Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: SmokinLoon on July 16, 2011, 08:58:19 AM
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I'd like to see the ability for aircraft to zoom in their sight reduced by about half. I know with the gv's, it seems they all can zoom in to about 2.5X regardless of which position you are view from. I have not really tested the zoom magnification in the aircraft, but I know it makes shooting tanks with the IL-2 and Hurricane IID a lot easier as well as shooting down bombers while in a fighter.
One has to wonder if the amount of zoom was reduced or removed just how different the game would be. That, and reduce the gv icon to 1000 yards for aircraft. I've always wondered why there is so much zoom capability for the aircraft when they didnt have anything but the naked eye to work with in the real deal.
The thread about tank guns shooting down aircraft finally made me make a wish thread on the matter. :)
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I zoom in all the time, but it is more to be able to distinguish the aircraft from the background objects. specially if it is a dark skin against the tree line. since it seems the maps only have two colors, dark green and darker green it would make it harder to aim at low flying aircraft.
there a lot more use of this zoom against other fighters than against tanks or buffs. also remember you wont be able to see the base, town, cv unless you are at 1/2 the distance that it is now. specially for cv's you would really need to fly over it and have basically no time to adjust to be able to sink it. currently there's about 15 to 20 second window from the time you see a cv till you are able to drop, to adjust course, calibrate, drop. reduce it by 1/2 and sinking becomes a lot harder. also jabos at 20k may not be able to see the cv either. actually you probably wont be able to see the base/town from 25 or 30k.
not a very good wish.
semp
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Previously, I rarely use the Zoom in fighters. I have started to use it now and then recently, when going for long tail shots, which are difficult anyway.
I would not miss it if it was removed from fighters. I would miss it in a GV. In the end there are so many downsides in using a virtual world there has to be compromises to make it playable and offset what you cannot replicate. Its a balance that you will never get a full agreement on, but then we do have judge, jury and adjudicator in the form of Hitech and his team. Overall, I think it is a good balance.
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I zoom in all the time, but it is more to be able to distinguish the aircraft from the background objects. specially if it is a dark skin against the tree line. since it seems the maps only have two colors, dark green and darker green it would make it harder to aim at low flying aircraft.
there a lot more use of this zoom against other fighters than against tanks or buffs. also remember you wont be able to see the base, town, cv unless you are at 1/2 the distance that it is now. specially for cv's you would really need to fly over it and have basically no time to adjust to be able to sink it. currently there's about 15 to 20 second window from the time you see a cv till you are able to drop, to adjust course, calibrate, drop. reduce it by 1/2 and sinking becomes a lot harder. also jabos at 20k may not be able to see the cv either. actually you probably wont be able to see the base/town from 25 or 30k.
not a very good wish.
semp
So basically you are saying that the zoom gives you/us an advantage to do things in AH that could not be done in the real deal? Like, level bombing CV's? Like, precision bombing from 30,000 feet?. Etc. In WWII, level bombers did not sink cv's or any other combat ships (merchant/supply shipping yes). From 30,000 heavy bombers did what they called carpet bombing and hope they hit something.
I can see bases etc from 30k without zooming in, only the detailed precision would be missed. Only the bomb sight would be you guide. I'm not saying we need to remove it completely, but perhaps reduce the amount of zoom we currently have for aircraft. Also, jabos from 20k wont have any trouble finding their target, especially cv's. If it did become an issue, HTC could increase the wake size and brighten the wake up a bit, that is how scouts found enemy shipping in WWII.
Im just beginning to think that the accuracy is a bit too good for certain things, namely the IL-2/Hurricane IID, etc. Also, there are player positions that didnt have access to optics that have the same zoom as a TC. Fighter pilots didnt have optics. Bomber defensive gunners didnt have zoom. Tank/M3/gv drivers didnt have zoom.
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No, zoom makes up for what pixels on a monitor cannot convey, real human eyesight.
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So basically you are saying that the zoom gives you/us an advantage to do things in AH that could not be done in the real deal? Like, level bombing CV's? Like, precision bombing from 30,000 feet?. Etc. In WWII, level bombers did not sink cv's or any other combat ships (merchant/supply shipping yes). From 30,000 heavy bombers did what they called carpet bombing and hope they hit something.
I can see bases etc from 30k without zooming in, only the detailed precision would be missed. Only the bomb sight would be you guide. I'm not saying we need to remove it completely, but perhaps reduce the amount of zoom we currently have for aircraft. Also, jabos from 20k wont have any trouble finding their target, especially cv's. If it did become an issue, HTC could increase the wake size and brighten the wake up a bit, that is how scouts found enemy shipping in WWII.
Im just beginning to think that the accuracy is a bit too good for certain things, namely the IL-2/Hurricane IID, etc. Also, there are player positions that didnt have access to optics that have the same zoom as a TC. Fighter pilots didnt have optics. Bomber defensive gunners didnt have zoom. Tank/M3/gv drivers didnt have zoom.
this is a game, not real life. and this game gives us an advantage over real life. fine are good the way they're are. parts of what you are arguing about have been discussed to death.
semp
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No, zoom makes up for what pixels on a monitor cannot convey, real human eyesight.
Zoomed in gives you an actual 1:1 view. You have no peripheral vision on a computer monitor, however.
"Normal" view gives you that peripheral vision that is otherwise lacking.
So, when you are "zoomed in" your view isn't actually magnified.
wrongway
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Zoomed in view ratio varies depending on the monitor. I think it was 1:1 on a 17" CRT, which was as I recall the most common monitor in 2000 when AH was released. On my current 19" widescreen it is a bit better than 1:1. On my next screen, a 27" widescreen, it will be much better than 1:1.
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Zoomed in gives you an actual 1:1 view. You have no peripheral vision on a computer monitor, however.
"Normal" view gives you that peripheral vision that is otherwise lacking.
So, when you are "zoomed in" your view isn't actually magnified.
Full zoom in an aircraft has the same magnification level as the tank gunner's sight in a Panzer (or any similar GV), which is supposed to be 2.5X. So either it IS magnified, or the tank gunsights are broken. Your call.
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Zoomed in view ratio varies depending on the monitor. I think it was 1:1 on a 17" CRT, which was as I recall the most common monitor in 2000 when AH was released. On my current 19" widescreen it is a bit better than 1:1. On my next screen, a 27" widescreen, it will be much better than 1:1.
Well it also depends on how close you sit to the screen in that case!
While I understand what you are saying - the information in view remains unchanged.
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Full zoom in an aircraft has the same magnification level as the tank gunner's sight in a Panzer (or any similar GV), which is supposed to be 2.5X. So either it IS magnified, or the tank gunsights are broken. Your call.
If I remember correctly I think you posted some images from both aircraft and GV's that showed the the same size view when zoomed in. Thus the, aircraft view is 1.1 when not in zoom. But are we shown more artwork than we should be in the cockpit when not in Zoom ?
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Full zoom in an aircraft has the same magnification level as the tank gunner's sight in a Panzer (or any similar GV), which is supposed to be 2.5X. So either it IS magnified, or the tank gunsights are broken. Your call.
After compairing TC zoom versus gunsight zoom in some gv's last night, I think the TC zoom is broken in that it is the same as, or really close as the default gunsight zoom.
It seemed that the TC zoom in the M-3 GMC is a little less than the 1.6x gunsight zoom. Trees looked about the same size zoomed in all the way in TC position in a Tiger as the default gunsight zoom. Same for the M-4/76.
So I would say that at the very least TC zoom is not consistant between different gv platforms. It seems consistant for different aircraft which I have always assumed is 1:1.
wrongway
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That, and reduce the gv icon to 1000 yards for aircraft.
600yds. IMO, it should just say "GV" no ID on the tank model. If you can't tell the difference between a Tiger and an M3, you don't need to be bombing.
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600yds. IMO, it should just say "GV" no ID on the tank model. If you can't tell the difference between a Tiger and an M3, you don't need to be bombing.
like it will make a difference when you drop a bomb? lol
semp
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After compairing TC zoom versus gunsight zoom in some gv's last night, I think the TC zoom is broken in that it is the same as, or really close as the default gunsight zoom.
It seemed that the TC zoom in the M-3 GMC is a little less than the 1.6x gunsight zoom. Trees looked about the same size zoomed in all the way in TC position in a Tiger as the default gunsight zoom. Same for the M-4/76.
So I would say that at the very least TC zoom is not consistant between different gv platforms. It seems consistant for different aircraft which I have always assumed is 1:1.
wrongway
All of he TC's have 2.5X zoom (ditto w drivers when applicable). It is easy to see on the Panzer IV (it has 2.4X in the gun sight), M4/75mm has 2.5, both T34's have 2.5. The M3 has a 1.6 (iirc) and the M8 is about as bad.
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It would make a difference semp. some, maybe even most, won't realize that I'm in a flack, and not a tank. The average player's ability to identify vehicles from the air is dismal in most cases. They can't tell the difference between T-34/76 and T-34/85, or Firefly and M4(76). Most will think "oh, a panzer. easy kill, and some perks for me." only too late will they realize their grevious mistake (if the gunner is smart, and holds fire untill the A/C is close).
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It would make a difference semp. some, maybe even most, won't realize that I'm in a flack, and not a tank. The average player's ability to identify vehicles from the air is dismal in most cases. They can't tell the difference between T-34/76 and T-34/85, or Firefly and M4(76). Most will think "oh, a panzer. easy kill, and some perks for me." only too late will they realize their grevious mistake (if the gunner is smart, and holds fire untill the A/C is close).
I dont think so.
semp
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I've measured the magnification of the T34/85 and plane views. With my eyes 18" from my 24" LCD (their normal location) the T34/85 sight view gives exactly 2.5X, i.e. real life since the sight had 2.5x magnification. The commanders view is also 2.5x at max zoom and about 0.4x (i.e. wider view than real life) at minimum zoom. The planes have exactly the same magnification as the commanders view. The closest thing to 1:1 for planes (or commander) is hitting the Z key but not adjusting the [ or ] keys from their default (it's actually about 0.8x).
Obviously if your monitor is larger or smaller or you sit closer or farther away, it's different.
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Semp, go ahead and ask the flyboys to identify what model of tank it is next time they're spotting. Unless they've gotten a lot better since last tour, odds are they give you the wrong answer or say "IDK, I can't tell"
And even aside from that, they probably won't see flackers hiding in trees or in barns. IMO, it really should be set to 600yds. GV's are far too visible from the air. If a tank is hiding in some trees, hes not hidden from the air.
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Semp, go ahead and ask the flyboys to identify what model of tank it is next time they're spotting. Unless they've gotten a lot better since last tour, odds are they give you the wrong answer or say "IDK, I can't tell"
And even aside from that, they probably won't see flackers hiding in trees or in barns. IMO, it really should be set to 600yds. GV's are far too visible from the air. If a tank is hiding in some trees, hes not hidden from the air.
when you realize that from the air it doesnt matter which variant it that... never mind just realize you cant argue with some people. just glad hitech does know bs smells like.
semp
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if you're a spotter aircraft (which I fly regularly), then it certinaly does matter what variant of tank is on the ground. Its your job to inform the GV'ers of targets and threats, and a Firefly needs to be handled with MUCH more care than an M4(75).
And whats the argument against a reduction of GV icon range, exactly? how is it realistic for an La-7 streaking by at 380mph to see a panzer hidden in a barn from 1500yds out?
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Isn't this argument in it's totality with the creator of this game? You personaly do not like his presentation of zoomable vision in his game universe.
That being so, why not reframe from the business as usual tactic of squabling with detractors to your argument and instead keep your question focused directly to the creator and wait for his reasponse. Like the supreme court, if he chooses to not respond, that is his policy for the given subject like it or not. The attendant squabbling is likley not selling your argument as other than one persons dissatisfaction.
Be careful in thinking you know better than he does about his game or second guessing his motives. Over the years it's been shown that he responds to reasoned logic with facts and data. Show him with facts and mathmatical data where your personal observation is of benifit to the whole Aces High community. Not just yourself.
HiTech once changed the default POV for aircraft gunsights but, only after a lengthy and well presented mathmatical presentation by a long term and well trusted member of this community.
1.) How will this change benifit anyone else but yourself?
2.) Can you prove mathmaticly HiTech has errored in his presentation?
3.) Do you have any other evidence for your argument than your personal feelings?
Answer those three in some depth and you might get a notice by the man.......afterall you are telling him he made a mistake in a public forum that the whole world is free to read. Back it up now that you have challenged him.
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Isn't this argument in it's totality with the creator of this game? You personaly do not like his presentation of zoomable vision in his game universe.
That being so, why not reframe from the business as usual tactic of squabling with detractors to your argument and instead keep your question focused directly to the creator and wait for his reasponse. Like the supreme court, if he chooses to not respond, that is his policy for the given subject like it or not. The attendant squabbling is likley not selling your argument as other than one persons dissatisfaction.
Be careful in thinking you know better than he does about his game or second guessing his motives. Over the years it's been shown that he responds to reasoned logic with facts and data. Show him with facts and mathmatical data where your personal observation is of benifit to the whole Aces High community. Not just yourself.
HiTech once changed the default POV for aircraft gunsights but, only after a lengthy and well presented mathmatical presentation by a long term and well trusted member of this community.
1.) How will this change benifit anyone else but yourself?
2.) Can you prove mathmaticly HiTech has errored in his presentation?
3.) Do you have any other evidence for your argument than your personal feelings?
Answer those three in some depth and you might get a notice by the man.......afterall you are telling him he made a mistake in a public forum that the whole world is free to read. Back it up now that you have challenged him.
"just because" is rational logic... isn't it?