Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: vNUCKS on May 22, 2011, 12:04:55 PM
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http://www.mediafire.com/?w33sxx7pb3eibeq (http://www.mediafire.com/?w33sxx7pb3eibeq)
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looked typical to me... Did someone complain?
Oh and IN of course
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Nucks, did you look at the film?
By the time you got to him on the first merge you had the speed and E advantage. First two passes I would call a HO attempt, I wouldn't have fired on either pass. He then out looped you and you ran. Hence the HO and run comments. 3rd pass looked like another HO attempt that I wouldn't have fired on. You then "extend" 5k to come back for a forth HO attempt (which by my guess is when you piloted wounded him), but final you make a couple of maneuvers to drop in on him and kill him with a crossing shot.
In each one of the HO attempts you could have avoided "going for the shot" in favor of a maneuver (like you you finally did) to set up a good shot for a kill. That's the difference between "fighting" and "HOing".
But like he said, do what ever you want, it's your nickel.
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Do you think extending 5k is enough? ;)
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that was a cool film.
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One thing I noticed is, you tend to fly gun piper right on him. That will present you with only front quarter shot. When He try to engage a rolling scissor at 1:31 you have speed. Instead of going for the shot straight away by keeping the cross hairs on him, pull wing level in the vertical, locate him in your top/rear view, rotate your lift vector and drop back on him. Wash, rince and repeat until he runs out of E. Or try to lag turn him to saddle him up. at 3:01, your 100mph faster and dropping on him, yet you fail to capitalize on your E advantage and pull for a gun solution. Roll wing level and pull straight up. locate him and drop back on his 6. At 4:38, He chandel right to drop back to you. Your still flying gun piper on him. that leave you with a front quarter shot. Only then you decide to use vertical to gain a position on him. Another thing is that you extend waaaay too much. There is only 2 of you. In that situation, commit to the fight, be aggressive. Drain him out of his E and drop in for the kill. You extented to reset when you didn't need to. All you were doing is cut him some slack so he can try and rebuild his E bank. You had the advantage from the get go.
Pull straight up and rotate your lift vector. When he gets around 800, it's time to drop back. You shouldn't get much further than 1.2k out. That wont leave him no choice but to keep defending until he runs out of space. Don't stop until he's on the deck.
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grab him by the ear and drag him through the cactus.
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Nucks, did you look at the film?
By the time you got to him on the first merge you had the speed and E advantage. First two passes I would call a HO attempt, I wouldn't have fired on either pass. He then out looped you and you ran. Hence the HO and run comments. 3rd pass looked like another HO attempt that I wouldn't have fired on. You then "extend" 5k to come back for a forth HO attempt (which by my guess is when you piloted wounded him), but final you make a couple of maneuvers to drop in on him and kill him with a crossing shot.
In each one of the HO attempts you could have avoided "going for the shot" in favor of a maneuver (like you you finally did) to set up a good shot for a kill. That's the difference between "fighting" and "HOing".
But like he said, do what ever you want, it's your nickel.
can i send you a beer? lol thats what i tried to tell him. the only reason he got me in the end is because i was PW and blacked out. i was also very low on fuel and wasnt going to make it back to land anyway.
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can i send you a beer? lol thats what i tried to tell him. the only reason he got me in the end is because i was PW and blacked out. i was also very low on fuel and wasnt going to make it back to land anyway.
I'll take Sam Adams, and I'll PM you the address :D
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well at least its a good beer :aok
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http://www.mediafire.com/?w33sxx7pb3eibeq (http://www.mediafire.com/?w33sxx7pb3eibeq)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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What is the current definition of a HO? The first two attempts looked like front quarter shots as grumpy did not have a shot at Vnux. Grumpy pulled up and gave Vnux the shots and he took them. Very tough shots to make but I don't think they were HOs
PuppetZ thanks for your analysis as I haven't been playing much and it's good to read how other people would handle certain situations.
Cheers,
gus
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Gusman, to me the F6 maneuver to AVOID the HO, the la did nothing to avoid to HO. The only time the La didn't try for the HO was when he maneuvered above the F6 and dropped in for the crossing shot that finish of the kill.
It doesn't take 2 to HO as we see here, but if all your doing is pointing your nose at the other guys it's still a HO. In this case the F6 almost avoided them all.
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Gusman, to me the F6 maneuver to AVOID the HO, the la did nothing to avoid to HO. The only time the La didn't try for the HO was when he maneuvered above the F6 and dropped in for the crossing shot that finish of the kill.
It doesn't take 2 to HO as we see here, but if all your doing is pointing your nose at the other guys it's still a HO. In this case the F6 almost avoided them all.
Ok, I'll view the film again. Should Grumpy have come more over the top on the first merge? I guess that would depend on how much E he had. I'll check that too
Thanks Fugitive :salute
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Ok, I'll view the film again. Should Grumpy have come more over the top on the first merge? I guess that would depend on how much E he had. I'll check that too
Thanks Fugitive :salute
IMHO I think Grumpy would have been better off turning a little nose low to preserve speed and it would have left with more post merge options. I think Nucks was a little close to do a nose high turn and merge because he didn't have enough horizontal separation to gain speed after the turn. As is Grumpy was doing about 235-240 at the merge and Nucks was able to cut the corner and get a head on attack which Grumpy passed on (I think he could have gotten guns on him if he chose to). A nose low turn would have still left him with 300mph on the dial and he would have more options post-merge.
*edit*
Quick edit, I'm not commenting on the validity of head on attacks in this post. :)
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Grumpy was at a disadvantage from the start. The best he could do was to push for over shoots and hope to get a good snap shot off. He wasn't high enough to gain back any E with a dive, the LA should be able to out turn him, and with the E advantage could have taken his time wearing him down.
At least it would have been a fight, which Grumpy was happy to go for, and the LA was not.
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interesting to read everyones thoughts on what could have been done differently by me. I honestly just get in and fly LOL never really be taught any ACM, just fly by the seat of my pants and have learned from mistakes over the years. Im always down for a good fight, win or lose....
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Ok, I'll view the film again. Should Grumpy have come more over the top on the first merge?
Here is something I recorded the other day during a squad training night with BigRat in the TA.
http://www.mediafire.com/?wd4cgvp16gfpgr1
Same kind of situation. He's slow(200ish). I got a lot of smash (370ish). No way I can turn with him. If I just keep the nose on him I'll get only a very difficult snap shot (or if he start his break early, a front quarter shot since he'll have time to haul the nose around). Now a 1:29 he breaks left, instead of simply trying to follow his turn. I'll go up in a sort of vertical extension/high yo-yo. Since I go up, it leave me time to analyse what he's doing, but it don't allow him much horizontal separation so the pressure is still on him. Since I simply extend up, I bank my speed and make a low G turn over the top right back down on him. As soon as I see that I can't follow his break I pull up. After a few of those, I'm able to draw sufficient lead for a good raking shot. Notice that at 2:28 I get a little greedy for a shot that isn't really there and blow some E trying to get a gun solution (small error on my part, but I still have E on him so it's not too bad). Even then I simply pull back again to regain position. I'll get my shot on the next pass as by then we're getting pretty much equal speed so I can saddle for the shot.
2 things I'd like to note about this
1-Noticed how the fight became stationary. By going up like that, I commit to try and kill that 1 guy. That leaves me open to all other ennemy around since my horizontal speed is near nil. Usually not a good thing in multi-plane engagement. In that case, long extension and speed retention will increase your survival rate. Not that anyone care about this anyway...
2-This will work best with an enemy you have E aplenty over. If your near co-E, better to lag turn him or go more oblique on the pull back into your yo-yo.
Now about the fight between Nucks an grumpy. That strategy would have worked very well against his F6F. The LA5 is a small, nimble machine with a lot of engine power, while the F6F is a heavy crate with a barely sufficient engine. Since it's only you and him, You could have gone for more complex maneuver beside just trying to get guns on him every single pass. And given the situation, I don't think grumpy could have done much more. He suckered him in a rolling scissor from which nucks used his engine to pull out from. Nothing he could ahve done would have saved him on that one I believe.
IMVHO
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i personally think i out flew him hands down until he got his PW hoe shot... IMHO i kept trying to fly home due to fuel when he extended but he kept coming back. I wasnt fully into the fight. If I would have kept full into it i think the outcome would have been different.
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Yeah, I know how you feel. Happen to me all the time. It's very rare i'll run into someone that will not try to HO me on every face to face merge(and when I do I get sweaty palm cause that usually means I'm in trouble). I ran into a la7 the other day that tried just that. After 3 merge(on which, I might add, he blew any chance for a good maneuver by trying to line up a shot), he decided he had enough and ran. Couldn't catch him. These things are too fast. I'm in no way an uber stick or something. I'm beggining to get a good grasp of of ACM tough. Understand, I do not imply by any of my comments that your no good or whatever. I was merely analysing the film presented to us by nucks. I gave him advice based on it. You have to admit that things were not presenting themselves so good at the start of the fight. You could have gained the uper hand, and in fact you made a pretty good attempt at a rolling scissor to which Nucks did take the bait but not long enough for you to reel him in. It's my opinion that it would have been very difficult to turn the table on a LA given the situation. And had he used the technique I described, it would have made life pretty hard for you real quick.
With all due respect.
Edit : I just realised I said you 'suckered' him in a rolling scissor in my previous post. Bad choice of word. Sorry. read it as 'drew' him in a rolling scissor.
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Quote from: grumpy37 on May 22, 2011, 09:25:33 PM
can i send you a beer? lol thats what i tried to tell him. the only reason he got me in the end is because i was PW and blacked out. i was also very low on fuel and wasnt going to make it back to land anyway.
I'll take Sam Adams, and I'll PM you the address
your over 18 right. unless you live in portland or. its leagal here for a 18 year boy to suck down a Sam Adams
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LOL I don't remember when I was 18. I need a calculator to figure out how old I am. I was drinking beer legally before they were MAKING Sam Adams!
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<S> puppetz I dont take anything personally in this "game" I do appreciate everyones comments on this. I was very surprised to see that he actually posted the film LOL Ive been playing this for 10 years or so off and on and still learn more every day.
Im also impressed this didnt get flamed like every other thread like this. I also hope nucks has come back to read some of this. I was antagonizing him more that anything cause I had already shot him down a few times and I knew he was out for revenge.....
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Ok, a little background here on what was going on. I was the sole defender on several attacks at this field (note the text regarding me successfully defending the base solo), and despite at least one victory every sortie, I was eventually picked each time. On this sortie, I upped against 2 attackers after being damaged on takeoff and ended sortie as the vulcher died to either ack or auger. There were still two attackers, and as I inned on Grumpy I wasn't quite sure if the other attacker had intentions of joining the fight. As a result, I pressed my attack very hard on Grumpy hoping to better my odds should the other attacker join the fight. Upon realizing it was just he and I extended and re-inned for the kill.
For those of you who claim I had the advantage as the engagement began, I would argue that it started with me at 0mph on the runway against multiple attackers, and had been doing so for some time. Upon reviewing the film, I admit I'm a little perplexed as why Grumpy's wingman left him hanging. My post was in response to Grumpy's messages to me, claiming the only attack I had was a HO, and that I killed him during a blackout while PW'd. Obviously, under perceived duress against multiple attackers, I will HO, and frankly few wouldn't with cannons vs. 50 cal. However, upon noting the fight had become 1v1 my tactics changed. One should also note that Grumpy was in a high G turn when I finished him, obviously he wasn't blacked out, and my attacks consisted of more than HOing.
I posted the film to set the record straight.
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<S> puppetz I dont take anything personally in this "game" I do appreciate everyones comments on this. I was very surprised to see that he actually posted the film LOL Ive been playing this for 10 years or so off and on and still learn more every day.
Im also impressed this didnt get flamed like every other thread like this. I also hope nucks has come back to read some of this. I was antagonizing him more that anything cause I had already shot him down a few times and I knew he was out for revenge.....
Grumpy... the other 6 dwarves were better lookin' :neener:
How's that? Feel better now? hehe
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Sam Adams Boston Lager is all I drink Fugi :cheers
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Grumpy... the other 6 dwarves were better lookin' :neener:
How's that? Feel better now? hehe
Much better shuffle... thank You
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I posted the film to set the record straight.
Dont worry about "the record". Get out there and enjoy your time online. Thats what matters.
And besides, you got a kill on grumpy :old: and that is never a bad thing. Rejoice! :x
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Well, as Grumpy points out, he had several picks, err kills, against me about which I made no complaint. However when he goes down he seems all to ready to not only complain, but lie about how he lost. Just wanted everyone to know who they were listening to...
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Grumpy was at a disadvantage from the start. The best he could do was to push for over shoots and hope to get a good snap shot off. He wasn't high enough to gain back any E with a dive, the LA should be able to out turn him, and with the E advantage could have taken his time wearing him down.
At least it would have been a fight, which Grumpy was happy to go for, and the LA was not.
I had upped repeatedly against superior numbers, how do you conclude I was not up to a fight?
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I had upped repeatedly against superior numbers, how do you conclude I was not up to a fight?
Because you continually HOed. You weren't looking for a fight, just a kill, you said it yourself.
<snip> There were still two attackers, and as I inned on Grumpy I wasn't quite sure if the other attacker had intentions of joining the fight. As a result, I pressed my attack very hard on Grumpy hoping to better my odds should the other attacker join the fight. Upon realizing it was just he and I extended and re-inned for the kill.<end-snip>
Essentially your saying "I went for every HO I could get to kill him off before I could get picked again" right?
So to me it looked like you didn't care about a fight, just a kill.
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Obviously, under perceived duress against multiple attackers, I will HO
Some would not find this to be obvious.
- oldman
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"Obviously, under perceived duress against multiple attackers, I will HO"
I guess im honored to know that my single F6F all by myself put you in such duress you felt the need to ho.... I will never quesion you again. :ahand
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Well, I finally watched the film and I would have taken every single shot vNUCKS took without hesitation.
Grumpy, don't get me wrong here, but every merge you took was sloppy and left yourself open for those front quarter shots he took along with the shot that he took when you came over the top on one of your loops. If you leave that much separation, at the merge, with me, you will get raked from stem to stern under those conditions.
If vNUCKS had been defending that base from multiples, his frame of mind, and so would mine have been, was to dispatch ASAP. That was not the time for a 1-up dueling match.
Also, there was another F6F in the immediate area when the fight first started ... 75ablahblah. I would have been thinking that the other F6F was looking to drop ord before he circled back around to take me out while fighting Grumpy so dispatching Grumpy ASAP would have been my top priority.
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In the future, I suppose I should limit my tactics to those approved to those tactics only approved by the picking princesses. Shame on me...
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LMAO at picking princess..... Now i see what im really dealing with. Its been an interesting thread to say the least, good luck nucks
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LMAO at picking princess..... Now i see what im really dealing with. Its been an interesting thread to say the least, good luck nucks
Well Hero, you mentioned your several recent previous kills of me of which I was hunting for revenge, do you care to post some film of how you so nobly and bravely earned them?
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A vGuy that actually (rather badly) attempted to fight? Anyone call the Weather Channel to see if Hell froze over?
ack-ack
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(http://operatorchan.org/st/src/st8759_I%20see%20you%20troll.jpg)
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A vGuy that actually (rather badly) attempted to fight? Anyone call the Weather Channel to see if Hell froze over?
ack-ack
Nice 2 cents worth, yet I saved my base as was my objective, won accolades from my countrymen in doing so, and won the fight. I suppose I owe you change...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Xbos3W2jQ
For those of you who would rather see it on youtube than your film viewer
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the only reason he got me in the end is because i was PW and blacked out.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Whining about an unfair advantage that the other guy created by shooting you. That's a good one!
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Read the text buffer after the fight, he claims to be straight, level and blacked out when I got my kill shot... then watch the film again, lol.
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Well Hero, you mentioned your several recent previous kills of me of which I was hunting for revenge, do you care to post some film of how you so nobly and bravely earned them?
Exactly ... he did mention "previous kills" ... he never mentioned the word "pick" ... that was your interpretation, same as his interpretation of you HOing.
I have flown with Grumpy and have found him to be a good pilot, a good guy, and always game for the "fight" ... if he picked you, then there was a definite need for the pick.
As you mentioned, they were attacking the base, most likely for the capture. If that was the circumstance, and I was in the area, I would pick you 'til your eyes bleed and think nothing of it, just the same as I would have taken the same deflection shots that you took while fighting Grumpy and thought nothing of it.
If his mission was "capture", then the necessary actions must be taken for a capture, the same as the actions needed when defending.
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The point I was making was that I had made no complaint about how I died, he had his objective, I had mine, and they both involved shooting the other one down. On the other hand, his defeat immediately involved him pm'ing with objections, and frankly an outright fabrication as to how the fight ended. About the only message you'll get from me after shooting me down is a salute, unless of course you've really impressed me, and then I may send a compliment via pm.
My "Hero" question was to highlight the double standard, as I wonder what his reaction would be had I shot him down in the same manner as he had me.
I get HO'd, picked, collided with, vulched and ganged all the time, and I assure I don't like it any more than the next guy, but it is my choice to place myself in "virtual" harms way. When I get "beat", it's not what my opponent did that caused it, it's what I did wrong that caused it, and complaining to my opponent about it seems like a classless and clueless reaction. Instead, I film my sorties, study the film, and change what I do...
on the other hand, I guess I could just pm everyone that shoots me down and see if they'll change what they do...
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So on this last film that you posted here what have you learned?
Most likely that you must aim better while HOing an opponent. :devil
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on the other hand, I guess I could just pm everyone that shoots me down and see if they'll change what they do...
No ... keep doing what you're doing ... you will last longer that way ... getting aggravated to the point where you feel the need to PM someone is a sign that you are taking this "game" way to serious.
PMing or berating people on open channel has never solved anything from what I have seen.
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PMing or berating people on open channel has never solved anything from what I have seen.
No, but the small minded people that PM hate or rant on open like spurned drunkards is what gives the game such a broad spectrum of emotional color and appealing disunified character overall. Took me years to learn this :old:
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No, but the small minded people that PM hate or rant on open like spurned drunkards is what gives the game such a broad spectrum of emotional color and appealing disunified character overall. Took me years to learn this :old:
He has now reached the point of Yeagermeister :D