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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: LEADPIG on June 29, 2011, 04:12:03 AM

Title: A Korean war arena
Post by: LEADPIG on June 29, 2011, 04:12:03 AM
I'm sure it's been said before. It would be a gigantic hit. I've heard a lot of people say they want it. Keep all the current environment. And just model the F-86 Sabre and Mig-15 and have a dogfight arena. Similiar to the WWI arena, except people would be playing it. I even think Hi Tech would drag him in a few more paying customers with that one.

Respectfully
Le Pig
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: LEADPIG on June 29, 2011, 04:14:55 AM
Well, it has been asked numerous times. How do you delete a stupid post?
 :bolt:
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Slash27 on June 29, 2011, 04:43:11 AM
Not a stupid. Korea would be greatness :aok
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Eric122 on June 29, 2011, 09:14:17 AM
and you could keep the B-29 in it and make it a full war. or just kee it  dogfighting i dont care :aok
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: guncrasher on June 29, 2011, 09:23:04 AM
ww1 deja vu :noid.

semp
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: oakranger on June 29, 2011, 10:11:06 AM
Well, it has been asked numerous times. How do you delete a stupid post?
 :bolt:

It is not stupid, just need to search on the BBS to see if it was asked. Yes, a Korean War arena had been talking about. Personally, I think it will do better than WWI.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: USRanger on June 29, 2011, 10:15:46 AM
Well, we do already have Easyscor's Korea terrain.  We occasionally run a "Jet Week" in the AvA (going on now!) to simulate the Korean conflict, though we use 262s for both sides due to having nothing else.  Still, it is usually a fun week that draws players.  I could see a niche crowd for a Korea arena.  I think it would do better than the WW1 arena, but I also think WW1 arena's psuedo-failure was due to no real company attention after its initial release.  Seems like it's been left to wither on the vine ever since.  Shame.  Heck, I even sent in a new WW1 terrain something like 5 months ago to help bring life to that arena.  I think Korea would do better since it would be more fast paced for today's AH crowd.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Krusty on June 29, 2011, 10:17:20 AM
I wonder if Hitech's flight model can handle faster-than-sound speeds? Can he handle the compression, the shock waves, the stresses, etc? Or is his model mostly sub-sonic?

I ask because an issue with IL2 mods a while back. Apparently somebody was making a Vietnam mod but the game breaks if you go above certain alts or faster than the speed of sound. It doesn't model them properly.

I wonder if HTC's model takes all that into account of if he would have to redo the base system to do some of this.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 29, 2011, 10:39:43 AM
respectfully, I vote to have HTC keep their focus on WWII.  If they do anything to expand the time line, I'd like to see the PRE-EARLY war stuff make an appearance, as in circa 1936-1939.

The Soviet I-15 (bi-wing I-16), the Polish PZL P.11, the Japanese Ki-43 "Oscar", early 109's, Hurricanes, "real" Brewster Buffalos, etc.   
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: olds442 on June 29, 2011, 10:41:00 AM
I wonder if Hitech's flight model can handle faster-than-sound speeds? Can he handle the compression, the shock waves, the stresses, etc? Or is his model mostly sub-sonic?

I ask because an issue with IL2 mods a while back. Apparently somebody was making a Vietnam mod but the game breaks if you go above certain alts or faster than the speed of sound. It doesn't model them properly.

I wonder if HTC's model takes all that into account of if he would have to redo the base system to do some of this.
you can get a ME163 past 700mph IAS on the deck if you dive from like 35k
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Karnak on June 29, 2011, 01:46:42 PM
It has by no means been a unanimous opinion that a Korea setting would be good.

I, for example, think it would be complete crap and see very little use once the "Ohhhh, free jets!" syndrome had worn off.  You also have to either perk the F-86 or else have the Korea arena basically be the F-86 arena, and perking the F-86 makes it not so much a Korea setting.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: gyrene81 on June 29, 2011, 02:24:53 PM
You also have to either perk the F-86 or else have the Korea arena basically be the F-86 arena, and perking the F-86 makes it not so much a Korea setting.
ok karnak, now you have my curiosity up...why would the f-86 need to be perked?
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: waystin2 on June 29, 2011, 02:41:21 PM
As a customer that came here because of the old prop planes, I am not a big fan of jets.  Sorry -1
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: HighTone on June 29, 2011, 02:50:08 PM
As a customer that came here because of the old prop planes, I am not a big fan of jets.  Sorry -1


Same here.....real planes have props.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Arlo on June 29, 2011, 03:38:58 PM
Ah. Memories.  :D

I like jets as long as dogfighting guns-on is still the object. I think Korea qualifies. But I think the minimum aircraft to be modeled would be (starting in order of importance):

- Mig-15

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=124

- F-86 Sabre

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=120

- Grumman F9F Panther (and a carrier that can launch it - flying the distance battles)

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=368

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bomber-wise, however, it's been noted before how much of a disadvantage
may be represented in a standard UN vs. Communist forces map. A Korean
War map and plane set would probably be best as a non-bomber non-landgrab
environment. Though I suppose ground attack and vehicles suffice for that aspect.

Lots of already modeled aircraft merely require era-skinning:

P-51-Ds
F4U-4s
LA-9s
Yak-9s
IL-2s

Meh. I need to become a paying customer again to lend weight to this discussion.

Sides, the economy hit us all and modeling all this new in hopes of attraction when those
still playing seem plenty attracted to what's here may be a losing proposition, in spite of
the fancy factor.


Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: LEADPIG on June 29, 2011, 04:10:57 PM
I wonder if Hitech's flight model can handle faster-than-sound speeds? Can he handle the compression, the shock waves, the stresses, etc? Or is his model mostly sub-sonic?

The F-86 and mig-15 mostly operated in the subsonic flight regime they rarely went supersonic. Mostly in dives
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: LEADPIG on June 29, 2011, 04:13:45 PM
It has by no means been a unanimous opinion that a Korea setting would be good.

I, for example, think it would be complete crap and see very little use once the "Ohhhh, free jets!" syndrome had worn off.  You also have to either perk the F-86 or else have the Korea arena basically be the F-86 arena, and perking the F-86 makes it not so much a Korea setting.

I don't think so. Why would the F-86 need to be perked going against the Mig-15? I'm basically talking about a Korean type dogfight arena. But even still the F-86 would not need to be perked.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: STEELE on June 29, 2011, 05:14:00 PM
I wonder if Hitech's flight model can handle faster-than-sound speeds? Can he handle the compression, the shock waves, the stresses, etc? Or is his model mostly sub-sonic?

The F-86 and mig-15 mostly operated in the subsonic flight regime they rarely went supersonic. Mostly in dives
when that defector brought a Mig-15 to the US base, they brought it home to the states, dived it from 55k, almost died-couldnt pull out till around 2000ft, and still didnt break the sound barrier. (according to the reports)
I don't think so. Why would the F-86 need to be perked going against the Mig-15? I'm basically talking about a Korean type dogfight arena. But even still the F-86 would not need to be perked.

Mig-15 has a higher ceiling and turns better at high alts, also I would rather have the cannon/tater package
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Karnak on June 29, 2011, 07:18:34 PM
I don't think so. Why would the F-86 need to be perked going against the Mig-15? I'm basically talking about a Korean type dogfight arena. But even still the F-86 would not need to be perked.

If the F-86 were not perked, the arena would basically be an F-86 fratricide arena as many, many more people will fly the F-86 than will fly the MiG-15.

If the F-86 is perked it won't be a very good Korean arena.

It is a problem.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Volron on June 29, 2011, 07:53:35 PM
I may have come here for WW2 Era Birds, but I would not at all be against Korean Era Birds.  The one thing I want to see though, is the WW2 line up to be filled out BEFORE we venture into the Korean Era, which includes the Spanish Civil War and the Invasion of China.  Not trying to pick a fight here but, I honestly do not know why some folks are against a Korean Era Arena, especially if they filled out the WW2 line first.  If you don't want jets, then simply don't go there.

Karnak
I don't want to put you "on the spot" as well, but you have me curious.  Why do you believe that a Korean Arena would be an F-86 only Arena?  I'm not attacking you or anything, I'm just curious to your reason for saying this.

+1 on this idea, but farther down the line. :aok
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: MaSonZ on June 29, 2011, 08:06:48 PM
I wonder if Hitech's flight model can handle faster-than-sound speeds? Can he handle the compression, the shock waves, the stresses, etc? Or is his model mostly sub-sonic?

I ask because an issue with IL2 mods a while back. Apparently somebody was making a Vietnam mod but the game breaks if you go above certain alts or faster than the speed of sound. It doesn't model them properly.

I wonder if HTC's model takes all that into account of if he would have to redo the base system to do some of this.
this, and also... if it can handle it, how many machines would be able to handle it fresh off the shelf? A good many of us have machines built for better performance, but there are still some who run an off the shelf Dell or HP...
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Karnak on June 29, 2011, 08:14:00 PM
Volron,

Imagine an arena in which you have the P-51D (F-86), Yak-9U (MiG-15), Hurricane Mk I (Sea Fury), F4F-4 (F4U) and Ju88A-4 (B-29).  What percentage of the aircraft in that arena do you imagine will be the very popular American fighter as opposed to the potent, but not popular "Commie" fighter, and some old prop jobs?
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: MK-84 on June 29, 2011, 10:46:01 PM
I wonder if Hitech's flight model can handle faster-than-sound speeds? Can he handle the compression, the shock waves, the stresses, etc? Or is his model mostly sub-sonic?

The F-86 and mig-15 mostly operated in the subsonic flight regime they rarely went supersonic. Mostly in dives

I was not aware that the F86 or Mig-15 could break the sound barrier.   Can someone verify this?
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Slash27 on June 29, 2011, 11:35:38 PM
If the F-86 were not perked, the arena would basically be an F-86 fratricide arena as many, many more people will fly the F-86 than will fly the MiG-15.

If the F-86 is perked it won't be a very good Korean arena.

It is a problem.
Why would it have to be a 3 CHess piece arena?  Two countries = Sabre vs F@got= no need for perks.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Guppy35 on June 30, 2011, 01:24:57 AM
If the F-86 were not perked, the arena would basically be an F-86 fratricide arena as many, many more people will fly the F-86 than will fly the MiG-15.

If the F-86 is perked it won't be a very good Korean arena.

It is a problem.

Back in the old AW Korea arena the 86s and Migs seemed to be about even.  We had a good Korea Scenario at one point too.  Was great fun leading the 18th FBW F51Ds.  Even more fun watching the Migs auger trying to dive and turn with us on the deck :)

Ahh those shark mouthed F51Ds...... :aok
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Karnak on June 30, 2011, 03:11:45 AM
Why would it have to be a 3 CHess piece arena?  Two countries = Sabre vs F@got= no need for perks.
Then you have the vast majority of the players on the side with the F-86 hoping to see a player take up a MiG-15 so they can gang him.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: iron650 on June 30, 2011, 06:39:09 AM
If the F-86 were not perked, the arena would basically be an F-86 fratricide arena as many, many more people will fly the F-86 than will fly the MiG-15.

If the F-86 is perked it won't be a very good Korean arena.

It is a problem.

So you're saying that would be a problem. Fly in the WWI arena and most of the planes you see will be the Fokker Dr.1 and Dr.7. We still play on there so what you are saying is that the F-86 would fill an arena and that practically happened in the WWI arena. Yet, we don't perk either the Dr.1 or the Dr.7.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: USAFPilot on June 30, 2011, 06:46:04 AM
THIS IS WORLD WAR II!!! NOT KOREA!!! :bhead
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Volron on June 30, 2011, 07:57:34 AM
Why would it have to be a 3 CHess piece arena?  Two countries = Sabre vs F@got= no need for perks.

I have to side with Karnak on his response.  If it was a 2 country system, I get the feeling most WOULD be flying Allied for the F-86.

THIS IS WORLD WAR II!!! NOT KOREA!!! :bhead

Oh?  We have a WW1 arena...  Still not seeing why we shouldn't venture into the Korean Era, AFTER the WW2 line is filled.

Karnak
I don't think the F-86 would lord over the MiG-15 as much as you think.  US pilots were better trained than their Korean counterparts, most of which were Chinese/Korean.  Soviets were better trained than they were and probably on par with US pilots.  Now it being chosen because it's American, you won't get an argument from me.  We all know that alone is the reason a lot will choose it.  But I am more than certain that you will have dedicated MiG-15 pilots.  On a side note, I didn't know the Yak-9U was that much better at high alt than the 51... :headscratch:  I'm a bit serious.  I've only flown the Yak-9U 3+ times since I started AH in Sept-Aug of 09.  And I've only flown the 51 as Jabo, so my experience with these planes are rather limited.

Hopefully someone with books on these 2 planes will come in here and post detailed info about them.  Regardless, I'm still +1 on a Korean Era Arena down the line.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: iron650 on June 30, 2011, 08:34:16 AM
+1

After WWII line is filled.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: matt on June 30, 2011, 08:35:54 AM
BEARCATand P86 for the Korean base capturing arena..  

                  flak :bolt:
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Slash27 on June 30, 2011, 10:30:18 AM
Then you have the vast majority of the players on the side with the F-86 hoping to see a player take up a MiG-15 so they can gang him.
Why are we assuming that's the case?
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: ariansworld on June 30, 2011, 12:24:48 PM
Isn't the F86 and Mig16 already modeled???? I remember a while back HTC posted a picture of the HTC garage........ and they F86 and the Mig15 were in there.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Karnak on June 30, 2011, 01:22:19 PM
Why are we assuming that's the case?
Evidence supporting it is the plane choices already in AH.  The P-51D is by no means the best fighter in the game, good yes, but for air-to-air there are multiple superior choices.  Despite that, the P-51D is, by far, the single most common airplane in the game.

In addition, for most Americans, the majority of the player base, there is no "cool" factor for North Korea or Soviet equipment like there is for WWII Germany and German equipment.

Look at how hard it is for events to get enough players to show up for the Japanese side when it is US vs Japan.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: ink on June 30, 2011, 01:57:33 PM
in FA, I tried the jets, ehhh

  couldn't they add the prop planes that also fought in Korea? I am not sure off hand what they were?  which were they ?   This place in like a living breathing encyclopedia.....
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Vudak on June 30, 2011, 02:08:33 PM
I would very much welcome a Korean War arena and would frequent it much more often than the WW1 arena.  I'd say you'd need the F-86 and MiG-15 to start off free, but eventually, as the plane set is filled out, it could become the "super-prop" arena with the jets featuring a light (5-10) perk.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: ink on June 30, 2011, 02:14:22 PM
I would very much welcome a Korean War arena and would frequent it much more often than the WW1 arena.  I'd say you'd need the F-86 and MiG-15 to start off free, but eventually, as the plane set is filled out, it could become the "super-prop" arena with the jets featuring a light (5-10) perk.

I agree that would be the best bet.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Guppy35 on June 30, 2011, 02:35:07 PM
If you are doing Korea right, it's not going to be just 86s and Mig 15s.   Think Sea Fury, Banshee, F9F Panther, F80, F84, F4U-4, F51D, Skyraiders, Seafire 47, A26s, La9, IL10, Yak 9 etc.  With a proper tactical element to it, the airwar would be both up high with the Jets and down low with the ground attack birds.  Already have a T34/85.  Update the Sherman to an M4A3E8, throw in the Pershing and the tankers could be busy

It would be interesting to try and survive in an F84E or Panther.  Kinda makes me want to watch "The Bridges at Toki Ri" again :)
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Slash27 on June 30, 2011, 03:18:00 PM
Evidence supporting it is the plane choices already in AH.  The P-51D is by no means the best fighter in the game, good yes, but for air-to-air there are multiple superior choices.  Despite that, the P-51D is, by far, the single most common airplane in the game.

In addition, for most Americans, the majority of the player base, there is no "cool" factor for North Korea or Soviet equipment like there is for WWII Germany and German equipment.

Look at how hard it is for events to get enough players to show up for the Japanese side when it is US vs Japan.
Ok, but don't you think in  gaming environment they are going to gravitate to the more nimble Mig-15 with the big nasty cannons at some point? And as Dan pointed out there are a lot of opitions on the table besides the Mig vs Sabre.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: guncrasher on June 30, 2011, 03:21:57 PM
Then you have the vast majority of the players on the side with the F-86 hoping to see a player take up a MiG-15 so they can gang him.

I will have a standing 100 dollar bet against any of you that if there is ever a korea arena, this majority you are talking about will be 2 or 3 players against 1,  if that many.

semp
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: ink on June 30, 2011, 03:26:37 PM
I will have a standing 100 dollar bet against any of you that if there is ever a korea arena, this majority you are talking about will be 2 or 3 players against 1,  if that many.

semp

I not take that bet :cry
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Delirium on June 30, 2011, 03:29:17 PM
I remember the Korean arena we had in Airwarrior, it was just as dead as the WWI arena. We did have one noteworthy scenario based on Korea but otherwise the entire arena was a waste of space. I'm not in charge, but if I was I wouldn't even bother creating a Korean based arena looking at the numbers we have in the WWI arena daily on Aces High.

Instead, I'd rather see HTC devote their time to things we need; like a strategic system the war winnners and buff pilots could enjoy, filling out the plane set (in particular the Japanese), continuing to improve the damage modeling (including hit sprites), etc etc.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Slash27 on June 30, 2011, 03:38:42 PM
Party pooper :(
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Shifty on June 30, 2011, 03:46:38 PM
If you are doing Korea right, it's not going to be just 86s and Mig 15s.   Think Sea Fury, Banshee, F9F Panther, F80, F84, F4U-4, F51D, Skyraiders, Seafire 47, A26s, La9, IL10, Yak 9 etc.  With a proper tactical element to it, the airwar would be both up high with the Jets and down low with the ground attack birds.  Already have a T34/85.  Update the Sherman to an M4A3E8, throw in the Pershing and the tankers could be busy

It would be interesting to try and survive in an F84E or Panther.  Kinda makes me want to watch "The Bridges at Toki Ri" again :)

Oh yeah!  :aok
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: ariansworld on June 30, 2011, 05:22:56 PM
Isn't the F86 and Mig16 already modeled???? I remember a while back HTC posted a picture of the HTC garage........ and they F86 and the Mig15 were in there.

Here is a link........  http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,304134.30.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,304134.30.html)
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: matt on July 01, 2011, 08:31:33 AM
 :aok
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: AWwrgwy on July 01, 2011, 12:50:16 PM
Back in the old AW Korea arena the 86s and Migs seemed to be about even.  We had a good Korea Scenario at one point too.  Was great fun leading the 18th FBW F51Ds.  Even more fun watching the Migs auger trying to dive and turn with us on the deck :)

Ahh those shark mouthed F51Ds...... :aok

I seem to remember a majority of MiGs because the climbed and turned better.


If you are doing Korea right, it's not going to be just 86s and Mig 15s.   Think Sea Fury, Banshee, F9F Panther, F80, F84, F4U-4, F51D, Skyraiders, Seafire 47, A26s, La9, IL10, Yak 9 etc. 


...B-29, Tu-2, F-82, PO-2, F7F, Meteor.


The biggest problem I can see is the disparity in numbers of types of planes vis a vis Allied versus Communist.



wrongway
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Skyguns MKII on July 01, 2011, 06:29:58 PM
NO, just, Nooo...... I love aces high as it is, a WWII combat sim. I don't want them losing there roots. If you want a Korean war go play a different game.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: BaldEagl on July 01, 2011, 06:42:28 PM
Back in AW when I did venture into the Korean arena I always upped a Mig.  I think they are one of the coolest looking fighter planes ever built.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Slash27 on July 02, 2011, 04:45:24 AM
NO, just, Nooo...... I love aces high as it is, a WWII combat sim. I don't want them losing there roots. If you want a Korean war go play a different game.
What game?
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: CAP1 on July 02, 2011, 10:24:16 AM
I'm sure it's been said before. It would be a gigantic hit. I've heard a lot of people say they want it. Keep all the current environment. And just model the F-86 Sabre and Mig-15 and have a dogfight arena. Similiar to the WWI arena, except people would be playing it. I even think Hi Tech would drag him in a few more paying customers with that one.

Respectfully
Le Pig

 i don't seem to recall the korean war arenas in air warrior being too popular.......
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: BaldEagl on July 02, 2011, 10:55:41 AM
i don't seem to recall the korean war arenas in air warrior being too popular.......

They weren't but there were usually 5-10 people in there.  But in AW there were usually 20 or so in the WWI arena all the time too.
Title: Re: A Korean war arena
Post by: Arlo on July 02, 2011, 07:15:59 PM
I remember trying to promote the KA in AW after I got some flak for supporting a pac arena (hoping cross support for both would help). It was a fun place, I thought. But I gotta say that I'm looking forward to coming back to play some of the additions HT and co have added in my absence from the game (F4UA1, I-15s, etc). And, of course, more players tends to pay for more toys. So I may tack on a couple of more accounts for the step-sons (or their friends - if they can behave like decent folk), whether I can pry them from COD:Black Ops to play AH or not.