Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Skyguns MKII on May 15, 2011, 02:30:42 PM

Title: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Skyguns MKII on May 15, 2011, 02:30:42 PM
I think many within the community are over thinking how subs should be like if introduced in the game.  We don’t necessarily need to code in ocean floors and ocean life in the game like everybody seems to think.  We don’t need to code depths as complex as we all seem to think either.  I would imagine it would be very similar to the PT boat.  All we need at the moment is the illusion of under water and above water.  If you’re under water there’s no need to code ocean environment because you would be in the control room and using your sonar and clipboard for reference.  NO F3 when under water!!!  When you see on your gauges that you’re close to the surface you may use your periscope witch would be like using a gv sight, though your sub is visible there’s no icon.  Icons would appear when you are finally above water and you are also able to use f3.  Much like the gunner positions on a bomber until you’re in the air, you are unable to use your deck guns until you have fully surfaced.  The deeper your sub is the less likely it will be sunk by anti sub weapons.  Should you exploit you oxygen or your batteries you will automatically lose your engines and surface to await your death or ditch.  One thing I have yet to know of yet, is it possible to code depths in the game and how land masses affect them?  <--- feedback on that  

Here, a rough example chart I made. Put the Crush depth level where ever youd like on it.

(http://i55.tinypic.com/2vlv02u.jpg)

feedback, opinions, addons, constuctive critisism, all welcome. Just my 0.02$
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Tupac on May 15, 2011, 02:41:21 PM
+1
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: SpencAce on May 15, 2011, 02:51:20 PM
I sweat to god... that is one  of the best ideas anbody has ever had on this game...  :O :O :O :O :O
+1000000000000000000000000000000
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Golfer on May 15, 2011, 02:54:55 PM
Well at least with the spelling of some of that stuff Hitech will probably understand what you're saying.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: JOACH1M on May 15, 2011, 02:55:15 PM
I sweat to god... that is one  of the best ideas anbody has ever had on this game...  :O :O :O :O :O
+1000000000000000000000000000000
How your supposed to know, you have been here for a month :lol anyway it is a good wish I don't know if I'm for it or not...
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: caldera on May 15, 2011, 03:06:11 PM
I sweat to god... that is one  of the best ideas anbody has ever had on this game...  :O :O :O :O :O
+1000000000000000000000000000000

Blasphemer!  Don't ever, ever sweat to God again!  :furious
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: EskimoJoe on May 15, 2011, 03:13:14 PM
Blasphemer!  Don't ever, ever sweat to God again!  :furious

It's the sacrificial offering of body salt!
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Penguin on May 15, 2011, 03:13:41 PM
I don't know whether you're trying to be funny or are in an actual religious fervor. 

-Penguin
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Skyguns MKII on May 15, 2011, 03:17:35 PM
I feel as if i had been hijacked
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: JOACH1M on May 15, 2011, 03:21:41 PM
I feel as if i had been hijacked
Naw  :D
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: caldera on May 15, 2011, 03:25:16 PM
It's the sacrificial offering of body salt!

 :rofl

In that case, sweat profusely. :aok
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: iron650 on May 15, 2011, 04:24:51 PM
+2 But at periscope depth down a torpedo can still be fired.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Skyguns MKII on May 15, 2011, 04:32:20 PM
+2 But at periscope depth down a torpedo can still be fired.

I know  ;) just not as likely
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: tf15pin on May 15, 2011, 04:37:50 PM
Subs could be fun but there just aren't any targets for them in the game now. They could only really attack the CV groups and with the speed difference they would never get close. It would be like trying to intercept B-29s with a D3A. If subs are added the base supply convoy set up would have to be redone to have island or coastal bases supplied by sea to give the subs a target that was slow and showed up regularly for them to shoot up. Otherwise there would just be a bunch of guys sitting in Das Boot getting drunk for 20 hr sorties with nothing to shoot at.  Wait, never mind +1 for subs without targets. :cheers:
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: TwinTail on May 15, 2011, 04:38:34 PM
This model is an Exact Duplicate of Sub warfare in the Battlestation series.

- 5
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: AWwrgwy on May 15, 2011, 04:43:29 PM
Depth = Pressure
Pressure = Crush Depth.
No Bottom = going to deep = you die
No Bottom = going deep to avoid depth charges.
Bottom = surface ships knowing the depth so they can drop depth charges
No depth charges =

There's LOTS of variables to model besides ocean floors.

But hey, I'm overthinking.


wrongway
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Skyguns MKII on May 15, 2011, 04:46:48 PM
This model is an Exact Duplicate of Sub warfare in the Battlestation series.

- 5

Not even!, come on theres gonna be a number of games that have similar sub warfare. Its impossible to be too original with it, The sub gos up and down left and right. Cant use deck guns under water, and cant exploit its necessities. I can make a list here  :lol
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Skyguns MKII on May 15, 2011, 04:51:33 PM
Depth = Pressure
Pressure = Crush Depth.
No Bottom = going to deep = you die
No Bottom = going deep to avoid depth charges.
Bottom = surface ships knowing the depth so they can drop depth charges
No depth charges =

There's LOTS of variables to model besides ocean floors.

But hey, I'm overthinking.


wrongway

There should be a standard depth the sub cant go lower than, sub cant go too deep or sinks, sub cant get too close to the charges or sinks. ocean floor gradually get shallower and shallower as you approach land. Not too difficult but i hear ya.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: M0nkey_Man on May 15, 2011, 04:56:18 PM
finally someone on a sub topic that actually shows us a plan +1
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: jolly22 on May 15, 2011, 05:30:40 PM
Not even!, come on theres gonna be a number of games that have similar sub warfare. Its impossible to be too original with it, The sub gos up and down left and right. Cant use deck guns under water, and cant exploit its necessities. I can make a list here  :lol

 :ahand
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: iron650 on May 15, 2011, 06:32:15 PM
Bottom = surface ships knowing the depth so they can drop depth charges
There's LOTS of variables to model besides ocean floors.
But hey, I'm overthinking.
wrongway

The sub can ram the ocean floor.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Skyguns MKII on May 15, 2011, 07:27:07 PM
The sub can ram the ocean floor.

Theres simple ways to simulate that, have the sub grind to a stop and be no longer Able to dive deeper, depending on speed will calculate damage. But you don't need to see the ocean floor though.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Karnak on May 16, 2011, 03:49:26 AM
Isn't there a thermal layer that significantly reflected sonar if you could get below it?

I recall that being in one of my old sub sims....and my pre-war US sub couldn't get deep enough to get below it without passing its crush depth.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: DemonFox on May 16, 2011, 10:43:10 AM
Hehe I say +1 for the subs would be fun for attacking CV and if they add merchant shipping.

Plus! Would be great target for my PBY-5A with depth charges  :noid
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: lulu on May 16, 2011, 03:01:55 PM
+1



In particular I like the part in which we smoke and drink something good all together.


 :neener:
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: gyrene81 on May 16, 2011, 03:30:55 PM
hmmmm...average safe depth of u-boats 250 meters...mk9 depth charge max depth 1000 feet...could be interesting.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Skyguns MKII on November 17, 2011, 07:54:26 PM
I do think that new strats that include the reintroduction of trains and introduce cargo ships will make it an even bigger necessity in the game.. 
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Debrody on November 17, 2011, 08:18:55 PM
Those features all exist in a real decent game, called Silent Hunter. And thats not Aces High.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Spikes on November 17, 2011, 08:52:52 PM
I hate Dept. store charges, damn.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: PuppetZ on November 17, 2011, 08:59:58 PM
All things considered, and while I salute the effort, I tend to believe this is over-simplification of submarine and ASUW warfare. As Wrongway put it, "There's LOTS of variables to model besides ocean floors". Simulating submarines is a whole world in itself. These were (and still are) amongst the most complex pieces of technology ever built by man.

 :salute
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Chalenge on November 17, 2011, 10:36:41 PM
Subs could be fun but there just aren't any targets for them in the game now. They could only really attack the CV groups and with the speed difference they would never get close...

The way CVs are used in AH (sitting for hours near a field) they could easily be intercepted. The problem is that bombers are more timely.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Mano on November 18, 2011, 06:12:55 PM
The Submarines survived by surfacing at night and recharging their batteries when it was safe to run those diesel engines.
I don't think a stealth ship should have an icon for everyone to see. WWII subs were slow and it will take forever for them
to go anywhere. Leave the icons off or some bombster is gonna get 'em.

<S> Skyguns.....you obviously put allot of effort in your post.
Maybe as previously posted....to keep it simple, the sub commanders only see the control room and when at periscope depth
they can pan around and observe the surface ships, ect. Out the portholes......you gotta see a mermaid occasionally   :D :D
btw.....where is that pesky Nemo anyway? 

Mine mine mine mine mine mine mine ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

(http://i55.tinypic.com/2vlv02u.jpg)
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: atom360 on November 18, 2011, 06:26:37 PM
I LIKES IT!!!!!!! :O :O :O :rock :rock :rock :salute
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: EVZ on November 18, 2011, 07:39:46 PM
Blasphemer!  Don't ever, ever sweat to God again!  :furious

It's Ok, she's easy ...

 :pray
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: matt on November 18, 2011, 09:03:54 PM
+1  anything new to the game makes me happy to stay around.....
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: EagleDNY on November 19, 2011, 03:07:26 PM
I was a avid player of Silent Hunter, so first let me say that I like U-boats and sub games in general. 

That said, I still think Subs are worthless in AH.  1.  The torpedo problem - our torpedoes are slow and our targets are all running around at 30+ knots.  Even if we could get in a position to fire, our chances are pretty small of hitting anything.  2.  Surfacing in the middle of a CV group (or next to a PT boat running circles around me at 42 Knots) to open up with a 5" deck gun = a quick trip to davey jones locker. 

IF we had a strat system that depended on slow convoys of merchant ships running around and were prime targets for destruction, they are much better targets for aircraft and PT boats than they are for submarines.  That B-25 strafer model was MADE for that, and a PT boat is going to catch the convoy and deliver a load of torpedoes faster than a sub ever will.

Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: 321BAR on November 19, 2011, 03:22:50 PM
Those features all exist in a real decent game, called Silent Hunter. And thats not Aces High.
HiTech wants it... so it'd probably come some day
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: MAINER on November 19, 2011, 10:52:34 PM
+1  :O :O :O :O
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 20, 2011, 01:50:18 AM
I can see this being a big factor in the CV-hiding dweebs plans. Not only will they have to keep an eye on it, to make sure nobody moves it, they'll also have to keep somebody stationed on it 24/7 to turn it incase of torpedo attacks.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: bortas1 on November 20, 2011, 12:25:36 PM
 :salute good idea. im fact could get a bunch of guys in subs and create a wolf pact against fleets. which would cause alot of :sob sank the fleet now we cant take that base. umm bombers do that now yes?
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: Skyguns MKII on November 20, 2011, 12:31:59 PM


IF we had a strat system that depended on slow convoys of merchant ships running around and were prime targets for destruction, they are much better targets for aircraft and PT boats than they are for submarines.  That B-25 strafer model was MADE for that, and a PT boat is going to catch the convoy and deliver a load of torpedoes faster than a sub ever will.



your missing one factor, stealth. When submerged they will never see it coming, no DAR, no blinking, nothing. A helpful factor when you have many enemy aircraft swarming and killing everything that they can "see".
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: stabbyy on November 20, 2011, 01:53:58 PM
The Submarines survived by surfacing at night and recharging their batteries when it was safe to run those diesel engines.
I don't think a stealth ship should have an icon for everyone to see. WWII subs were slow


u are right on the batteries and i agree a "stealth" ship should have no icon when surfaced it would be about the size of a destroyer(depending on the make/model) and not all subs were terribly slow just majority



Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: stabbyy on November 20, 2011, 02:03:03 PM
I was a avid player of Silent Hunter, so first let me say that I like U-boats and sub games in general. 

That said, I still think Subs are worthless in AH.  1.  The torpedo problem - our torpedoes are slow and our targets are all running around at 30+ knots.

and a PT boat is going to catch the convoy and deliver a load of torpedoes faster than a sub ever will.



subs are stealthy...and submerged(hint hint) with offten 6 foward tubes and anywhere from 1-4 aft tubes(for us/uk) that is already a better advantage then a pt boat thirdly our cv's do 34 knots so does the cruiser....torp speed on jap torps was around 47 knots same with mark 14 us torps japs just had longer range
germans had some torps with passive homing(magnetic i asume) also alot of subs had the option to lay mines(great for stopping lvts/supply lines) and as your average sub only displaced about 14ft(not counting costal defence mine laying subs/midget subs) of water you could sit right off town or get a attack cruiser class sub... and go chase down a cv
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: stabbyy on November 20, 2011, 02:05:46 PM
yay for double post....

Was going to put a nice image of a ship getting sunk by a sub but apprently i cant figure it out today...


Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: EagleDNY on November 20, 2011, 04:58:17 PM
germans had some torps with passive homing(magnetic i asume) also alot of subs had the option to lay mines(great for stopping lvts/supply lines) and as your average sub only displaced about 14ft(not counting costal defence mine laying subs/midget subs) of water you could sit right off town or get a attack cruiser class sub... and go chase down a cv

1.  The German homing torpedoes were acoustic, and designed for use against escorts.  The late version one only had a 5.7K range at 24.5 Knots - perfect for sticking into a destroyer coming directly at you at high speed, but pretty worthless for trying to hit a crossing target (CV) moving at 30+ knots.
2.  The "chase down a CV" is pretty much impossible since your top speed surfaced is only 20 knots and the CV is at 33+.  If you were submerged and managed (somehow) to sight a CV at 15,000 yards in the periscope, you have virtually no chance to hit a 33+ knot target unless he pretty much runs right over you.  German electric torps only go 30 knots, so if it were Silent Hunter I'd need to switch to a G7 gas/steam model that would do 7.5K yards at 40 knots and pray the escorts don't follow the bubbles back and drop a can down my periscope.
Title: Re: IF we get subs 00.02$
Post by: EVZ on November 20, 2011, 05:18:40 PM
The "chase down a CV" is pretty much impossible since your top speed surfaced is only 20 knots and the CV is at 33+. 

I have to agree, WWII subs typically tried to attack from within 3,000 yds to realisticaly expect hits. Unless merchant shipping is added subs are not going to be utilised much. They WOULD add great targets for planes doing anti sub patrols and for PTs which ? if I recall already include (empty) Depth Charge Racks ? Depth charges should be easy, just slow down the rate of descent on a 500 lb ? Existing Radar programing could probably be adapted to SONAR for the destroyers? They'd have to add Negative Altitude to water squares. And keep the subs semi-visible to scouts at costal depths.

All in all an interesting idea, but ? I doubt it will get any priority from HT, given the OTHER options for additions.   :joystick: