Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Rich52 on August 10, 2011, 05:10:54 PM
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Why no Brit designed tanks in the game ? In the Africa, ME, and Euro theater the Brits were a huge tank player, and often on their own. Why not the A-34 Comet ? Certainly a tank that could run with anything in the game, and sporting the deadly 17lb'er. Even the Crusader-lll would be an interesting addition. Yes I know it had light armor and only a 6lb main gun, but it was fast and the 6lb gun, be it on a tank or an ATG, could not be ignored by an enemy. It could be a fine perk farmer with a high enough eny. For that matter a Soviet breakthru tank like the IS-2 would be nice too.
Dont get me wrong. If a year ago I was asked what two new tanks would generate the most excitement in the game, and even tho Im not much a tanker, I would have said the Panther and the Tiger-2. Maybe now it would be nice to see some other gaps filled too. :salute
Oh, and we need another Brit CV based plane too. ;)
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Sherman VC Firefly is British.
Russians only have 1 more tank than the brits, US only has 1 more, Germany only has 3 more, Italy has no tanks, Japan has no tanks.
In general, the quality of british tanks wasn't great.
Matilda: slow as **** and with a 2lber squirt gun. That said, it had fair armor
Crusader: same 2lber squirt gun, weak armor, but faster
Valentine: thicker armor than the crusader, but slower, 6lber gun, no coaxil MG
Cromwell: thicker armor, but with a weak 75mm gun
Churchill: slow, weak gun in the versions with the thickest armor. Best bet would be a Mk III, which would be just slightly inferior to the Panzer IV.
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Comet wasn't bad as I recall.
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Oh yes, the Comet. Forgot about that one. Wouldn't mind seeing it eventually, but would like to see more EW/MW additions first.
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we could get one of the Crocodile churchhills with a flamethrower that would look cool. could burn the town down. :cheers:
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Matilda and Matilda II would be a good additions. I really don't consider the Firefly a British tank as it's just a modified Sherman.
ack-ack
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+1 for the Churchill, Crusader III and Matilda
-1 for the Comet it only saw the crossing of the Rhine
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I'd rather see the British AEC armored car - only a 6 lb'er (57mm?) but would be a definite improvement vs the M8.
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-1 for the Comet it only saw the crossing of the Rhine
Me163. Ta152H-1. Ar234. Tiger II.
German units in AH don't seem limited by that.
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Tiger II saw a little action in Normandy. Not disagreeing with you, just saying.
AKAK, the Matilda I had only a single machine. If you're desperate for a Matilda I, just up a tank and don't use the cannon :D.
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Tiger II saw a little action in Normandy. Not disagreeing with you, just saying.
AKAK, the Matilda I had only a single machine. If you're desperate for a Matilda I, just up a tank and don't use the cannon :D.
Tiger II in Normandy? I don't believe that one. You have a source?
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IMO, the best thing HTC could do is to introduce the Cromwell with choice of either 75mm or 6pdr gun. The 75mm version would not offer anything the Sherman M4/75mm already offers except 5-6 more mph of speed, but the 6pdr version with mid to late war HVAP ammo could add an angle we do not currently have. Or, maybe better yet add the Valentine tank with choice of 2 Pdr or 6 Pdr guns, then the EW and MW versions could be had easily.
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IDK, even with HVAP, I think the Cromwell would merit an ENY 35. T-34/76 is about on par with the Panzer IV on paper, but the panzer kicks it's bellybutton in the game.
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Sherman VC Firefly is British.
The gun was British. The tank was Yank.
The Comet meets the criteria of inclusion in the game. It was in theater on a divisional level before the war ended and did see action.
Another possible would be the Daimler AC. A fast and useful scout with the fine 2lb'er on her.
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IDK, even with HVAP, I think the Cromwell would merit an ENY 35. T-34/76 is about on par with the Panzer IV on paper, but the panzer kicks it's bellybutton in the game.
The Cromwell would have the speed (nearly) of the T34/76, similar armor (slightly in favor of the T34/76), and a much faster firing gun (both the 75mm and 6pdr had double to reload rate of the T34/76). I dont think it would be any worse off than the T34/76, actually I think it would be better in AH due to how tanks are used. For sure, the HE would be better and the AP capability would favor the Cromwell.
The Panzer IV H has less armor for a tank typical of that size in WWII, remember it was originally designed to engage enemy infantry, not armor. That is what the Panzer III was for. Once it was armed with the 75mm Kw.K.40 L / 48 it became a force to be respected offensively, but it couldn't take the heat defensively like the Panther or Tiger.
On the charts, the Panzer IV's 75mm Kw.K.40 L / 48 AP capability performs right up there with (and in many cases superior to) the M4/76mm and T34/85. It doesnt seem that way in the game though, I hope when the Panzer IV is updated everything is double checked, I dont think the Panzer IV is getting it's due offensively, imo.
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Frontal armor was 76mm. Thats thinner than the Panzer's, and the panzer seems none too resiliant to shells.
T-34, for comparison, has something around ~100mm with armor slope factored. With APDS it might be better than the T-34, but with APCR it would be just slighly inferior IMO.
If they gave us APDS, then (on paper) its gun would be slightly superior to even the KwK 40 and M1 76mm, but who knows how much "damage" HTC would have it do.
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Tiger II.
Seen Wartime footage with KTs on the Eastern Front. (In Squadron strength)
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Me163. Ta152H-1. Ar234. Tiger II.
German units in AH don't seem limited by that.
All four of those have kills, how many did the Comet or Meteor have? None (discounting shooting down unmanned V-1 bombs), Pershing seen more combat destroying I believe 2 German tanks and that's it.
Comet is out of the question, however if Brits are so required to have tanks in game then the Churchill or Cromwell have already been asked for. Cruiser tanks could be added when more interest is built for Mid/Ear war.
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Comet did see combat. I find this a bit distasteful, but are you sure it didn't kill any Germans?
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Seen Wartime footage with KTs on the Eastern Front. (In Squadron strength)
Got a link to that? And the ones you mentioned in Normandy?
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I mentioned the Tiger II's in normandy.
They served with Abteilung 503.
Quick link I found on the internet, if you want me to do some more research just ask.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tigers-02.htm
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I mentioned the Tiger II's in normandy.
They served with Abteilung 503.
Quick link I found on the internet, if you want me to do some more research just ask.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tigers-02.htm
Thanks. Interesting stuff. I can do some digging on my own. I've just never seen any photo evidence of Tiger IIs in Normandy. The September and later time frame is what has always stuck in my mind.
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Abteilung 503....served with Army Group West and first saw action in Normandy around Caen. # 3 Kompanie if I recall was the first unit of the Abteilung to see action in IIs since it was the first one to be completely equipped with the IIs.
The PZKW $ was a fine tank and it does not get it's due here in the game. It was updated greatly with the interduction of the F2 specials and later variants to include bolt on armor to the glacis plateing as well as the skurzen which served well as a defense against HEAT rounds. The 75 L48 was a match for any gun up to the the 76mm soviet and american guns. As with any tank it makes it's trade off on side armor as is with many "assault" tanks of it's time. when used as it was supposed to be used it could best even the 34/85.
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All four of those have kills, how many did the Comet or Meteor have? None (discounting shooting down unmanned V-1 bombs), Pershing seen more combat destroying I believe 2 German tanks and that's it.
Comet is out of the question, however if Brits are so required to have tanks in game then the Churchill or Cromwell have already been asked for. Cruiser tanks could be added when more interest is built for Mid/Ear war.
Define kills please in regards to the AR-234?
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1 Kompanie has the Tiger IIs. You're thinking of 3 Kompanie that was devestated by bombing. Not a single one of their Tiger I's escaped without at least having a track blown off.
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1 Kompanie has the Tiger IIs. You're thinking of 3 Kompanie that was devestated by bombing. Not a single one of their Tiger I's escaped without at least having a track blown off.
Battalion staff, 1st Company and 3rd Company received Tiger II tanks along with the Panzer Lehr Division, which also fielded Tiger II tanks during the Battle for Normandy.
ack-ack
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Anyone got any photos of those Tiger IIs in Normandy?
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Anyone got any photos of those Tiger IIs in Normandy?
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/BloodyBandage/KingTigerIIa.jpg)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/BloodyBandage/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-721-0359-35_Canteloup_Panzer_VI_Tiger_II_Knigstiger.jpg)
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They were right in front of me. I've had the Panzer Color's series of books forever going back to the days when my oldest son and I built models of German Armor. They have photos of Tiger II in Normandy
Give me a Panzer MK III with the short barreled 50mm cannon and I'll start driving tanks.
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Anyone got any photos of those Tiger IIs in Normandy?
One of Panzer Lehr Division's Tiger II's abandoned after being bombed during Operation Goodwood.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f5/Tiger_II_-_316PzKp%28fkl%29.jpg)
ack-ack
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All four of those have kills, how many did the Comet or Meteor have? None (discounting shooting down unmanned V-1 bombs), Pershing seen more combat destroying I believe 2 German tanks and that's it.
Comet is out of the question, however if Brits are so required to have tanks in game then the Churchill or Cromwell have already been asked for. Cruiser tanks could be added when more interest is built for Mid/Ear war.
Where did you get your info about the Comet having no kills? When I was researching Tiger I schemes I came across at least one that was knocked out by a Comet. I could probably find the reference again if needed. You could say it was not an important tank as it was only used for the last couple of months of the war, but don't invent bogus facts.
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Picture of a Comet kill of a Tiger from a respected sight. (http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/tigercomet45a.jpg) http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1894
Heres one of an entire Division equipped with Comets rolling thru Germany in March '44. BTW they were fully equipped in December '44. (http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/cruiser-comet-a34-germany-march-30-1945-01.png)
Another Comet kill from another respected sight. (http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/comet-2.jpg) http://www.tiger-tank.com/secure/gallery.htm
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Picture of a Comet kill of a Tiger from a respected sight. (http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/tigercomet45a.jpg) http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1894
Pictures #1 and #3 of the same tank.
ack-ack
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AKAK, 3 Kompanie didn't get their Tiger II's till shortly before Falaise didn't they :headscratch:?
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AKAK, 3 Kompanie didn't get their Tiger II's till shortly before Falaise didn't they :headscratch:?
I think so. 3rd Company received their Tiger II tanks after they lost all of their Tiger tanks to bombers during the first day of Operation Goodwood and around end of July, received their Tiger II's. Due to mostly heavy aerial bombardment, the 503rd only managed to get out of Normandy and back into Germany with only 2 of their Tiger II tanks, the rest being destroyed. One Tiger II was disabled when it was rammed by a Sherman.
Sherman commanded by Lt. Gorman of 2nd Armoured Battalion of the Irish Guard, after it rammed a Tiger II.
(http://www.irishguards.org.uk/images/fullsize/tiger.jpg)
(http://www.archivesnormandie39-45.org/PhotosMD/p002354.jpg)
After crews from both tanks bailed out (One crew ran one way, the other crew ran the other way), Lt. Gorman made it back to his unit and grabbed a Firefly and went back to both disabled tanks and used the 17 pounder to destroy both the Tiger II and Sherman. Interesting story with a little bit of comedic elements such as the Sherman gunner bailing out and trying to run and catch up to his crew that he saw run for the tree line and jump in a ditch. When he made it to his crew mates and jumped in, he realized he followed the wrong crew and it was the Tiger II crew. After calling them some names, he gave them a salute that was supposedly returned and jumped out of the ditch and finally ran in the right direction.
ack-ack
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Alright, thanks for clearing it up.
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Found some photos of Tiger IIs in Normandy on my own shelf. Forgot I had the Panzer Color series :)
Not lots of em, but they were there. Surprised me.
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Tanks did not just fight and kill other tanks, so when I mentioned I was skeptical that the Comet had no kills, I wasn't just referring to German tanks, but also to German soldiers.
I think it is pretty clear that the Comet would be a valid addition, though likely not a high priority addition.
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Cromwell VIII, Comet, Achilles (M10 with 17 pounder), Archer (17 pounder tank destroyer), Churchill VIII, AEC Armored Car with 75mm gun (used in 1944-45), Valentine VIII? would all be good additions. Me personally im more interested in what a nation crewed for AFVs and aircraft and not so much who manufactured them but there are a number of "built in the UK" GVs that certainly deserve some attention and would be great to see.
Of all those I think I would pick the Cromwell VIII as the first. It was used in quantity in the NWE campaign from Normandy untill VE Day.
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I would count the Boston Mk III and Sherman VC Firefly as British. Interestingly, HTC is inconsistent on their units page. The Boston Mk III and Brewster are listed as British and Finnish units respectively despite being American built, but the Sherman VC Firefly is listed as American.
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Sherman VC Firefly is listed as American
Its a small matter I suppose in the great scheme of things as to how HTC lists it but agree. Its just caused confusion as to what the Firefly was. There are a great many people out ther that still think the Sherman Firefly was used by the US Army (which it never was) from what I read on other forums, the BBS here, and other assorted sites. The Firelfy was as British a tank as the B-239 was a Finnish fighter (more or less) and should be under their bannor.
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If the brits were being dissed we'd have actual nights in aces high, so the Irish could leave their lights on during the Blitz. :bolt:
And may the curse of Cromwell be upon you for being overly sensative.
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Define kills please in regards to the AR-234?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg
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well if the Cromwell and the comet should be added why not add the A30 Challenger that replaced the firefly in cromwell platoons.
im just saying they did see action with 30 corps during Market Garden with Cromwell Regiments one per platoon
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Challenger_axb01.jpg)
(http://www.nasenoviny.com/foto_challengertank.jpg)
(http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/tanks/gb/crus/chall/03140.jpg)
(http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/tanks/gb/crus/chall/03139.jpg)
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Because other stuff is needed more right now.