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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: iron650 on May 16, 2011, 06:18:09 AM

Title: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 16, 2011, 06:18:09 AM
The A-36 is a jabo divebomber. The Germans called the A-36 was used in the North African campaign. They were used in the China-Burma theater where they were outclassed by the Ki-43 "Oscar." In 1944 they were replaced by P-47s and P-40s. It served from 1943 to 1944. It was one of the P-51's brothers. They were used in several fighter missions.

Characteristics:
Engine: 1 Allison V-1710-87 liquid-cooled piston V12 engine, 1,325 hp
Crew: 1
length: 32ft 0.25in
wingspan: 37ft 0.25in
height: 12ft 2in
loaded weight: 10,000lbs
Max speed: 365mph
Cruise: 250mph
Range: 550mi
Service ceiling: 25,100ft

Armament:
6 .50 cal M2 brownings
1,000lbs of bombs on external racks


The bomber would be useful to divebombers who want to stay and strafe or divebombers that also want to eliminate anymore uppers. The bomber is practically a divebombing P-51. Plus it can be a decent fighter bomber. Also decent for anti-gv patrols who ran out of bombs but have ammo in the guns. Please let it score as fighter/bomber or fighter/attacker. They will also help scenario play.

(http://800px-A36_Invader)




Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: MachFly on May 16, 2011, 07:07:05 AM
So it's like a slow pony...?


Why would you take it over the P-51? P-51 is lighter, faster, and carries more ord. I think it would be another hangar queen. 
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: EskimoJoe on May 16, 2011, 07:23:51 AM
The Germans called the A-36 was used in the North African campaign.


 :huh


Quote
They were used in the China-Burma theater where they were outclassed by the Ki-43 "Oscar."


 :huh


Quote
1,000lbs of bombs on external racks


So it's like a divebombing pony, right?
Except it's worse in every possible way?
So.. You want something quite insignificant,
that was replaced the P-40 of all elite aircraft?

 :bhead
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: icepac on May 16, 2011, 10:23:09 AM
Why not?

Scoring a kill in an A36 after destroying stuff is sweet.

Not every single new plane is required to be higher performing than most of the planeset.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: colmbo on May 16, 2011, 11:02:56 AM
Why would you take it over the P-51? P-51 is lighter, faster, and carries more ord. I think it would be another hangar queen. 

FYI, the A-36 is a decent performer down low.

For at least some of us it isn't about taking the latest/greatest ride....it's about doing well with what you have.

The Apache would be very fitting for North Africa events.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Krusty on May 16, 2011, 11:29:19 AM
It's not outside of HTC's realm. Warbirds had it, too. While relatively limited in use and numbers, it would be as interesting an addition as the B-17D might be. Different, not as capable, but still in the same family.


I could have swore there was a version with the 2x50cal in the nose but 4x30cal in the wings, though. Am I cross-mixing memories, or was there an early version like that?
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: MachFly on May 16, 2011, 11:30:23 AM
FYI, the A-36 is a decent performer down low.

For at least some of us it isn't about taking the latest/greatest ride....it's about doing well with what you have.

The Apache would be very fitting for North Africa events.

True
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Flayed on May 16, 2011, 12:13:47 PM
This???   (http://astroaviator.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/ah64apache.jpg)   or do I have the wrong Apache? :D :P


 Sorry couldn't resist. lol   Next evil con mission?  :eek:
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Soulyss on May 16, 2011, 12:16:13 PM
It's not outside of HTC's realm. Warbirds had it, too. While relatively limited in use and numbers, it would be as interesting an addition as the B-17D might be. Different, not as capable, but still in the same family.


I could have swore there was a version with the 2x50cal in the nose but 4x30cal in the wings, though. Am I cross-mixing memories, or was there an early version like that?

That's my recollection as well, I don't believe the A-36 ever had six .50's in the wings.  I'll grab a book off the shelf later and try and confirm.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Krusty on May 16, 2011, 12:24:39 PM
I know they didn't have 6 .50s in the wings, but the question is: did they ever have .30s in the wings? Or was it always .50s?
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Soulyss on May 16, 2011, 12:27:51 PM
Nope, we're wrong. :)

6 .50's, two in the lower fuselage and four in the wings.

:)
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: gyrene81 on May 16, 2011, 12:31:34 PM
wasn't it the mustang 1 that had the 30s in the wings with fuselage mounted 50s?
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: MachFly on May 16, 2011, 12:32:32 PM
Nope, we're wrong. :)

6 .50's, two in the lower fuselage and four in the wings.

:)

Lower fuselage? So under the cockpit?
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: gyrene81 on May 16, 2011, 12:34:38 PM
Lower fuselage? So under the cockpit?
front cowling under the nose just behind the prop.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: MachFly on May 16, 2011, 12:37:41 PM
front cowling under the nose just behind the prop.

Ah, got it.
I see it on this picture
(http://www.airdic.com/UserFiles/tomcat/A36Apache.jpg)
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Soulyss on May 16, 2011, 01:03:26 PM
Yep, can see them a little more clearly here.
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/a36apache-2.jpg)
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Krusty on May 16, 2011, 01:05:45 PM
I think they were hard to get to and clean/rearm/maintain.

Interesting side note: The first series ("Serie 0") of G.55 also had 2 guns UNDER the nose. Along with 2 guns on top of the nose it had 4x 12.7mm MGs all synchronized through the prop (plus a 20mm firing through the hub). These were also ditched in favor of wing guns because of access problems. Only difference is the G.55 Serie 1 went with 20mm instead of .50cal when they made the move  :D
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Karnak on May 16, 2011, 01:18:20 PM
A-36 would be a nice addition to AH.  Get us something earlier in the Mustang family, with an Allison engine.

I also like that this isn't a request for you know what kinds of guns disguised as a request for an Allison Mustang.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: cactuskooler on May 16, 2011, 01:38:21 PM
This???   (http://astroaviator.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/ah64apache.jpg)   or do I have the wrong Apache? :D :P

No...

This! (http://www.chooseyouritem.com/airplanes/photos/6209000/6209489.1981.Beechcraft.Bonanza.A36.jpg)   Or do I have the wrong A36? :bolt:
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Guppy35 on May 16, 2011, 01:44:34 PM
Early Allison Mustang with MGs or the A36 would be nice.  They both cover MTO, CBI and the Allison 51 with the MGs covers ETO as well.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 16, 2011, 02:51:37 PM
The Germans called the A-36 the invader. It was used in the North African campaign.

Sorry fixed. (in quotes)

I think they were hard to get to and clean/rearm/maintain.

Interesting side note: The first series ("Serie 0") of G.55 also had 2 guns UNDER the nose. Along with 2 guns on top of the nose it had 4x 12.7mm MGs all synchronized through the prop (plus a 20mm firing through the hub). These were also ditched in favor of wing guns because of access problems. Only difference is the G.55 Serie 1 went with 20mm instead of .50cal when they made the move  :D

I was talking about the A model.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: lyric1 on May 16, 2011, 03:16:48 PM
This one with the big guns in the wings looks interesting.  :rock











What about that one. :headscratch:  :aok  :D  :bolt:

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/febc0bcfb2c18d4b7020449e1fa1320b.jpg)
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: MachFly on May 16, 2011, 03:17:58 PM
This one with the big guns in the wings looks interesting.  :rock

What about that one. :headscratch:  :aok  :D  :bolt:

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/febc0bcfb2c18d4b7020449e1fa1320b.jpg)

Isn't that a P-51?
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 16, 2011, 03:23:48 PM
This one with the big guns in the wings looks interesting.  :rock











What about that one. :headscratch:  :aok  :D  :bolt:



Think thats a Pony MKI  :headscratch:
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: gyrene81 on May 16, 2011, 03:34:04 PM
Think thats a Pony MKI  :headscratch:
mk1-a...the mk1 had 2-.30 cals and 4-.50 cals
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 16, 2011, 03:37:53 PM
mk1-a...the mk1 had 2-.30 cals and 4-.50 cals

The picture I've seen of them had bulging .50 cals.


So would you guys say +1?  :headscratch:
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: EagleDNY on May 16, 2011, 06:44:31 PM
Might as well just take a P-51B (4x50's and 2 500 Lb bombs).  It really isn't so much of a difference that I would put the A-36 ahead of many other needed rides.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 16, 2011, 06:52:00 PM
Might as well just take a P-51B (4x50's and 2 500 Lb bombs).  It really isn't so much of a difference that I would put the A-36 ahead of many other needed rides.

I was just flying that today. But, how about for scenario play? Also, more gunload and divebombing accuracy.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: EagleDNY on May 16, 2011, 07:04:53 PM
I was just flying that today. But, how about for scenario play? Also, more gunload and divebombing accuracy.

The extra couple of nose mounted guns are an oddity for sure.  Dive bombing accuracy between a A-36 and a P-51B in AH I would expect would be exactly the same though.  It is an interesting find, but I can't say that I want this ride more than I want a Fiat G.55, or the Re.2005, or the Me-410.  We are kind of heavy on the American rides, and I'd like to see a bit more Axis iron in the game first.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 16, 2011, 07:20:02 PM
The extra couple of nose mounted guns are an oddity for sure.  Dive bombing accuracy between a A-36 and a P-51B in AH I would expect would be exactly the same though.  It is an interesting find, but I can't say that I want this ride more than I want a Fiat G.55, or the Re.2005, or the Me-410.  We are kind of heavy on the American rides, and I'd like to see a bit more Axis iron in the game first.

I agree with the Axis iron. But, how about the A-36 we don't have any divebombers that can strafe. Also, It is faster than most divebombers in the game.  :salute :airplane:
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 16, 2011, 07:26:53 PM
I agree with the Axis iron. But, how about the A-36 we don't have any divebombers that can strafe. Also, It is faster than most divebombers in the game.  :salute :airplane:

The P-38 can strafe, so can the P-47, the P-51B/D and a myriad of other fighter planes that performed better than the A-36 as a diver bomber that we already have in game.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 16, 2011, 07:29:16 PM
The P-38 can strafe, so can the P-47, the P-51B/D and a myriad of other fighter planes that performed better than the A-36 as a diver bomber that we already have in game.

ack-ack


I said divebomber and that none of them have the guns to strafe in any way shape or form. Also, most divebombers are very slow.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 16, 2011, 07:42:01 PM

I said divebomber and that none of them have the guns to strafe in any way shape or form. Also, most divebombers are very slow.

P-38s were used as dive bombers, F4U Corsairs were used as dive bombers, P-47s, P-51s, etc.  And yes, they did have the guns to strafe as towards the end of the way the primary missions for planes like the P-38 and P-47 were strafing targets of opportunity.

In fact, the major reason why dive bombers became obsolete was due to the dual mission nature of the fighters being produced that performed in the dive bombing role just as good, if not better, then dedicated dive bombers.

ack-ack
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 16, 2011, 07:43:19 PM
P-38s were used as dive bombers, F4U Corsairs were used as dive bombers, P-47s, P-51s, etc.  And yes, they did have the guns to strafe as towards the end of the way the primary missions for planes like the P-38 and P-47 were strafing targets of opportunity.

In fact, the major reason why dive bombers became obsolete was due to the dual mission nature of the fighters being produced that performed in the dive bombing role just as good, if not better, then dedicated dive bombers.

ack-ack

Most didn't have divebrakes and if they pulled out a late they would hit serious compression.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 16, 2011, 07:49:35 PM
Most didn't have divebrakes and if they pulled out a late they would hit serious compression.

The Corsair had dive brakes, the P-38L (and late model P-38J) and P-47s had dive recovery flaps. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 16, 2011, 07:57:16 PM
The Corsair had dive brakes, the P-38L (and late model P-38J) and P-47s had dive recovery flaps. 

ack-ack

How about scenario play in the Desert Campaign? Also, wouldn't it sound nice to have something like a divebombing pony?
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Plazus on May 16, 2011, 08:05:05 PM
How about scenario play in the Desert Campaign? Also, wouldn't it sound nice to have something like a divebombing pony?

Not really. If I want a dive-bombing pony, I'll just strap some 500 lbers on a D-pony and get the job done.

-1 for the A36. The plane doesn't really add anything to the game and we are in need of better scenario aircraft; planes like the He-111, Do-17 and 217, Mosquito Mk IV, Ki-43 Oscar, and a myriad of others.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 16, 2011, 08:07:27 PM
Not really. If I want a dive-bombing pony, I'll just strap some 500 lbers on a D-pony and get the job done.

-1 for the A36. The plane doesn't really add anything to the game and we are in need of better scenario aircraft; planes like the He-111, Do-17 and 217, Mosquito Mk IV, Ki-43 Oscar, and a myriad of others.

The A-36 was a player in the North African Desert Campaign. And yes I agree with most of the planes you pointed out.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Guppy35 on May 16, 2011, 09:32:55 PM
This one with the big guns in the wings looks interesting.  :rock


What about that one. :headscratch:  :aok  :D  :bolt:

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/febc0bcfb2c18d4b7020449e1fa1320b.jpg)

Nah, if we need a Mustang with 4 cannons, we can always ask for the P51VLR(20mm)  :)
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: phatzo on May 16, 2011, 09:39:22 PM
Nah, if we need a Mustang with 4 cannons, we can always ask for the P51VLR(20mm)  :)
starts stopwatch
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: gyrene81 on May 16, 2011, 09:56:30 PM
I said divebomber and that none of them have the guns to strafe in any way shape or form. Also, most divebombers are very slow.
you really should bone up on some of this stuff before you make erroneous assertions...

p-47s in action...not only dog fighting but strafing ground targets
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=75277905547951258# (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=75277905547951258#)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=75277905547951258#docid=-6635752499311348219 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=75277905547951258#docid=-6635752499311348219)

p-51s..same thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjr8ZtEcrtE&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjr8ZtEcrtE&feature=related)

miscellaneous strafing runs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT4P9Lbl0E0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT4P9Lbl0E0&feature=related)

and they dropped bombs just like dive bombers...only faster
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Krusty on May 16, 2011, 09:57:03 PM
Nah, if we need a Mustang with 4 cannons, we can always ask for the P51VLR(20mm)  :)

Those were replaced with the P-47VLR, although they only had 2 underwing 20mms, the range made the P-51VLR obsolete and the performance at 42K was better than even the Ta152.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: lyric1 on May 16, 2011, 10:35:20 PM
Nah, if we need a Mustang with 4 cannons, we can always ask for the P51VLR(20mm)  :)
You bugger. :(
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Vulkan on May 16, 2011, 10:46:43 PM
I agree with the Axis iron. But, how about the A-36 we don't have any divebombers that can strafe. Also, It is faster than most divebombers in the game.  :salute :airplane:
On the point of axis iron how about the hs-129  :noid

back to the point, I wouldnt mind having this plane included.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Karnak on May 16, 2011, 11:20:05 PM
Hs129 would be nice.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 17, 2011, 06:17:04 AM
Hs129 would be nice.

I'd like to have that, too. The B-3 model had a 7.5cm anti-tank gun and average model had a tater tosser.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Rino on May 17, 2011, 07:14:28 AM
     Big gun envy?  :D
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 17, 2011, 06:11:53 PM
    Big gun envy?  :D

Not sure they held much ammo. They also held 8 50kg frag bombs. Less than the A-36 (rough estimation). The Hs129's C model addressed some poor performance problems. The pony's A model was the A-36 without the nose guns but had racks.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: LCADolby on May 18, 2011, 05:28:54 PM
This one with the big guns in the wings looks interesting.  :rock











What about that one. :headscratch:  :aok  :D  :bolt:

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/febc0bcfb2c18d4b7020449e1fa1320b.jpg)
:O Mustang III  :O I want.. I want..
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Tyrannis on May 18, 2011, 05:52:34 PM
Ah, got it.
I see it on this picture
(http://www.airdic.com/UserFiles/tomcat/A36Apache.jpg)

gotta admit, thats a sexy looking plane... :O
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 18, 2011, 07:16:50 PM
Not sure they held much ammo. They also held 8 50kg frag bombs. Less than the A-36 (rough estimation). The Hs129's C model addressed some poor performance problems. The pony's A model was the A-36 without the nose guns but had racks.

Forgot to say without dive breaks (of course)in the Pony's A model.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Raphael on May 18, 2011, 07:37:08 PM
wow this looks way better then the p51
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: 230G on May 18, 2011, 11:02:47 PM
  Why does there have to be a niche for a new plane? Seems silly to me to say "....we don't need the A-36 because the P-51D is better." Who cares? If it's only about having the best of each model, then maybe we should get rid of some planes. After all, we don't need the La-5 because the La-7 is faster an better armed. We don't need the the F4U1/1A because the C and D models are faster and carry more ordinance, and so on.
  Not everybody feels they have to fly the latest and greatest planes. Personally, I grow weary of seeing the same planes everywhere; P-51D's, Spit XVI's, La-7's etc. First time I went into the WW1 arena, it occurred to me that it should be renamed the DR1 arena because that's what EVERYONe was flying!!
   I think it's about the experience and not just flying a plane with which one can achieve the most kills.
   35Whelen
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Raphael on May 18, 2011, 11:10:09 PM
  Why does there have to be a niche for a new plane? Seems silly to me to say "....we don't need the A-36 because the P-51D is better." Who cares? If it's only about having the best of each model, then maybe we should get rid of some planes. After all, we don't need the La-5 because the La-7 is faster an better armed. We don't need the the F4U1/1A because the C and D models are faster and carry more ordinance, and so on.
  Not everybody feels they have to fly the latest and greatest planes. Personally, I grow weary of seeing the same planes everywhere; P-51D's, Spit XVI's, La-7's etc. First time I went into the WW1 arena, it occurred to me that it should be renamed the DR1 arena because that's what EVERYONe was flying!!
   I think it's about the experience and not just flying a plane with which one can achieve the most kills.
   35Whelen
:rock
HE111
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: AWwrgwy on May 18, 2011, 11:28:30 PM
:O Mustang III  :O I want.. I want..

Mustang III is already in game.

(http://22ndhellenicsqn.com/22SqnGallery/albums/Greek-Pilots-in-Foreign-Service/greece_aircraft_vassiliadis2.jpg)


wrongway
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: LCADolby on May 18, 2011, 11:44:10 PM
Mustang III is already in game.

(http://22ndhellenicsqn.com/22SqnGallery/albums/Greek-Pilots-in-Foreign-Service/greece_aircraft_vassiliadis2.jpg)


wrongway
Looked and searched as i might, I could not find my beloved 4x Hisooka armed Mustang III  :cry
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Karnak on May 19, 2011, 12:33:11 AM
Looked and searched as i might, I could not find my beloved 4x Hisooka armed Mustang III  :cry
That is because there was no such thing.  No Merlin engined Mustang carried 20mm cannons.  Sorry.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: LCADolby on May 19, 2011, 12:49:49 AM
That is because there was no such thing.  No Merlin engined Mustang carried 20mm cannons.  Sorry.
I read somewhere that there were over 100 Mustangs with 4 Hispano 20mm Cannons installed on ther wings.

Don't tell me it was on those Allison engined Mark Is that had birdcage canopys... oh noes  :cry
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: phatzo on May 19, 2011, 01:29:14 AM
stopwatch stopped
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: Karnak on May 19, 2011, 03:50:25 AM
Don't tell me it was on those Allison engined Mark Is that had birdcage canopys... oh noes  :cry
Mustang Mk Ia.

Allison engined indeed.
Title: Re: A-36 Apache
Post by: iron650 on May 19, 2011, 06:14:36 AM
  Why does there have to be a niche for a new plane? Seems silly to me to say "....we don't need the A-36 because the P-51D is better." Who cares? If it's only about having the best of each model, then maybe we should get rid of some planes. After all, we don't need the La-5 because the La-7 is faster an better armed. We don't need the the F4U1/1A because the C and D models are faster and carry more ordinance, and so on.
  Not everybody feels they have to fly the latest and greatest planes. Personally, I grow weary of seeing the same planes everywhere; P-51D's, Spit XVI's, La-7's etc. First time I went into the WW1 arena, it occurred to me that it should be renamed the DR1 arena because that's what EVERYONe was flying!!
   I think it's about the experience and not just flying a plane with which one can achieve the most kills.
   35Whelen

Yet we still have most of those planes because of their historical value. Plus, if we only had the LW models where will be the MW and EW? Also, the La-5 is a turner and runner instead of the running La-7. We have the P51-B and D. I fly the Spit VIII while some other people fly the Spit IX. I've seen the F4U-1 fly, the A, too. And I've flown other planes against those DR1s everybody flies. In fact I scared one off of my tail.