Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: iron650 on June 04, 2011, 12:33:50 PM
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Night fighter, heavy fighter. (Light bomber and bomber destroyer, too) They were a very elusive night fighter that the RAF had a hard time finding. They had ease getting to destroy unescorted bombers. They were having hard times against the lighter P-47s and P-51s. The first 410 loss was against a Mosquito at night.
Me410 Specs (A-1):
Crew: 2
Length: 41.2 feet
Wingspan: 53.6 feet 7 inches
Height: 12 feet
Wing area: 390 squared feet
Empty weight: 14,597lb
Max takeoff weight: 24,766lbs
Engines: 2 Daimler-Benz DB 603A liquid-cooled V12 engine 1,726 hp each
Max speed: 388mph
Range: 1,400mph
Service ceiling: 32,800 feet
Armament:
2 7.9mm MG 17 with 1,000rpg firing forwards
2 20mm MG151 cannons 350rpg firing forwards
2 13mm MG131 machine guns 500rpg firing rearward from FDSL 131/1B remote-operated turret, one per side
Bombload: 2,204lb of bombs
The Hornet will be helpful for both bombing, strike, and anti-gv roles. Also, on D-Day the Hornet coordinated with Ju188s to try to stop the advance.
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search is your friend :noid
+1
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search is your friend :noid
+1
Wait there was an ealier thread on this?
Just found the earlier thread. Anyways, it's like the 110, good at bomber interception. In AH I feel it's going to ground/strike though.
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it was in the poll last time we got to vote on new plane.. it lost though, everyone wanted the stupid B29 instead.
you also forgot to mention the BK 5 50mm cannon. :devil
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it was in the poll last time we got to vote on new plane.. it lost though, everyone wanted the stupid B29 instead.
you also forgot to mention the BK 5 50mm cannon. :devil
The 50mm was in a later model. I'm talking about the A-1. Also, I don't think the plane had any other guns beside the 50mm when it was made.
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The 50mm was in a later model. I'm talking about the A-1. Also, I don't think the plane had any other guns beside the 50mm when it was made.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,308073.0.html
they know more about it than I do.
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Hopefully we get the 410 soonish.
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Hopefully we get the 410 soonish.
+1
(actually, + 48% of the players in AH, is about how many voted for it)
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Night fighter, heavy fighter. (Light bomber and bomber destroyer, too) They were a very elusive night fighter that the RAF had a hard time finding. They had ease getting to destroy unescorted bombers. They were having hard times against the lighter P-47s and P-51s. The first 410 loss was against a Mosquito at night.
Me410 Specs (A-1):
Crew: 2
Length: 41.2 feet
Wingspan: 53.6 feet 7 inches
Height: 12 feet
Wing area: 390 squared feet
Empty weight: 14,597lb
Max takeoff weight: 24,766lbs
Engines: 2 Daimler-Benz DB 603A liquid-cooled V12 engine 1,726 hp each
Max speed: 388mph
Range: 1,400mph
Service ceiling: 32,800 feet
Armament:
2 7.9mm MG 17 with 1,000rpg firing forwards
2 20mm MG151 cannons 350rpg firing forwards
2 13mm MG131 machine guns 500rpg firing rearward from FDSL 131/1B remote-operated turret, one per side
Bombload: 2,204lb of bombs
The Hornet will be helpful for both bombing, strike, and anti-gv roles. Also, on D-Day the Hornet coordinated with Ju188s to try to stop the advance.
if this ever got put into the game, then the b29 deserves to ether be unperked, or have its perk cost reduced.
a fighter that can go faster than the bomber&has a 50mm cannon that can engage the b29 far out of the b29's defensive fire range? yea, not worth flying the b29 for 100+ perkies when that can happen.
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Again this is the A model. Not the other model they were talking about in the thread. :bhead
Because a number of sources list (e.g.) the B-2/U4 variant as carrying both a BK5, and MK103's and/or MG151/20's.
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if this ever got put into the game, then the b29 deserves to ether be unperked, or have its perk cost reduced.
a fighter that can go faster than the bomber&has a 50mm cannon that can engage the b29 far out of the b29's defensive fire range? yea, not worth flying the b29 for 100+ perkies when that can happen.
Me410 will be a sitting duck to any fighter.
If the BK50 is included as an option, it will likely be perked. The probable effect of the Mosquito Mk XVIII with the 57mm Molins gun on bombers was a specific concern Pyro expressed regarding it being potentially added.
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Me410 will be a sitting duck to any fighter.
If the BK50 is included as an option, it will likely be perked. The probable effect of the Mosquito Mk XVIII with the 57mm Molins gun on bombers was a specific concern Pyro expressed regarding it being potentially added.
Apparently it was averagely used in anti-bomber (like the 110 was originally) roles along with anti-vehicle role.
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I am going you on this, we will get it with in........3 years! :D
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Apparently it was averagely used in anti-bomber (like the 110 was originally) roles along with anti-vehicle role.
During daylight ops both the Bf110 and Me410 are sitting ducks.
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Me410 will be a sitting duck to any fighter.
If the BK50 is included as an option, it will likely be perked. The probable effect of the Mosquito Mk XVIII with the 57mm Molins gun on bombers was a specific concern Pyro expressed regarding it being potentially added.
true, but how many single man b29's fly with escorts?
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true, but how many single man b29's fly with escorts?
How many B-29 will fly in AH at altitudes and speeds that make them interceptable for the Me 410 w/ BK 50? ;)
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How many B-29 will fly in AH at altitudes and speeds that make them interceptable for the Me 410 w/ BK 50? ;)
alot, actually. atleast from what ive encountered.
most people ive seen flying the b29 fly it the normal alts for b17-24's. in the low 20k's
ive ran into a few flying it so low as to 10k (upped a 110 to go hunting for him that day, but ran into a suprise NOE mission of lancs on the way)
the me410s max speed is 388 according to the info, the b29's full speed is 350ish? me410 could catch a b29. would take awhile, but could catch it.
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alot, actually. atleast from what ive encountered.
We do not have the 410 yet. If there were a plane in AH that could snipe off a 100 perk bomber from a safe distance... don't you think the 29 pilots would quickly adjust their tactics?
most people ive seen flying the b29 fly it the normal alts for b17-24's. in the low 20k's
Maybe you are not flying high enough yourself? ;)
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The A model? Why would you want the A model? For what?
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There's no difference between A models and B models. It was intended for a different engine but it never was developed. It retained the same engines.
The only difference being the caliber of fixed forward firing MGs (from 7mm up to 13mm).
P.S. A lot of the listed loadouts you find on the web and in other games are pure fiction. Even many books have them wrong. Moot did a lot of checking on some of this stuff. It's quite fascinating. There were less guns packages than you think but overall still an interesting collection.
P.P.S. Given the speed of the plane, the handling performance, and the no doubt hard-to-aim BK5 gun I don't think it would need perking. In a 1 v 1 sterile situation it might have an upper hand (might) but in the MA environment if it has to climb up the abyssmal climb rate will get it to the target right about the time the bomber has dropped, flown home 200 miles, landed, taken a bath, had some tea, and prepared for the next day's sortie. It would be about as effective as the WGR21s... They can kill with a lot of practice, but getting into position is very rare and to fire them you're terribly vulnerable.
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The other thing about that argument that doesn't hold water is that having a good gun is only part of the reasoning for perking a bomber.
Should the Mosquito Mk XVI be unperked because there are fighters that are faster than it and can get into effective gun range without it shooting back? Of course not, getting into effective gun range is the issue, not being shot at. The speed difference between the B-29A and Me410 is significantly less than the speed difference between the Mosquito Mk XVI and P-47N. Have fun intercepting Mosquito Mk XVI's in your P-47N.
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Here's a secret folks don't realize: Guns fly farther in the thinner air. The higher you go the longer your bullets fly because there's less resistance.
I have repeatedly taken a Yak9T up at 15k+ and sat parked behind B-17s outside their range (1.5k+), plinking them with taters. Problem is you have constant guessing, you can't hold a solid aim point, you run through your entire 30-round clip trying for a few hits. I unloaded an entire Yak9T and only got 1 of 3 drones twice when I tried doing this.
So it's already in-game. It's already simulated, and it's already a pain in the behind. Giving a BK50 with 20 rounds is still going to be a crap shoot, especially following moving targets and guesstimating projectile drop and dispersion.
Or, do you also want to perk the Yak9T? That's already in-game.
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The B-29 was a short lived fad. I almost never see it flying. Not because I'm not up looking either. 410 would have added so much more to the game. :airplane:
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The B-29 was a short lived fad. I almost never see it flying. Not because I'm not up looking either. 410 would have added so much more to the game. :airplane:
B-29, 1944-1960
Me-410, 1943 -1945
Lets also keep in mind that the B-29 was the only long rang bomber to bomb Japan most of the war and well into Korean war too.
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I am unsure how this plays into any arguments. :salute
B-29, 1944-1960
Me-410, 1943 -1945
Lets also keep in mind that the B-29 was the only long rang bomber to bomb Japan most of the war and well into Korean war too.
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I am unsure how this plays into any arguments. :salute
Not sure how to play it to his remark. Are we talking about the game or real life?
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Funny thing about the Me410 timeline, and I didn't realize this until this past weekend when I did some reading...
The Me210 was produced and delivered for testing in early 1940. That's right, BEFORE the Battle of Britain!
There were the notorious instability problems of course (that stupid cranked wing was to blame for much of it), and it was found unsatisfactory. There were problems incorporating changes and delivering more units for more testing to the point where an official letter was sent saying there had been so many changes that any testing they were doing on the initial models was totally useless. They were very upset with Willi!
Now if he had just stuck with a straight wing leading edge, it wouldn't nearly have been so bad! Added his trademark leading edge slats like on the Bf110, and can you imagine a BoB flown with Me210s against Spit1s and Hurr1s? It would have been a slaughter! Alas, I suppose that's too much a what-if scenario but interesting to ponder!
410s were being produced in early '43, but I would say (my own $0.02) that you should really count them as a variant like the 109F is over the 109E. IMO the 410 had a bit of a longer lifespan than most folks think, if they consider the "teething problems" it encountered from 1940 onward.
Sorry for the tangent :)
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if this ever got put into the game, then the b29 deserves to ether be unperked, or have its perk cost reduced.
a fighter that can go faster than the bomber&has a 50mm cannon that can engage the b29 far out of the b29's defensive fire range? yea, not worth flying the b29 for 100+ perkies when that can happen.
Are you as high as the b29 can fly....only like 3 fighters can even catch a b-29. it just flys to high and to fast. the service ceiling on the 410 is 32,000ft the b29 can fly well above that not to mention the b29 is faster. the b29 practically doesn't even need guns. thats why its perked at 100
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B-29, 1944-1960
Me-410, 1943 -1945
Lets also keep in mind that the B-29 was the only long rang bomber to bomb Japan most of the war and well into Korean war too.
Yes our planes here had to have historical significance, but that doesn't matter much if It's never going to be flown. I wish we could take a pole of those who voted for the b-29 and how often they fly it. If they had spent the time working on the 410 I believe the, use vs time spent to build, would be GREATLY in favor of the 410. IMO, massive amounts of time in game R&D should never be used for a perkie plane like the B-29, but it probably never could be again.
Instead, spend the time building something everyone can & probably will fly. :salute
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I've been seeing B17s a lot higher than I see b29s since I started here.
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I've been seeing B17s a lot higher than I see b29s since I started here.
Same.
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Lets also keep in mind that the B-29 was the only long rang bomber to bomb Japan most of the war and well into Korean war too.
Ummm...you're forgetting the B-24. It was able to fly from forward bases in the Aleutians and hit the northern island of Japan.
ack-ack
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it was in the poll last time we got to vote on new plane.. it lost though, everyone wanted the stupid B29 instead.
you also forgot to mention the BK 5 50mm cannon. :devil
It far from lost, it got 2nd place! I predict we'll have it in-game before Christmas.
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Ummm...you're forgetting the B-24. It was able to fly from forward bases in the Aleutians and hit the northern island of Japan.
ack-ack
That just islands of Japan, but you are right. I should have siad main land of Japan.
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I'm still +1 on the 410. I voted for it last time. With the different armament options, I think it would get a fair bit of use.
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I give this a prus rone
(http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/kim-jong-il-puppet-team-america.jpg)
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How about the 50mm cannon is a separate loadout? Then there's the Mg 151, etc I mentioned earlier.
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The Me 410A-1/U4 with the 50mm cannon would be far more successful in AH than it was in real life. In fact, in real life the 50mm was basically useless as the pilot had to close in as close as 450 yards to have any chance of hitting a bomber and after a round or two the 50mm cannon would usually jam.
ack-ack
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That would suck. :bhead
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The Me 410A-1/U4 with the 50mm cannon would be far more successful in AH than it was in real life. In fact, in real life the 50mm was basically useless as the pilot had to close in as close as 450 yards to have any chance of hitting a bomber and after a round or two the 50mm cannon would usually jam.
ack-ack
There were quite a number armed with it, and hit they did (when they weren't intercepted by the escorts, naturally). So jammed or not, there ya have it. There's a large group of folks that suggest it's an absolute requirement for a 410 in this game. If you recall I was against it initially. However, our B-25H is a million more times effective than the thing was in real life as well, hasn't caused any complaints there.
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There were quite a number armed with it, and hit they did (when they weren't intercepted by the escorts, naturally). So jammed or not, there ya have it. There's a large group of folks that suggest it's an absolute requirement for a 410 in this game. If you recall I was against it initially. However, our B-25H is a million more times effective than the thing was in real life as well, hasn't caused any complaints there.
I used to kill the cruiser with 7 shots from the "H", not anymore...what happened? :old:
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+1 to 410
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:aok +1
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There were quite a number armed with it, and hit they did (when they weren't intercepted by the escorts, naturally). So jammed or not, there ya have it. There's a large group of folks that suggest it's an absolute requirement for a 410 in this game. If you recall I was against it initially. However, our B-25H is a million more times effective than the thing was in real life as well, hasn't caused any complaints there.
The U-4 models carried the 50mm. There were reports of 8 rocket launched tubes. The A series was a light bomber and the B followed for a little.
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It's not that it was a bomber or a fighter. It was really both. There was nothing limiting an A to only dropping bombs and a B only carrying guns, for example. There are lots of test setups that never worked and lots of myths about what it could carry. For the rockets, it could only carry 4 on the outer wings (like our 110G). The 6-gun in the bomb bay did not work (or rather it worked with disasterous results, destroying part of the plane it launched from) and was never tested in flight.
P.S. U4 wasn't a sub type, just a naming convention describing what loadout was put into it when it was in the factory.
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Just forgot the picture so here it is
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Me_410_Hornisse_with_BK_5.jpg)
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I've flown the 410 in freehost plenty and have found the 50mm to be far less effective than guns in the other loadouts available.