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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: iron650 on May 28, 2011, 08:02:01 PM

Title: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 28, 2011, 08:02:01 PM
The Crusader cruiser tank MkI.

Characteristics:
Armament of the Mk I: QF 2 pdr (40 mm) 110 rounds
1 Besa machine gun
4,950 rounds
Nuffield Nuffield Liberty Mark II, 27 litre V-12 petrol engine
340 bhp (254 kW) at 1,500 rpm
Transmission: Nuffield constant mesh
4 speed and reverse through Wilson epicyclic steering unit
Powerplant: 17.2hp
Ground clearance: 1ft 4in
Fuel: 110 Imperial gallons in 3 fuel tanks
Range: 200mi
Speed: 26mph (on road)
15mph (off road)

The Crusader served in the North African Campaign. They replaced the old Matilda tanks the British used. Plus, how many British GVs we have? Also, add the M3 Grant and the Panzer IV Special then there can be GVs in the Desert campaign scenarios. It provide more firepower than the M8. HE rounds were rather limited to the tank, though. They were replaced later (with the MkII and MkIII in service too) by Americans in the Invasion of Italy.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/IWM-MH-9292-Crusader.jpg)

sorry about the turret's visibility its AUX turret is in can someone get one without its Aux turret?

Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: lyric1 on May 28, 2011, 08:23:39 PM
Long over due for some British armour. :aok
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Tyrannis on May 28, 2011, 09:32:50 PM
The Crusader cruiser tank MkI.

Characteristics:
Armament of the Mk I: QF 2 pdr (40 mm) 110 rounds
1 Besa machine gun
4,950 rounds
Nuffield Nuffield Liberty Mark II, 27 litre V-12 petrol engine
340 bhp (254 kW) at 1,500 rpm
Transmission: Nuffield constant mesh
4 speed and reverse through Wilson epicyclic steering unit
Powerplant: 17.2hp
Ground clearance: 1ft 4in
Fuel: 110 Imperial gallons in 3 fuel tanks
Range: 200mi
Speed: 26mph (on road)
15mph (off road)

The Crusader served in the North African Campaign. They replaced the old Matilda tanks the British used. Plus, how many British GVs we have? Also, add the M3 Grant and the Panzer IV Special then there can be GVs in the Desert campaign scenarios. It provide more firepower than the M8. HE rounds were rather limited to the tank, though. They were replaced later (with the MkII and MkIII in service too) by Americans in the Invasion of Italy.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/IWM-MH-9292-Crusader.jpg)

sorry about the turret's visibility its AUX turret is in can someone get one without its Aux turret?


i feel we need more early war tanks. the t34&m8 are the only real "tanks" in early war. if this tank comes, then the m3 LEE should come with it. along with the pnzer III
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: PFactorDave on May 28, 2011, 09:34:01 PM
Long over due for some British armour. :aok

Isn't the Firefly a British variant of the Sherman? 
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: lyric1 on May 28, 2011, 11:27:49 PM
Isn't the Firefly a British variant of the Sherman? 
Yes but not a true British tank.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: BaldEagl on May 29, 2011, 12:05:07 AM
The Crusader was pretty lightly armored in comparison to the Matilda which was a bear.  Both deserve a place in the game as do the Churchill, Cromwell and Valentine.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 29, 2011, 06:20:11 AM
i feel we need more early war tanks. the t34&m8 are the only real "tanks" in early war. if this tank comes, then the m3 LEE should come with it. along with the pnzer III

Why not? The Crusader fought before the lend-lease act against Rommel.

Isn't the Firefly a British variant of the Sherman? 

They change the recoil and lock mechanisms and mounted a 17lber in it.

Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Rino on May 29, 2011, 07:39:37 AM
i feel we need more early war tanks. the t34&m8 are the only real "tanks" in early war. if this tank comes, then the m3 LEE should come with it. along with the pnzer III

     Wondering how the M-8 makes "tank" status.  It's been an armored car in every book I ever read about it.

(http://www.warwheels.net/images/m8houndmidatlairmusMR1.jpg)
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: 321BAR on May 29, 2011, 08:17:52 AM
I say the Crusader II and Crusader III and even the Crusader IV over the MK I
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: skorpion on May 29, 2011, 09:41:03 AM
+1

we need a few british tanks here.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 29, 2011, 11:05:55 AM
I say the Crusader II and Crusader III and even the Crusader IV over the MK I

Bar we have a Spit Mk I and many prefer the IX and VII. The Crusader I is the same. We could get the early model then get later ones.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SmokinLoon on May 29, 2011, 11:31:48 AM
AH does not have anything in the 50-57mm range.  Both the Panzer III (5cm KwK 39 L/60) and Valentine Mk IX (57mm/6pdr Mk IX L/50) would offer good options to fit that gap.  The Valentine's speed would be 20mph (same as Firefly) and the Panzer III would be 25mph (same as Panzer IV, Tiger, etc).  

Or, if AH is looking to keep the playing field as level as possible, the British Cromwell would be their best bet.  It would be no more than the US M4/75mm though.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: StokesAk on May 29, 2011, 11:42:54 AM
I say the Crusader II and Crusader III and even the Crusader IV over the MK I

Well I say M18
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: 321BAR on May 29, 2011, 11:48:28 AM
Bar we have a Spit Mk I and many prefer the IX and VII. The Crusader I is the same. We could get the early model then get later ones.
cant really kill much with a 2 pounder....
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: 321BAR on May 29, 2011, 11:57:18 AM
Well I say M18
hey i have an M-18 lite now :noid
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: RTHolmes on May 29, 2011, 12:04:03 PM
do it as the version with the QF 6-pounder and we can use the same gun on the M3 and Mossie too ... ;)
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: waystin2 on May 29, 2011, 12:42:09 PM
+1 to British Tanks! :aok
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Scotty55OEFVet on May 29, 2011, 02:36:34 PM
Long over due for some British armour. :aok

Tank, Cruiser, Mk VIII, Cromwell (A27M)
 
Type-Cruiser tank
Place of origin-United Kingdom
Service history-In service 1944 - present
Wars-World War II, 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Korean War
Production history:
Designer Leyland, then Birmingham Railway Carriage and Wagon Company from 1942[1]
Manufacturer-Nuffield Organisation
Number built-4,016
Specifications:
Weight 27.6 long tons (28 tonnes)
Length 20 ft 10 in (6.35 m)
Width 9 ft 6˝ in (2.908 m)
Height 8 ft 2 in (2.49 m)
Crew 5 (Commander, gunner, loader, driver, front gunner)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Armour-3 inches (76 mm)
Primary armament-OQF 75 mm
Secondary
armament 2 x 7.92 mm Besa machine gun
Engine Rolls-Royce Meteor V12 petrol 600 horsepower (450 kW)
Power/weight-21.4 hp/tonne
Transmission-Z.5 gearbox (five forward and one reverse gear) driving rear sprockets
Suspension-Improved Christie
Ground clearance-16 inches
Fuel capacity-110 gallons + optional 30 gallon auxiliary
Operational range 170 miles (270 km) on roads, 80 miles cross country[2]
Speed-40 miles per hour (64 km/h)
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Scotty55OEFVet on May 29, 2011, 02:41:42 PM
I say the Crusader II and Crusader III and even the Crusader IV over the MK I

 :aok

Still waiting for the Hellcat Post BAR!
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 29, 2011, 04:44:54 PM
Looked up the Cromwell saw service in small numbers on D-day. It was chiefly used for training.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Tyrannis on May 29, 2011, 05:15:21 PM
what about the churchill?
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 29, 2011, 05:21:04 PM
Moves at 15mph and was used in the Second Battle at El Alamein as support it even got a Tiger I. Operated in Italy closely supporting troops. Saw fighting in the Low Countries. 
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SmokinLoon on May 29, 2011, 09:36:44 PM
The Churchill would be slower than a 7 year itch.  The Firefly moves at 20mph and that feels like you crawling compared to the other tanks.  The 15mph Churchill would be cannon fodder for enemy tanks because A> it can not escape, and B> it would either sport a 57mm/6 pdr or a US 75mm main gun.  Not cool either way vs other tanks.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: LThunderpocket on May 29, 2011, 10:06:50 PM
for what?killin jeeps.40mm is hardly better then m8
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: AWwrgwy on May 30, 2011, 02:28:55 AM
The Churchill would be slower than a 7 year itch.  The Firefly moves at 20mph and that feels like you crawling compared to the other tanks.  The 15mph Churchill would be cannon fodder for enemy tanks because A> it can not escape, and B> it would either sport a 57mm/6 pdr or a US 75mm main gun.  Not cool either way vs other tanks.

I thought I read somewhere that it was much heavier armored than its contemporaries.

IE: A really slow Tiger with a weak gun. The same 75mm used in the M-4.


wrongway
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: BaldEagl on May 30, 2011, 03:02:05 AM
Here's production numbers (over 1000 produced) on British tanks and years produced:

Comet I (A34)   Great Britan   1944-1945   1186
Mk VIII, Cromwell (A27M)   Great Britan   1943-1944   3066
Churchill Mk II      Great Britan   1941-1945   1127
Churchill Mk IV      Great Britan   1941-1945   1622
Churchill Mk VII     Great Britan   1941-1945   1600
Churchill Mk VIII    Great Britan   1941-1945   1600
Mk VI Crusader (A15)   Great Britan   1940-1943   5300
Valentine   Great Britan   1939-1945   8275
Matilda II (A12)   Great Britan   1937-1943   2987
Mk V, Covenanter (A13 Mk III)   Great Britan      1700

As a comparison here's top ten overall production during WWII (excluding Japan):

T-34   USSR   1940-1944   34780
M4 Sherman   USA   1942-1945   33403
T-34-85   USSR   1944-1945   22559
M3A3 Stuart   USA   1941-1942   13859
SU-76   USSR   1942-1945   12671
M4 (76) Sherman   USA   1944-1945   10883
M5   USA   1941-1943   8851
StuG III F-G   Germany   1942-1945   8593
Valentine   Great Britan   1939-1945   8275
T-70   USSR   1942-1943   8226
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 30, 2011, 06:16:23 AM
BaldEagl thanks for the charts. But didn't when the Americans (and during Lend-Lease) came into the war Britain used mostly American weapons and tanks?
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: BaldEagl on May 30, 2011, 09:57:42 AM
BaldEagl thanks for the charts. But didn't when the Americans (and during Lend-Lease) came into the war Britain used mostly American weapons and tanks?

Not really.  The Brits were pretty self sufficient.  The most noatable exceptions were the Firefly (Modified M4) and the Honey (M3).  IIRC a lot of the British Funnies were also based on the M4 chassis but not all of them.  Regardless the Funnies were low production specialty vehicles (flamethrowers, minesweepers, etc.).

Most of the British armor was deployed in Africa fighting Rommell.  Again, not all.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 30, 2011, 10:22:51 AM
The 15mph Churchill would be cannon fodder

Take an M8 into a battle and you'll know what cannon fodder is. The Churchill and Crusader can end up like the M8 (improperly used) or it might be devastating if used right.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: E25280 on May 30, 2011, 11:03:27 AM
Armament of the Mk I: QF 2 pdr (40 mm) 110 rounds
<snip>
It provide more firepower than the M8.
From the charts I've seen the 37mm M6 mounted on the M8 equalled or surpassed the 2 lbr's penetration.  "Firepower" would be about equal.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SmokinLoon on May 30, 2011, 11:49:26 AM
Hmmmm... the more I think about the Churchill tank the more I think it could open a whole new realm in AH.

One of the Churchill AVRE versions, the one with the 290mm Petard mortar that was used to level buildings and blow apart bunkers might be fun to tinker with.   :D   
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: 321BAR on May 30, 2011, 11:54:53 AM
Hmmmm... the more I think about the Churchill tank the more I think it could open a whole new realm in AH.

One of the Churchill AVRE versions, the one with the 290mm Petard mortar that was used to level buildings and blow apart bunkers might be fun to tinker with.   :D   
man... i managed to kill my own halftrack 251 with one of its rockets... the 290mm Petard didn't have much range and had a massive explosive power... i feel like i'd do the same with that.... :bolt:



P.S. 251 rocket duels in TT are fun :x
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 30, 2011, 12:16:34 PM
Hmmmm... the more I think about the Churchill tank the more I think it could open a whole new realm in AH.

One of the Churchill AVRE versions, the one with the 290mm Petard mortar that was used to level buildings and blow apart bunkers might be fun to tinker with.   :D   

That's a variant of the Churchill. Can't we just get one of those Shermans with a mounted 105mm cannon (M-7).

From the charts I've seen the 37mm M6 mounted on the M8 equalled or surpassed the 2 lbr's penetration.  "Firepower" would be about equal.

Well at least more armor.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Skyguns MKII on May 30, 2011, 12:56:15 PM
+1 Though i think i rather see other brit tanks first
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 30, 2011, 01:30:32 PM
+1 Though i think i rather see other brit tanks first

I was doing this based on the Desert Campaign and the scenarios. What tank would you like to see?
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 30, 2011, 06:42:33 PM
I was doing this based on the Desert Campaign and the scenarios. What tank would you like to see?


Let me rephrase that. What British tank would you like to see? And also I used the Crusader Mk I to start, but I'm fine with other models too.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Skyguns MKII on May 30, 2011, 06:58:19 PM
Let me rephrase that. What British tank would you like to see? And also I used the Crusader Mk I to start, but I'm fine with other models too.

churchill and its special variants
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 30, 2011, 07:08:04 PM
Well the churchill will be a nice addition. 6 saw the Battle at El Alamein. So we could use the Crusaders, Churchills (in limited numbers), Panzer IVs, Panzer IIIs, M3 Lee (got it right this time), and the M4 Sherman during its debut battle. Didn't early Panzers have an issue where they couldn't turn the turret so they had to expose their broadside to the enemy to shoot a guy on their flanks?

I'd probably use a Crusader in the MA as a tank.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Skyguns MKII on May 30, 2011, 07:42:30 PM
Well the churchill will be a nice addition. 6 saw the Battle at El Alamein. So we could use the Crusaders, Churchills (in limited numbers), Panzer IVs, Panzer IIIs, M3 Lee (got it right this time), and the M4 Sherman during its debut battle. Didn't early Panzers have an issue where they couldn't turn the turret so they had to expose their broadside to the enemy to shoot a guy on their flanks?

I'd probably use a Crusader in the MA as a tank.

youv been watching that show huh? yes thats correct. I wouldnt mind seeing the m3 either
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Scotty55OEFVet on May 31, 2011, 01:20:28 AM
Looked up the Cromwell saw service in small numbers on D-day. It was chiefly used for training.


Is that why in my World at War Book ( Basically a huge WW2 Book that breaks the war down into 5 acts) during Operation Cobra (2-3 months after D-Day+) there is a Picture showing a Brigade of Cromwell's in formation ready to Assault the German Lines? Saw much more service than just on D-Day.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 31, 2011, 06:33:46 AM
As someone said earlier the EW doesn't have any tanks besides a T34. Maybe we could add the PanzerIII, M3 Lee, and Crusader.


youv been watching that show huh? yes thats correct. I wouldnt mind seeing the m3 either


Matbe...   :uhoh
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: 321BAR on May 31, 2011, 07:10:53 AM
That's a variant of the Churchill. Can't we just get one of those Shermans with a mounted 105mm cannon (M-7).

Well at least more armor.
the M7 wasnt a Sherman variant. the Sherman 105 was  :D
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Vulkan on May 31, 2011, 01:56:13 PM
Massive +1 for british armor!  :aok
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Tyrannis on May 31, 2011, 02:20:07 PM
That's a variant of the Churchill. Can't we just get one of those Shermans with a mounted 105mm cannon (M-7).

Well at least more armor.
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

i want my sherman 105  :(
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 31, 2011, 03:13:51 PM
+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

i want my sherman 105  :(

If you want the Sherman 105 can you start a thread on it?


the M7 wasnt a Sherman variant. the Sherman 105 was  :D


Well at least the M7 based on the Sherman's chassis or hull. Was I close?



Well the crusader lacks firepower but beats the M8 in armor. Also, the MG I mentioned the might be coaxial.





Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Tyrannis on May 31, 2011, 03:38:29 PM
If you want the Sherman 105 can you start a thread on it?



Well at least the M7 based on the Sherman's chassis or hull. Was I close?



Well the crusader lacks firepower but beats the M8 in armor. Also, the MG I mentioned the might be coaxial.






i have, think ive made 3 actually. use the search button  :aok
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on May 31, 2011, 03:54:45 PM
for what?killin jeeps.40mm is hardly better then m8

Remember LThunderpocket it's not the tank that wins the war but the tactics.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Scotty55OEFVet on June 01, 2011, 01:34:41 AM
What about the Comet???
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 01, 2011, 06:45:42 AM
What about the Comet???

Can you start your own thread then?
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 01, 2011, 09:09:44 AM
What about the Comet???

Good suggestion, but it would be no different that the Sherman Firefly we currently have in AH.  It offers nothing different other than slightly more armor, which in its own right the Sherman Firefly really isnt lacking in armor if it is used as a stand off TD like it was meant to be.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Scotty55OEFVet on June 01, 2011, 02:56:04 PM
Good suggestion, but it would be no different that the Sherman Firefly we currently have in AH.  It offers nothing different other than slightly more armor, which in its own right the Sherman Firefly really isnt lacking in armor if it is used as a stand off TD like it was meant to be.

Ahhh gotcha...and this thread is for "British Tank" is it not Iron??? Last time I checked, the Comet was in fact, a BRITISH TANK. :bhead
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 01, 2011, 03:26:29 PM
Ahhh gotcha...and this thread is for "British Tank" is it not Iron??? Last time I checked, the Comet was in fact, a BRITISH TANK. :bhead

Do you prefer your deck of cards in blue or red?  You know, regardless of the color you chose the one eyed jack is still a ... ...  ...

My point was that the Comet and the Firefly offer much the same thing in terms of firepower, speed, and armor.  If HTC is going to add in a British tank, I bet they would fill a gap somewhere first.  The Cromwell would at least offer some more speed @ 33mph than the M4/75's 26mph.  If HTC played their cards right, they could allow 3 differnent versions on 1 chassis: the Mk I w/ the 6pdr (57mm), the Mk V w/ the M4-75mm gun, and the Mk VI w/ the 95mm howitzer.   

The 6 pdr would offer better AP performance than the 75mm, it'd be nice to see some of the specialty 6 pdr rounds be added.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Mystery on June 01, 2011, 03:30:39 PM
Hmmmm... the more I think about the Churchill tank the more I think it could open a whole new realm in AH.

One of the Churchill AVRE versions, the one with the 290mm Petard mortar that was used to level buildings and blow apart bunkers might be fun to tinker with.   :D   

+2 to the AVRE 290mm Petard variant. It would be quite a town/structure wrecker but rather vulnerable, thus requiring tank-to-tank coordination to keep the asset protected and alive. Not unlike escort protection for bombers.

Interesting concept!
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 01, 2011, 03:48:06 PM
What about the forgotten tanks of the Desert Campaign? How about the EW's tanks?
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Mystery on June 01, 2011, 04:06:24 PM
More on the Churchill AVRE variant with Petard mortar:

(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx48/Ironman5459/Petard.jpg)

And a Youtube video with the AVRE/Petard at the 6:50 mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=ImV30KURF7I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=ImV30KURF7I)
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: RTHolmes on June 01, 2011, 04:55:23 PM
the AVRE would be great for towns, SBs, Hangars, and multipurpose mayhem :aok




edit: I just imagined 4x AVREs blasting away at an HQ  :lol :banana:
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 01, 2011, 05:39:03 PM
the AVRE would be great for towns, SBs, Hangars, and multipurpose mayhem :aok




edit: I just imagined 4x AVREs blasting away at an HQ  :lol :banana:

Wouldn't they need help vs tanks?

Ahhh gotcha...and this thread is for "British Tank" is it not Iron??? Last time I checked, the Comet was in fact, a BRITISH TANK. :bhead


It was A British Tank and the last time I checked it was about the Crusader which was in fact British!  :bhead
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Scotty55OEFVet on June 01, 2011, 05:54:41 PM
Do you prefer your deck of cards in blue or red?  You know, regardless of the color you chose the one eyed jack is still a ... ...  ...

My point was that the Comet and the Firefly offer much the same thing in terms of firepower, speed, and armor.  If HTC is going to add in a British tank, I bet they would fill a gap somewhere first.  The Cromwell would at least offer some more speed @ 33mph than the M4/75's 26mph.  If HTC played their cards right, they could allow 3 differnent versions on 1 chassis: the Mk I w/ the 6pdr (57mm), the Mk V w/ the M4-75mm gun, and the Mk VI w/ the 95mm howitzer.   

The 6 pdr would offer better AP performance than the 75mm, it'd be nice to see some of the specialty 6 pdr rounds be added.

Gotcha  :salute
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: RTHolmes on June 01, 2011, 06:05:14 PM
Wouldn't they need help vs tanks?

luckily AH is a team sport as well as a 1-player game ;) :aok
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: BaldEagl on June 01, 2011, 11:05:36 PM
Well since the OP wanted a Crusader here's a nice variant to add:

Crusader
Great Britan 1940-1943
Production: 
Armor: 32mm
Range:  322 km.
Speed:  24-42 km/h (off-road/road)
Armament: Bofors 40mm AA Gun with an autoloader and powered mounting in an open topped turret. 

Bofors 40mm AA Gun:
Caliber: 40mm
Elevation: 
ROF:  120 rounds/min
Muzzle velocity: 881 m/s
Effective range:  12,500 ft
Maximum Range:  23,600 ft
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SDGhalo on June 01, 2011, 11:44:22 PM
dont forget the Crusader II AA MK II that was armed with twin Oerlikon 20 mm guns in a turret that was only just barely big enough for the commander gunner and the 2 guns
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/IWM-B-8439-Crusader-AA-194408.jpg)
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 02, 2011, 06:33:01 AM
They didn't see much action because of air surperiority. Now back to what this thread was about the Crusader Tank (and co.)
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 02, 2011, 08:57:22 AM
They didn't see much action because of air surperiority. Now back to what this thread was about the Crusader Tank (and co.)

The Cromwell?
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 02, 2011, 02:16:08 PM
Is that why in my World at War Book ( Basically a huge WW2 Book that breaks the war down into 5 acts) during Operation Cobra (2-3 months after D-Day+) there is a Picture showing a Brigade of Cromwell's in formation ready to Assault the German Lines? Saw much more service than just on D-Day.

Ta-da!

The Cromwell saw limited action.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Tazz69 on June 02, 2011, 07:58:22 PM
+1, But also, how about the addition of the Cromwell tank. It served along side American made Shermans given to the British in the Lend-Lease program. Just a thought  <S>
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: gyrene81 on June 02, 2011, 08:08:48 PM
Ta-da!

The Cromwell saw limited action.
aaaannnd what would you consider limited action pray tell?
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: 321BAR on June 03, 2011, 07:21:14 AM
aaaannnd what would you consider limited action pray tell?
thought the same...
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 03, 2011, 02:34:55 PM
+1, But also, how about the addition of the Cromwell tank. It served along side American made Shermans given to the British in the Lend-Lease program. Just a thought  <S>

The Crusader did in the Desert Campaign.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: BaldEagl on June 03, 2011, 08:18:39 PM
The Crusader did in the Desert Campaign.

I get the impression you think the Crusader was the only British tank to serve in the desert campaign.  There was also the A-13, Matilda, Honey and, well, most of the British armor that was built during the war.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: 321BAR on June 04, 2011, 08:40:35 AM
I get the impression you think the Crusader was the only British tank to serve in the desert campaign.  There was also the A-13, Matilda, Honey and, well, most of the British armor that was built during the war.
cept the cromwell, churchill, (thought matilda was later? too lazy to check on that.), and comet. any others?
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Rino on June 04, 2011, 09:32:12 AM
     Matildas 1 and 2 were in service from the very beginning of UK war action.

Matilda I

(http://arcaneafvs.com/a11/rhside.jpg)

Matilda II

(http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/infantry-tank-mark-ii-a-12-2.jpg)
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 04, 2011, 03:14:09 PM
May I suggest before championing the addition of a tank into AH that the attributes of that tank be considered.  Meaning, if it has the top speed slower than a 7 year itch (Matilda, Churchill), armed with a gun similar than the M8 Greyhound (2 Pdr on most British '41-'43 tanks), and the armor no more effective than the M4's we have in the game..... ..... ..... ..... .....

then why even add it since it offers nothing new and in fact offers a new bottom of the barrel standard?  Scenarios is the only place it would be used in   

The Cromwell at least offers 30mph+ (most sources say 32 mph was max speed) with comparable armor and the same gun as a Sherman M4/75mm.  The optics would be far better than the Sherman M4/75mm, it has the same optics as the British Sherman Firefly (3X-6X) but with only 52mm of armor penetration at 1000 yards whats the use?

The Crusader offers 27mph, 32mm of armor at best, and the 40mm Q.F. 2 Pdr Mk.IX L / 50 cannon.  All we'd really have is a thinly armored tank, with a weak gun, with average speed.  If HTC would venture out and allow the different versions (swap turrets) offered in the hanger (95mm howitzer, the 6 pdr, and the 2 Pdr), then we may have something.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 04, 2011, 03:24:44 PM
Well Smokin there were different models with different loadouts. The III we might actually need a different model. The I and II are almost the same. (Keyword: ALMOST.) Wouldn't a Panzer III be almost the same as the Crusader. (the Panzer III couldn't traverse turret.) Also, the EW lacks tanks. The M3 Lee, Panzer III and Crusader could help solve the problems.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Rino on June 04, 2011, 05:21:53 PM
May I suggest before championing the addition of a tank into AH that the attributes of that tank be considered.  Meaning, if it has the top speed slower than a 7 year itch (Matilda, Churchill), armed with a gun similar than the M8 Greyhound (2 Pdr on most British '41-'43 tanks), and the armor no more effective than the M4's we have in the game..... ..... ..... ..... .....

then why even add it since it offers nothing new and in fact offers a new bottom of the barrel standard?  Scenarios is the only place it would be used in   

The Cromwell at least offers 30mph+ (most sources say 32 mph was max speed) with comparable armor and the same gun as a Sherman M4/75mm.  The optics would be far better than the Sherman M4/75mm, it has the same optics as the British Sherman Firefly (3X-6X) but with only 52mm of armor penetration at 1000 yards whats the use?

The Crusader offers 27mph, 32mm of armor at best, and the 40mm Q.F. 2 Pdr Mk.IX L / 50 cannon.  All we'd really have is a thinly armored tank, with a weak gun, with average speed.  If HTC would venture out and allow the different versions (swap turrets) offered in the hanger (95mm howitzer, the 6 pdr, and the 2 Pdr), then we may have something.

      According to your logic, we could remove everything but one plane and one tank.  Not everyone needs the latest
and greatest toys to be successful.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 04, 2011, 07:08:08 PM
      According to your logic, we could remove everything but one plane and one tank.  Not everyone needs the latest
and greatest toys to be successful.

I have used the M8. It is my favorite ride. I have taken out a Panther and a T34/85 in one. Nobody needs the latest rides. I fly a pony B not a D. I casually fly the 109F not the Gs or K series. The latest isn't the greatest. The most armed, powerful, latest, etc isn't needed to be successful. Fear not the plane (vehicle too) but the pilot (or driver.)
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: E25280 on June 04, 2011, 07:14:47 PM
May I suggest before championing the addition of a tank into AH that the attributes of that tank be considered.  Meaning, if it has the top speed slower than a 7 year itch (Matilda, Churchill), armed with a gun similar than the M8 Greyhound (2 Pdr on most British '41-'43 tanks), and the armor no more effective than the M4's we have in the game..... ..... ..... ..... .....

then why even add it since it offers nothing new and in fact offers a new bottom of the barrel standard?  Scenarios is the only place it would be used in   

The Cromwell at least offers 30mph+ (most sources say 32 mph was max speed) with comparable armor and the same gun as a Sherman M4/75mm.  The optics would be far better than the Sherman M4/75mm, it has the same optics as the British Sherman Firefly (3X-6X) but with only 52mm of armor penetration at 1000 yards whats the use?

The Crusader offers 27mph, 32mm of armor at best, and the 40mm Q.F. 2 Pdr Mk.IX L / 50 cannon.  All we'd really have is a thinly armored tank, with a weak gun, with average speed.  If HTC would venture out and allow the different versions (swap turrets) offered in the hanger (95mm howitzer, the 6 pdr, and the 2 Pdr), then we may have something.
You contradict your own stated logic.  The Cromwell would bring nothing new to the game.  It would be essentially a different skinned T-34/76.  

We do NOT currently have a thinly armored undergunned average-speed tank.  We have an even weaker-armored but faster armored car in the M-8.  Not to mention that this would be only the second tank available in the EWA (that's something new to the game, eh?).
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: E25280 on June 04, 2011, 07:15:59 PM
(the Panzer III couldn't traverse turret.)
:huh
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 04, 2011, 07:18:22 PM
Got it from first hand accounts and when I saw a picture of it the armor was sloped so it couldn't move.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Rino on June 05, 2011, 07:08:07 AM
Well Smokin there were different models with different loadouts. The III we might actually need a different model. The I and II are almost the same. (Keyword: ALMOST.) Wouldn't a Panzer III be almost the same as the Crusader. (the Panzer III couldn't traverse turret.) Also, the EW lacks tanks. The M3 Lee, Panzer III and Crusader could help solve the problems.

     OMG!  We better call someone, this PzKw III is obviously broken!  :D

(http://superevil.tv/images/Rommel/panzerIII.jpg)

     Oh Noes!  This one is too, it's an epidemic!  :rofl

(http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/features/detling/Detling_001.JPG)

     Augh!  Oh the huge manatees!

(http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/all_images/Modelling/Panzer-Numbers-2.jpg)
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: Tyrannis on June 05, 2011, 07:23:02 AM
i personally feel the Lee deserves to be the next tank included into the game, it shared the same important role in North Africa that the Sherman had in Europe. it feels wrong not having it in-game allready.

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/academy13206reviewcs_1.jpg)



but on a diff note, does anyone else think the pnzer III looks ALOT better than the pnzer IV?


i look at the III, and it looks MEAN, tough, built to last, and a real fighting tank. then i look at the IV and its looks like an III that got sissified  :headscratch:
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 05, 2011, 08:44:29 AM
You contradict your own stated logic.  The Cromwell would bring nothing new to the game.  It would be essentially a different skinned T-34/76.  

We do NOT currently have a thinly armored undergunned average-speed tank.  We have an even weaker-armored but faster armored car in the M-8.  Not to mention that this would be only the second tank available in the EWA (that's something new to the game, eh?).

The 75mm on the Cromwell has twice the reload rate, another %20 more HE damage, and the armor would be more similar to the M4/75mm than the T34.  You're right though, it would not be all that different than what we currently have.  But from a British angle, it would be a logical addition, imo.  I can see wanting to add an EW tank since right now the T34/76 is all we have, but the Crusader wont offer any more than the M8 except less speed.  I've read in multiple accounts were HE was not even issued to most Crusader units with the 2 pdr gun.  

If the goal is to add an EW tank, then the Pzr III w/ the 50mm Kw.K. 39 L / 60 (June'42), gets my vote.  If the goal is to add a British tank, then the Cromwell Mk I or Mk IV gets my vote (I'd really like to see the Mk I w/ the 57mm Q.F. 6 Pdr Mk.V L / 50 and mixed AP, APDS, and HE ammo).  If the goal is to add an EW British tank... then I vote to remodel the M8 Greyhound and give it a British skin (yeah yeah, I know HTC frowns upon that, but hey  :) )
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 05, 2011, 11:43:21 AM
Smokin the M8 is an armored car.  :bhead
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 05, 2011, 01:03:15 PM
Smokin the M8 is an armored car.  :bhead

Good for you lad!  You passed the 5th grade!   :D  Maybe I should have spelled it out: since the gun of an EW British tank is no better than the M8 Greyhound, and the armor is really no better on an EW British tank than the M8 Greyhound, then I will suggest HTC put the time and effort in to remodeling/updating the M8 and get much of the same thing.  I'm all about filling in the gaps, and right now there are many more gaps needed filled (imo) than adding a lightly armored, lightly gun, and average to slow speed tank.

Every EW British tank would be a sitting duck vs everything else out there with any remote ability to penetrate armor. 
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 05, 2011, 01:09:18 PM
The M8 is undergunned however if used right it will get kills. Why can't the Crusader do the same?
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 05, 2011, 05:48:45 PM
The M8 is undergunned however if used right it will get kills. Why can't the Crusader do the same?

Speed.  The Crusader is no faster than the Panzer IV, LVT, etc.  The M8 is the 2nd fastest GV in the game at 60mph +.  If HTC were to want to add in an EW British tank or AC, then the Diamler AC might be better.  It is fast at 50mph, has the 18mm armor, and has the same 40mm 2 Pdr gun as the Crusader tank.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 05, 2011, 06:39:10 PM
The Crusader can survive better than the Diamler.
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 05, 2011, 09:24:27 PM
The Crusader can survive better than the Diamler.

I wont argue against that when MG's, light HE cannon (20mm), or even near-misses vs the larger HE rounds (75mm).  However, the there is not an AP round in the game that originates from the main gun of the tank that cant beat both the Diamler AC and Crusader at 2000 yards (or more).  In fact, I'd be willing to bet the Diamler would last longer due to it being able to run and hide faster.  :D

What would be fun to have is the whole roster of tanks in N. Africa terrains!  The Germans with their Panzer MK's II, III, and IV, Italians with their M 13/40's, and British Matildas, Cruiser Mk's I/II, Crusaders, Valentines, and Sherman variants would be a good time.  Fast firing guns with wide open terrains.  Oh the FUN!!!    :)
Title: Re: A British Tank
Post by: iron650 on June 06, 2011, 03:46:48 PM
I wont argue against that when MG's, light HE cannon (20mm), or even near-misses vs the larger HE rounds (75mm).  However, the there is not an AP round in the game that originates from the main gun of the tank that cant beat both the Diamler AC and Crusader at 2000 yards (or more).  In fact, I'd be willing to bet the Diamler would last longer due to it being able to run and hide faster.  :D

What would be fun to have is the whole roster of tanks in N. Africa terrains!  The Germans with their Panzer MK's II, III, and IV, Italians with their M 13/40's, and British Matildas, Cruiser Mk's I/II, Crusaders, Valentines, and Sherman variants would be a good time.  Fast firing guns with wide open terrains.  Oh the FUN!!!    :)

Don't forget the M3 Grant/Lee. Yes, the desert map will be fun. Wide open terrains. No place to hide.