Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Butcher on July 04, 2011, 12:43:47 AM
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After Germany was forbidden usign any kind of tactical vehicles by the Versalles Treaty, the German government reached an agreement with the USSR at the end of the 20s (Rapallo Treaty) for settling a common plant of development and experiment of armored vehicles.
Under top secret and with the name of "Gepanzerte Mannschafft Transporwagen", the predeccesors of the 234 series were born. During 1926-1927, Daimler Benz and Magirus developed a vehicle of 8 wheels, while Büssing Nag did the same with an amphibiuos 10 wheels vehicle, fitting the requirements of the government.
The German Army only gained experience from these designs, as they still had to train with fake vehicles, commercial chassis with wooden or fabric superstructure. Anyway they were able to set up and improve the units and tactics that were to be succesfully employed later, in the Second World War
The first reconnoissance vehicle was the Kfz 13, in 1934. It had four wheels and was hardly used in combat, but it served as a base for a long series of 4, 6 and 8 wheels vehicles.
The most direct ancestor of the 234 were the 8 wheels GS chassis, namely SdKfz 231, 232, 233 y 263, from which it got part of its mechanichal components and general guidelines of design.
234/1 Mounting a "Hängelafette 38" (swinging mount) with a 2cm Kw.K.38 and one MG 42
234/2 Mounting a narrow profile turret with a 5cm Kw.K.39/1 and one MG 42
234/3 With a 7,5 cm Kw.K.51 L/24 in a K51 (Sf)mount, coaxial MG 42 and AA mounted MG
234/4 With a PaK 40 L/46 and one MG 42 in AA mount
According to Jentz, the 101 units of the 234/2 produced were distributed as follows:
-Panzer Lehr Div. (1 Kompanie/PzAufkAbt 130): 25 units. Painted in dark yellow and without numerals or crosses.
- 2 PzDiv (1.Kompanie/PzAufkAbt 2): 25 units. Some of its vehicles seem painted dark yellow without any marking (not even license plates) but a small trident and the Aufklärungs insignia, both on the front of the hull, at the left. Others, like the well knwon 111 carried 3 tone camo, crosses and numerals.
- 1 SSPzDiv (SSPzAufkAbt 1): 16 units. painted in dark yellow with camo, probably 3 tone. They also carried crosses and numerals (3 digits)
- 20 PzDiv ( PzAufkAbt 20): 16 units. There is a photo of a Puma white washed, in Silesia.
- 7 PzDiv (1Kompanie/ PzAufkAbt 7): 6 units
- 13 PzDiv: not known.
(http://www.warwheels.net/images/sdkfz234_2pumaDrawingCROSBY1.jpg)
(http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/armored-cars/sdkfz-234-armored-car/sdkfz-234-2-armored-car-05.png)
Here is a SdKfz 234/4 with 75mm ->
(http://www.achtungpanzer.com/images/sdkfz234_4_2.jpg)
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+1
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like a German M8...interesting, although im not sure how it would be used. +1
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+1 to new toys!!!!
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:aok
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interesting, although im not sure how it would be used. +1
Like a German M-8?
wrongway
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+1 75mm gun like panzer 4 what a tank destrioyer
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Slower than the M8. Same armor class as the M8 Greyhound (thin). Slightly more powerful gun than the M8 (Puma typically had the 5cm). IIRC, the 234/2 with the 5cm was the most common.
It'd be good to have, but I think there are many more gv's above it on the totem pole. My opinion, of course. :)
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+1 x 100 :aok
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I'm all for the Puma; it'd be a great matchup for the M8 Greyhound currently in use.
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I'm all for the Puma; it'd be a great matchup for the M8 Greyhound currently in use.
This is what I am thinking, although M8 would be higher Eny, I believe the Puma would be more useful since its 50mm can actually take out quite a few tanks since its gun is an L/60 which can penetrate most tanks from the side, rear without a problem. Although its nothing fancy, I think its a pretty nice match up with the M8 we have.
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The 231 or 232 would be fine too.
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+1 to the 5 Cm or 75mm variants.
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+1 for this thread.
+2 if we get the M-18 first
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Hello Puma, you are looking sweet today.
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+1 this would be fun
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Like a German M8?
Yup. A bit slower, but heavier armor.\
And +1. Would love the 234/2 and the 234/4. Would put hell on wheels.
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very nice!
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Yup. A bit slower, but heavier armor.\
And +1. Would love the 234/2 and the 234/4. Would put hell on wheels.
at 50mph's on the road, it would easily be a match for most tanks in the game, and more then a match for the M-18 if ever added, although the 50mm wouldn't dent most tanks in the front, its more then easily a match for tanks in the side.
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M8 vs Puma would be an interesting fight. Puma has armor on its side, but both are still easily capable of tearing through eachother. IMO, it would come down to manuver (M8 has the edge there) and gunnery (puma takes the lead in this one).
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M8 vs Puma would be an interesting fight. Puma has armor on its side, but both are still easily capable of tearing through eachother. IMO, it would come down to manuver (M8 has the edge there) and gunnery (puma takes the lead in this one).
I would think that the Puma would outmaneuver the M8 since all eight of the Puma's wheels can turn IIRC. The front 4 wheels turn in the direction you want to go while the rear 4 wheels turn the other way and thus spin the back around faster.
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I would think that the Puma would outmaneuver the M8 since all eight of the Puma's wheels can turn IIRC. The front 4 wheels turn in the direction you want to go while the rear 4 wheels turn the other way and thus spin the back around faster.
Another thing is the Puma has a 50mm L/60, however I am not sure of the Optics, but I would believe its the same as the Panzer 4 (dont quote me because i haven't checked)
I am just curious as well how the Wheels would turn and handling qualities, otherwise I think if it ever gets added I would never get my Squadie Tull out of this thing.
Don't blame him either, I think its a great looking scout car :)
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Gents,
I want to dredge up an old request. All these years I have bee asking to bring the Puma into the mix. The 50mm Gun is in play with the Hetzer. Lets take the small step and bring in a German counter to the M18 Hellcat. Butcher is right if this ride is on the field I will be driving it!
v/r
Jamie
Tull :joystick:
JAMES W GENTRY III
Contractor, Northrop Grumman
Mission Command Training Support Program (MCTSP)
Senior Training Advisor (STA)
278th Armored Cavalry Regiment, TN ARNG
Kelly: Well Oddball, what do you think?
Oddball: It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.
Big Joe: Hey look, you just keep them Tigers busy and we'll take care of the rest.
Oddball: The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to LET THEM SHOOT HOLES IN ME!
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Gents,
I want to dredge up an old request. All these years I have bee asking to bring the Puma into the mix. The 50mm Gun is in play with the Hetzer. Lets take the small step and bring in a German counter to the M18 Hellcat. Butcher is right if this ride is on the field I will be driving it!
v/r
Jamie
Tull :joystick:
JAMES W GENTRY III
Contractor, Northrop Grumman
Mission Command Training Support Program (MCTSP)
Senior Training Advisor (STA)
278th Armored Cavalry Regiment, TN ARNG
Kelly: Well Oddball, what do you think?
Oddball: It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.
Big Joe: Hey look, you just keep them Tigers busy and we'll take care of the rest.
Oddball: The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to LET THEM SHOOT HOLES IN ME!
Um.... the Hetzer has the same 7.5cm as on the Panzer IV H, not the 5cm. The German 5cm gun will need to be modeled if HTC adds it to the game.
The Puma was not a tank destroyer, it was more of a scout vessel. The best counter to use against the M18 is HE. ;) Even if you miss the odds of tracking it, disabling the turret, or damaging the engine are high. If you hit then it goes "puuf". And yes, to verify I mean HE rounds, I cant remember the last time I fired AP rounds at a M18, moving or still.
It would be fun to have, but me thinks we'll see the Panzer III or StuG III prior, and the Su-100 as well. :aok
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:noid
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:aok I would like to see the sdkfz.234/2 as well as the sdkzf.222 armored car. It is like a jeep with armor and a 20mm gun along with an MG 34/42.
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What's a Puma or Hetzer?
Please use the correct names Sd. Kfz. 234/2 and Jagdpanzer 38, not those names invented by fancy book authors.
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+1 I posted this in another thread, I'm glad other people want to see some more GV's.
:salute
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What's a Puma or Hetzer?
Please use the correct names Sd. Kfz. 234/2 and Jagdpanzer 38, not those names invented by fancy book authors.
(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg269/Alitoni/LightenUpFrancis_zpsaad5b913.jpg)
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(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg269/Alitoni/LightenUpFrancis_zpsaad5b913.jpg)
:lol
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(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg269/Alitoni/LightenUpFrancis_zpsaad5b913.jpg)
No kiddin'! I'm glad someone said it. :aok
HETZER HETZER HETZER!!! PUMA PUMA PUMA!!!! :lol
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No kiddin'! I'm glad someone said it. :aok
HETZER HETZER HETZER!!! PUMA PUMA PUMA!!!! :lol
You know, I was honestly going to post with that, then I saw Butcher's picture. :lol
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Gents,
My apologies for the reference to the gun on the Hetzer when I was making my case for brining the Puma into the GV mix. My reference should have been to the Me 410 and its 50mm Gun. Again the leap to bring the Puma onto the arena should be a small one in that the weapon for the Puma is in the mix already.
"Speed is life Peaches"
v/r
Jamie
Tull :bolt:
JAMES W GENTRY III
Contractor, Northrop Grumman
Mission Command Training Support Program (MCTSP)
Senior Training Advisor (STA)
278th Armored Cavalry Regiment, TN ARNG
Oddball: This engine's been modified by our mechanical genius here, Moriarty. Right?
Moriarty: Whatever you say, babe.
[giggles]
Oddball: These engines are the fastest in any tanks in the European Theater of Operations, forwards or backwards. You see, man, we like to feel we can get out of trouble, quicker than we got into it.
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Gents,
I call for bringing the Puma German AC into the ground war. I wish to beat the drum (or dead horse) again for the next addition to the fleet of ground vehicles in the game. It is a good counter to the Hellcat and the 50mm gun is already modeled in game with the Me 410.
v/r
Jamie :joystick:
Tull, 367th Dynamite Gang
JAMES W GENTRY III
Contractor, Northrop Grumman
Mission Command Training Support Program (MCTSP)
Senior Training Advisor (STA)
278th Armored Cavalry Regiment, TN ARNG
Kelly: Well Oddball, what do you think?
Oddball: It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.
Big Joe: Hey look, you just keep them Tigers busy and we'll take care of the rest.
Oddball: The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to LET THEM SHOOT HOLES IN ME!
Crapgame: Hey, Oddball, this is your hour of glory. And you're chickening out!
Oddball: To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers.
Kelly: Nobody's asking you to be a hero.
Oddball: No? Then YOU sit up in that turret baby.
Kelly: No, because you're gonna be up there, baby, and I'll be right outside showing you which way to go.
Oddball: Yeah?
Kelly: Yeah.
Oddball: Crazy... I mean like, so many positive waves... maybe we can't lose, you're on!