Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: funked on May 19, 2000, 04:19:00 AM
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I don't think we should get a colored icon at 9000 yds. That's about 5 miles. I really doubt any of us could see a WW2 fighter well enough to tell what markings it has at 5 miles.
Also at that range I think it would be pretty hard to judge the distance in 100 yd. increments like we can.
I blame this, as well as the in-flight radar and sector counters, for the dominance of "stand-off" fighting in the main arena. I see very little dogfighting, mostly lots of climbing and running to friends, then gangbanging one or two bandits.
The icons allow you, from 5 miles away, to know exactly how many friends or enemies are in the fight, and judge their energy states. What I see people doing is being agressive if they have a numbers/energy advantage, or extending and climbing if they don't.
In WW2 people made the same decisions, but they had to get a LOT closer than 5 miles before they make them. Usually they had to get nearly in guns range before they could assess the situation accurately. By that point one was often committed to the fight, like it or not.
Take away the WW3 laser range finder and IFF transponders and we might see something like WW2 combat. But if we allow people to make decisions about the enemy's numbers and energy state at 5 miles, we'll see the same dull tactics being utilized.
Take a look at what Vyper (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/002920.html) (a real fighter jock) has said. I have read quotes by several other pilots (including WW2 vets) who state very similar numbers. And keep in mind Vyper is talking about aircraft that are a bit larger than WW2 fighters.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-19-2000).]
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I agree FUNKED. I think that range could become visible at less than 6,000yds, and a/c type at 3-4,000yds
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 05-19-2000).]
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preach on brother funked! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I agree, reduce icon range! Atleast plane type should not be visible at extreme ranges. I think it should already be possible to configure them?
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jochen Jagdflieger JG 2 'Richthofen' Aces High
jochen Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2) Warbirds
Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!
Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
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Icons would be nice from 3000-4000 yards (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I hope they convert those 'dots' into 'planes' soon though. (can't see differences on plane in distance if it has camouflage or pure metal colour, which reflects sun like mirror)
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I hope it didn't sound too whiny. It's not like I'm having a problem getting kills with the current system. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I just think a change in the system would encourage a form of fighting that is closer to what was done in the war, and probably more enjoyable for the players.
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*gasp* Never thought it would be you Funked that would break the "icon debate" truce, tsk tsk and only after a single day. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
While your proposal wouldnt' hurt me any (make my job easier and make my kills go up) you guys gotta think about the average player once in a while. Most of them need these "crutches" as you call them, while they build up their skills.
And funked.....
I blame this, as well as the in-flight radar and sector counters, for the dominance of "stand-off" fighting in the main arena. I see very little dogfighting, mostly lots of climbing and running to friends, then gangbanging one or two bandits.
LOL!! Come on my friend (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) You if anybody here, knows that this is really what the whole war was about.
Hit and Run, E Fighting, Gangbanging, and speed & firepower, turned into the utter stark horrible reality of air combat in WWII.
Either way is fine by me however, since reduced icons actually make Hit and Run, BnZ tactics even more effective.
This "good dogfight", knights of the air, honorable one versus one fight bullpucky, just wasn't the reality of the war.
If you want to fight that way in the Arena, fine by me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Have fun.
Just don't try to convince me thats the way the real war was. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Vermillion (sorry to join you in breaking truce)-
I think they are talking about the SEA/HA, and want the ability to change icon setting type. At least I hope that's what they meant, because I agree the MA has too many beginners or low-end equipment users or color-blind people, etc. to deal with to make this work IMHO. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Vermillion you are confusing WW2 E-fighting with the ability to get IFF and energy estimates at 5 miles range.
WW2 pilots could NOT do that.
You had to get almost into the fight BEFORE you knew what the numbers were.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-19-2000).]
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I didn't claim the pilots could do that Funked.
I just stated that the tactics which you were commenting on as "unrealistic", were the bread and butter of WWII fighter pilots.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Bread and butter of SOME WWII fighter pilots. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
My proposal:
Nothing beyond 3.0k
Inside 3.0k give range info with a neutral color.
Inside 2.0k add country and type info.
Inside 1.0k disable range info.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-19-2000).]
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I thought I saw a post here from someone who explained how far they could actualy recognize planes. or at least plane categories.as far as I can assess the icons in AH are fairly right. But I agree something has to change.
Maybe it would be more fun when (in order of distance)
A You see a dot
B You see the crafts type
C You see the distance to the craft
D You see if it's an enemy or not !
This feels a lot better and more logical to me.. also shortening the range counter to kick in at 3K or so might help..
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There a link to it in my first post - click on Vyper.
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Yep, I'll jump on this bandwagon. Right now it's just too easy to avoid a fight. I like Funked's suggestions.
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Go funked Go !!!!
With ya 100%....
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punt
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I'd like to add my voice to the 'nays' to the billboard icons, at the very least, have a reduced icon scheme as suggested above.
Maybe this could be implemented in the SEA arena where if all goes well we might also have a two sided conflict, (discussion on First Allied thread).
Come to think of it, in an arena where plane types belong to specific sides, we shouldn't need icons at all?
Cheers
Yosus
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“One day, flight simulation will be so realistic, that you’ll need to wear brown corduroy … “
Phoenix Squadron.
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I don't know if making icon range less will make the fights more fun .. IMHO most people will go even higher and be even less aggressive.
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Yep, good ideas. I'd like to have some (lots (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )icons editing options in the arena settings too.
H2H and SEA are the right places to do the testing, imho.
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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Duckwing6 has a good point. If people are not being agressive (enough for some) with the current system, with all it's advantages, do we expect people to just charge right in when the see a high dot and will have no idea what/who it is until they are fully committed to a fight? Or, are we all going to be grabbing to 30k from rear fields to be sure to have an advantage when we find that dot? Then running away from any higher dots, while yelling on the radio "any friendlies in sector x.x????"
Be careful what you wish for. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
popeye
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Vyper's comments are very true for the real world where 20:10-20:20 eyesight will carry you. In this virtual world of Mr.Magoo's I would respectfully disagree on changing the distance at which tags show. You want to agrue for a change in the data shown, I am with you.
Lobby for a HA where NO TAGS are the rule, I and my squad will be there. Then the inyourface down and dirty dog fights can happpen...untill you lose sight as they cut brush trying to get home (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I totally agree with you funked.
From the full-scale flying I do, it is[/i] hard to spot traffic (cons (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) let alone identify it, and thats only with the relatively easy task of flying light-planes! With all there is to keep a pilot busy in a WWII warbird, I would find it extremely tough to identify, let alone spot anything from the range we can in AH. I saw a 182 *just* about land on a Kitfox at Oshkosh a few years back when they were on final, about to flare. The 182 got within a few feet of the Kitfox, just above him, and finally, in a very jerky motion (pilot probably crapped himself) it went full throttle and got the hell out of there. You'd think that the 182 would have been able to see this bright yellow Kitfox he was about to land on, but when you're taking care of other tasks, you tend to keep your eyes fixed on the panel. We have no distractions, thus letting us scan the sky constantly. Couple that with 5-mile icons, you have much more information before entering a furball than WWII pilots had. Leave friendly icons alone though, so they eliminate wild goose chases, like popeye suggested.
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DP, sorry
[This message has been edited by MarkVZ (edited 07-20-2000).]
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I dinnae about icons helping judge E state.
I start trying to evaluate a contact's E state as soon as I see the dot. When I'm approaching a furball I watch for the dots BnZ'ing through the fight, hoping they're bandits and planning to catch them at the top of thier zoom (then zoom up again myself). Time I get there I've already got 1, occasionally 2 targets picked out. Half the time I've picked a friendly aircraft, and have to reevaluate the situation (like I'm not already doing that second to second (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) ).
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JimBear - The point is that the 5-mile icons give us capability BEYOND what a real pilot with excellent eyesight can do. All I'm proposing is to give us some realistic IFF and range estimating ability, as opposed to the Bionic Man/Radar/HUD Star Wars stuff we have now.
Caveman - Yes you can judge energy from the angular motion of the dot, but when you combine the dot motion with closure rate information from the range number, you can estimate it rather better. And in this game you can do it at ranges where a real pilot would be struggling just to get a tally.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 07-20-2000).]