Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Penguin on June 19, 2011, 03:56:30 PM
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Hey guys!
I just got called up to join my highschool's new debate team. I feel great, I've never been picked first for anything, and getting called up to my highschool's team is amazing. I'm planning on doing extemporaneous speech and group discussion. Do any of you have experience in these competitions?
I have a few questions:
Are there any drills that I can do?
Are there any stars that I can look up to and learn from?
Are there any pitfalls that I should avoid?
For those of you who do not, but have debated me before, do you have any pointers on how I can get an edge on my competition?
-Penguin
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One piece of advice I can give you is this.
While you must support your position with factual information. Do what I do, emotional appeals shrouding fact.. will win your debates every time IF AND WHEN! it is being judged by audience consensus. When judged by a panel.. fact only..
Play an audience, convince a panel.
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I think the biggest thing you can do to help yourself in debate is to debate against yourself. As in pretend your the other side and try to support their arguments and debunk your own. Understanding their stance is the most important thing.
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gnucks has a good idea...just don't make the mistakes you have been making (i.e. japanese poop) to argue either side.
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Study logical fallacies.
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My dad went to state a couple of times in debate. He usually judges them now
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Hey guys!
I just got called up to join my highschool's new debate team. I feel great, I've never been picked first for anything, and getting called up to my highschool's team is amazing. I'm planning on doing extemporaneous speech and group discussion. Do any of you have experience in these competitions?
I have a few questions:
Are there any drills that I can do?
Are there any stars that I can look up to and learn from?
Are there any pitfalls that I should avoid?
For those of you who do not, but have debated me before, do you have any pointers on how I can get an edge on my competition?
-Penguin
Well, if I'm trying to make a point I am normally blunt with it. Be stubborn and never give up
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if you cant amaze them with brilliance, baffle em with bulls...crap :D
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I go around offending the other team, and that the reason i'm not on my schools debate team. Although I can keep up a debate with my mom going for a few days. :rofl Maybe I should take things more seriously.
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Study logical fallacies.
+1000
Was often able to win by ripping apart the logic and leaving the facts alone.
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gnucks has a good idea...just don't make the mistakes you have been making (i.e. japanese poop) to argue either side.
ur high school must be pretty :rolleyes:
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+1000
Was often able to win by ripping apart the logic and leaving the facts alone.
Good, I've got a pretty good understanding of them now, but are there any drills that I can do to recognize them while under pressure?
-Penguin
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ur high school must be pretty :rolleyes:
you jealous? maybe you should have stayed in school.
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Echo the fallacy point. I did some debate at the university level and the good ones utilize all the other points around the framework of being brilliant at logical fallacies.
I'm sure you seen now but they have different rules, about who goes for how long, responses, etc. I would also do a lot of video work on Youtube to get comfortable with how they go about it. There are also several books that deal with fallacies. I would get one and memorize each and every fallacy, then work to find and apply those fallacies at the drop of a hat. All you need to do is find one fallacy in the opponents argument to terminate them.
Oh, and have debate on your college application is a big time bonus. I recently took my daughter to Vanderbilt for student orientation and the admissions counselor stressed these applicants get higher consideration for enrollment and frequently receive scholarships because of it.
Let us know how it goes and don't give up, no matter how bad you get manhandled in the beginning. Its like playing this game, it takes time and no matter how gifted one thinks they are someone who is better trained and prepared will always beat their brains out. Be patient and be the better trained and prepared debater. A marathon.
Boo
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if you cant amaze them with brilliance, baffle em with bulls...crap :D
:rofl :aok
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Echo the fallacy point. I did some debate at the university level and the good ones utilize all the other points around the framework of being brilliant at logical fallacies.
I'm sure you seen now but they have different rules, about who goes for how long, responses, etc. I would also do a lot of video work on Youtube to get comfortable with how they go about it. There are also several books that deal with fallacies. I would get one and memorize each and every fallacy, then work to find and apply those fallacies at the drop of a hat. All you need to do is find one fallacy in the opponents argument to terminate them.
Oh, and have debate on your college application is a big time bonus. I recently took my daughter to Vanderbilt for student orientation and the admissions counselor stressed these applicants get higher consideration for enrollment and frequently receive scholarships because of it.
Let us know how it goes and don't give up, no matter how bad you get manhandled in the beginning. Its like playing this game, it takes time and no matter how gifted one thinks they are someone who is better trained and prepared will always beat their brains out. Be patient and be the better trained and prepared debater. A marathon.
Boo
Would you mind PMing me the titles of these books? This looks like it's going to be a tall order. :O
-Penguin
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here is a link that will give you a decent start until you find the book(s) you're looking for.
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html (http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html)
there are a few that you may recognize pertaining to you...found a few pointing ugly crooked fingers at me :D
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This is definitely no end-all be-all guide on fallacies, but it's a pretty good (and relatively short) summary of them imo
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/
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Agree to disagree.
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know the points your opponent will make against you. then decide the best words to counter them.
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If worse comes to worse and your losing badly... punch the guy in the face. Nothing makes a point like a broken jaw and as the saying goes, "might makes right".
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Get a girlfriend
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Get a girlfriend
:rofl
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A frustrated penguin after being schooled in a debate.
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/106/814/Penguin-come-at-me-bro.gif?1300395953)
Oh no, penguin, don't make a scene. :(
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I'm on the road so give me a couple days and I will send you the title. In the mean time this link takes you to a few useful titles on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_13?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=debate+skills&sprefix=debate+skills#/ref=sr_pg_1?rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Adebate+skills&keywords=debate+skills&ie=UTF8&qid=1308628530
As for the humorous support to get a girlfriend, I agree. Get a scholarship to Harvard, Yale, Vanderbilt, Brigham Young, etc, score an awesome spot at grad school, get a job paying $100k when you are 25 and see what caliber of hotties you have to chose from as you look for a girlfriend. Or go down to the trailer park, either one.
Actually, having been in literally thousands of debates I get carried away. You can fully engage or just have fun. If you want to fully engage find one of these books and immerse yourself in it, own it. If you want to have fun I suggest you pick 4 or 5 fallacies and study them. Consider these 4 or 5 fallacies your 'go to move' and every chance you get nail someone with them. Winning is fun, whether dog fights or debates, making the other guy storm off stage left is just fun.
Boo
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Good, I've got a pretty good understanding of them now, but are there any drills that I can do to recognize them while under pressure?
-Penguin
Other than just knowing them backwards and forwards... no.
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If they ask a question your not sure of, simply say....
Not being informed of the highest degree of accuracy I hesitate to articulate for fear I may deviate from the true course of rectitude.
If you do answer a question and they question your answer simply say......
Do you have the audacity to doubt my veracity or insinuate that I prevaricate?
:D
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There are lots of logical fallacies you only need the basics. Most statements include one or more of the basic ones.
Ad hominem
Contradiction
Excluded middle
Begging the question or non arbitrary circular reasoning .
Quantity
Reification
Strawman
Appeal to authority
Equivocation
Complex question
Good luck there penguin . :salute
Try ...being logical, discerning truth, non-sense by gula, those come to mind and you can get on kindle.
Also read books on the opposite perspective to find what they think are there best arguments.
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Get a girlfriend
Now Penguin is the one without a gf, I scored a few days ago with a really cute girl with a sweet country accent. :)
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Now Penguin is the one without a gf, I scored a few days ago with a really cute girl with a sweet country accent. :)
Well, I have a 5ft 2 Brunette with absolutely gorgeous eyes... not too shabby on the physical side either. So I win...
But I agree with the initial statment.
Penguin... PLEASE.. get a girlfriend.
P.S In debates, this is the site I use as a reference http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
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Well, I have a 5ft 2 Brunette with absolutely gorgeous eyes... not too shabby on the physical side either. So I win...
But I agree with the initial statment.
Penguin... PLEASE.. get a girlfriend.
yeah right, your girlfriend is circular with a wedge missing from the mouth side. C'on I saw you two, eating pink and blue ghosts in your 2D 16 color world.
(http://static.rbytes.net/full_screenshots/z/e/zenwaw-pacman.jpg)
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Penguin does have a girlfirend........her name is Palmela Handerson
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Well, I have a 5ft 2 Brunette with absolutely gorgeous eyes... not too shabby on the physical side either. So I win...
But I agree with the initial statment.
Penguin... PLEASE.. get a girlfriend.
P.S In debates, this is the site I use as a reference http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
There's the right girl for every man, just don't go to the girls who watch anime all the time, their scary. :uhoh
Penguin does have a girlfirend........her name is Pamela Handerson
:O :O What has been Google'd can not be UN-Goggle'd :cry
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yeah right, your girlfriend is circular with a wedge missing from the mouth side. C'on I saw you two, eating pink and blue ghosts in your 2D 16 color world.
(http://static.rbytes.net/full_screenshots/z/e/zenwaw-pacman.jpg)
SHE WAS IN THE PAST MAN! CANT YOU LET IT GO! :D
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There's the right girl for every man, just don't go to the girls who watch anime all the time, their scary. :uhoh
:O :O What has been Google'd can not be UN-Goggle'd :cry
I will not google 'Pamela Anderson', thank you for sparing me the agony. Furthermore, I concur with your point about those anime girls. There's just something messed up about them. On the other hand, they probably say the same thing about guys who fly cartoon airplanes. :cool:
As for the advice to get a girlfriend; I just don't think that I could handle it. I don't really need one, either, it seems like a lot of work and money spent. I'm so cheap I make Ebenezer Scrooge seem frivolous.
-Penguin
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As for the advice to get a girlfriend; I just don't think that I could handle it. I don't really need one, either, it seems like a lot of work and money spent.
Amen.