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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on June 24, 2011, 07:20:16 AM

Title: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Citabria on June 24, 2011, 07:20:16 AM
Saw in another thread and I agree with the logic, victors of wars giving their more glamorous equipment supposed nicknames that the enemy gave their planes like whistling death and fork tailed devil etc.

I don't buy it.

I would call them all bastards if they were enemy planes.
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: caldera on June 24, 2011, 07:27:40 AM
Bastards?  More like alt-tards, ho-tards, pick-tards, ram-tards and gang-tards.   ;)
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Reschke on June 24, 2011, 08:33:53 AM
Who knows....there aren't too many WW2 Japanese pilots left around to discredit that phrase about the Corsair and the same goes for the Luftwaffe pilots who could discredit the phrase about the P-38. Odds are they were just started by the US or Allied media at the time for propaganda purposes and they stuck.
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: oboe on June 24, 2011, 10:04:12 AM
German name for Allied bombers was 'Dicke Auto' which translates to "Fat Car" I think.   Fits with your theory of derogatory names vs glamourous ones.
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Karnak on June 24, 2011, 02:12:17 PM
To the best of my knowledge all such claims, "Fork tailed devil", "Whistling Death", "Whispering Death", and so on were all coined by Allied media.  I can't imagine a German pilot seriously calling the P-38 a "Fork Tailed Devil", nor can I seriously imagine a Japanese soldier calling a Beaufighter "Whispering Death".  I think such claims served the dual purpose of making our equipment sound like the enemy feared it and at the same time debasing the enemy to a primitive mental level that would use such terms.
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Guppy35 on June 24, 2011, 02:21:21 PM
I seem to recall the German army called the Luftwaffe 'invisible' over Normandy.

Whispering Death for the Beau had more to do with the sound of the sleeve valve engines as they did somehow muffle the sound at low level the Beau's got there before the sound, or so it seemed.

Certainly Allied propaganda was going to run with anything like that though.
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Kingpin on June 24, 2011, 02:50:07 PM
Bastards?  More like alt-tards, ho-tards, pick-tards, ram-tards and gang-tards.   ;)

LOL.

So, I just did a little research to back this idea up...  "The P-51 Mustang, known for it's excellent performance at high speed and its ability to disengage and extend from a fight, was called the Zurückgeblieben Läufer, or Retarded Runner, by Luftwaffe pilots."








OK, actually I just made that up, and I claim no command of the German language.   ;)
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Rob52240 on June 25, 2011, 04:16:45 PM
Since when does anyone give flattering nicknames to our enemies?  If that's the way the world worked I certainly wouldn't be a vTARD.   :cheers:

I can think of 1 and a half times this has happened in military history.
The first is the Mig 29 Fulcrum
the other was when the Germans were calling the US marines devil dogs in WW1 but I don't think that one was meant to be a compliment.

I also remember a Japanese zero pilot being interviewed and talking about how much he hated the corsair, and how he still hates it whenever he hears the name.  It's human nature to hold our enemies in especially low regard personally, regardless of fighting prowess.
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Buzzard7 on June 25, 2011, 07:45:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-YrzjdExs

Why wouldn't the Japanese call this Whistling Death? 4:26 into it the pilot gets her to howl pretty good.
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Harp00n on June 26, 2011, 03:36:53 AM
I remember my grandfather once told me a story about his truck-convoy being strafed by a "Gabelschwanzteufel" (somewhere in Greece or Yugoslavia) which is german for "fork-tailed-devil". Germans obviously invented this nickname.  :aok
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Raptor05121 on June 27, 2011, 08:59:39 AM
I remember my grandfather once told me a story about his truck-convoy being strafed by a "Gabelschwanzteufel" (somewhere in Greece or Yugoslavia) which is german for "fork-tailed-devil". Germans obviously invented this nickname.  :aok

Hasty generalization, my friend. Could it not be possible the American propaganda was brought the the Germans attention and they adopted it?

Food for thought.
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Harp00n on June 27, 2011, 10:05:32 AM
Could be...but back in the 40s where they had no internet, TV or even free radio (the "Volksempfaenger", the german standard-radio was not able to be tuned to "the enemy ;) ) how would you plant such a term like "Gabelschwanzteufel" into a regulars head?

Wikipedia:
Von den Piloten der deutschen Luftwaffe erhielt dieses Flugzeug wegen seines eigenartigen Äußeren und der enormen Feuerkraft den Spitznamen „Gabelschwanzteufel“.

Because of its unique/strange appearance and the enormous firepower it received the nickname "fork-tailed devil" by german Luftwaffe pilots.

Sounds plausible....  :aok
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Guppy35 on June 27, 2011, 02:16:30 PM
I have numerous Beaufighter pilot and Nav biographies, and almost to a man they mention the Beau being called "Whispering Death".  Interestingly enough the MTO/ETO guys claim the Germans came up with the phrase, and the PTO/CBI guys say it's the Japanese.

I don't doubt the aircrew believed this to be true.  At the same time it suggests the phrase was probably Allied propaganda that made it's way into the conversation in whichever theater of the war the Beau was flying.
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: TeeArr on June 27, 2011, 08:52:27 PM
I know for a fact that German pilots referred to B-17s (and perhaps all heavy bombers) as "Boeings".  Most of the best information still resides in first person accounts of the air war, and biographies taken from first person accounts.  I strongly suggest you read some of these.  Just because you would have called the "Bastards", or such, remember that it was over 70 years ago, American, Japanese, and German cultures had different ways of expressing things.  People didn't curse, or use "four letter words" :old: for effect the way we do today.
Just my humble opinion.
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: Changeup on June 28, 2011, 08:13:37 PM
Bastards?  More like alt-tards, ho-tards, pick-tards, ram-tards and gang-tards.   ;)
Dont forget...altfairies, HOmonger, and JUGgler's fav...the undeniable ALTRAMHOTARD pilot
Title: Re: der gruben flugen ze teuful and whistling death nicknames true origins?
Post by: mtnman on June 30, 2011, 06:00:56 AM
I don't doubt the aircrew believed this to be true.  At the same time it suggests the phrase was probably Allied propaganda that made it's way into the conversation in whichever theater of the war the Beau was flying.

I tend to agree.  An effective propagandist would likely coin the nickname, but give credit to the enemy. 

What better way to boost morale than to let them know that the enemy is so scared/impressed with our weapons that they give them grandiose, fearful, impressive nicknames?