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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Megalodon on June 13, 2011, 11:01:22 AM

Title: B-17 Crash
Post by: Megalodon on June 13, 2011, 11:01:22 AM
The Liberty Belle made a emergency crash landing in near Aurora, Ill.

"The pilot made an emergency landing in a cornfield near Highway 71 and Minkler Road in Oswego after reporting an engine fire, according to Sugar Grove Fire Chief Marty Kunkle.  Fire Departments from Oswego, Sugar Grove and Plainfield on the scene."

All 7 made it out okay

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-crews-responding-to-incident-involving-wwii-bomber-20110613,0,5852034.story (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-crews-responding-to-incident-involving-wwii-bomber-20110613,0,5852034.story)
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: mbailey on June 13, 2011, 11:03:10 AM
Thats heartbreaking. Liberty Belle was a gorgous airplane :( Glad to see everyone made it out Ok. Kudos to the pilots  :aok
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Tyrannis on June 13, 2011, 11:14:52 AM
...thats creepy. because back in april i discovered there website and was thinking about taking a ride in it. i even requested its skin for aceshigh.

that bomber does not have a good history. the first liberty bell got blown up by its own bomb when it was hit by flak.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Curlew on June 13, 2011, 11:18:10 AM
(http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/media/photo/2011-06/357370640-13084043.jpg)


 :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Shuffler on June 13, 2011, 11:19:59 AM
Geesh
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: tmetal on June 13, 2011, 11:20:09 AM
Another airworthy warbird bent and broken  :(
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Bodhi on June 13, 2011, 11:40:19 AM
Sadly, Reilly coated most of those fuel cells in the center section with a resin product.  That alone should keep the fire going for a long time. 

Looks very bad, almost write off bad.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Jackraid on June 13, 2011, 11:42:21 AM
This happened about 15 mins from my house...article from the news this morning.  Luckily everyone on board was ok.

WWII bomber crashes near Aurora, all 7 aboard said to be OK

By Gerry Smith, Cynthia Dizikes and Carlos Sadovi Tribune reporters

11:35 a.m. CDT, June 13, 2011
A vintage World War II bomber crashed and burned in a field southeast of Aurora Municipal Airport this morning, but the seven people on board escaped without injury, according to aviation officials.

The plane, a B-17 known as a "Flying Fortress," took off from the airport at 9:30 a.m. and went down about three or four miles from Aurora about 20 minutes later, according to Elizabeth Isham Cory, a spokeswoman for the Federal Aviation Administration. "The plane is burning. We believe the seven people on board escaped without injury."

    Related
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The pilot made an emergency landing in a cornfield near Highway 71 and Minkler Road in Oswego after reporting an engine fire, according to Sugar Grove Fire Chief Marty Kunkle.  Fire Departments from Oswego, Sugar Grove and Plainfield on the scene.

Jim Barry was at his home in the Deerpath Creek subdivision when he heard a plane flying low overhead. "The windows were rattling. I said, 'That's a crop duster.' "

He looked out and saw the bomber and a smaller yellow plane. An engine on the left wing of the bomber -- the one farthest from the cockpit --- was on fire.

"There were flames but mainly it was smoke," Barry said.

The pilot managed to set the plane down in a gap between a relay tower about 60 to 70 feet high and a line of trees 25 to 30 feet high -- around 500 yards from his home. "He did a great job," Barry said.

Once the plane was on the ground, flames started shooting 50 feet in the air. Within minutes, emergency crews were at the crash site.

"It was shocking," Barry said.

A neighbor told him she saw the words "Liberty Belle" on the nose of the plane.

His neighbor, Drew Mundsinger and his son were driving back to their home after dropping off other children at school when they saw the plane flying low overhead. A smaller plane was flying with the B-17.

Mundsinger he knew the plane was in the area providing rides and didn't think much of it. When they came close to their home, they saw large plumes of dark smoke filling the air and at first thought it was someone burning leaves.

Then he and his son realized one of the planes had crashed. By the time he reached his home, he saw the plane burning in a cornfield about 500 yards behind his home.

"When we first came here, it looked like nothing could survive that," Mundsinger said. "It looked to be right by my subdivision so I got worried. The scary thing is, it was heading right at our house.

“It made my heart race up a beat," he added. "I can clearly look straight out at it.”

Gene Sheeley was loading groceries into his car outside a Jewel store when he heard a plane flying overhead. Looking up, Sheeley said he noticed the bomber was gliding extremely low over the intersection of Orchard Road and Illinois Route 71 in Oswego.

 “I thought this puppy is flying low, but I didn’t realize it was going to crash,” Sheeley said.

But moments later Sheeley, 72, saw a large plume of black smoke rising into the clear blue sky.  “The first thing that came to my mind was did anybody get hurt,” Sheeley said.

The B-17 was primarily deployed by the U.S. Army Air Forces in daylight strategic bombing of German industrial and military targets.  It  also participated to a lesser extent in the Pacific, where it conducted raids against Japanese shipping and airfields.

The plane that crashed was manufactured in 1944 and is registered to the Liberty Foundation in Miami, Fla., which restored the "Liberty Belle." The plane was at the Aurora Municipal Airport on Saturday and Sunday, according to the foundation's website.

The  "Liberty Belle" was sold on June 25, 1947 as scrap to Esperado Mining Co. of Altus, Okla. and was sold again later that year to Pratt & Whitney for $2,700, according to the foundation's website.

Whitney operated the B-17 from Nov. 19, 1947 to 1967 to test turboprop engines. It was donated in the late 1960s to the Connecticut Aeronautical Historic Association in East Hartford, but was heavily damaged in 1979 when a tornado threw another aircraft against the B-17’s mid-section, breaking the fuselage, the foundation said.

It was stored in the New England Air Museum in Connecticut until the foundation began restoring it.

The plane travels around the country, giving rides to the public at $430 each. It most recently was in Indianapolis, Dayton and Cincinnati.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: mechanic on June 13, 2011, 11:44:15 AM
'plane is burning'   -  damnit :(
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: JOACH1M on June 13, 2011, 11:45:25 AM
The plane is FUBAR,  :( I dont see it being repaired
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Slash27 on June 13, 2011, 11:50:19 AM
http://www.wpri.com/dpps/news/us_news/midwest/vintage-wwii-b-17-bomber-crashes-outside-chicago-nt11-jgr_3846948


 :cry
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Krusty on June 13, 2011, 11:51:23 AM
CNN.com has footage of the firefighters hosing it down.

It's gone.

A chunk of either wing intact, mostly burning, part of the tail there, still burning, but the entire fuselage and inner wings are white ash.


EDIT: Slash's link has similar video footage to CNN.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Bodhi on June 13, 2011, 11:51:50 AM
(http://sharing.woodtv.com/sharewlin//photo/2011/06/13/CNN-illinois-plane-crash_20110613091125_1_320_240.JPG)

Very bad fire.....
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on June 13, 2011, 11:53:57 AM
They parked that plane next to mine every year while transiting by Salt Lake. That wing will make a nice conference table in company HQ :(
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Drano on June 13, 2011, 11:56:43 AM
I was just telling someone about my going to the airshow in Reading last week. One of the reasons I go is to see these birds flying and hear the sound of the engines as they come past. I was saying how we lose about one of these a year to some mishap somewhere in the world. Sometimes it's fatal to either the plane or pilot or both. I think it's only a matter of time before it simply becomes cost prohibitive to fly them at all if not from a mechanical standpoint but an insurance standpoint. I hate seeing this because I know it's just another tick on the clock towards none of them flying ever again. Only a matter of time before that sweet sound disappears from the soundtrack of our lives. :cry

 :salute to the pilot getting everyone down and safe. As valuable as the plane is to history it still wouldn't cover the cost of 7 lives.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Reschke on June 13, 2011, 11:58:11 AM
Bohdi you know a heck of a lot more about fixing aircraft like that than anyone else I know...but to me that looks like a complete write off. Never gonna get that puppy back in the air again kind of fire.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: SilverZ06 on June 13, 2011, 12:03:20 PM
Damn that is sad, I flew in that plane a few months ago. What an awesome experience it was. I posted a ton of videos of the flight on here.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: F22RaptorDude on June 13, 2011, 12:04:29 PM
This is a major loss  :cry Not like you see a ton of these flying any more.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on June 13, 2011, 12:07:11 PM
I'm pretty sure anything can be rebuilt from scratch ... If you have the $$$ money for it.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: F22RaptorDude on June 13, 2011, 12:10:10 PM
I'm pretty sure anything can be rebuilt from scratch ... If you have the $$$ money for it.
Unless they can take parts from other B-17's, unlikely with the fuselage damage, there's really nothing left in the middle and the wings are heavily damaged. But heck I would love to see someone try  :pray
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Wolfala on June 13, 2011, 12:12:34 PM
Gents,

If there is still a dataplate, there is still an airplane. We build around that data plate.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: 007Rusty on June 13, 2011, 12:14:40 PM
 :cry
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: 007Rusty on June 13, 2011, 12:15:42 PM
 :cry
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Bodhi on June 13, 2011, 12:21:51 PM
Reschke.  

That aircraft is a complete write off.  The insurance company will sell the wreck, but very little will be salvageable, with the exception of the engine nacelles fwd.  It appears to have gotten very hot.   Heat and aluminum are not good together.  It appears the aircraft was on fire to the ground from the scorch marks over the RH horizontal.  #2 appears feathered, but 1, 3, &4 are not bent back making we wonder if anything was running when she hit.

This is doubly sad for me, as I worked on that aircraft for a number of years before the guy I was working for and I had a disagreement of opinion and I moved on to manage a large warbird collection.  I feel for Mr. Brooks and his loss of the aircraft.  
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: flight17 on June 13, 2011, 12:22:55 PM
:( i saw the plane at kissimmee in the early 2003 at the previous flying tigers museum as it was being restored. it was nearly complete at the time.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Dragon on June 13, 2011, 12:29:29 PM
 :cry :cry
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: flight17 on June 13, 2011, 12:32:30 PM
went to their website and it was unavailable.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Megalodon on June 13, 2011, 12:45:00 PM
It appears the aircraft was on fire to the ground from the scorch marks over the RH horizontal.

You are correct here is the video
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2011/06/13/vo.bomber.crash.WLS.html (http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2011/06/13/vo.bomber.crash.WLS.html)

Sad Day,


Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: ozrocker on June 13, 2011, 12:51:48 PM
Wow, noone has said anything about the lives that could have been burned away as well.
Only the plane. Surely it's not meant this way.
I'm sorry we've lost another part of History as well,
but more grateful than sad that the 7 folks survived :aok

                                                                                                                 <S> Oz
                                                                                 
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Maverick on June 13, 2011, 12:59:58 PM
Outstanding bit of piloting on the part of the crew. They put her down gently in a plowed field wheels down. They did what the could to save their passengers and the bird too. Great job, it's just a shame the fire couldn't have been put out in time.

That bird lived long beyond its design lifetime. Like the men that flew them, they go away.  :salute
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Krusty on June 13, 2011, 01:08:00 PM
Oz, no need to over-react. First line of first post said all onboard were OK.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Slash27 on June 13, 2011, 01:08:16 PM
Wow, noone has said anything about the lives that could have been burned away as well.
Only the plane. Surely it's not meant this way.
I'm sorry we've lost another part of History as well,
but more grateful than sad that the 7 folks survived :aok

                                                                                                                 <S> Oz
                                                                                
Yeah, that's because the op stated all 7 got out Capt Perspective.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Phoenix 7 on June 13, 2011, 01:37:51 PM
NOOOOOOOO!!!!! :cry  It's weird to think I was just on that plane a few months ago. Although very sad indeed, but what a way for an old bird to go out. :salute
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: thndregg on June 13, 2011, 01:40:15 PM
Glad no one was lost or hurt, foremost. Still sorry to hear about the ol' girl's demise. All that work..  :(
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: SilverZ06 on June 13, 2011, 01:40:51 PM
Here is the Air traffic control audio. You can hear the p40 flying with the b17 yell "you're on fire! Put it down"
http://download358.mediafire.com/9ac7lz456prg/x5ti252kjkq2tx3/N390TH_fire.mp3
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Phoenix 7 on June 13, 2011, 01:48:06 PM
 :salute
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: JOACH1M on June 13, 2011, 01:59:10 PM
Wow, noone has said anything about the lives that could have been burned away as well.
Only the plane. Surely it's not meant this way.
I'm sorry we've lost another part of History as well,
but more grateful than sad that the 7 folks survived :aok

                                                                                                                 <S> Oz
                                                                                 
I'm sure if anybody was hurt or killed the comments above would have been slightly different
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Guppy35 on June 13, 2011, 02:21:44 PM
Jeez, she hasn't been back in the air for that long.  It was a heckuva restoration effort to get her going the last time.  No hope this time :(
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: B-17 on June 13, 2011, 02:48:28 PM
 :cry :cry :( do you think there is any hope of mating the suriving pieces of Liberty Bell with another B-17? would the engines would be useable, at least? or is it too expensive?
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Penguin on June 13, 2011, 03:28:21 PM
Ouch, I'm glad that nobody got hurt.  That plane looks like a write-off, though.

-Penguin
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Reschke on June 13, 2011, 03:32:42 PM
Wolf where is the data plate on that aircraft? I am asking because I would have no idea where to look for one.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: SilverZ06 on June 13, 2011, 03:59:54 PM
There is also a thread in general chat about this wreck. I flew on this plane a few months ago and it was an incredible experience. I couldn't imagine flying in one over Germany with enemy fighters hunting you down. It is horrible to see another war bird lost but at least I actually got to experience this aircraft. Here is the mp3 of the air traffic control communication of the emergency landing. You can hear the P40 pilot telling the B17 "you're on fire! Get it on the ground". I actually posted several videos of my ride in her a while back also.  http://download358.mediafire.com/9ac7lz456prg/x5ti252kjkq2tx3/N390TH_fire.mp3
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Gaidin on June 13, 2011, 04:08:34 PM
Reschke. 

That aircraft is a complete write off.  The insurance company will sell the wreck, but very little will be salvageable, with the exception of the engine nacelles fwd.  It appears to have gotten very hot.   Heat and aluminum are not good together.  It appears the aircraft was on fire to the ground from the scorch marks over the RH horizontal.  #2 appears feathered, but 1, 3, &4 are not bent back making we wonder if anything was running when she hit.

This is doubly sad for me, as I worked on that aircraft for a number of years before the guy I was working for and I had a disagreement of opinion and I moved on to manage a large warbird collection.  I feel for Mr. Brooks and his loss of the aircraft. 

I hope to see him soon.  He is supposed to be back this way soon with the B25.  I will have to give him my condolenses for it.  I didnt realize that Brooks owned that plane.

Where you at Bohdi?  I live in Douglas,GA
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: 999000 on June 13, 2011, 04:09:14 PM
Dammit!..I know Shawk has something to do with this!
999000 <S>
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: F22RaptorDude on June 13, 2011, 04:52:09 PM
Its bull they say the fire started in the cockpit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ZsM9Q1Y10&feature=feedu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ZsM9Q1Y10&feature=feedu)
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Beefcake on June 13, 2011, 05:50:36 PM
The Chicago Herald has some pictures of the B17 in flight showing flames coming out of the exhaust of the #2 engine. (See picture #13)

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110613/news/706139915/photos/

I'm very glad everyone made it out ok and they managed to set the plane down in an open field. However, it's heartbreaking to see that beautiful plane burning down.  :cry
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Babalonian on June 13, 2011, 05:56:22 PM
Only good news is everyone made it out OK, the rest is all heartbreak.  :bhead  :cry
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Seraphim on June 13, 2011, 05:58:08 PM
That's the one that flew over my house in March.

Heartbreaker

(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c352/diamondshark/B17/P1000206.jpg)
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: F22RaptorDude on June 13, 2011, 06:08:33 PM
The media is saying the fire started in the cockpit... :headscratch:
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: MotleyCH on June 13, 2011, 06:09:30 PM
 :cry   :bhead

Glad all of them got out safely.

..hate to see these old birds go down.

Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Puma44 on June 13, 2011, 06:37:45 PM
The media is saying the fire started in the cockpit... :headscratch:

When does the media get the facts correct?  Observe the pictures posted below. Note the fire at the rear of the number two engine and that the number two engine prop is feathered.  This shows the pilot secured the engine (feathering the prop being one of the steps). Don't believe what you hear in the media. They rarely get it right.  It doesn't make sense that the fire started in the cockpit. 
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: F22RaptorDude on June 13, 2011, 06:51:09 PM
When does the media get the facts correct?  Observe the pictures posted below. Note the fire at the rear of the number two engine and that the number two engine prop is feathered.  This shows the pilot secured the engine (feathering the prop being one of the steps). Don't believe what you hear in the media. They rarely get it right.  It doesn't make sense that the fire started in the cockpit. 
I know that, I was confused as to how you could get that wrong with the proof thats already laying around. I think some people should be fired.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: SilverZ06 on June 13, 2011, 06:53:55 PM
The media is saying the fire started in the cockpit... :headscratch:

Listen to the air traffic control audio I posted. The p40 pilot flying next to them told them they were on fire. If it was in the cock pit I'm sure the pilot of the b17 would be well aware of it before the p40 flying next to them.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: F22RaptorDude on June 13, 2011, 06:55:59 PM
Listen to the air traffic control audio I posted. The p40 pilot flying next to them told them they were on fire. If it was in the cock pit I'm sure the pilot of the b17 would be well aware of it before the p40 flying next to them.
I know it started on the wing, I put the confused mark because I don't know how the media could have screwed that up. Like I said some people should be fired.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: oakranger on June 13, 2011, 07:02:40 PM
That is unforinate.  I got up close and watch it as they started the engeens, taxi and took off.   :salute
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: SKColt on June 13, 2011, 08:48:42 PM
 This is so unfortunate. Kudos to the crew for saving all souls aboard.
I flew aboard Liberty Belle when she visited Wichita in 2007. It was a ride I will never forget. :salute

(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa391/SKColt/LibertyBelleenginesMay2007.jpg)

(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa391/SKColt/Viewfromaboveradioroom5-14-07A.jpg)

(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa391/SKColt/RightwaistLibertyBelle5-14-2007.jpg)

(http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa391/SKColt/LibertyBellecockpitinflightoverWichitaMay2007.jpg)
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: colmbo on June 13, 2011, 09:21:16 PM
The Chicago Herald has some pictures of the B17 in flight showing flames coming out of the exhaust of the #2 engine. (See picture #13)



The flames are NOT coming out of the exhaust.  The fire is just outboard of the exhaust outlet.  The flames are coming from an area just behind the aft inboard fuel tank.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: flight17 on June 13, 2011, 10:12:09 PM
The flames are NOT coming out of the exhaust.  The fire is just outboard of the exhaust outlet.  The flames are coming from an area just behind the aft inboard fuel tank.
i was gonna post the same thing. It almost looks like the fuel tank itself is on fire.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: TEXICAN on June 13, 2011, 10:22:52 PM
My great aunt's only son whom I was named after was shot down over German today in 1943. 6/13/43   Noah T. Hughes  and this happens on the anniversary makes me sad.

 
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Wolfala on June 13, 2011, 10:44:34 PM
The Chicago Herald has some pictures of the B17 in flight showing flames coming out of the exhaust of the #2 engine. (See picture #13)

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20110613/news/706139915/photos/

I'm very glad everyone made it out ok and they managed to set the plane down in an open field. However, it's heartbreaking to see that beautiful plane burning down.  :cry

Just incase folks are lazy.

(http://www.cirruspilots.org/resized-image.ashx/__size/550x0/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/6/2577.1.PNG)

(http://www.cirruspilots.org/resized-image.ashx/__size/550x0/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/6/2158.2.PNG)
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Reschke on June 14, 2011, 12:10:09 AM
That fire just looks nasty. No idea what is in that location on the bottom picture but it sure does seem like a fuel tank location.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: ozrocker on June 14, 2011, 06:14:57 AM
Oz, no need to over-react. First line of first post said all onboard were OK.
Yeah didn't see that at first, I'm garbage. Wasn't meant to be an "overreacting" observation.

Yeah Slash, you're right too!

                                                                                       <S> Oz

                                       
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: elc7367b on June 14, 2011, 07:55:34 AM
Its good to hear everyone got out all right.  It is very sad news though.  My wife, daugther and I had the opportunity to share a once in a lifetime experience by taking a ride in that bird early in 2010.  It is a memory we all cherrish. 

Muttman
The Sick Puppies
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Penguin on June 14, 2011, 12:20:39 PM
Is there anyone here in the FAA who can enlighten us as to the cause?

-Penguin
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Wolfala on June 14, 2011, 12:22:59 PM
Is there anyone here in the FAA who can enlighten us as to the cause?

-Penguin

Sorry kid,

I gotta laugh at this one.
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: flight17 on June 14, 2011, 12:23:59 PM
Is there anyone here in the FAA who can enlighten us as to the cause?

-Penguin
its the day after and you expect a cause already?

there was a fire that caused it to burn...  :bhead
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: ArcticKat on June 14, 2011, 12:42:23 PM
Local news said the plane was grounded on Sunday due to a fuel leak in the same engine that caught fire while in flight...that makes it even worse to think it could have been avoided. :mad:
Title: Re: B-17 Crash
Post by: Penguin on June 14, 2011, 12:42:58 PM
its the day after and you expect a cause already?

there was a fire that caused it to burn...  :bhead

Oh, I didn't know it was that recent, I forgot to check the date.  Oops!

-Penguin