Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: vafiii on May 21, 2011, 08:21:30 AM
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Would it be possible to extend the off hours arena to include Friday and Saturday nights? When the squad ops or other events begin the main arenas are drained of almost 400 players leaving those of us left in the MA with little to do. Both the Orange and Blue arenas had very little going on last night. My squad mate and I spent a considerable amount of time sitting in the tower looking for a fight. Things picked up once the squad ops ended. This seems to be a common occurrence on Friday and Saturday nights. Thanks for your time.
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one big weekend arena sounds great,
however what happens to the guys who login at 4am EST through to 4pm EST? The arena numbers do not get above 200 if your lucky with a bare minimum of 50. On a big map this is bad news.
I guess the solution would be too move the arena switch for the weekend back a few hours.
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Both the Orange and Blue arenas had very little going on last night.
I was there and I agree.
The current numbers are quite low all across the board. What "we Euros" had to coper with for a long time is now hitting our friends across the pond too: An arena split and caps kicking in when the total number of players is way too low to support "healthy gameplay" on two large maps.
I know the split arenas had been introduced way back because the single arena was (in HTC's assessment) hampering growth. but the MA player numbers ain't growing for years now, and are currently even lower than they had been before the big split. Having numbers like 70 and 160 players for several hours on large maps isn't exactly fun. The basic conditions on which the split was based have changed.
My suggestion would be to keep the peak- / offhours system, but make it one single, large map peak hours arena. This would leave us with 180-400 players during the week on a large map, which is fine - After the Big Split in 2006 we did have numbers like these in each LW arena...
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To fix the game:
1. Go back to one arena until numbers grow and taper, then split again
2. Add more strategy, i.e. strats, factories, cities, with significant war value
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,312329.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,312329.0.html)
3. Keep track of war statistics in game to value this mode of game play
That'll be a good start.
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I think what the OP is saying is that he wants the "off-peak" arena to be up when FSO is running. Moving up the switch from 1AM EST to 11PM.
+1 :aok
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Yes please!
Big arena with few players - no action - no fun. Boring! - I will simply log off
Small arena with few players - some action - worth a try
Small arena with good numbers on line - plenty of action - Lots of fun.
I am not suggesting we should use just small Arena's. I am trying to illustrate that action is what I want and this means having plenty of people in an Arena, Big or Small. If you spread players too thin, sooner or later they may lose interest - well at least I do - but I come back later :).
HTC have the tough job of getting the balance right for everyone, whatever their reasons are for playing, but I do think it needs looking at because it seems to me I don't find the fights as much as I used to.
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To fix the game:
1. Go back to one arena until numbers grow and taper, then split again
2. Add more strategy, i.e. strats, factories, cities, with significant war value
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,312329.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,312329.0.html)
3. Keep track of war statistics in game to value this mode of game play
That'll be a good start.
+1 :aok :salute
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I think what the OP is saying is that he wants the "off-peak" arena to be up when FSO is running. Moving up the switch from 1AM EST to 11PM.
+1 :aok
change it like that then 11 EST is 8 pm PST on the west coast , close the arenas at 8pm west coast time for off hours arnea? are you nuts, thats prime time for westcoast players
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change it like that then 11 EST is 8 pm PST on the west coast , close the arenas at 8pm west coast time for off hours arnea? are you nuts, thats prime time for westcoast players
I meant just on FSO nights.
Not that it matters much to me, I live on the east coast and fly FSO. :devil
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Strats having more value is a good idea. Why are they all in one area anyway? Never made much sense to me. It's as the saying goes, putting all your eggs in one basket.
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To fix the game:
1. Go back to one arena until numbers grow and taper, then split again
2. Add more strategy, i.e. strats, factories, cities, with significant war value
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,312329.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,312329.0.html)
3. Keep track of war statistics in game to value this mode of game play
That'll be a good start.
Agree wholeheartedly and with enthusiasm on 1 and 2.
Dont care one way or the other on 3
Fights are getting harder to come by. the other night I logged on and couldnt find a single fight that was worth participating in in either arena. Even if I switched sides. there just wasnt much there worth doing.
Im finding myself logging off more and more often. Not because of lack of interest, or desire. But lack of any decent fights or in general anything worth doing.
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Strats having more value is a good idea. Why are they all in one area anyway? Never made much sense to me. It's as the saying goes, putting all your eggs in one basket.
Problem with strats is they currently have no value other then to get more bomber perks and to improve bomber ranking. but if you look at what most frequently and consistently get bombed by bombers. Its not the strat targets. Its the things that have a direct impact. FH's VH's, ammo and then towns.
Occasionally you see a run to these wonderfully rendered strat targets. But not very often. I dare venture to say that if people are going ot fly all that way to blow something up. They want it to have an impact on something. Score and perks and just for the hell of it alone just dont cut it.
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Yes please!
Big arena with few players - no action - no fun. Boring! - I will simply log off
Small arena with few players - some action - worth a try
Small arena with good numbers on line - plenty of action - Lots of fun.
I am not suggesting we should use just small Arena's. I am trying to illustrate that action is what I want and this means having plenty of people in an Arena, Big or Small. If you spread players too thin, sooner or later they may lose interest - well at least I do -
You nailed it! Big arenas with low numbers, you get bored and so do the 2 weekers trying to decide if it's worth it.
Same thing with spreading players too thin: a new player sees this and is not impressed. OTOH, if he sees 1 arena with double the players, it's far more impressive, and looks like this game has a big following/player base, so he whips out his wallet happily, like I did
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First I would like to say thanks to Cactus Cooler for the nice new splash screen.
Whenever I bring up anything in conversation, I have arguements from folks that say that numbers like those in Titanic Tuesdays causes lag. Is this speculation or is there real data, and reasoning behind HAVING to split the arenas that has to do with a limit on tolerable numbers versus game play degradation? My experience shows no difference on my end.
If arena split was done to promote growth alone, one might want to revisit the pros and cons. Just saying.... I am getting to the point that I still love the game, but I am much more willing to log off, or nod off zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Then again, I am frequently sleep deprived.
Keep in mind that the direction in upgrades and game changes, I feel are dead on target as far as I am concerned. I am just also concerned that average players are just not that willing to fly 15 minutes to get to some online versus action, to be greatly outnumbered (usually by 109K4s, La7s, Spit16s and the occasional F4U-4) where they ultimately go down in flames soon after their first turn.
For me, I can only hope that there is some thought for considering alternative motivators for game play.
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you guys talking about the arena sizes and numbers appear to not be looking at a bigger picture. just speaking to the late war arenas, on an "average" night during u.s. prime time the numbers occasionally peak around 500 players between the 2 late war arenas, sometimes more, sometimes less. on titanic tuesdays typically the numbers go between 325 and 375. once in a while it will get to 400 plus.
the high numbers is when the "horde this and horde that" b.s. talk starts happening and, as is obvious by this discussion when the numbers get low, the "can't find a..." talk starts up.
then there are the "change the map" and "this map is boring" b.s. that is ever prevalent regardless of how the arenas are split. some maps are "more fun" than others.
htc has made it fairly obvious the split arenas is not going to change so, the next best fix would be smaller terrains put in place during hours of low populations, even if the "off hours" times are changed, with the big terrains being used it won't change the way things play out especially during off peak hours. rather than butting heads with hitech to get the arena caps dropped among other gripes, why not petition for smaller terrains to be made and put into the rotation for off peak hours? just dropping the size of the existing terrains by 1/3 should be an improvement, 1/2 would probably be stretching things a bit.
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on titanic tuesdays typically the numbers go between 325 and 375. once in a while it will get to 400 plus.
I remember when it was 600+
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Currently we are not anywhere near those "horde" numbers that could had a negative impact on a large arena.
Right now, we have in both arenas combined as many players as we had years ago in each of the split LW arenas. So the numbers that had been perfectly acceptable back then would today be called too much and detrimental?
The basic premises have changed. We have a downward trend in MA numbers for years now. Lately we had less than 100 players scattered all over a large map in the lesser populated arena during peak time for extended times. This is definitely not good for gameplay.
The spilt arenas had been an adjustment for growing player numbers and were designed by HTC to remove obstacles for more growth. Now that the numbers of players online at any given time fell below a certain level, it may be time for more adjustments again.
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I remember when it was 600+
I did track the exact numbers online during a whole week in last September, which turned out to be the low point in player activity in my (then) 5 years of AH. In this tour, the numbers are about 20-40% lower even. Compared to the peak of AH shortly after the big arena split, we are seeing now about 50% less kills and played hours in the LWMa.
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Why not just enroll your squad or join another squad in FSO? :aok
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I think the two arenas are ok.
If I can't find the kind of fighting I prefer in one, I can usually find it in the other.
Also.....we have many who get bored if they have to fly more than one sector or climb above 5k feet or drive a tank further than a mile.
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Why not just enroll your squad or join another squad in FSO? :aok
Becasue...
- I do not want to fly in a squad
- FSO is only so ofter per month
- I don't have freedom of action in FSO
- FSO happens at 4AM
;)
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Becasue...
- I do not want to fly in a squad
- FSO is only so ofter per month
- I don't have freedom of action in FSO
- FSO happens at 4AM
;)
Although the gastropoda has crawled into areas that I tend to agree with above, since FSO occurs while I am at work. There are other events that are gleaming examples of what I believe this game could deliver to its MAIN audience. Even though I am not able to participate in FSO, which my squad is a part of, I am able to participate in practice / training that our squad indulges in from time to time, to get ready for the event. I must agree that organized operations are what have kept my enthusiasm high for the game for many a year.
It's summer vacation for loads of younger players already, but this is not the AH2 market in my opinion. "Qu..aaah" It is nice to have youth interested in the aircraft and the history of the era, but I find a ton of real life pilots, military personnel, and era history buffs to be the largest groups of individuals who have been dedicated to the game.
Perhaps a larger presence at air shows, or sponsorship for veteran affairs would yield better results than relying on the History Channel commercials to boost interest. (Disclaimer: I despise marketing ploys that offer something free with a purchase of something that costs way more and I have no real use for.) AH2s two week free offer, is gold. Once they have struck the hearts and minds of those who the game is truly suited for their numbers will increase again.
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I understand people have real life obligations, but I should of mentioned that I was referring to the original poster, who mentioned that he is logged on in the MAs during FSO.
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I understand people have real life obligations, but I should of mentioned that I was referring to the original poster, who mentioned that he is logged on in the MAs during FSO.
Obviously he doesn't want to play FSO, just like me :P
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Obviously he doesn't want to play FSO, just like me :P
That's to bad... You're both missing out. :salute :cheers:
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My squad has only 2 members so I believe we can't participate in FSO? Regardless, for the guys in the MA, Friday nights are extremely dull as the numbers are too low for 2 arenas while FSO is on. Seems like the off hours arena would be a good solution.
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some maps are "more fun" than others.
htc has made it fairly obvious the split arenas is not going to change so, the next best fix would be smaller terrains put in place during hours of low populations, even if the "off hours" times are changed, with the big terrains being used it won't change the way things play out especially during off peak hours. rather than butting heads with hitech to get the arena caps dropped among other gripes, why not petition for smaller terrains to be made and put into the rotation for off peak hours? just dropping the size of the existing terrains by 1/3 should be an improvement, 1/2 would probably be stretching things a bit.
This sounds like the best solution for now, using smaller maps to support the smaller number of players. :aok
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I want arena change to occur at least one hour later , or even better 2 hours.
Extending by hour CET this translates to midnight instead of 23:00.
1/2 of the Europeans log when arenas shift, reason is : It take up to an hour for the arenas to pick up speed again after closure.
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1/2 of the Europeans log when arenas shift, reason is : It take up to an hour for the arenas to pick up speed again after closure.
CC, I'm seeing that every day. Its good for my sleeping times tho :old:
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My squad has only 2 members so I believe we can't participate in FSO? Regardless, for the guys in the MA, Friday nights are extremely dull as the numbers are too low for 2 arenas while FSO is on. Seems like the off hours arena would be a good solution.
The 412th would be happy to extend an invitation to you and your squad for FSO.
If your interested please PM me.
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My squad has only 2 members so I believe we can't participate in FSO? Regardless, for the guys in the MA, Friday nights are extremely dull as the numbers are too low for 2 arenas while FSO is on. Seems like the off hours arena would be a good solution.
Some have considered moving up the minimum requirement for FSO participation. I have always argued against this. Currently in the 4-6 slot (smallest squad that can register) you can show up with as little as 2 pilots or as many as 8 and still be golden. I would not recommend signing up with only 2 active members, but if you were adamant you could actually do so. Small squads are quite welcome in FSO.
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Compared to the peak of AH shortly after the big arena split, we are seeing now about 50% less kills and played hours in the LWMa.
So it would seem the arena split, that was the subject of so much hot debate about how it was going to save the game, is actually killing it? Heresy! HTC is omnipotent when it comes to computer games and we mere mortals should keep our traps shut because they know what is best for the game.
Right :headscratch:
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Might be important to note that just because your signed up with a squad in FSO. Doesnt mean your in or have to hang with that squad in the MA's
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So it would seem the arena split, that was the subject of so much hot debate about how it was going to save the game, is actually killing it? Heresy! HTC is omnipotent when it comes to computer games and we mere mortals should keep our traps shut because they know what is best for the game.
Right :headscratch:
No! This is not in any way what I have said. I even mentioned that the game peaked after the split. The downward trend started much later, and nowhere did I indicate that the split was the reason for that :)
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The strats look cool.
I love driving to them and cruising through the residential areas and exploring the factories before I blow them up with 90+ rounds of HE ammo.
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Hi, I own a company that is losing money but I'm going to keep doing what I am doing just to drive the customers away....
You really believe that?
I'd say the person who has access to the books would be omnipotent in this situation.
wrongway
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Thanks Nefarious. Perhaps some day my squad mate and I will take you up on your offer.
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Thanks Nefarious. Perhaps some day my squad mate and I will take you up on your offer.
Let me know before the 28th and I can get you in for the June FSO.
New Terrain, Luftwaffe and Finnish vs Soviets... Always fun times :rock
http://www.ahevents.org/fso-current-next-event.html
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No! This is not in any way what I have said. I even mentioned that the game peaked after the split. The downward trend started much later, and nowhere did I indicate that the split was the reason for that :)
No Lusche, you didn't, and I didn't mean to imply that was your thinking. Sorry.
But, it does seem to indicate (at least to me) that the arena split - and the increased difficulty in finding a fight that it brought about - could be considered a cause for the decline if, as you say, numbers did start to drop shortly after the split. Sure they would climb for a little bit, as old customers gave the new system a chance and new customers continued to come on.
I might be wrong about why the numbers declined, and just interpreting things looking at it through my own lens. But your numbers do prove that splitting the arenas have not contributed to the game's growth.
I hate flying or driving a long way only to get killed and then have to do it again. And to me, that's what the split resulted in. I do enough commuting in real life. I want my fun to come with less work and tedium. My playing hours have sunk to just a couple per month and that's only because of squad night. I personally find AH incredibly dull these days. Some of that is undoubtedly due to the novelty wearing off, but Ithink a lot of it is due to the tedium factor. I'm obviously still interested in the game, I still visit the message boards. I just get so frustrated that HTC seems hellbent on taking something that is supposed to be fun and turning it into too much work to make it worthwhile. I am willing to put the time in to learn ACM - take a look at my hours of play a couple of years ago and you'll see. But I want some kind of mindless payoff for that time put in - and I'm interpreting those numbers to show I'm not alone.
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No Lusche, you didn't, and I didn't mean to imply that was your thinking. Sorry.
But, it does seem to indicate (at least to me) that the arena split - and the increased difficulty in finding a fight that it brought about - could be considered a cause for the decline if, as you say, numbers did start to drop shortly after the split. Sure they would climb for a little bit, as old customers gave the new system a chance and new customers continued to come on.
I might be wrong about why the numbers declined, and just interpreting things looking at it through my own lens. But your numbers do prove that splitting the arenas have not contributed to the game's growth.
I hate flying or driving a long way only to get killed and then have to do it again. And to me, that's what the split resulted in. I do enough commuting in real life. I want my fun to come with less work and tedium. My playing hours have sunk to just a couple per month and that's only because of squad night. I personally find AH incredibly dull these days. Some of that is undoubtedly due to the novelty wearing off, but Ithink a lot of it is due to the tedium factor. I'm obviously still interested in the game, I still visit the message boards. I just get so frustrated that HTC seems hellbent on taking something that is supposed to be fun and turning it into too much work to make it worthwhile. I am willing to put the time in to learn ACM - take a look at my hours of play a couple of years ago and you'll see. But I want some kind of mindless payoff for that time put in - and I'm interpreting those numbers to show I'm not alone.
you're missing some points...natural attrition, people get bored, especially the younger people...in a niche market, attrition can out pace new customers, especially in a depressed economy and right now the economy is bad everywhere...the last graphics update caused a bit of a stir...and then some people just look for an excuse to be angry because they can't deal with change, any excuse can be used to justify the proverbial "last straw", graphics update, eny, arena caps, gv changes, etc...
trying to second guess what is really happening when you do not have all the facts...well, it's not priceless.
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No Lusche, you didn't, and I didn't mean to imply that was your thinking. Sorry.
It's ok, I'm just a bit touchy on these subjects as occasionally some kind of rumors / myths start to spread from my "work" , like "Lusche has proven that the number of subscriptions ...." where in reality I just showed data on kills, played hours or number of pilot ID's. ;)
But, it does seem to indicate (at least to me) that the arena split - and the increased difficulty in finding a fight that it brought about - could be considered a cause for the decline if, as you say, numbers did start to drop shortly after the split. Sure they would climb for a little bit, as old customers gave the new system a chance and new customers continued to come on.
They didn't even drop "shortly" after the split. According to HTC the split was very successful in terms of business (=subscriptions), and according to my own data it was not hurting player numbers at all. The downward trend started at least 2 years later. If the split had anything to do with that in a direct way, it should had happened way earlier. I had always disliked the split, but I have never found any data or fact to prove that the split itself has been bad for the game (at that time, that is ;))
And to expand on the difficulty to find a fight: That had not been any problem back then, despite the split, because we had much higher player numbers, which had really been high enough to support gameplay in two arenas (I'm talking about LW exclusively, other arenas are a different topic). In fact, the high player numbers had been the reason to split the arenas in the first place.
However (and here comes my personal opinion again) the parameters have changed. While two LW arenas worked fine (keeping a few personal grudges of mine aside) with the numbers back then, things start to get non satisfying when the numbers declined. One thing is the absolute number of players in a given arena: While there may be a maximum limit for "healthy" gameplay, there is also a negative impact when the numbers / the player density is getting too low.
The other thing is the dynamic process of filling up an arena after caps kicked in (old system until tour 130), respectively offpeak to peak arena format changeover. With the old system, it once took about 1 hour for both arenas getting steam again. Annoying, but acceptable in my book. But When numbers started to get lower, this process was taking longer and longer, as the rigid cap system did not adapt. At the end, it could have taken up to four hours instead of one.
The new offpeak / peak hours system was a (necessary) step to adjust for that and a big improvement over the old system.
But now we seem to witness the same effect we Euros had to endure under the old system again, just at peak time: With total numbers having sunk again, it's getting longer and longer for the second LW arena to fill up. And thats' why I am now for getting back to a single peak arena for the time being. The old split system was introduced to enable growth and healthy play. But we have now roughly 50% of the players online we used to be. It's not longer about splitting 500 players into a 300 and a 200 players arena... we see 250 players splitting into one 190 and one 60 player arena.
And at least in my book, 60 players on a large map offers much less opportunities and variable gameplay than putting all those 250 in a single large map arena. Not only because of the lesser player density (= hunting single cons, battles dying quickly when facing resitance because it'S easier to strike elsewhere), but also because it's much more difficult to organize the big stuff like "epic" strat bomber missions.
:old:
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just speaking to the late war arenas, on an "average" night during u.s. prime time the numbers occasionally peak around 500 players between the 2 late war arenas, sometimes more, sometimes less. on titanic tuesdays typically the numbers go between 325 and 375. once in a while it will get to 400 plus
I remember when it was 600+
At this very moment (3:30 am my local time), we have 401 players in Titanic Tuesday. Last September (21st to be exact), we had 525 players at the same time. And this September had been the month with lowest activity since I had joined AH (Tour 70).
This is not to create panic, or to blame the split (or any other single item) for anything, but just to illustrate that the parameters have indeed changed. Please see the following chart in the same light:
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9288/clipboard01wyi.jpg)
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you're missing some points...natural attrition, people get bored, especially the younger people...in a niche market, attrition can out pace new customers, especially in a depressed economy and right now the economy is bad everywhere...the last graphics update caused a bit of a stir...and then some people just look for an excuse to be angry because they can't deal with change, any excuse can be used to justify the proverbial "last straw", graphics update, eny, arena caps, gv changes, etc...
trying to second guess what is really happening when you do not have all the facts...well, it's not priceless.
I hadn't missed the people get bored part, since the gist of what I was saying is that flying around long distances looking for a fight in half filled arenas is, uh, boring - even for a fogey like me :old:.
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We need to go back to one big arena. Sorry, but that's what most find fun...
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We need to go back to one big arena. Sorry, but that's what most find fun...
Evidently not for everyone. Many think more choices are better.
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Another idea which would lead to more fights would be switching from 3 teams (Bish, Rooks, Knits) to 2. I'd be willing to switch to another side to make it happen.