Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DingHao2 on September 05, 2001, 05:53:00 PM
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I want to hear your opinion. And as a moderator, not a LW or RAF fan.
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LW wear leather thongs, so naturally they always have something up their butt.
RAF have bad teeth and mangle the English language beyond all comprehension.
Of course the good ol' USAAF is on the sidelines drinkin' their Whiskey, and smokin' a cigarette in their John Wayne getups making fun of those other two forces because they are so durn funny lookin'.
:)
-SW
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I am a virtual RAF squad CO. In WB I was a member of Jagdgeschwader 5 "Eismeer". I have flown on the German side in the last two major scenarios. No animosity here. I just like to shoot them down. :)
I think there is a little jealousy between the two sides. Aces High has decided (for whatever reason) to model a lot more German planes than RAF planes, especially very late war uber planes. That makes the RAF guys jealous. On the other hand, the flying characteristics of the RAF planes are more suited to dogfighting, which makes the Luftwaffe guys jealous. But neither of these issues are anything that people should get their panties all bunched up about.
PS Check the mug shot of me in my profile. :)
[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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Is Ding_Hao really Jerry Springer?
:)
Cobra
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lol, no.
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YEah!! and why must it always be "they got one?! Where's ours!!"
Too many people in here can't fly and fight in all the aircraft equally, and enjoy them all equally +)
I don't really care what i fly
so what if there are 24 US planes(exaggeration) and 3 LW crates, my only voice is that while modelling it would be nice to try some of those unique aircraft that haven't been modelled elsewhere. I mean there's a 109, a spit, and a 51 in virtually every sim based on europe. A zero, F6, TBM, in every pac sim. SOOO many aircraft are ignored.
Maybe these aircraft weren't as significant to the "war" but hey SWOTL was a good seller wasn't it? +)
SKurj
SKurj
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Start thinking Japanese aircraft.
Concentrate. Everybody concentrate...
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I don't know, but for a long time whenever I'd start a thread about an RAF aircraft it would always endup hijacked and become either am argument about Luftwaffe aircraft and RAF aircraft or it would become a discussion of Luftwaffe aircraft. Meanwhile if threads were started about Luftwaffe aircraft they tended to remain so.
I am also sick of hearing about how I'm a "dweeb" or a "spitdweeb". I'm sick of derogatory nicknames of the aircraft I like such as "Barbiefire" or "Sissyfire".
I'm sick of LW fans insinuated garbage about being "real" men because they fly LW aircraft.
I'm sick of listening to whines about how overmodeled RAF aircraft are and how undermodeled Luftwaffe aircraft are. In the 1 ping, engine dead thing all you heard about was Fw190s with occasional mentions of the P-38 to try to sound unbiased. No mention of the Tiffe or Tempest (I lost my first Tempest to the 1 ping engine dead bug) in all of that until Fester's post today.
I'm tired of the LW fans constant whining like they are being persecuted becuase their fighters don't mix it up as well as British and Japanese fights.
I'm tired of hearing about Allies vs. Axis where "Axis" really means German. I've seen LW fans whine about how the Allies had the most popular fighter and it wasn't fair to the Axis when the most popular fighter was the N1K2-J Shiden-Kai.
LW guys, go out a fly your fighters. Some of them are damn good.
This doesn't all apply to any one LW fan, but very few LW fans are entirely free of it.
There are many neat LW aircraft that I like, many of their fans rub me the wrong way however.
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the animocity is because aces high models the period of the air war when the luftwaffe got its bellybutton kicked, and the german industry was making toejamty airplanes compared to those being produced in GB.
the luftwaffe kicked bellybutton in 1039-1942 but after that it sucked. the me109 G sucked ass, the fw-190 stagnated, and the me262 was too late. all the while the clipped wing spitfires and mossies were rolling off the lines in GB relatively unhindered by bombing.
the emphasis of aces high on the late war favors RAF fans when they get their rides, because the RAF planes WERE better. Why? Because they didnt have supply problems in the late war (wolf packs were long gone) because of hitlers stupid prosecution of the war.
the german fans probably have the desire to mix it up like the brits can in urning fights etcera but their planes just dont allow those types of tactics if success is desired.
i can speak from personal experience that the animosity can come from friendlies, not teammates. if you have flown both the 109-g10 and the spitfire, you will know that the g10 is the better airplane, but certainly not the easier of the 2 to geta kill in. when you are in a g10 and you work a pony down to the deck after a long engagement then have a person with easy to hit with cannon in an agile plane (ie spitfire) swoop in and take the kill, this can lead to alot of frustration.
the hispano cannon is probably the last point of contention. i think the way that ammo has been modeled as a combined mix gives hispano cannon a bit of an edge in aces high vs the mauser. the germans had access to the hispano design when they captured france. i believe if it had been as superior as it is in aces high in hitting power (not ballistics, i think the ballistics are spot on) the germans would have adopted it.
the problem with the damage model lies in the hit points for components damage model, where the hispano takes off considerable more "hit points"... well from a mathematical standpoint, calculating strict KE and chemical energy amounts, it should, but in terms of killing soft targets like airplanes i dont think ammo works like that.. in reality an AP shell taht hit a wing in a non critical location would do no nearly no damage.... not so in aces high
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Karnak how about a Do-335 thread which turned to P-51H/P-47 thread?
Or maybe a He-177 thread which turned "AH/LW doesn't need He-177.
Looks like you have a "Selective View"; ie you see what you want to see ;)
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I fly both LW and RAF.
Like em both!
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With Funked and Swager.. i fly both. I was in WB for 5 years 1/2 of that with the 13th TAS flying US Iron the other 1/2 was with the JG26 flying LW Iron. Like both.
Have had a Preferance for the Typhoon at this point in time.
No attitude here, dont squeak about any planes. But i do hate the whiners here.
Dog out....
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I ama CO of a distinguished USAAC unit. I know that we are superior to any LW unit. Our machines, our men, our atitudes are all superior. It must be difficult for the LW types to accept. I hope they get over it ;)
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No animosity here, really. A few people get on my nerves, and I'll generally let them know it, but I don't dislike anyone because they fly any particular plane. I actually rather respect Karnak, he usually presents his points in a concise, forthright manner.
By the way, I don't ONLY fly the 109 and 190, those are just my best rides.
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RAF? LW?
We're RCAF so pass me a beer, eh?
Ya Hoser ;)
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I fly em all and, gee, now that I think about it...
I realy do hate myself.
eskimo
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Because there are anal screwed up people waving both flags.
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oboe i passed 3 supermodels the other day all standing in the middle of the street staring at a carton of orange...when i asked them why they said because it said 'concentrate' on the side of the bottle :)
i fly LW and im English.
One of my grandfather's was an anti-aircraft gunner at north-weald and the other was in the Black Watch.had an uncle who was a medic in the paras.They introduced me to the war books and models etc.I have no problem with anyone flying anything from any country.Only fools like laz get all worked up when myself and others, for fun i might add, play the stereotypical LW flyers.
you know stuff like stsanta calling himself Baron von Grossen-arsch(thats Big arse laz,as in a joke) or when we talk like 've vill vin ze War!' etc.Its for a laugh but some just dont get it, it seems.
I would love it if we had americans flying the american planes,japanese flying the japanese etc but ive got no idea why.Just would be fun i think.
[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: hazed- ]
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I gotta agree with Zig *gasp!*. British aircraft were getting better at a time when German iron really started to gain weight. Throw a clipped wing Spit IX against a D9 and I'll put my money on the Spit driver. Not out of preference, but just because of the odds. It takes skill to get kills in most German A/C where as a Spit handles like a trainer. It's a comfortable airplane to fly. Combine that with the ammo modeling and you've got a serial killer on your hands.
I think the LW Brigade here takes pride in that skill, and blows their horn a tad too often. The RAF guys would simply like a Spit made after 1943 to compete with the hot rods. Face it, that Spitfire is a dang fun little wonder to rip around in. I would love to see another variant or two come around some time soon. Hell, if HTC keeps going the direction they started in with 1.08 we'll see a Swordfish before anything else.
I fly everything. A nice fat D-model Corsair one run, or a slender P-51 the next. Sometimes I'll dive in a Spit, other times an Fw-190 is more to my liking at that point in time. Do I have my gripes? Yup. Like Zig, I believe the Hispano ammo model is fragged to some extent. The LW guys love their iron and love telling people how good they are. But the Brits can get down low and really mix it up with anyone in a nasty turning fight. Or they can E-fight if the mood strikes. This probably causes some tension, as the LW gang can't do this and expect to live. Regardless of the aircraft type or the year, German A/C weren't built for whipping around in turns.
I look at it from this perspective: Most Brit planes are fairly good turning fighters, but aren't exactly real hot in the speed dept. German planes are the opposite; they can really cook but they don't turn so well. It creates a nice situation where you've got to fight the other guy on his terms. At least a little bit if you want to win.
There are things HTC could do to fix the disparity between both British and German A/C. Should they be done? Not unless it's broke to begin with. If the Hispano ammo model is fragged, fix it. If the Bf-109 rolls too fast, fix it. As for the pilots of each side? There's a few LW types who should stuff a sock in it, several Brit types should too. If you want to compare stuff, knock yourself out but don't go hijacking the thread.
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"During the Battle of Britain the question 'fighter or fighter-bomber?'
had been decided once and for all: The fighter can only be used as a bomb carrier
with lasting effect when sufficient air superiority has been won." Adolph Galland
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/sig/end_net.gif)
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Don't get me wrong guys, I fly all kinds of aircraft, I'm just tired of the group that is presenting itself as downtrodden.
I wouldn't mind seeing a better German bomber, I'd just rather see some Russian and Japanese aircraft first.
I think that the Me410 would be a nice addition to AH. Hopefully we see something like the following in 1.09:
Me410B-2 Hornisse
Ki67-Ib Hiryu (if it doesn't arrive in 1.08)
N1K1-J Shiden
B6N2 Tenzan
Ju88C-6
P-40N Warhawk
Tu-2 (if it doesn't arrive in 1.08)
T-34/76
M4A3 Sherman
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Heh, and ya illustrated the problem quite well Karnak :D.
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Originally blurted by -ammo-:
...we are superior to any LW unit. Our machines, our men, our atitudes are all superior...
You must be verry drunk to post this :D
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No animosity, just friendly taunting the inferior non-LW pilots :)
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Its simple, LW a/c are not so good for arena playing. In order to obtain good results you have to fly them in a *very* conservative way. And this is good during a scenario, not in the Main Arena.
Japanese and RAF aircarft are probably the best. After the first merges and down to the deck, Spitfire IXs and N1K2s will (almost) always kick your arse. Of course I'm talking about the average player.
Every online sim needs LW "fanatic", both in MA and Scenarios. Simply there would be not enuff players on the dark side and/or you would see furballs made up almost only by RAF/USAF/Japanese a/c.
In a late war environment like AH it takes balls to fly 109s and FWs. When Hispanos and Brownings can hit at 800yds+ with devastating effects, killing even tanks, it takes balls to fight with Mausers. Try to intercept a massive B17 raid with a 190A-8 at 25K and you'll find why 1941-43 scenarios are more interesting than 1944-45's :)
Everyone should be able to fly the preferred aircraft in a balanced arena. Our 1944-45 plane set often doesnt help the axis side. A more balanced plane set and *maybe* a rolling one could help, I dunno.
Thats why sometimes is tiring to fly for the dark side and thats why sometimes theres anymosity in arena ;) Just MHO.
[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: gatt ]
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Ya Gatt, outrunning everything but late war D-Pony's and diving in and destroying the best allied planes in a Dora is a real MA bummer.
You guys are incredible.
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I know my english is not very good. Sorry. What I meant is that a late 1943-45 Main Arena (or scenario) is not an easy place for the average LW pilot. It is easier for a RAF/Japanese pilot. And this doesnt mean that RAF/Japanese pilots are not good. Only that is easier. When I fly the Spitfire IX instead of my C.205, AH is *another* game for me. Still, a good Spit IX pilot can kick my bellybutton easily.
I dont think that outrunning almost everything in the arena in a Dora is fun for anyone. At some time you have to come down and slow down to hit something ...
Personally I'm not good at flying 109s and FWs but I respect those pilots. Sometimes you can loose your temper flying that crappy 109G-6 :)
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Seems like you suck, which is normal Gat. most of us do...
Pick up on the BnZ thing, helped me alot.
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Well, it is easier to fight them if you hate them. But it is only role playing for me. When I take a 109 or 190 up, I am looking for an Allied oportunist to shoot down. Be that Spitfire, P-51 or Spitjug. If I can make them angry, even better. Thus I would strafe chutes of Spitdweebs like Nashwan is.
Corsairs are necessary evil, LW never fought them. Same with Niks, hate fighting them - no immersion.
I really don't like fighting other LW planes, takes away immersion.
The best experience is to teach some American ingorant that his P-51 isn't so good as his daddy told him. That alone is worth 14.95$ ;).
Flying certain planes in 1944 is really challenge. Like fighting with one hand tied on your back. 190A-8 allows no mistakes against P-51 or F4U. However, I just might not want do allow the opportunists that chance. If I ever get back to AH, it is G-10 again. Until I get perkies for 262. The opportunists deserve no less.
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I respect both, I think both are glamorous. Flying as LW, IJN, VVS, RAF, AIC, it's just depending in what mood I am.
Anyway, when u are a true plane lover, they are all beautifull :D :D :D
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LW?? RAF??
Peasants.
The planes and pilots that won the war?
American.
And that's the name of THAT tune.
:)
(asbestos suit on back order... oh, toejam!)
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Hangtime!!!!
Whooooosssssssshhhhhhhhh
Smell of burned meat
:D
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LOL your all wrong! Russian planes rule the skies!
Seriously I've been flying both sides in the new CT, and frankly have been surprised at how much fun each sides rides can be.
Turning low on the deck in a spit as 190's circle & bounce you. No alt, no E & no speed and still racking up 4 kills and landing them.
Or grabbing 15k in a 190 to get in a mixed dogfight of tiffy's, jugs & spits. Landed a 3 kill sortie that seemed to last all night.
Live & let live guys, after all, who else in the world even understands what you get so excited about?
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Originally posted by Creamo:
Seems like you suck, which is normal Gat. most of us do...
Definitely ;)
Pick up on the BnZ thing, helped me alot.
Nhaa, I dont like to fly like a vulture, diving at 500mph and then run away ;) But I'm still learning, give me time :)
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Pongo hit the nail on the head and solidly drove it in. :)
Because there are anal screwed up people waving both flags.
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well now.... that is funny... hazed telling me, or anyone for that matter, that they get all upset and take things too seriously.... sheesh bud... thot you were gonna cry on your last flag waving set of posts!
Here's how it shakes out in general... LW guys have gone the whole route in imitation of real germans in the flight sims I have seen... They are arrogant braggarts when things are modeled in their favor (wrong) and whinie little girls who plead for people to be sensitive to their plight when things are not going their way (modeled correctly)... soooo... the simple rule is.... if the LW sissies like it, it's bad for the game. If they are crying about it then it is probly pretty close and a lot more fun. They confuse picking their fight with skill and having a plane with a different set of virtues a skill... They brag about how much skill it takes to fly em when in reality they are quite simple and, hour for hour, they are simply getting less real combat experiance by flying em... if they are forced to fite they become much less "elite" they are relatively easy kills for the most part. squaddies who fly real fighters usually, have no trouble getting in the top ten in LWplanes if they bother.
having said that... there should be no rivalry between the fun but limited RAF planes and the unfun but limited LW planes as in the real late war none of the puny little, short ranged planes of either side could fite anyone unless they came to them. jap and U.S. planes were of, course, not so short ranged and short sighted, they were ahead of their time and understood what was important.
I hope that i've cleared all that up for the new guys.... for the rest of you it will simply be stating the obvious.
lazs
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Dont take this as an angry reply but i find it quite amusing that anyone can start on about LW running from fights when for almost a year the P51D was the fastest plane and was constantly running.
Its not the fact that it happens, its the fact that certain types keep mentioning it.
my personal experience of AH from beta.
Loved the game and flew all types.P51ds used to frustrate me when they ran,the deaths from f4ucs were frustrating because even lucky hits sent you down,and certain damage effects seemed to be a tad to common ie engine deaths etc.It seems all sides have similar trouble though, yaks, p38s, 190s, tempests(?)
when we got the dora we at last had something to catch the p51d or outrun it.Suddenly LW pilots were called the runners, its quite comical, but i guess inevitable.
The real reason for all the trouble is that most people in this game are passionate about planes and are highly competative with a little touch of sulking thrown in, come on admit it we all get annoyed at times.
The only thing that truely angers me is being accused of being a Nazi because i fly LW stuff.Its all roadkill.If this was a star wars game id fly tie fighters because as a kid i liked the look of them more than the x-wing.Its a game and playing the bad guy is just another role.Sometimes i fly spits and act like the typical brit shouting 'tally ho' and 'thats not cricket' for fun and to lighten the mood.Its what i enjoy and i pay the same so i should be able to play this game how i like without idiots accusing me of rediculous political views.
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Don't ya just hate it when people fly planes according to their strengths and attack other planes according to that planes weaknesses?
Sheesh! Why don't they fly their planes incorrectly and attack stupidly?
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hazed... here's a clue to help u figure it out... the current plane that is the best runner is often called "runner" in the arena.
As toad says.. fly your plane to it's strengths and don't wory about it. That works pretty well most times in a crowded arena. you can ignore the high 51's or 109's because hey... they gotta come down ta kill ya and most won't bother to lose all that e and take a chance someone in the crowd will whack em or that they can't get back into their high alt foxhole before some other alt monkey makes a meal out of them. Also.... The dora... who cares? mostly when squaddies see a 190 we go "eeeew, a 190!" when it pulls away from us we turn back saying "forget it it's a dora" disapointing but... lots of other planes to fite but.....
when there is not many planes in the arena or in the area.... the situation and feelings about parity change.... no one wants to be B&Z'ed over and over by a 51 that has nothing else to do and is in no danger... no one wants to watch the 51 r dora give up and run with impunity when the fite goes against em.
obviously, some sort of RPS or segregation by ac abilities would make things more fair more of the time.
lazs
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And for all those players saying "There isn't enough amurican iron in the CT"
Who ya gonna fly against?
The LW numbers are low as is, and there are only really 2 more LW aircraft to add to the CT setup....
puts gun to pilot's head.. turn this plane around!!!
SKurj
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Chit Hazed, me great gramps was Black Watch also. My Dad still has his Cap Badge. As was tradition in the field, buddies would switch caps badges with each other so that if they died, the other had his Cap Badge to bring home to his parents. We have the letter from the government stating that he was killed in action framed and on the wall along with his cap badge. From what i was told, he was hit by artilley and not much was left of him.
Will have to get more info from me Dad.
Dog out...........
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I have no animosity towards any side. I just like to rib everyone and have a good time :)
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Ahh Americans won the war in Europe, huh ? When they came, it was all over.
Eastern Front had battles of epic proportions on a daily basis. If there was no Eastern Front, there would have been a lot of swimming back to England on June 6th ;).
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Yah need new bait, Hristo.
Pyro already locked that thread.
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Originally posted by Hristo:
Ahh Americans won the war in Europe, huh ? When they came, it was all over.
Eastern Front had battles of epic proportions on a daily basis. If there was no Eastern Front, there would have been a lot of swimming back to England on June 6th ;).
Errr, negative, the first Atomic bomb would have been used in Berlin instead...it would have been a nice tourist attraction today. :)
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I had a fun flight in an Fw190D-9 last night. Landed after downing two N1K2-Js and one Spitfire MkVb.
Great plane, just don't turn in it.
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Hey Hristo..
Pfffffffffffft.
:)
[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: Hangtime ]
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i dont think america would have nukes germany. there simply wasnt the same level of hatred for the krauts as for the japanese. my dads friend who fought in ww2 has 3 kraut slugs still in his leg, but he only detests the japanese. i think its because they were so different from us and because of the way they treated POWs.
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The undeclared attack on Pearl has something do to with it also I think.
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The nukes were planned for Berlin the entire time they were being developed. Germany's surrender is all that spared it.
I think we would have. Remember, we didn't know about the nasty after effects, as far as we knew it was just a big explosion.
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Doesn't change the fact. Germany lost millions of best soldiers on Eastern front, as well as thousands of planes. By 1944 there were only remains of the former force. Western Front was just a side show for Wehrmacht.
Just compare number of Jgs in the West and East after 1941.
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Hristo,
Compare the number of JGs in the west from 1944 on to those in the east. The JGs moved back west as the bombing campaign picked up steam.
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Don't ya just hate it when people fly planes according to their strengths and attack other planes according to that
planes weaknesses?
Sheesh! Why don't they fly their planes incorrectly and attack stupidly?
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Toad
But Toad: that's *exactly* what the allies does.
Those peasant farmers wouldn't be allowed near even a paper plane in Germany.
:D
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Originally posted by Staga:
In that case HTC needs to model one plane already existing in AH without additional armour-plates ;)
That is fair isn't it :)
It is this kind of thing that makes me frusterated.
Every single bloody thread I start that isn't about Luftwaffe aircraft gets these off topic insertions by Luftwaffe fans. The only threads of mine that are safe are threads I start about Luftwaffe aircraft.
Staga,
I assume you were talking about the Fw190A-8 or Fw190F-8. That's nice.
It would be fair if the Luftwaffe fans has a 1942 fighter as their main fighter.
For every advantage you can point out about the RAF planeset I can point out an advantage of the Luftwaffe planeset and for every disadvantage you can point out about the Luftwaffe planeset I can point out a disadvantage of the RAF planeset.
The bad thing is, I'll bet we agree on most counts.
I haven't even got a problem with your request for more armor for whatever aircraft the request was about, make it tougher than an Il-2 for all I care. I only have a problem with where you asked for it.
[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
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Karnak you had a proposal and I just showed where it leads.
There's no room for double-standards in AH imo.
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Staga,
What is this? A competition to see if we can make sure the other guy's stuff is crap?
Shall I then campaign ceaselessly against the Me410B-2 and He177A-5?
What I don't understand is why the Luftwaffe fans treat it like a competition. It isn't. We can all fly everything, and some of us do.
Also, what double standard are you talking about? The Fw190D-9 has MW50. If there was some double standard it wouldn't.
Sure, the A-8 or F-8 could be tougher (I'd like to see your data on what we have and what you want) but I don't see a double standard anywhere.
Quite frankly, I don't see any kind of standard anywhere.
[ 09-07-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
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What is this? A competition to see if we can make sure the other guy's stuff is crap?
If it ain't Scottish, It's Crap!