS computer, he must have seen my familly photo in my cockpit.
EDIT:
I remember in old FPS games like battlefield 1942 of battlefield vietnam, we had to shoot planes (or infantry/vehicles) in front of their actual position because that was where they actually were! So we just shot at a blank spot in front of them. I remember helicopter duel tournaments in Battlefield vietnam where I had 200ms latency and competitors had 60ms latency... it really was a difference.
I remember trying to snipe people with 1second latency on my old 56k. Now THAT was fun... not :bhead
In AH its the same thing but roles are reversed and its more realistic. Your bullets damage parts were they land and you collide on objects you hit YOURSELF!
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This is easy DON'T COLLIDE and you WON'T DIE from it!
Thats how it works PERIOD! In the case you mentioned YOU collided, he may have only seen the bullet damage as he pulled up to avoid your vert move from under his plane. From his point of view he DIDN'T collide.
Again you post your lack of knowledge. As Karnak said some people refuse to learn and understand how things work.
I didn't pull the "vert move" from below.
Picture a vulch scenario except that my victim had no intention to land but rather flew at 100 feet across the base at high speed with me closing fast from above, making the gunnery pass, and pulling up slightly to pass 100 feet above him.
He pulled up as I passed over putting his canopy into my prop.
Since my original post states my victim pulling up and putting his canopy into my prop, how did you deduce that I pulled a vert move from below?
Please reference the scenario as posted and refrain from creating a scenario which differs from the one posted to make a point that does not apply.
Now my understanding is that, in a tail chase scenario with collision, the person who's plane is in front by even the smallest margin "wins" the collision.
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I wish search was working. It seems to only give things from ten years ago'
There are two collision messages, SoAndSo has collided with you and the white, You have collided.
If you understand how a collision works, your front end, his front end, ect. then I can skip that part.
If you saw the white message, you hit him. If you saw the orange message, he hit you. If you saw both you each hit each other.
Damage also depends on what part of your or his plane hit what. Prop, tail, cockpit.
It is my belief that many of the "deaths" where a head on collision occurs is due to a HO shot as much, if not more, than the collision itself.
More than likely you only saw the white message and hit something important, like your head, or, when he pulled up, you were far enough ahead on his front end that he just shot you.
edit: collision "discussion"
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,206839.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,206839.0.html)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,253487.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,253487.0.html)
wrongway
You mixed it up. The orange message is "You have collided", white message is "soandso has collided with you"
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He pulled up as I passed over putting his canopy into my prop.
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Basically, he didn't collide from his point of view. He pulled up and totally missed your plane. Due to internet lag, your computer sees moving objects behind where they really are, as does his, so he didn't make contact on his screen.
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You mixed it up. The orange message is "You have collided", white message is "soandso has collided with you"
Figures. I had a 50/50 shot. :D
I didn't pull the "vert move" from below.
Picture a vulch scenario except that my victim had no intention to land but rather flew at 100 feet across the base at high speed with me closing fast from above, making the gunnery pass, and pulling up slightly to pass 100 feet above him.
He pulled up as I passed over putting his canopy into my prop.
Since my original post states my victim pulling up and putting his canopy into my prop, how did you deduce that I pulled a vert move from below?
Please reference the scenario as posted and refrain from creating a scenario which differs from the one posted to make a point that does not apply.
That said, I my understanding is that, in a tail chase scenario with collision, the person who's plane is in front by even the smallest margin "wins" the collision.
On your front end, your prop hit his canopy. On his front end, you probably ended up right in front of him a 0 range.
You not only took collision damage but quite possibly got shot at point blank range to boot.
Did you just explode and end up in the tower?
wrongway
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I didn't pull the "vert move" from below.
Picture a vulch scenario except that my victim had no intention to land but rather flew at 100 feet across the base at high speed with me closing fast from above, making the gunnery pass, and pulling up slightly to pass 100 feet above him.
He pulled up as I passed over putting his canopy into my prop.
Since my original post states my victim pulling up and putting his canopy into my prop, how did you deduce that I pulled a vert move from below?
Please reference the scenario as posted and refrain from creating a scenario which differs from the one posted to make a point that does not apply.
That said, I my understanding is that, in a tail chase scenario with collision, the person who's plane is in front by even the smallest margin "wins" the collision.
Thats the point, with lag, to him you my have been 20 feet away and dipping below him as he went vertical to avoid you.
The person who "wins" the collision is the one who DIDN'T collide
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I got the message that he collided with me.
Then I augered in missing parts of my plane.
I understand lag perfectly.....well enough to author a thread on the "anticipatory smoothing code", how to identify what you just saw, and how to exploit lag whether offensively or defensively from most any possible scenario you might find yourself in these arenas.
Regardless of lag, your front end reports to the server your version of reality, compares it to the other person's front end version of reality, and makes a decision based on control inputs and plane position.
It is clear my question has been answered but most were the wrong answer with a couple of correct answers.
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Regardless of lag, your front end reports to the server your version of reality, compares it to the other person's front end version of reality, and makes a decision based on control inputs and plane position.
And this statement will create a lot of incorrect assumptions again.
To clarify: The server plays no role in collisions. He doesn't compare anything, and no decisions are made. The server just relays the data and, of course, records the outcome. All collision determination and damage calculation is done on each player's FE only.
It is determined on my computer only if I am part of a collision, and if yes, which damage I take from it. Same goes for the other player. Nothing will be "compared" in any way.
And if you don't have a collision on your screen, you do not take any damage from it. Any missing parts are a result of enemy bullets striking you.
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semp, my brother, you missed my sarcasm :neener:
The only thing wrong with AH Collisions in my opinion is losing things like oil or ailerons from head on collsions or other impossible scenarios.
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And this statement will create a lot of incorrect assumptions again.
To clarify: The server plays no role in collisions. He doesn't compare anything, and no decisions are made. The server just relays the data and, of course, records the outcome. All collision determination and damage calculation is done on each player's FE only.
It is determined on my computer only if I am part of a collision, and if yes, which damage I take from it. Same goes for the other player. Nothing will be "compared" in any way.
And if you don't have a collision on your screen, you do not take any damage from it. Any missing parts are a result of enemy bullets striking you.
So....if my front end records a collision and the other person's does not, am I the only one colliding?
Crazy.
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So....if my front end records a collision and the other person's does not, am I the only one colliding?
Exactly. This is all the collision model is about :old:
(Of course it's also the same the other way around: if there's no collision on your front end, your enemy can collide/ram as much as he likes... only he will get damage from it, not you)
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put up the pictures again Lusche :D
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I wonder why the Muppet Collision Flowchart hasn't been posted already...
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So....if my front end records a collision and the other person's does not, am I the only one colliding?
Crazy.
Both take damage. This leads to ramming being a viable tactic and being very hard to avoid as the player on who's FE the collision does not occur is not able to see that the collision is about to happen.
Only the player on who's FE the collision occurred takes damage. What we have in AH, intentional ramming is very hard and the player who could potentially have had access to the data to avoid it takes the damage.
Neither take damage. Leads to people flying through other aircraft, guns blazing, lack of concern about collisions being a pretty big distortion of air-to-air tactics.
Only the player on who's FE the collision did not occur takes damage. Rammer's wet dream as only the player could not have potentially had access to the data about the collision takes damage, rammer gets to ram over and over and over. Insane and obviously not a good idea.
It cannot be any other way given the limits of the internet.
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This is bulltoejam.
It is easy as pie to understand unless you willfully resist understanding.
ah the sarcasm font is really needed. like I said it's been explained many times. and for the record is not that hard to ram somebody and both take damage. I do it when I must get rid of an opponent and I have no other choice.
semp
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OK...I now understand and am cool with this model but have one more question.
Dove on a 163 landing today and shot his wings off which caused the wingless plane to fall like a stone into me as I dove under banking away.
He got the kill and I got nothing.
He certainly didn't land it wingless but I was wondering how I did not score a kill on a plane I killed?
If what I now think I understand is correct.....then my shooting up bombers causing them to crash in a remote area a few minutes later will not award kills to me if I happen to be on my next sortie when the crash occurs.
And further.....if said bombers auger in near my teammates or the other enemy, Is this person the lucky recipient of a proxy kill even though he likely never saw or engaged the bombers I shot up causing the damage that eventually crashed them?
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OK...I now understand and am cool with this model but have one more question.
Dove on a 163 landing today and shot his wings off which caused the wingless plane to fall like a stone into me as I dove under banking away.
He got the kill and I got nothing.
He certainly didn't land it wingless but I was wondering how I did not score a kill on a plane I killed?
If what I now think I understand is correct.....then my shooting up bombers causing them to crash in a remote area a few minutes later will not award kills to me if I happen to be on my next sortie when the crash occurs.
And further.....if said bombers auger in near my teammates or the other enemy, Is this person the lucky recipient of a proxy kill even though he likely never saw or engaged the bombers I shot up causing the damage that eventually crashed them?
I'm assuming you "died" first when you crashed. Even though he crashed shortly after, you don't get credit for killing him even though you did, except occasionally in gvs where you will whack someone really good, die, up for a new sortie, in a gv or a plane, and get a kill message shortly after you took off because that other guy somehow died.
wrongway
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OK...I now understand and am cool with this model but have one more question.
Dove on a 163 landing today and shot his wings off which caused the wingless plane to fall like a stone into me as I dove under banking away.
He got the kill and I got nothing.
He certainly didn't land it wingless but I was wondering how I did not score a kill on a plane I killed?
(just guessing) You didn't kill him, you shot his wings off, collided with him, and he rode his wingless hulk down to the end, and you either bailed or died before he did so.
If what I now think I understand is correct.....then my shooting up bombers causing them to crash in a remote area a few minutes later will not award kills to me if I happen to be on my next sortie when the crash occurs.
that is correct. if you are not still on the same sortie, you don't get the kills. if you want credit, need to stay alive :)
And further.....if said bombers auger in near my teammates or the other enemy, Is this person the lucky recipient of a proxy kill even though he likely never saw or engaged the bombers I shot up causing the damage that eventually crashed them?
yep. exactly. or if say, you are the first person to attack that set of bombers, hit em all up smoking almost dead barely flying, but you die. and one guy comes in and pings each bomber with 1 round of 30 cal. he will get credit for all 3 when they auger.
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Thanks guys.....I know now what I need to adjust.
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semp, my brother, you missed my sarcasm :neener:
The only thing wrong with AH Collisions in my opinion is losing things like oil or ailerons from head on collsions or other impossible scenarios.
oh I understood it, why do you think I made the reference to women :neener:.
semp
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More questions.
Out of over 100 collisions I have been in, I have only survived 2 which means the other guy flies away seemingly undamaged 98% of the time.
Of those two surviving runs, I landed with half a wing while the other guy flies on.
Guy hits me from behind, I die and he flies on.
I hit person from behind, I die and he flies on.
We collide HO, I die and he flies on.
This happens regardless of whether I have been credited with colliding with him or the other way around.
Any idea what would cause this?
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Bullets!
He is shooting you as the colision occurs.
:salute
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What kind of bullets does a c47 shoot?
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Basically, due to unavoidable internet lag and the speeds at which WWII aircraft move, your relative positions can be dozens of yards apart on each Front End. So, Guy A can see a guy dive behind him, 100 yard back on his FE, while Guy B sees himself fly through Guy A's airplane on Guy B's FE. Now, Guy B rammed Guy A, but Guy A had no way of telling that he was going to get rammed and thus had no opportunity to avoid the damage, thus only Guy A, on who's FE the collision happened and thus had potential access to the data needed to avoid the collision, takes damage.
Sometimes people respond by saying "Well, then neither should take damage.", but that distorts the air-to-air combat tactics by making it a good idea to fly right through the enemy aircraft, firing from insanely close ranges. I won't miss that B-17 I am diving on at 500mph when I fly through it, whereas the B-17 gunner sees me dive 50 yards behind him, making his target much harder.
Basic choices are:
Both take damage. This leads to ramming being a viable tactic and being very hard to avoid as the player on who's FE the collision does not occur is not able to see that the collision is about to happen.
Only the player on who's FE the collision occurred takes damage. What we have in AH, intentional ramming is very hard and the player who could potentially have had access to the data to avoid it takes the damage.
Neither take damage. Leads to people flying through other aircraft, guns blazing, lack of concern about collisions being a pretty big distortion of air-to-air tactics.
Only the player on who's FE the collision did not occur takes damage. Rammer's wet dream as only the player could not have potentially had access to the data about the collision takes damage, rammer gets to ram over and over and over. Insane and obviously not a good idea.
Why is both take damage not a basic option?
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Why is both take damage not a basic option?
Because if a plane passes 50 yards from you and you don't dodge it as it isn't going to hit you, but then you go down because on his front end he did hit you, it would not be fun. You never had a chance to dodge as there was never a collision about to happen for you to know to dodge. Every player is responsible for not colliding on their own front end, being both rewarded and punished by their own success or lack of success in doing so.
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Grab a new plane. You aren't really dead. You go nose to nose and some times it happens. or if you are slower then you look and the guy coming down to pick you is going to fast, he'll sometimes collide that way too. Seems to happen to me a lot that way :)
Sometimes you'll be in a fight with someone you know and both of you try and cut it as close as you can at the merge and it happens too. I still have yet to really die from it, so I don't worry too much about it. Most times I just comment to the other guy that we should both turn right the next time. :aok
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Scenerio 1: I am level in bombers, watching TV and fail to notice a 109 diving on my 6 until he is charging straight up my tailpipe. Before I can get into the gun position, his nose hits my tail and I am the one the system said collided with him so I lose my entire tail.. bye bye bomber. The bat hits the ball, but the ball never hits the bat. :cry
Scenerio 2: Collision on my end is on right side of plane, yet rips left side off. According to what I see, he didn't come close to my left side, heck, according to the film he barely touched my wing tip, but I lost my entire wing while his ultra strong canopy protects him and he continues on the get more kills, minus a piece of gear. :huh
I've called HTC and had the collision model explained over and over again to me, but things like this just make me yell at my screen. I can't find logic in the theory of, as I said before, ball hits bat, but bat never hits balls. It is not logical to me with things like these even tho I understand the concept. :(
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What kind of bullets does a c47 shoot?
wysiwig bullets.... what you see is what you get. In every 1V1 there are 4 planes involved not 2! the 2 planes on your computer and the 2 planes on his computer. Just because you see and get a collision message doesnt mean the other player gets one.
If you take the time to search the forum on collisions you can find pictures from 2 players computers they show considerable difference between what player "A" saw and what player "B" saw.
So consider this,if HTC made it "fair" and both players crashed to earth,afterall that should happen,would you be upset if you narrowly missed someone but on "his" end "he" collided and you both go down? Now remeber you could be a 100 yards away or more when this happens do to internet lag.
Hopefully when the internet works at lightspeed HTC will fix the collision model.
:salute
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Scenerio 1: I am level in bombers, watching TV and fail to notice a 109 diving on my 6 until he is charging straight up my tailpipe. Before I can get into the gun position, his nose hits my tail and I am the one the system said collided with him so I lose my entire tail.. bye bye bomber. The bat hits the ball, but the ball never hits the bat. :cry
This is not an automobile collision in which fault needs to be determined. There is no fault, only location, your Front End, his Front End. It is a simple question of which Front End detects a collision. If on his Front End he flew under you and on your Front End he flew into you, the collision will only be yours.
Scenerio 2: Collision on my end is on right side of plane, yet rips left side off. According to what I see, he didn't come close to my left side, heck, according to the film he barely touched my wing tip, but I lost my entire wing while his ultra strong canopy protects him and he continues on the get more kills, minus a piece of gear. :huh
Did you see the collision? It is likely he shot your left wing off and your right wing brushed him. The bit about his "ultra strong canopy" is FUD. He didn't collide with you on his Front End, you collided with him on your Front End.
I've called HTC and had the collision model explained over and over again to me, but things like this just make me yell at my screen. I can't find logic in the theory of, as I said before, ball hits bat, but bat never hits balls. It is not logical to me with things like these even tho I understand the concept. :(
It is incredibly simple, but first you need to stop thinking in terms of automobile collisions, stop thinking in terms of who was approaching who.
Hopefully when the internet works at lightspeed HTC will fix the collision model.
Light speed would still be a bit too slow.
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Did you see the collision? It is likely he shot your left wing off and your right wing brushed him. The bit about his "ultra strong canopy" is FUD. He didn't collide with you on his Front End, you collided with him on your Front End.
Yes, I have it on video somewhere.. I think. It was right after they added the auto record. Both of us were bad shots and neither hit the other until the collision.
It is incredibly simple, but first you need to stop thinking in terms of automobile collisions, stop thinking in terms of who was approaching who.
But I have a good lawyer for Auto accidents!
Light speed would still be a bit too slow.
So is it the faster front end, or the slower that typically sees the collision more often? Depending on this I might change how I access the net. Kind of like way back when you could reduce graphics to see the enemy tanks through trees. Those with the slower PC or who used low graphic settings had, in general, an advantage.
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My question is why does my plane die every single time and the other plane fly off seemingly undamaged........even when full of 20mm cannon?
Does colliding with a bomber you jumped (no defensive fire) remove the damage you just caused before the collision?
I would understand if this happens even up to 75% of the time but not 98 out of 100 (actually 70 out of 70 last tour).
Many collisions I lose are in GV where the fighter that hit me flies off not even smoking.
I guess it's two questions as to whether I have a connection issue that is causing this and how I can fix it.
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You are still not looking at it correctly.
A computer detects the plane it is controlling has intersected with another object and it assigns the appropriate damage to that plane, given the circumstances of the intersection.
Take the above and apply it to the remote player, and so on.
If the other plane does not show it was damaged, then the other computer did not detect that plane intersected with another object.
Without fail, your plane WILL take damage every time your computer detects your plane has intersected with another object (i.e. you did not avoid the collision).
Without fail, the other plane WILL take damage every time that computer detects that plane has intersected with another object (i.e. the other player did not avoid the collision).
If you do not wish to take damage from a collision, you simply avoid the collision. That is how you stop it. That is the only way to stop it. When you say everyone else flies away fine, then all you are saying is the other player did a better job of avoiding the collision.
Every computer running the game has its own unique view of the world. If you took all the computers and froze an instant in time and looked at the position of every plane, there is more than a fair chance none of the planes would be in exactly the same place on any given computer.
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Without fail, your plane WILL take damage every time your computer detects your plane has intersected with another object (i.e. you did not avoid the collision).
Without fail, the other plane WILL take damage every time that computer detects that plane has intersected with another object (i.e. the other player did not avoid the collision).
so, if you have a collision event and on your end it shows <pile-it> collided with you, should your airplane be damaged as well as his?
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I do not know a thing about the messages. If your computer detects your plane intersected with another object, your computer assigns the appropriate damage to your plane.
If the other players computer detects his plane has intersected with another object, then his plane will be assigned the appropriate damage by his computer.
Basically, the same rule applies to every plane in the game. The computer assigns the damage to the plane the player is flying, when it is needed.
The confusion comes in due to the differences in how each computers plane is in a slightly different location in its virtual world, as compared to any other computer. Without this, then if one plane collided with another, the other would also collide as well.
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although rare, i've had times when someone collided with me, the text box shows <pile-it> has collided with you...and doing ctrl+d shows no damage to my plane.
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although rare, i've had times when someone collided with me, the text box shows <pile-it> has collided with you...and doing ctrl+d shows no damage to my plane.
As it should. "XY has collided with you" means there was a collision on his system, in his world. Not necessarily in yours. Only if you read "you have collided" it means there was a collision on your computer too.
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What about if "So'nSo" collided with you, or Visa Versa, BOTH are given the appropriate damage. This only makes sense, as you can see what happens in this picture.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Cqsz8W7tuTI/Rtrv0rSG7JI/AAAAAAAADJA/qP3p3Jmdy0M/s400/collision.jpg)
This would give people more a reason to avoid the collision (if possible); That is if they care about crashing in the first place...
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What about if "So'nSo" collided with you, or Visa Versa, BOTH are given the appropriate damage. This only makes sense,
Does it?
So when I pass your plane at 50 yards distance and you suddenly get a collisison message and explode... does that really make sense to you? You totally AVOID my plane on your screen, yet you still go down?
This would give people more a reason to avoid the collision (if possible);
No it would not. You can't actively avoid what you can't see. On the other hand, it would greatly increase the benefits of ramming. Your wish would have the totally opposite effect of what you are looking for.
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When merging with an enemy aircraft, don't be the parakeet who flies into the window seeing another parakeet in the window. Just avoid the collision, it's really that simple.
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Does it?
So when I pass your plane at 50 yards distance and you suddenly get a collisison message and explode... does that really make sense to you? You totally AVOID my plane on your screen, yet you still go down?
I get it, I do... I assume it's nearly impossible to code that precisely with the online latency... It's just frustrating when you do what you can to avoid a collision, and the other pilot flies away fine while you fall to the ground.
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Does it?
So when I pass your plane at 50 yards distance and you suddenly get a collisison message and explode... does that really make sense to you? You totally AVOID my plane on your screen, yet you still go down?
The problem with you, Lusche, is you have this knack of making sense. :aok
What about if both systems had to agree on the collision? I mean the rounds and ord are subject to the same laws I'd suspect, but not sure how difficult that would be to put in place or even the practicality.
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Light speed would still be a bit too slow.
Light speed too slow?
Yes, we're going to have to go right to....
Ludicrous speed.
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What about if both systems had to agree on the collision? I mean the rounds and ord are subject to the same laws I'd suspect, but not sure how difficult that would be to put in place or even the practicality.
One of the reasons why this is less desirable than the current model: Connection latencies do really come into play. Example: Two US players with low pings do get a mutual collision message more often than a US and a Aussie or Euro player. That means a US player would almost always get damage from a collision, while I would often not. So flying through an enemy plane (for example a bomber) would much less risky for me than for an US player.
The current model is the best possible compromise. What you see is what you get. With any other method, this it not the case.
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What about if both systems had to agree on the collision? I mean the rounds and ord are subject to the same laws I'd suspect,
Nope. Rounds and ord are calculated local on the shooter's system, not the shootee's. A bullet or bomb fired from my plane on my system that strikes your plane or GV on my system scores a hit. It doesn't matter what your system sees. This is the reason you'll sometimes see a '1 ping kill' from someone that's not chucking taters. The net lags momentarily, causing your system to not receive the damage packets over the half second or so they happen, then you get all the damage at once when the lag catches up.
This is also why you'll often see tracers going by you if you're maneuvering hard, but you take damage. Because your system saw the bullets go by, but on his system they struck your plane.
Also, what Lusche said.
Wiley.
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(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8585/collision.gif)
You are the P-47.
On your front end, the P-61 is the darker one and he is 50yds behind you.
Should you take collision damage?
wrongway
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(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8585/collision.gif)
You are the P-47.
On your front end, the P-51 is the brighter one and he is 50yds behind you.
;)
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(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8585/collision.gif)
You are the P-47.
On your front end, the P-61 is the darker one and he is 50yds behind you.
Should you take collision damage?
wrongway
I think it's time for General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett's pigheaded idea to be put into effect. This is all your fault with that sound reasoning mumbo jumbo.
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I think it's time for General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett's pigheaded idea to be put into effect. This is all your fault with that sound reasoning mumbo jumbo.
Amen. Quit making so much sense! :lol
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The problem with you, Lusche, is you have this knack of making sense. :aok
What about if both systems had to agree on the collision? I mean the rounds and ord are subject to the same laws I'd suspect, but not sure how difficult that would be to put in place or even the practicality.
That would enable aircraft not armed with explosive rounds to literally fly through their target, guns blazing. It is hard to miss from 5 yards.
Needless to say, this would be a heavy distortion of air-to-air combat.
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Light speed too slow?
Yes, we're going to have to go right to....
Ludicrous speed.
To be fair to Karnak I forgot to put the rolley eyes after my comment as I was being sarcastic! I really meant when the internet runs at warp speed...... :D
:salute
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I think I found a new way to kill bombers when out of ammunition... do it 3 X times and fly home without a scratch :noid
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I'm get hit by a plane while in a tank and the plane flies off undamaged?
Again....if I lost 75% of my collisions I would understand but there has to be some underlying issue why I lose 100% of them this last tour.
This counts me getting hit while in a c47 as well as my hitting a c47 yet I always die.
There has to be something other than game code that is causing this.
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I'm get hit by a plane while in a tank and the plane flies off undamaged?
Again....if I lost 75% of my collisions I would understand but there has to be some underlying issue why I lose 100% of them this last tour.
This counts me getting hit while in a c47 as well as my hitting a c47 yet I always die.
There has to be something other than game code that is causing this.
PEBCAK.
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In fear of adding to the confusion - it is also possible to take damage from your OWN cannon at very close ranges. I caught this on film a while back. I was shooting at a plane that broke back into me as I fired. I kept the button down and he exploded a millisecond before we should have collided (on my end). On his end, we did collide, and I received a message saying so. My damage was - can you guess??
A pilot wound! I was originally quite confused. How could a pilot wound be caused by a collision (and the message said he collided with me). Slowing down the film showed cannon shells exploding on his fuselage just before I flew through his ashes and smoke. The film also showed the pilot wound occurred fractionally before the "merge".
It may well be that if you are firing cannon into the face of a C47 at zero range then you are shooting yourself down. A rare one for the purists anyway.
rgds
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I think it's time for General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett's pigheaded idea to be put into effect. This is all your fault with that sound reasoning mumbo jumbo.
:rofl MERRRRRR
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In fear of adding to the confusion - it is also possible to take damage from your OWN cannon at very close ranges. I caught this on film a while back. I was shooting at a plane that broke back into me as I fired. I kept the button down and he exploded a millisecond before we should have collided (on my end). On his end, we did collide, and I received a message saying so. My damage was - can you guess??
A pilot wound! I was originally quite confused. How could a pilot wound be caused by a collision (and the message said he collided with me). Slowing down the film showed cannon shells exploding on his fuselage just before I flew through his ashes and smoke. The film also showed the pilot wound occurred fractionally before the "merge".
It may well be that if you are firing cannon into the face of a C47 at zero range then you are shooting yourself down. A rare one for the purists anyway.
rgds
Yes, hence why I specified guns firing non-explosive rounds would be able to fly through their target, guns blazing, in post #61 of this thread. Explosive rounds have splash damage and you can shoot yourself down with your own guns, particularly in the 30mm+ sizes.