Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Greebo on August 03, 2011, 10:32:20 AM
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Lyric1 has found me a load of photos and other stuff on these two A6M2 schemes. The one with the orange tail is from the 381st Kokutai and the one with the pale grey tail is from the 331st Kokutai. The 381st aircraft has squadron leader stripes and is skinned in a much less worn state, as is shown in the photos I have of these two planes.
The pale grey wings and tail is a theater ID scheme, similar in concept to Allied D Day stripes. This scheme was applied to all IJNAF fighters participating in the summer 1944 offensive against the British and Indian armies in Malaya, this included the 301st, 331st and 381st Kokutais. The IJNAF order originally called for just the right wingtip and vertical tail to be painted pale grey, however all the photos of this scheme show both wings painted. The 381st aircraft had their vertical tails painted orange rather than pale grey.
The summer offensive ran from April to June 1944 and had much in common with the Battle of the Bulge. It initially caught the British by surprise as it was undertaken through very difficult terrain where an offensive was thought impossible. However the British General Slim reacted quickly, using Allied air power to transport thousands of troops into the area quickly. The offensive stalled on Kohima ridge a few miles from a huge Allied supply dump. Weeks of vicious hand to hand fighting resulted in a stalemate which ended when the Japanese ran out of food. The terrain they had advanced through made it impossible to bring up sufficient supplies so they were forced to retreat. More Japanese troops subsequently died of starvation and disease in the retreat than in the actual fighting.
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots/331_Kokutai_A6M2_SC1.jpg)
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots/331_Kokutai_A6M2_SC2.jpg)
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots/381_Kokutai_A6M2_SC1.jpg)
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots/381_Kokutai_A6M2_SC2.jpg)
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I still think there's no proof the tail was orange. Doesn't look it in the 1-2 photos.
Much like the "orange" P-40 nose we just discussed, I don't think it existed.
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Greebo,
Great work on the skin! Would you be able to supply us some pictures you referred to during your time skinning these profiles? Just to double check the sources since Krusty doesn't seem convinced (as the norm).
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Greebo,
Great work on the skin! Would you be able to supply us some pictures you referred to during your time skinning these profiles? Just to double check the sources since Krusty doesn't seem convinced (as the norm).
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a6m2_331.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a6m2_31-1xx.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a6m2_331ku_color.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a6m2_babo_whitetips_a.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/A6M2_zer0-sen_hv-tail_Philippines_1944-W-nankai46.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a6m2_331ku.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a6m2_31-130_mokyme.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Military_Classics1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/81-181_01.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/81-181_02.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Sweet1a.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Sweet1b.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/09626.jpg)
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(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/81-181_02.jpg)
-This picture above appears to make sense with the colored plane profiles below. Look at the third A6M towards the back next to the Betty. The vertical stabilizer appears to be a bit darker than the shade of grey in the other photos. Also, the red stripe on the stabilizer looks consistent with the colored profiles. I am not an expert at plane profiling and examination, but I would trust that these sources are accurate.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Sweet1a.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Sweet1b.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/09626.jpg)
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Nice job Greebo. :aok
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The first picture Lyric posted shows 381st aircraft in a "boneyard". The vertical tail is clearly a mid shade between the green camo and the pale grey on the outboard wings. The photo Plazus mentioned also shows this shade. As the other sources say this colour is orange, I've done it orange. If Krusty or anyone else has any proof it was a different colour, I'd be happy to change it.
Incidentally the 2nd and 3rd photos posted were combat shots taken from a PBY patrol plane.
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Great looking Zeke skins Greebo :salute
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Thanks for awesome skins. <S>
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The first picture Lyric posted shows 381st aircraft in a "boneyard". The vertical tail is clearly a mid shade between the green camo and the pale grey on the outboard wings. The photo Plazus mentioned also shows this shade. As the other sources say this colour is orange, I've done it orange. If Krusty or anyone else has any proof it was a different colour, I'd be happy to change it.
Incidentally the 2nd and 3rd photos posted were combat shots taken from a PBY patrol plane.
Also explains why in two photos the 381ST aircraft have what looks like white numbers painted on the tails. If they painted a plain white number on that grey/green paint it would be near invisible.
There is a third colour in play here :aok & since evidence shows it to be orange at this point based off of the profiles & art work.
Orange it is.
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excellent work as usual greebo. :cheers:
thanks. :salute
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Also explains why in two photos the 381ST aircraft have what looks like white numbers painted on the tails. If they painted a plain white number on that grey/green paint it would be near invisible.
There is a third colour in play here :aok & since evidence shows it to be orange at this point based off of the profiles & art work.
Orange it is.
I think this photo I have from a Japanese magazine sums up what I am talking about.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a6mlightcolourtail-1-1.jpg)
The Japanese text that Rolex translated. Thank you again Rolex.
The Nakajima model 21 was usually painted in a green and black camouflage. The plane on the left has a very unusual white tail that may have been repaired, so the underlying camouflage paint on the parts may have been removed or not painted yet.
The white numbers are very hard to read, but may be "81-142." Starting in November, 1943, the 281st air group was stationed in the Marshall Islands.
Clearly the fellow who wrote this was not aware of the special markings that was ordered from Japanese high command so he is a little puzzled as to why this aircraft looks this way.
The belly of this plane would have been done in green/grey & the orders were given to paint a wing tip & the tail with the same colour paint.
Clearly what is painted on the underside of the aircraft is not what is painted on the tail.
I also think the guy who wrote this is wrong in regards to a white tail painted with white numbers? :headscratch: Why? well white on white is ahhh??? white.
So you would never be able to read them at all. So the tail has a third colour in play here other than white & the green /grey.
Looking at the tail of this plane I think it is the same aircraft in this photo.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/81-181_02-1.jpg)
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damn nice work greebo! looks amazing as always.
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:cheers:
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Please tell me you'll submit them... I'd love to fly em. :x Awesome looking. :rock
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Thank you guys. I've already submitted these and all the other skins I've done recently.
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Just for the record, I was unconvinced that it was orange. I was unconvinced that you could tell it was orange from those references, specifically. There are a number of possible variations based on those initial photos, including the one of the boneyard. In black and white it looks like another shade of grey. does that grey mean grey? Or green? It's similar to the center of the hinomaru, so is it bright red? No, surely not. You can interpret a lot from B&W but you cannot tell color. You can't even compare shades and say "it must be between this and that" because it doesn't come out that way in the photo compared to the subject.
My point was: I doubted the orange. One thing lends some logical support to the idea, though:
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a6mlightcolourtail-1-1.jpg)
Skipping the translated caption, the interesting thing is the number codes are white as mentioned. You wouldn't put white on white. Or white on grey, even. Assuming it was some shade of light colored paint it would most likely be black codes.
To me, that logically says a lot more than black and white photos that don't convey true tone or color. Even though you can't tell what color, you can get a piece of the puzzle.
With all the above in mind, I'll admit it's quite possible the tail was orange, as depicted. I wouldn't have thought so without the above photo, though.
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that tail is clearly....yellow......... :neener:
I am just messin with ya :D
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the interesting thing is the number codes are white as mentioned. You wouldn't put white on white. Or white on grey, even. Assuming it was some shade of light colored paint it would most likely be black codes.
Also explains why in two photos the 381ST aircraft have what looks like white numbers painted on the tails. If they painted a plain white number on that grey/green paint it would be near invisible.
I also think the guy who wrote this is wrong in regards to a white tail painted with white numbers? :headscratch: Why? well white on white is ahhh??? white.
So you would never be able to read them at all. So the tail has a third colour in play here other than white & the green /grey.
:huh Oh my gawd.
Déjà vu.
Welcome to the dark side Krusty. :D
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lyric, if you recall I was saying originally in the first photos posted it didn't even look like much of a different shade. Assuming it was green or a fresh coat of green, white made perfect sense (at the time), so you can see the photo really brought it back into the logical realm for me.
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lyric, if you recall I was saying originally in the first photos posted it didn't even look like much of a different shade. Assuming it was green or a fresh coat of green, white made perfect sense (at the time), so you can see the photo really brought it back into the logical realm for me.
That photo is why I started buying Japanese magazines. A lot they have over there is just starting to come to light as the Japanese veterans are dieing off & their belongings such as photos are being made public. Not that different to here in the west I would imagine.
The white tipped zeros have only come to light in the past 10 years & only seem to have been known about here in the west less than that. That Ki-67 that I posted is a prime example who would have believed nose art by the Japanese? I wouldn't have,as time passes I think a lot more unusual stuff will surface as personal belongings change hands.
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I cant wait to watch that new skin burn :t
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Will you receive an email or something if these skins are accepted? Or will it just appear in AH one day? Gettin itchy to fly em... :x
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HTC go through the skins they have received about three times a year. I believe Pyro does most of the checking to make sure they are historically correct and of a good enough quality. When a batch is being processed emails are sent to the skinners to say they have received your skin and are looking at it and then a week or so later they send you an acceptance or rejection email for it.
I'm not sure if they wait until they have received a certain number of skins or its just done when they have some spare time. However the last three batches of skins were processed 5,6 and 4 months apart and the last batch was three months ago. So if they stick with that frequency we are looking at another one to three months for the next batch to appear in the game.
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Ah, thank you. I was curious how they went about with the skins. I hope you get an acceptance email on these. :salute