Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: VonKost on June 22, 2011, 04:25:59 PM
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So I flew my first sortie with the perked Mosquito bomber last night. I might be doing it wrong, but I was not too impressed, especially considering the perk price. I took it up to about 18k and made a few high speed runs on some towns until a P-51 came up to chase. I headed for friendly territory with some bombs still on board. The pony was slowly gaining when a 262 jumped in :mad: I had to maneuver to avoid his passes and of coarse lost my drones and 80 odd perks. With no other defensive option but stay fast and maneuver I think the drones might stay home next time. I did manage to dive bomb a tank before landing, but overall I'm not sure I'll take it up again.
What is the consensus on this bomber? Should I have taken it higher? What in particular is the 4000lb bomb good for?
S!
LeMay
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Should I have taken it higher?
Yes, definitely.
That is, unless it's just a short dash to a frontline enemy base with no much need for maneuvering and you expect no enemy fighter cover at that altitude (18k) in time. In a battle situation or if you go behind the enemy lines you have to take her higher. The Mossie is fast, but not fast enough to completely run away from any enemy fighter it comes across at 18k, and there are quite a few players (like me) that do fly high alt cap over any potential targets. The best altitude for high cruise speed is 27k. And while it's quite unlikely to come across enemy fighters at that altitude, you still gotta keep up your SA, particularly if you fly deep into enemy territory. Watch the map, look out for darbars appearing in your path. It might be an interceptor...
What in particular is the 4000lb bomb good for?
Score. ;)
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The Mossi B Mk 16 can be caught by a few aircraft up at 28,000 ft, its best altitude. Up that high, you are moving at over 400mph TAS if you are void of bmobs. Even if aircraft get up that high, you will have been sailing along at 405 TAS or so and they just might run out of fuel trying to catch up.
The 4,000 lb "cookie" is good for a lot of things, not just "score" as the chart maker himself proclaims. :) If you are able to get into the area safely, use them vs CV's, shore batteries, HQ runs, etc. Just remember the faster you are moving and the higher you go the larger the the impact zone becomes.
Me? I think the perk cost is too high. I'm sure Lusche can produce a chart showing how much it is used vs other medium bombers. :D
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Me? I think the perk cost is too high. I'm sure Lusche can produce a chart showing how much it is used vs other medium bombers. :D
No I can't. Bomber usage, especially those models keen on avoiding the enemy (unarmed and/or perked), can't really be judged by evaluating kills and deaths.
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So I flew my first sortie with the perked Mosquito bomber last night. I might be doing it wrong, but I was not too impressed, especially considering the perk price. I took it up to about 18k and made a few high speed runs on some towns until a P-51 came up to chase. I headed for friendly territory with some bombs still on board. The pony was slowly gaining when a 262 jumped in :mad: I had to maneuver to avoid his passes and of coarse lost my drones and 80 odd perks. With no other defensive option but stay fast and maneuver I think the drones might stay home next time. I did manage to dive bomb a tank before landing, but overall I'm not sure I'll take it up again.
What is the consensus on this bomber? Should I have taken it higher? What in particular is the 4000lb bomb good for?
S!
LeMay
Flying one right now in early war no perk points for this bad boy in here & nothing can catch you. :aok
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Flying one right now in early war no perk points for this bad boy in here & nothing can catch you. :aok
In Early War? It first carried bombs in January, 1944. It should not be available in Early War.
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In Early War? It first carried bombs in January, 1944. It should not be available in Early War.
Neither should P47M,N B24 SpitXVI Firefly & a whole bunch of other stuff. It is a glitch that shows up every so often with that map in there at the moment.
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To the OP, I would advise leaving the drones behind so that you are free to maneuver. If you keep a watch out you will be almost impossible to intercept by anything with piston engines. A Bf109K-4 taking off as the Mosquito XVI passes over it at 27,000ft and 400mph would need to run at WEP for nearly an hour, IIRC, to catch the Mosquito once it had matched altitude with the Mosquito. Obviously that is not possible. That impossibility pushes the interceptor into trying to position himself in front of the Mosquito's path, but with the plethora of targets in AH you can just choose a new target when you see a DAR bar ahead of you.
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Thanks for the replies! I been thinking over the possibilities here. ;)
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The drones really don't stay with the lead plane well. I lost them last night trying to lose altitude to land decending at @ 4k/min at 250IAS. The drones wouldn't come down from 20K.
I've also outrun my drones and lost them.
:cry
wrongway
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Got to remember that the Mossie acts like a heavy fighter, while the drones act like all the other drones. Have to be very careful with them.
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buff drone pilots arent exactly the best AI pilots out there, but they were really scraping the bottom of the barrel when they picked the mossie drone pilots. those guys are idiots :rolleyes:
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I've used the new Mossie bomber a time or two as well. Never with drones. They're best when you can come in drop and keep on going. Great for dropping the VH at a port for example. But the last time I flew one I was chased down and caught by a F4U D model. During WWII the Mossie was one of fastest airplanes in the air. As stated above its only defense being its speed. I don't know if that is accurately modeled here or not.
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The best altitude for high cruise speed is 27k. And while it's quite unlikely to come across enemy fighters at that altitude, you still gotta keep up your SA, particularly if you fly deep into enemy territory.
If you are flying at 27k, you might as well fly offline. You might actually see more opposition there....
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If you are flying at 27k, you might as well fly offline. You might actually see more opposition there....
Excuse me, but when flying an unarmed bomber you do want to avoid enemy fighters - that's about your only defense. And you are also wrong on your guess about the opposition. There are a few players willing to prowl up there (myself included). Last week I spent one afternoon in buffs bombing strats at 25-30k and shot down 5 fighters during that time. I doubt that would have happend offline ;)
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I've used the new Mossie bomber a time or two as well. Never with drones. They're best when you can come in drop and keep on going. Great for dropping the VH at a port for example. But the last time I flew one I was chased down and caught by a F4U D model. During WWII the Mossie was one of fastest airplanes in the air. As stated above its only defense being its speed. I don't know if that is accurately modeled here or not.
It is one of the fastest bombers of the war, doing better than 400mph at emergency power. Even on lesser power it still did about 390mph.
However, let us not forget that its claim to fame was being hard to INTERCEPT, not hard to catch. In a straight tail chase, many planes are faster than it. In an attempt to climb up to in and shoot it down with short notice, most fighters were found lacking.
As for your F4U-1D:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=110&p2=11&pw=2>ype=0)
Depending on the altitude he would have had an easier time or a harder time, but it looks like he could catch you.
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However, let us not forget that its claim to fame was being hard to INTERCEPT, not hard to catch. In a straight tail chase, many planes are faster than it. In an attempt to climb up to in and shoot it down with short notice, most fighters were found lacking.
Think about it this way:
Even with 20 mph advantage, a failed intercept that turned into a 10 miles tail-chance will take half an hour just to close the gap. Many light interceptors had very short legs and going balls out for half an hour will run them dry before any actual fight. This is in daylight - mosquitoes flew mostly at night and long tail chases were usually hopeless.
Also there is a difference between the "fastest" in terms of maximum attainable speed and "fastest" in terms of time to complete a long flight course. Who is the fastest runner? the one that wins in 100 m dash or the one that wins a mile race? The mosquito was among the fastest in short dash and unmatched in long distance running. Since its introduction till well into 1943 its chances of running into something that could catch it either way were slim. Even with the later speed demons it stood a good chance of escaping into clouds or out of view.
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Haven't lost one of these yet. Best tactical bomber (in a narrow niche) in the game IMO.
Keys to success:
1) Leave the drones home. As noted, they aren't the best pilots :rolleyes:
2) Cookie + 2x500lb or all 500lb depending on mission choice
3) Climb to AT LEAST 20k
4) Best to stay out of contested airspace unless you feel lucky. Fringes of contested airspace - fine
5) Cookie on high value targets, 500lb on radar/ord
6) Similar to the AR234, count on one full sector to settle speed and calibrate
If approached by a co-alt con, LONG shallow dive to friendly territory, WEP as needed. I've outrun a 109K4 and '47M this way - but it was close.
Without drones, it will almost handle like a heavy fighter. Almost.
On the upside, once you drop you can maniacally dive to the nearest friendly airfield. It makes for a shorter duration bombing run.
Just my $0.02
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As can be seen on the chart Krusty linked, the F4U-1D cannot catch a Mosquito XVI at 28,000ft as the F4U's WEP speed at that altitude is the same as the Mosquito's MIL speed.
I'll disagree with Mystery on penetrating enemy airspace. If you climb to 27,000-28,000ft and watch the DAR bars you can go just about anywhere you like that is within fuel range.
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Excuse me, but when flying an unarmed bomber you do want to avoid enemy fighters - that's about your only defense.
Quite right. But still you gotta love these brave virtual warriors, eh? :) So *virtually* brave but they got sh*t where the brain should be. :)
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personally,i like the bombers.although i dont fly em as much as 29s,when i do fly them i take the SINGLE plane and stay tree top level.once i get close to enemy town,i pop to about 3 and pickle off bombs (500 pounders) in a slight dive.then its time to dip,full power wep it outta there.the only defence that plane has is speed.
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Quite right. But still you gotta love these brave virtual warriors, eh? :) So *virtually* brave but they got sh*t where the brain should be. :)
It has nothing to do with being brave, flying at that alt is to avoid people in a online GAME makes little sense to me. I guess I am crazy that I want to see other people in an online game.
Enjoy flying at 27k, at that alt you wont see most of the community, but that is the plan anyway.
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Enjoy flying at 27k, at that alt you wont see most of the community, but that is the plan anyway.
In a totally unarmed plane: Yes, it is. When I want do mix it up with most of them, I chose a different plane.
I do want to avoid "most" (not all!) of the community when flying a Mossie 16. I don't even need "most of them"l to have fun. With that plane, after spending the perks on a formation it needs only one stubborn fighter to turn a boring milkrun into a very exciting mission. And that is also true for a fighter: I do love it to hunt those difficult to catch high altitude bombers instead of just slaughtering the standard 10k Lanc. I love to guess plane type, altitude, probable target and flight path just from the map, then choosing the right plane and interception path. It's quite satisfying to have successfully hunted down such an elusive target. The comparison with "flying offline" is simply untrue. When I fly B-17', Ki-67s or B-29's at 20-30k, I get attacked almost every sortie.
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In a totally unarmed plane: Yes, it is. When I want do mix it up with most of them, I chose a different plane.
I do want to avoid "most" (not all!) of the community when flying a Mossie 16. I don't even need "most of them"l to have fun. With that plane, after spending the perks on a formation it needs only one stubborn fighter to turn a boring milkrun into a very exciting mission. And that is also true for a fighter: I do love it to hunt those difficult to catch high altitude bombers instead of just slaughtering the standard 10k Lanc. I love to guess plane type, altitude, probable target and flight path just from the map, then choosing the right plane and interception path. It's quite satisfying to have successfully hunted down such an elusive target. The comparison with "flying offline" is simply untrue. When I fly B-17', Ki-67s or B-29's at 20-30k, I get attacked almost every sortie.
But you see...if you don't fly the game their way you must be wrong and could just as well be flying offline. :rolleyes:
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It has nothing to do with being brave, flying at that alt is to avoid people in a online GAME makes little sense to me. I guess I am crazy that I want to see other people in an online game.
Enjoy flying at 27k, at that alt you wont see most of the community, but that is the plan anyway.
The beauty of this game is that if we have 5000 players there is 5000 potential ways some one is going to fly that mosquito. That is the best part of this entire game in my mind. You just don't know what the other guy may do.
Anything else with a cookie cutter mind set of I don't think it should be done that way do it this you may as well play an arcade game where no matter what no where this is what is going to happen.
http://www.freespaceinvaders.org/
:lol Forgot how much fun this was 30 years ago. :bolt:
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I only use it on CV's and HQ, and only as a single. If you don't get caught great, but if caught 3x80 point lost is too much for my liking. :airplane:
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Neither should P47M,N B24 SpitXVI Firefly & a whole bunch of other stuff. It is a glitch that shows up every so often with that map in there at the moment.
You seem to have forgotten to have mentioned the B-17 C, D, E, and F.
:D
:bolt:
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It has nothing to do with being brave, flying at that alt is to avoid people in a online GAME makes little sense to me. I guess I am crazy that I want to see other people in an online game.
Enjoy flying at 27k, at that alt you wont see most of the community, but that is the plan anyway.
When I play once a week at best, I won't see most of the community anyway.
When I play once a week, I amass enough perks to lose a formation of perk bombers once every three months.
Thinking about it, I guess it really would make little sense to you; I'm sure you get to play on a nightly basis,
have amassed thousands of perks, and have had enough virtual stick time to master an airframe.
Hell, you're practically famous here.
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What great timing.
Hap flew a mission yesterday with a formation of Mossie XVIs. It was my first time using it and with the cookie, all 8 of us were able to drop two fields for a hastily-approaching Chewie mission. I loved it so much I took it up again today, with the 2x 500# and 4x 500#ers. Again, in a formation although at 20K and no opposition, I will opt for single-ship next time to lower the risk. It does great. Give it a sector to stretch its legs and it can drop 6x different radars in under 20 minutes with its speed. I landed ~6200 damage today, dropping 4 dars and the remaining two hard points on a town. Love it but I agree, costs is WAYYY too high.
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So I flew my first sortie with the perked Mosquito bomber last night. I might be doing it wrong, but I was not too impressed, especially considering the perk price. I took it up to about 18k and made a few high speed runs on some towns until a P-51 came up to chase. I headed for friendly territory with some bombs still on board. The pony was slowly gaining when a 262 jumped in :mad: I had to maneuver to avoid his passes and of coarse lost my drones and 80 odd perks. With no other defensive option but stay fast and maneuver I think the drones might stay home next time. I did manage to dive bomb a tank before landing, but overall I'm not sure I'll take it up again.
What is the consensus on this bomber? Should I have taken it higher? What in particular is the 4000lb bomb good for?
S!
LeMay
i see your mossie story, and raise you worse one.
was doing a single mossie-mutiple bomb runs on the rook HQ one morning (was rearming&reupping)
was ib to target when i noticed a tempest flown by a certain female pilot about 4k down from me. at first i didnt think she saw me, until she began to climb. i hit WEP, and sped to target as fast as i can.
drop'ed bombs, and headed straight for home. for about 25mins we went at it. me trying to outrun her, her trying to catch up. after running for about 3 sectors she was 1.5k behind me. until she finally turned around due to fuel.
i felt relieved, and decided to land at a friendly base very close to the lines.
so with the feeling of my pride swell at outrunning this pesky tempest hovered in my chest, i decended down to the deck, slowed my speed, put my wheels down, just about to touch down......................... ........................
.....and an f4u comes screaming out of no wheres, shooting me just as i touch down. i went boom on the runway.
i went from : :D :airplane: :neener:
to: :confused: :uhoh :furious :bhead :cry :(
(the tempest pilot had actually complained on 200 about me not turning around to fight her, i asked her how she expected me to dogfight a tempy in a plane with no guns. she didnt respond)
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You seem to have forgotten to have mentioned the B-17 C, D, E, and F.
:D
:bolt:
The B17 was not an option when the bug shows up on the map in question in early war.
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I read everybody in here. Some good thoughts, some bad thoughts, and some very poor SA.
The Mossie16 is a special kind of bird because it gives you a sense of freedom. No guns, all you have is your skill, along with some speed. YES, at 27k you'll see less skilled pilots capable of intercepting you. NO, you're not up there alone and need to keep your SA up.
-Fly the Lone Mossie16 only.
-Nothing on the wings unless you have friends.
-Always above 20k, if not 30k when you're alone. (So after your drop you can split-S home gaining E down to 27,500 ft)
(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/2589/mossieb.jpg)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6087/bigdamage.jpg)
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How many rearms to get the 214888 damage?
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I've dropped the 4k cookie in the middle of towns before. It doesn't seem to be that useful. I've dropped 4k eggs on strats inside the megastrat as well. Not very useful.
Am I correct in guessing you took the 500lb bombs for more damage points? I think you'd spend all week hotpadding for that many points with the cookie.
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I've dropped the 4k cookie in the middle of towns before. It doesn't seem to be that useful. I've dropped 4k eggs on strats inside the megastrat as well. Not very useful.
Am I correct in guessing you took the 500lb bombs for more damage points? I think you'd spend all week hotpadding for that many points with the cookie.
500 pounders will mess up your score :aok Cookie all the way. Middle of town with a bunch of rearms is the best bet by far.
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Score is broken and useless. I much rather go for points and perks. It seems to me taking less powerful but more plentiful bombs gets more points. Down to a certain point... 50kg aren't so usefull, but in a B-29 or B-24 the 2000lb bombs aren't as useful as taking 1000lb or 500 lb bombs for getting points, it seems (off the top of my head. I did some testing in one long session but didn't write it down)
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The cookie has the largest bomb blast of any bomb in AH (or at least equal to the German 1800 kg). So however many "310lb" OBJ can be reached in 1 drop is the amount of damage it can reel in. Dropping the cookie or the German 1800 kg (3960 lbs) Stuka muffin in the courtyard of the main central block in town will yield the most OBJ destroyed in one drop. Damage points wise, Im not sure if a direct hit on the HQ will yeild the same or more amount of damage than a paige full + of town building destroyed. The most damage points you can earn on an OBJ is the amount of ord it takes to destroy it.
The cookie is useful. HQ, SB, CV's, hangers, etc. When dropping them on hangers, the precision does not have to be as good since the bomb blast is quite large. Go offline sometime and see just how far away from a hanger you can hit and still destroy it.
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I just did a Ki-67 sortie to test the fifteen 50kg loadout. I dropped fifteen, five from each bomber, on three town centers. Damage landed was between 12,000 and 13,000. Not sure how I'd have scored dropping three 100kg bombs on two towns and two 100kg on the last town.
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I just did a Ki-67 sortie to test the fifteen 50kg loadout. I dropped fifteen, five from each bomber, on three town centers. Damage landed was between 12,000 and 13,000. Not sure how I'd have scored dropping three 100kg bombs on two towns and two 100kg on the last town.
A good Ki-67 sortie with 8x100kg on 8 different towns can give you up to 24K landed damage.
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Hence my comment about 50kg... I've found that the 50kg is enough to damage things, but you get more points for blowing them up. So the weak blast radius will "tickle" 10 buildings (for example) whereas the 100kg will blow up 10 buildings (for example).
I think the minimum is 100kg or 250lbs for any real points. Any less and you're wasting effort for less returns. That much I found out in my testing. I was seeing if tons of tiny bombs made more points, but the bomb hit isn't as important as what you blow up with the bomb hit, and they hit but don't finish most objects.
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Almost 40, along with an overnight rest at the strat system. :uhoh I was bored one weekend.
How many rearms to get the 214888 damage?
Neg, the 4k only; for more Damage Hit Percentage. 23 buildings and a couple of guns with 1 bomb gets you a much higher percentage, which is why you see those go into the 3500% areas. And yes, it probably took a good 30 hours of flying time over a Saturday and Sunday. :lol
Am I correct in guessing you took the 500lb bombs for more damage points? I think you'd spend all week hotpadding for that many points with the cookie.
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About 40 rearms.. That's only about 5000 points per rearm.
I'm going to have to try some single runs (no formations) and see if I can get any better with the smaller bombs or not.
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Hence my comment about 50kg... I've found that the 50kg is enough to damage things, but you get more points for blowing them up. So the weak blast radius will "tickle" 10 buildings (for example) whereas the 100kg will blow up 10 buildings (for example).
I think the minimum is 100kg or 250lbs for any real points. Any less and you're wasting effort for less returns. That much I found out in my testing. I was seeing if tons of tiny bombs made more points, but the bomb hit isn't as important as what you blow up with the bomb hit, and they hit but don't finish most objects.
Im not sure it matters if you destroy it or not, only that the damage registers. At least in when your name comes up in lights. Considering perks points, yes it matters. The number of OBJ you destroy and the platform in which you use (think of the OBJ modifier) make or break your perk points.
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i see your mossie story, and raise you worse one.
was doing a single mossie-mutiple bomb runs on the rook HQ one morning (was rearming&reupping)
was ib to target when i noticed a tempest flown by a certain female pilot about 4k down from me. at first i didnt think she saw me, until she began to climb. i hit WEP, and sped to target as fast as i can.
drop'ed bombs, and headed straight for home. for about 25mins we went at it. me trying to outrun her, her trying to catch up. after running for about 3 sectors she was 1.5k behind me. until she finally turned around due to fuel.
i felt relieved, and decided to land at a friendly base very close to the lines.
so with the feeling of my pride swell at outrunning this pesky tempest hovered in my chest, i decended down to the deck, slowed my speed, put my wheels down, just about to touch down......................... ........................
.....and an f4u comes screaming out of no wheres, shooting me just as i touch down. i went boom on the runway.
i went from : :D :airplane: :neener:
to: :confused: :uhoh :furious :bhead :cry :(
(the tempest pilot had actually complained on 200 about me not turning around to fight her, i asked her how she expected me to dogfight a tempy in a plane with no guns. she didnt respond)
Lol - her name wouldn't start with a B would it? I had a similar experience in the VI once - tiffy go pop.
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The original time I posted that I said about 38. In any case, yeah, 5300 - 5600 isn't "super," there was a few sub-par drops in all those runs. - On a single 4k to a town center, I have landed 6600, maybe 6800. Not sure how much more there is on the top end though.
About 40 rearms.. That's only about 5000 points per rearm.
I'm going to have to try some single runs (no formations) and see if I can get any better with the smaller bombs or not.
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The 50kg bombs did destroy some buildings in the towns, one hit was even semi-decent, but I was pretty underwhelmed overall. I had better results with the 60kg bombs from the G4M1.
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The original time I posted that I said about 38. In any case, yeah, 5300 - 5600 isn't "super," there was a few sub-par drops in all those runs. - On a single 4k to a town center, I have landed 6600, maybe 6800. Not sure how much more there is on the top end though.
I wasn't disparaging it, as much as making a mental note on what my baseline should be :)
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With a single cookie I regularly land 7.5k damage. Just have to make sure you drop in very particular spots for maximum blast effect. With drones I can only get it up to about 9k points per sortie, so I typically take the one for sheer maneuvering capability and rearming is nice too.
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:cheers:
I wasn't disparaging it, as much as making a mental note on what my baseline should be :)
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I've had good luck with 4x 500 in the bay and the two on the wing. Climb to 25k and you can take out 4-6 dars
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I've done that before, lol!
It's rather fun, and something of a challenge to plan your route accordingly to have minimal adjustments between fields (often only 1 sector apart) so you have enough time to adjust and recalibrate for the next, all the while looking out for anybody trying to chase you down.
Good sport! I cleared an entire front of radar with a single plane sortie once using the 500lbs setup.