Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: cut67 on July 06, 2011, 11:53:59 AM
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How do you guys fly it? I realize its my favorite plane and It flies very well when im in it!
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The P-39D/P-400 is pretty much out classed by most mid or late war rides (and I say this as a P-39/P-400 fan) she hates to climb, accelerate (unless the nose is pointed straight down) and bleeds E like a sieve in almost any form of maneuver. What this means realistically is you need to keep some altitude under your wings because the only way you can recover airspeed quickly after a couple maneuvers is to trade it for altitude. Work a furball top down and when you get to the bottom trade the last few thousand feet for speed and egress and reset. A P-39D w/out some air under the wings will quickly run out of options because it builds E so slowly.
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I'd suggest working the P-39Q if you are just starting out. It's got a lot more horsepower, better guns, and you can even lose the wing guns to make her even more responsive.
If the P-39D were a 109E, then the P-39Q is like a 109G6. It's easier to survive with because it is more capable.
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I stay fairly low in it because I'm probably gonna get dogpiled anyway and climbing takes forever. If you're interested in survival, this isn't the plane for you. Try to sucker BnZ planes to get slow enough to try and turn with you. They can't and will eat 37mm shells if your aim is good.
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Soulyss and cactus are the 39D guys. FlyinFin is in it a fair amount too. I think Soulyss said it best. Work downhill as you sure aren't going up :)
Fun bird. I more often take a Q but the D with a wingman or 2 can be good fun too
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Edwards Park, who flew P-39's with the 41st FS/35th FG and author of what may be the greatest pilot memoir ever "Nanette" (nearly required reading in the 80th at this point) had the following to say about the 39 (from Fire In The Sky by Eric Bergerud).
Pilots had a love-hate relationship with the P-39. It depended upon what you going to try to do with it. Aside from being used wrongs as an interceptor it wasn't very fast unless yo put the nose straight down and then it could go like hell. It didn't have altitude. It also had poor range. Without a belly tank it couldn't make a mission over two house and that was pushing things. We got an extra hour with a belly tank. When we were up high on scrambles as soon as the nose went down the plane really dropped. B it was a wonderful plane to learn to fly and to learn to turn with. You didn't ever move the controls much through your turns, so you thought about your acrobatics. But it could do some very weird things. If you actually moved the controls you had a very good chance of doing a high speed stall and snap roll. It was very delicate. Poorly trained pilots could in trouble with a P-39...
The AH P-39 seems a little more forgiving than what Park describes but you do have to be somewhat careful and deliberate on the controls, abrupt control inputs are likely to cause a stall and drop a wing.
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Flying wing tactics in a mediocre plane could be quite rewarding. Between two great BnZ planes versus 2 Cobras flying tight tactics, its on the tactics every time. I might have to give this albatross a ride.
Boo
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I'd suggest working the P-39Q if you are just starting out. It's got a lot more horsepower, better guns, and you can even lose the wing guns to make her even more responsive.
If the P-39D were a 109E, then the P-39Q is like a 109G6. It's easier to survive with because it is more capable.
The P-39Q has better guns, IF you take the external pods. I recommend not taking them. If you can't kill with the twin fifties/37mm, the extra pair of fifties if not likely to make much difference. Besides, the hit to basic performance is very much like that of the 109s and their optional gondolas. The better sticks don't want or need them. The P-39D has two different gun packages, each with three different guns and ballistics. The four .30 caliber guns can kill, but it takes a while. Ignore those, and concentrate on the twin fifties/20mm or twin fifties/37mm.
Consider that the P-39Q, sans the underwing guns, performs very much the same as the P-38J/L below 15k. At 10k, it's actually faster than the '38s.
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I'd suggest working the P-39Q if you are just starting out. It's got a lot more horsepower, better guns, and you can even lose the wing guns to make her even more responsive.
If the P-39D were a 109E, then the P-39Q is like a 109G6. It's easier to survive with because it is more capable.
It's even more of a disparity than that. The Q is a pretty capable plane, the D, not so much. It likes turns to the left, really hates turns to the right.
- oldman
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Like Soulyss mentioned the P-39 we have seems almost without sin... It mushes through a turn like a P-38. Don't get me wrong it wallows badly but it doesn't want to depart as much as it should and it will just kind of hang there not getting anywhere fast but not falling out of the sky either.
I agree with "don't take the gondolas" for the most part. Sometimes if you know what you're doing they can be fun, as 4x 50cal are a solid punch as seen in the wildcats and P-51B. Probably 75% of my 39Q sorties are without them, the rest with.
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Like Soulyss mentioned the P-39 we have seems almost without sin... It mushes through a turn like a P-38. Don't get me wrong it wallows badly but it doesn't want to depart as much as it should and it will just kind of hang there not getting anywhere fast but not falling out of the sky either.
The thing is Krusty, that when you tend to live on the limits of controlled flight, as some of us do too often, the P-39 can be diabolical. Perhaps worse than the P-40s, the P-39s have extremely abrupt departures. When down in the weeds, flaps out... Stability and predictability breeds confidence. It will take a fair amount of the P-39 flying to build confidence and develop the skill (really, more like "feel") needed to fly the edge without unwanted drama. Like the Ki-61 and P-40s, the use of flaps in a low speed scrum is probably not where you want to find yourself.
So, my advice to someone new to the P-39D is to fly it as previously described by others. Climb out to 10k or so, and fight down hill wherever feasible. Whenever possible fly as part of a pair or more of fighters. Why? Because, once you've burned through any altitude you had, you will be more defensive than offensive. You'll likely need someone to keep your six clear as you wobble off to regain some height.
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The thing is Krusty, that when you tend to live on the limits of controlled flight, as some of us do too often, the P-39 can be diabolical. Perhaps worse than the P-40s, the P-39s have extremely abrupt departures. When down in the weeds, flaps out... Stability and predictability breeds confidence. It will take a fair amount of the P-39 flying to build confidence and develop the skill (really, more like "feel") needed to fly the edge without unwanted drama. Like the Ki-61 and P-40s, the use of flaps in a low speed scrum is probably not where you want to find yourself.
So, my advice to someone new to the P-39D is to fly it as previously described by others. Climb out to 10k or so, and fight down hill wherever feasible. Whenever possible fly as part of a pair or more of fighters. Why? Because, once you've burned through any altitude you had, you will be more defensive than offensive. You'll likely need someone to keep your six clear as you wobble off to regain some height.
Agree completely, the P-39 can be a handful when you hit the edge, while I'm not spending a lot of time in it lately (flying time in general is down) I was very aware when I thought I might be getting near the edge, there were plenty of times in the fight when I wasn't paying that much attention and the 39 bit me every time. When you hit the edge you go over it really suddenly and with little warning. While the controls aren't as twitchy as some pilot anecdotes I think HTC did a fine job capturing the modelling of this little plane given the controls available to us cartoon fighter pilots.
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The only thing I prefer in the D over the Q is the 20mm - I find it much easier to hit with.
Agree completely about the gun pods on the Q - leave 'em home, unless you're out to do air-to-ground work.
You can survive by working the edges of the furball - always know which way is out.
It's funny, the '39 is the plane that gives me the most confidence of any a/c when down low fighting in the weeds. I think because it's small and has a good rollrate, and you sit up high in the fighter - with a decent view outside.
Also I think the '39 has a well-laid out instrument panel, and one of the best forward/up views in the game. I don't seem to lose view of fighters due to the canopy frame as much as I do in other fighters.
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WW: Good point about the flaps. However I don't use them much, even when nearing stall speeds. Most pilots in WW2 didn't use them much either, and so from a flaps-up perspective it is very very docile compared to historic accounts, even if the "ball" slips from side to side sometimes in-game.
I think it's a problem common with many planes in the game since 2.0 (or since 2.5 or whenever that airflow recode was done) where a number don't spin out like they should or like they used to in AH1.
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WW: Good point about the flaps. However I don't use them much, even when nearing stall speeds. Most pilots in WW2 didn't use them much either, and so from a flaps-up perspective it is very very docile compared to historic accounts, even if the "ball" slips from side to side sometimes in-game.
I think it's a problem common with many planes in the game since 2.0 (or since 2.5 or whenever that airflow recode was done) where a number don't spin out like they should or like they used to in AH1.
Having talked to 39 drivers, as well as read most everything I can find, I think what gets missed is that the folks in AH flying the 39 are generally guys who've got a fair amount of 'flying time'. The 39 drivers for real who had the experience handled the real deal much the same.
Take some newbie to the game up in a 39 and fly against him in a Zeke. My guess is the newbie will stall, spin, get it to do bad things, just like the real deal.
As Soulyss mentioned, we're all "Nanette" fans in the 80th. Edwards Park speaks to that in the 39. 'Think' about turning and it could make your cheeks sag. Be rough on it and it would snap roll, depart very fast. The AH 39 does the same thing.
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I don't see it that way with our in-game model Guppy. The only time I've ever really departed was when at the top of a stalled out zoom/loop or at stall speed inverted in a barrel roll with flaps out, and those are recoverable even at relatively low alts.
To me what gets you dead in this plane is the performance specs. Other planes just outfly you and shoot you down. The handling itself is rather normal in my opinion (as-modeled, that is)
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P39-D is the better of the P39 line. With the 20mm you can hit easier and it does not take much to score a kill. It is really great for setting planes on fire. It has a wicked tailslide kinda what was seen in lepepe's film, and is very easily recovered for a reversal. Also this bird, you will want to come in with at least 10k in alt and work your way down. It will turn, but you have to be very careful with it.
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I try to avoid the 20mm option... The clip is really short and once I go 20mm on it I have to re-learn the 37mm for several weeks to regain my ability to shoot with it! :rofl
The 37mm really is the best option, ballistics problems aside. With the 20mm you can get 3-4 solid kills at 15 rounds per kill (assuming you're very good on trigger discipline) but with the 37mm you can get 5-7 kills because it only takes 1 hit. On average I'd say it takes me 20-25 20mm rounds expended to down a plane in a good shot, but only 3-5 37mm shots expended to down a plane. It gives you a lot more "fight" per sortie.
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I don't see it that way with our in-game model Guppy. The only time I've ever really departed was when at the top of a stalled out zoom/loop or at stall speed inverted in a barrel roll with flaps out, and those are recoverable even at relatively low alts.
To me what gets you dead in this plane is the performance specs. Other planes just outfly you and shoot you down. The handling itself is rather normal in my opinion (as-modeled, that is)
But you aren't a newb Krusty :)
I'm suggesting that if you threw a newbie AH pilot into a 39 and sent him out to learn the game, he'd struggle with handling because it isn't a Spit or another easy handling bird. Remember that it's reputation was built on the words of a lot of new pilots getting into them and the word getting passed on. Park in his book approaches the 39 with that trepidation and his inexperience shows in his first flights with the snap roll, tumbling off the top of a loop etc. By the time he's a combat 39 driver he knows the edges and how to get there safely in a 39.
Think B26 Marauder. Turned out to be very effective in the hands of experienced, qualified pilots. "One a day in Tampa Bay" wasn't based on the efforts of experienced, qualified pilots :)
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I prefer the 39D and I Usually stay in the 10 to 15k range to fight this way if i get into trouble i can dive way building massive e, but when doing this you have to watch it cuz e bleeds fast so SA is crucial and knowing when to fight and when to fold
I also use the 20mm option short bursts work well and when 20`s are out 4 30`s and 2 50`s are just as good when converged at same point
my .02
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P39-D is the better of the P39 line. With the 20mm you can hit easier and it does not take much to score a kill. It is really great for setting planes on fire. It has a wicked tailslide kinda what was seen in lepepe's film, and is very easily recovered for a reversal. Also this bird, you will want to come in with at least 10k in alt and work your way down. It will turn, but you have to be very careful with it.
Er, no. The P-39Q completely owns the D model. Better sustained turn rate, better acceleration, better climb, 15 mph+ faster at critical altitude... The only area where the D model has an advantage is in firepower, assuming the Q doesn't have the under-wing guns installed.
If effectiveness is a measurement, then I'll take the P-39Q over the D model.