Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tern on February 17, 2000, 11:57:00 PM
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To any and all of you whom I may have offended in the past, I apollogize. Whether deliberate or mistaken and escalated. I offer no excuses. We all know, each and every one of us, who has offended whom and who has not.
Good hunting
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O.E. 'Tern' Dillon
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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*bows...*
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Saw/Saintaw
BISHOP'S FINEST FLYING BRICK
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/saw.gif)
186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
http://www.wardogs.org/ (http://www.wardogs.org/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 02-18-2000).]
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Hats off Tern... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I know everybody gets pissed off sometimes (hey it happens alot to me too, but I got a bud on RW to piss to (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...hey saw)
When I saw the posting with your slur I was realy confused... I mean... I've encountered you in the arena and you've always seemed as a nice fella (checking 6, telling where cons are, whishing good luck)... so it came as a surprise to read this...
This community means alot for me... nice to see you back (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BEE
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/bee.gif)
PS: I suggest renting Hangtime's kitten... maybe he'll even lend it to ya (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) PUNT... MAAAAAUUUUW... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Apologies are nice, but let's focus on policing our actions so we don't ever have to say "sorry". This is a great game, and we should all feel like brothers of the same cloth while playing.
<S>
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banana
**MOL** (Men of Leisure)
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Originally posted by banana:
Apologies are nice, but let's focus on policing our actions so we don't ever have to say "sorry". This is a great game, and we should all feel like brothers of the same cloth while playing.
<S>
You misunderstand me. And what "slur" posting is Jengg refering to?
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O.E. 'Tern' Dillon
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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I think we need a clarification.
Are you "Terne" online? If so, there was definitely a slur. If not, then you are the victim of mistaken identity.
I have to think HTC has both your account info and BBS registration to compare, so it would be easy to double-check for verification. Either way, we should be clear who we are addressing here.
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This has been on my mind sence the posting was wandering if it was the same person or not. Most of us were taught to forgive and forget, which at times is hard to do. I believe we should let him back this time and let this be an example of what will not be tollerated by the community. The game belongs to HTC the community belongs to all of us.
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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
Cherokee Indian
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
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Originally posted by Kieren:
I think we need a clarification.
Are you "Terne" online? If so, there was definitely a slur. If not, then you are the victim of mistaken identity.
I have to think HTC has both your account info and BBS registration to compare, so it would be easy to double-check for verification. Either way, we should be clear who we are addressing here.
This both Tern and Terne. What I said was a childish "Strike back at the bully thing" in PM to a certain indivdual that had said some rather nasty things about family in general and my mother in particular. FYI - I lost my mother on December 17th last year, after a lengthy battle with cancer.
It is up to HTC to decide my fate in AH. Nothing I say here can change the fact that I tried to slap another player down verbally. As for the abuse part... Look into your own homes and ask; "Did I really have to harangue that player?" Before casting stones.
I've already told Pyro that I'm willing to make ammends and put this behind me. It appears that at least two other players are not, and that I will deal with when the time is right and in the proper format.
Now on with the game please?
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O.E. 'Tern' Dillon
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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Bygones be bygones is good enough for me. Let's get back to killing each other in an atmosphere of mutual esteem and warm fuzzy feelings all around. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Yes Kieren, Tern is Terne. Now what hblair did was totally uncalled for. What HTC did by letting it stay up was even worse.
At the time, and I'm not trying to excuse it, I was extremely upset for reasons I will not go into. I lashed back at someone that had offended me personally. It was meant to stay in a personal PM, which the recipient could either snapshot and send to HTC or forget about it. But it was between HIM and ME. If I wanted to drag everyone in the sim in on this I would have used channel 1.
It was a snipe aimed directly at one person and one person only. You want to get pissed at someone, chew hblair out for making it public.
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O.E. 'Tern' Dillon
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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more confusion:
Are you TerneToo too? Whom I met yesterday in the Training Arena? QuakeWarrior3, remember? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Kirin out
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Tern(e)-
Bear in mind, I'm not judging you at all- not my job. I simply wanted to know for sure who we're talking about.
But as far as posting the pic publicly, go back and read the thread. Who was the first person to say it should have been sent to HTC privately? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I am not angry, I am not in the position to chew you out, but will say the pic did capture a racial slur. You asked for someone to tell you what "slur posting" you made. That is mispoken. He is referring to the thread where the pic is posted with your slur in it.
I think the issue is played out, don't you? I say, if you're sorry and say so, we should just go on and try to forget about it.
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Damn Hitler's, give the 'ol boy a break. He apologized in a fair manner. Pretty standup concidering.
I agree, it was a mean verbal attack, but remember it was for one individual to see it, that being the person Tern directed it at.
Does that make it right? Nope.
It was stupid, but out of anger on the personal family attack, and at least everyone didn't have to see it. Personal things should never be posted. In fact, being the nature of the conversation, it REALLy never should have been posted. That was in my opinion the lowest blow. It was a invisible message for a brief second, now it's on the net for the world to read. If one person has to be offended, why do we all have to see it too? Send it in for proper handling, and get over it.
Peace,
Creamo
[FYI, I'm sick of people calling Niki drivers dirty "JAPS." Happens all the time, noone blinks. I can say I've dated only Asian women for years and if you called her a Jap or a Zipper Head near me, I'd be...um...slightly interested. I guess it's just racial remarks directed at a certain group that seem so alarming.(clue:They ALL are)
[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 02-18-2000).]
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Originally posted by Kirin:
more confusion:
Are you TerneToo too? Whom I met yesterday in the Training Arena? QuakeWarrior3, remember? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Kirin out
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) No kieren. TerneToo was Frosty1. He took my name as a rib at me for shooting him down or something like that. Might have been when he got a kill credit for my bailing...
So TerneToo is innocent. Still (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/confused.gif) ?
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O.E. 'Tern' Dillon
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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LOL! Now things are confusing!
I am K I E R E N.
There is a K I R I N.
We are not the same! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) It was exactly this type of question that made me ask for clarification.
I know there is 214CaveJ and CavemanJ.
There is Verm and Vermillion.
Quite confusing! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Last words I am saying on this subject:
Kieren and Creamo and the others that out there that at least tried to understand, NOT condone mind you, but understand the original intent... Thank you.
I went over the line by a far margin, that is for sure and for true. I am truly sorry you all were dragged into this at all.
Hangtime has known me for quite a while from WB, as have some others of you. (Hang is probably sending me his cat clippers at this moment.) Yes I have a tendency to curse. This issue of the slur is the first, repeat first, time ever I have done like it. I assure you it will not happen again.
However, something Creamo said bears expanding on:
Dago and I go back to WB VF-17. Our 'traditional' greeting then and now are; "Terne you lamer! (sometimes Mick)" followed by Dago ya wop 8X!" Dago I believe is actually Polish, but that is neither here nor there. The point is "we", all of us are guilty of ethnic slurs and think nothing of it until one person takes offense.
Well said Creamo, and I thank you all for putting this nasty incident behind us.
Good hunting
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O.E. 'Tern' Dillon
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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Just for clarification, and the fact that I am bored to tears (due to a labor dispute which make my department extremely slow these days..) I don't want anyone to confuse me with:
Rip s-n-o-t
Rip s-h-o-r-t
My favorite food is :
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/b-17e.jpg)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/mustang.jpg)
...the latter being something I don't get much of in my diet because they always run too fast! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/lrg0004.jpg)
"Opfer mussen gebracht werden"
— Otto Lilienthal
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-18-2000).]
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Every body take four deep breathes and relax. Maybe have a tall cool one.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Just for clarification, and the fact that I am bored to tears (due to a labor dispute which make my department extremely slow these days..) I don't want anyone to confuse me with:
Rip s-n-o-t
Rip s-h-o-r-t
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/mustang.jpg)
...the latter being something I don't get much of in my diet because they always run too fast! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hey now Rip, that is one highly modified Spitfire ya got in your signature. What model is that again? :P
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O.E. 'Tern' Dillon
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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Well, I was gonna email this reply to you personally terne, but you don't have an email addy in your profile.
Was I wrong for posting what you said on the BBS?
yes
Why was I wrong?
Because newcomers stumbling into this BBS and seeing that screenshot might have a misconception of the people that play the game. It could be detrimental to HTC's livelyhood.
As for it being 'wrong' to violate our private conversation, I'm sure you would have loved to keep it private.
"Strike back at the bully thing" in PM to a certain indivdual that had said some rather nasty things about family in general and my mother in particular
Lets be reasonable here. Do not even make like I was at all the agressor. You know better than that. It was friendly ribbing, I even put a smiley beside it to let you know it was just ribbing.
On that subject, why did you not respond a couple of minutes later when I swallowed MY pride and told you on personal channel that I was sorry about your mother and I didn't mean to disrespect her?
FYI - I lost my mother on December 17th last year
I meant it in the game when I tried to make ammends, and I will say it again, I am very sorry about your mother. I am sure that weighs heavy on you. I'm also sure it is something you don't like some stranger on the internet talking about. So I'll shut up about it.
My father has non-hodgkins lymphona, and the future consequences of it are increasingly dreadful for me. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
If you would like to discuss this further, email me at hblair@warbirds.org and lets let this thread drop off the board.
<S>
[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 02-18-2000).]
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Terne, First I must say it takes a big man to admit his mistakes and appologize in public.
A few issues thou,, You may appologized, but some digest it in their way, some will accept it right away, some maybe alittle hesitant and wait, some may not accept it at all. That is their option, just to make you aware.
Second, It is NOT the written word, but it's intent.
third , you said you have 2 more people with issues, I suggest you, if your appology is from the heart, try to solve these issues, and move on.
IF, i am one one these issues, i accept the appology, and will give you the respect and courtesy, that I expect in return.
fourth, hblair shouldn't of posted, that issue is debateable, but if you never said it ( even in the heat of battle) we would not have this very ugly, but imforative thread.
ScruU - lets move on and have what this game was originally intened for,, and HAVE FUN!!!!!
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Kieren
I go by Vermillion, but in game my callsign is just Verm. This goes back to the old days of AW (since AW4W, where there weren't enough letters to get the whole thing in.
Plus its alot easier to type in "Verm 66666" than "Vermillion 6666".
So if you see me in game its Verm, here on the BBS its Vermillion. Not unless there is someone ELSE with the callsign Vermillion, but they don't show up under the scores page.
Now there was Vermin who went by Verm back in the Warbirds beta (and the AW DOS days).
But I have been Verm in AW since early AW4W, verm-- in WB's since 2.0 and was vrm- before that in 1.11 and earlier (had one other account in WB's back right after the beta, but don't even remember my callsign from then).
But regardless Vermin is Vermin here in Aces High, at least he was during the beta.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Sorry Verm(illion)! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I seemed to remember you bringing this up before (distinguishing yourself from Vermin) when I wrote that piece. Oh, well. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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A clarification if I might;
WOP stands for Without Papers, which basically would cover 95% of the immigrants to the US...
HBLAIR is a squadmate of mine from WB, a helleva nice guy, he ribs/teases people to get them to see that certain behavior (such and using offensive language on 'general' channel is wrong.
MY understanding as to why HTC did NOT place the swastika on the german plane's tails is exactly for the same reason they can not permit racial slurs in private or general, it simply is too hot an issue to even touch.
Terne has apologized, <SALUTEs> to terne
When we forget netettique, we should at least always remember that there is a person on the otherside of the monitor.
It's a game Ladies and Gentlemen, and as a game, if we want people to play with us we need to play nice, and be good boys & girls.
I'm quite certain from my many hours of winging with HB that he harbors no resentment, so if HTC allows Terne back in, this incident would be best served as a footnote to WHAT ACTION WILL BE TAKEN for such behavior, and then moved on from.
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-CyberPilots have bigger Joysticks-
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MILENKO Homepage (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/milenko.html)
<===THE ASSASSINS===>Webpage (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/assassins.html)
milnko@warbirds.org
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Apologize? It's one thing to call someone an amazinhunk - big deal who cares?
But asking someone if he's black and calling him a cupcake is another thing. There is no apology for that. It goes to the root of his mindset that can only be changed by some serious counseling.
Commending this person, as if to say you can do anything you want as long as you apologize after is weak. He didn't insult one person by those comments, he insulted everyone - what we believe in, our dignity, and everyone who fought for truth, freedom, and decency.
Melodramatic? I don't think so, I could go on.
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I am with Kats here :
2 quotes from hblair's screen shot
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Terne : you black?
....
Terne : squelch me if you don't like it niggah
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You may hurl insults in the heat of the moment but it doesn't turn you into a racist. Frankly it's clear to me terne doesn't like black people -he is a racist. His apology doesn't change his opinions, the question is does HTC want his money, it's up to them.
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Originally posted by jmccaul:
I am with Kats here :
2 quotes from hblair's screen shot
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...Frankly it's clear to me terne doesn't like black people -he is a racist. His apology doesn't change his opinions, the question is does HTC want his money, it's up to them.
Clearly you are far more bigotted than I, sir.
Truth justice and the American way? I fought alongside some of the best Afro-Americans in the world in SE Asia, bub, and I am damned proud to have made their acquaintance! I've paid my dues to this country and it's misguided people.
Personally, I would recommend you squelch my handle when you logon.
Pyro, if you would please close this thread out, it would be deeply appreciated.
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Tern
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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Can you explain why these comments and therefore you yourself are not racist? and also how when i say you've made this racial slur and i don't think that being angry turns you into a racist it just brings it to the fore means, Iam biggoted.
I really will be astonished if you can explain away your remarks as anything other than racist slur.
[This message has been edited by jmccaul (edited 02-19-2000).]
[This message has been edited by jmccaul (edited 02-19-2000).]
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Let
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it
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DIE!!
Thank You! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I 2nd that Kieren.
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Oh no, here we go again.
I now see just how big a can of worms I opened up by posting the screenshot, rather than sending it in, and that I regret.
For the record, I am a white guy and to be honest with you all, I can't say that I have never said the 'N' word myself. I'm sure that would apply to 95 to 100% of us if we were all honest.
I deal with all kinds of people in the business I am in, and currently I have a black man and his 16 yr old daughter as a customer. These are the most polite, kind people I believe I have ever met in my life. What I am rambling on about is I think there is at least a minuscule amount of bigotry in all of us, it is our struggle to try and stay above it, and treat each man we meet as an individual, not part of a group.
Terne sent me a respectful, pretty in-depth email today, and I know this whole thing has got to be very embarassing for him.
It is possible terne just had a very bad night, and that he very rarley says something like that.
Fella's, I'm willing to put this thing behind me. How about lets give it a try?
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hblair
JG 77 (http://members.home.net/mtalbert/) WB's Historical Arena & Events
The ASSASSINS (http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/rowgue/index.html) WB's Main Arena, ACA
Luftwoobies Sturmgruppe Kommando Aces High
(http://heathblair.tripod.com/Spitflame.JPG)
[This message has been edited by hblair (edited 02-19-2000).]
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Terne..
For the most part you have been flying Bishop since beta. Ive know you to lose it but you call 6s and have been a good wingie,But... Racisim has no place in any flight sim that ive been involved with. It has no place here. Ive been with WBs since Beta & have know hblair in ACA arena for a few years.He is easymo there & has his own squad going. Ive never had a problem with him.(I fly there on Sundays With my Dad & brother) we are all 3000 miles apart.
Point is,Racism doent belong in AH or WB or any flight sim that us enthuiasts are into. Ill cover your 6 forever ,Race Creed or Color as long as you call my 6.
Ive seen you lose it in the arerna,as a matter of fact,youve lost it with me and all we did was argue the whole night,but pulling this crap on hblair was totally uncalled for. Hblair is a good pilot (Damn good competion) and someone you would want on your side. Even if he does fly with the wrong country. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
HT or Pyro,time to lock this thread!!
Please,it can easily get out of hand..
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Wardog = 357th Pony Express =
== Death From Behind ==
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I fought alongside some of the best Afro-Americans in the world in SE Asia,
bub, and I am damned proud to have made their acquaintance! I've paid my dues to this country and it's misguided
people.
For that, we are indebted.
Thing is terne, in the real world we are judged by our actions, not so much our words. On the internet, our words are our actions. We don't really know eachother outside of that. I hope you can understand why some of us would have taken it the way we did.
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I was going to avoid this one, but I got drug in. Hblair was not easymo in the aca. I was.
As to HB,s first post. I have to admit it gave me a good laff. As prop fans, most of us are aware of the record of the Tuskeegee pilots. They were the only unit in WW2 that never lost a bomber they were escorting. You have to admit that for some clown, playing at war on a computer, to try to use there race as an insult, is good for a chuckel at his expense.
[This message has been edited by TT (edited 02-20-2000).]
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Originally posted by milnko:
A clarification if I might;
WOP stands for Without Papers, which basically would cover 95% of the immigrants to the US...
To expand: Sambo originated from the Portugese word Zambo. Used against slaves that escaped to the South American indians. North Americans, being ignorant of Portugese grammar at the time, mis-spelled it, by replacing the "Z" with an "S".
Honky comes from the docks of New York, where imigrant Hungarians and ignorant Americans botched up and... "where you from?" "I from Hongry" "Oh, Hongy huh?" So it went from Hongy to Honky. also used later in reference to musicians at Honky-Tonks.
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Tern
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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This thread is still open?????
WHY????
Give it a rest and lets get on with constructive posts (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Hey Tern,
I am not Polish, nor am I italian. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I am American!
As for my ancestory, I am actually half English and half Irish. dont know why some people think otherwise. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Dago
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Guys, guys, guys. THIS is why I posted my original response to Tern. It is much smarter to never get into the situation of having to remove your foot from your mouth. Yes, it is difficult to control one's mouth and typing while online, but if you want to avoid situations like this, try my method:
HOST> Kill of banana by Dago
My reaction in my home: Dago, you dirty B#^%tard!*Bleep* you!
My reaction on the text buffer: "Good fight Dago. Nice moves. S!"
See? While it's perfectly natural to get angry when you lose a fight, try to keep the text buffer clear of the profanity.
My 2 cents worth of how to be a good sport.
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banana
**MOL** (Men of Leisure)
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Hehehehe I sure am glad I don't have any young impressionable children near me when I am flying.
They would have a vocabulary like a Sailor (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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I know what Tern said, and I must say when it comes to racism I have almost no patience at all. However, Tern has apologized for his actions and we all do get bent from time to time. Every person should be given a second chance. We aren't gods. At least not individually (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
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I am a new member to AH, but I have also been an Administrator of a Sports UBB message board for a long time.
As a new person, and long time moderator, I recommend that this thread be locked at the least. This thread has been fully discussed, and no further good is to come of it from further beatings of the dead horse. The worst part of it is that it gives the impression to newbies like myself that this type of problem exists in a large detail on AH. I have luckily been around here long enough to know that that is notthe case, but I fear others may not.
The thing about cyber relationships is that our views of others are usually colored by our own tone of voice more than the intended tone of voice....it can often create many misunderstandings....especial ly when the factual context comes so close to the line.