Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: des506 on August 11, 2011, 02:32:04 AM

Title: facebook watch out
Post by: des506 on August 11, 2011, 02:32:04 AM
http://www.businessinsider.com/anonymous-facebook-2011-8 (http://www.businessinsider.com/anonymous-facebook-2011-8)
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: MarineUS on August 11, 2011, 05:39:30 AM
Saw that earlier. This should be fun.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: fbWldcat on August 11, 2011, 05:51:26 AM
Somehow I don't see this succeeding.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: F22RaptorDude on August 11, 2011, 05:52:04 AM
I've removed all personal info. If this does happen i'm going to google +
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Vudu15 on August 11, 2011, 06:13:00 AM
Im not too worried. I liked the bit "they more about you than your family" almost sipt my drink out on that one.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: des506 on August 11, 2011, 06:23:47 AM
the tin foil hats wun work this time...
 :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: MaSonZ on August 11, 2011, 07:52:23 AM
could it be done? possibly. would they do it? doubtful. how many in the group "Anonymus" have a facebook account? lets be real... how many people DONT have a facebook account? i think ive 3 or 4 people on here say they dont, i know of only a handful of other people in real life that dont have one. i dont think its going to happen, but if it does happen then i will be proven wrong.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Shuffler on August 11, 2011, 09:29:02 AM
I've removed all personal info. If this does happen i'm going to google +

Your info is still on their servers even when you remove it.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Skuzzy on August 11, 2011, 09:47:52 AM
Facebook has been hacked so many times, it is ridiculous, but no one seems to care about anything anyone may have gotten.  Any threat of information being exposed is really silly, as it has been done so many times to so many it is not news anymore.

Well, except for the women who had thier "private" photos posted to a public site.  Probably a few others, but in general Facebook folks seem to not really care who gets thier information.

And yet, when I have said that as a passing comment, Facebook folks get all irritated and defensive.  It is a rather bizarre mindset.  They seem to think thier information is secure, when in fact, it really isn't and has never been secure.  Then again, I am pretty certain most Facebook users do not really care about that.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: StokesAk on August 11, 2011, 10:31:00 AM
My drivers ed class is taught by retired and active police officers, the guy that was teaching that day said that the county police would make a facebook of just a random name, put some good looking pictures up there and what not to make it look real. Then they would go around and friend as many people as they could from one school. Teens are so stupid these days they post pictures of the drinking at parties and smoking pot, some of the more dumb ones will post things like "Party at Mike's house tonight he got two kegs from his dad!". When this does happen (on a regular basis sadly) the cops will see that with the facebook they made...

You know what happens next, the fuzz show up at Mikes house and charge the father and all the kids there.

It is hilarious! 
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: MaSonZ on August 11, 2011, 10:34:40 AM
My drivers ed class is taught by retired and active police officers, the guy that was teaching that day said that the county police would make a facebook of just a random name, put some good looking pictures up there and what not to make it look real. Then they would go around and friend as many people as they could from one school. Teens are so stupid these days they post pictures of the drinking at parties and smoking pot, some of the more dumb ones will post things like "Party at Mike's house tonight he got two kegs from his dad!". When this does happen (on a regular basis sadly) the cops will see that with the facebook they made...

You know what happens next, the fuzz show up at Mikes house and charge the father and all the kids there.

It is hilarious! 
if i dont know em, i dont accept em. simple solution  :rolleyes: 
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Skuzzy on August 11, 2011, 01:55:41 PM
if i dont know em, i dont accept em. simple solution  :rolleyes: 

Uh Mason, how do you know if anyone on Facebook is who they claim to be?

One of the new tools the rabid debt collectors use today, is to make Facebook accounts, using names of school friends of the target victim.  There are a number of agencies out there doing that today.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: ink on August 11, 2011, 02:01:03 PM
Uh Mason, how do you know if anyone on Facebook is who they claim to be?

One of the new tools the rabid debt collectors use today, is to make Facebook accounts, using names of school friends of the target victim.  There are a number of agencies out there doing that today.

I have a facebook.....and certainly don't care what "info" can be stolon......there is nothing there that can hurt me....if someone steals my identity...I might be better off :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: MaSonZ on August 11, 2011, 02:05:23 PM
Uh Mason, how do you know if anyone on Facebook is who they claim to be?

One of the new tools the rabid debt collectors use today, is to make Facebook accounts, using names of school friends of the target victim.  There are a number of agencies out there doing that today.
i know who my friends are, small towns where i live. everyone knows everyone...literally. that and its simple enough to test someone when you have no choice but to know them your whole life and be close with them. somethin aint right, i ask a simple question based on the subject that only the true person would know.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: M0nkey_Man on August 11, 2011, 02:09:10 PM
I want a front row seat to this
Title: thier = their
Post by: BoilerDown on August 11, 2011, 02:16:32 PM
Facebook has been hacked so many times, it is ridiculous, but no one seems to care about anything anyone may have gotten.  Any threat of information being exposed is really silly, as it has been done so many times to so many it is not news anymore.

Well, except for the women who had their "private" photos posted to a public site.  Probably a few others, but in general Facebook folks seem to not really care who gets their information.

And yet, when I have said that as a passing comment, Facebook folks get all irritated and defensive.  It is a rather bizarre mindset.  They seem to think their information is secure, when in fact, it really isn't and has never been secure.  Then again, I am pretty certain most Facebook users do not really care about that.

I know and I agree.  I only signed up using a trash email address I use for nothing else, with bogus personal information for everything other than my first name.  Facebook tries to prevent this, but not very hard, it was easy to get around.  My actual friends know who I am on Facebook.  It doesn't protect me if a government agency is looking at my FB posts and seeing where I'm tagged combined with my IP addresses, but it should give some protection against identity theft by someone who doesn't know me.

I'm not signing up for Google+ because they are the same company that sees where I browse every time I do a Google search or hit a web site with Google ad banners (I keep those disabled in Firefox, but sometimes the site doesn't work unless I enable them).  Its just too much info in the hands of one company.  I might relent after a couple of years if Google+ proves that it is not being constantly hacked like Facebook was in its early years, but only if I can use bogus info... they have no reason to know my actual name or birthday.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Grayeagle on August 11, 2011, 02:51:10 PM
LOL.

Someone hacked my wife's Facebook and is in the process of putting porn images here and there ostensibly from Kathy.

Cracks me UP.
I mean ..she gets MAD.
Would hate to see what would happen if she ever got face time with the person.
Ok ok .. yes ..I'd love to see it.
I'd prolly hand her a tire iron and stand out of reach for a few minutes, hopefully out of blood spatter range.

Now and then my facebook gets hacked ..-shrug- ... any that know me can be pretty sure I do not 'do' spam ads or BS or Porn.

Pretty sure.
-evil grin-

-Frank aka GE
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: mechanic on August 11, 2011, 02:55:59 PM
I'm glad I don't use faceburk.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: B-17 on August 11, 2011, 02:57:58 PM
Password changes do anything against hacking?
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: F22RaptorDude on August 11, 2011, 03:02:27 PM
Password changes do anything against hacking?
Depends on how they get in :D

Maybe this is a threat to make people shut down their fb's. They are targeting the person who made it, possible enemies?
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Tupac on August 11, 2011, 03:08:48 PM
I think by "hack" they mean a denial of service attack. I would LOVE to try and see them overload facebooks servers
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: MaSonZ on August 11, 2011, 03:10:45 PM
Password changes do anything against hacking?
unless they have a hacking program that follows your keystrokes, more then likely yes. if you get hacked though and change your password a few times, "delete" your account and open another one if your that into it.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Pigslilspaz on August 11, 2011, 03:15:19 PM
It's Anon, I'm pretty sure they are doing it "for teh lulz". At least Guy Fawkes night is a day after my birthday, lol.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: grizz441 on August 11, 2011, 03:21:12 PM
Facebook has been hacked so many times, it is ridiculous, but no one seems to care about anything anyone may have gotten.  Any threat of information being exposed is really silly, as it has been done so many times to so many it is not news anymore.

Well, except for the women who had thier "private" photos posted to a public site.  Probably a few others, but in general Facebook folks seem to not really care who gets thier information.

And yet, when I have said that as a passing comment, Facebook folks get all irritated and defensive.  It is a rather bizarre mindset.  They seem to think thier information is secure, when in fact, it really isn't and has never been secure.  Then again, I am pretty certain most Facebook users do not really care about that.

I honestly don't care if someone has access to my personal info.  For one, I am just one fishy in a growing pool of 750 million fishies.  And as far as I'm concerned, anything I have ever said on facebook or posted on facebook is for the world to see.  That's how I have always treated it anyways, "Dont post it if you don't want your own mother to see it.", which is actually a possibility now since she joined and added me as a friend recently.  :(
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: MaSonZ on August 11, 2011, 03:22:16 PM
I honestly don't care if someone has access to my personal info.  For one, I am just one fishy in a growing pool of 750 million fishies.  And as far as I'm concerned, anything I have ever said on facebook or posted on facebook is for the world to see.  That's how I have always treated it anyways, "Dont post it if you don't want your own mother to see it.", which is actually a possibility now since she joined and added me as a friend recently.  :(
:rofl :rofl

lucky my mom hasnt done that.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: F22RaptorDude on August 11, 2011, 03:25:07 PM
Not that I put anything personal on, just my number and not a single pic of me. I took all that down. All thats left is my other expendable email adress so i'm good  :aok
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Shuffler on August 11, 2011, 03:44:09 PM
I think by "hack" they mean a denial of service attack. I would LOVE to try and see them overload facebooks servers

DOS is only the start. Initiate a DOS and give them a bit of fixation so you can work elsewhere to gain access. It only takes one weak spot and then you get access to more weak spots. Little steps to own.

While FB surely has server power and load balancing, never think it can't be done. Some of those folks surely have vast amounts of time spent adding soldiers.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: MaSonZ on August 11, 2011, 03:53:18 PM
DOS is only the start. Initiate a DOS and give them a bit of fixation so you can work elsewhere to gain access. It only takes one weak spot and then you get access to more weak spots. Little steps to own.

While FB surely has server power and load balancing, never think it can't be done. Some of those folks surely have vast amounts of time spent adding soldiers.
good input, never thought of it this way. makes sense. you dont attack an army head on, you weaken them before you attack  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: AAJagerX on August 11, 2011, 04:01:56 PM
:rofl :rofl

lucky my mom hasnt done that.

My mom joined, and added me.  After a week or so, I decided that it was too weird, so I deleted her.   :devil

It's become a running joke between us now. 

Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Shuffler on August 11, 2011, 04:21:45 PM
good input, never thought of it this way. makes sense. you dont attack an army head on, you weaken them before you attack  :rolleyes:

Diversionary Tactics...... been around since the first two people threw rocks at eachother. :D
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Melvin on August 11, 2011, 04:39:47 PM
Could you imagine the sharp rise in productivity America alone would see if Facebook were destroyed?

I certainly hope these Anon cats can bring that beyotch down. Screw Facebook.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: F22RaptorDude on August 11, 2011, 05:16:02 PM
Diversionary Tactics...... been around since the first two people threw rocks at eachother. :D
so its like if the person has a rock, you don't throw it at their head you throw it at their balls to weaken them then take them down with brute force?  :rofl
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: F22RaptorDude on August 11, 2011, 05:18:30 PM
Could you imagine the sharp rise in productivity America alone would see if Facebook were destroyed?

I certainly hope these Anon cats can bring that beyotch down. Screw Facebook.
If that happens people will go Google+, i'm already signed up myself but it won't be up for a while.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Melvin on August 11, 2011, 05:45:03 PM
If that happens people will go Google+, i'm already signed up myself but it won't be up for a while.

 :bhead

Some folks will never get the point I guess.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Meatwad on August 11, 2011, 05:47:56 PM
Easiest solution is to not use social networking sites
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: IrishOne on August 11, 2011, 06:01:20 PM
I have a facebook.....and certainly don't care what "info" can be stolon......there is nothing there that can hurt me....if someone steals my identity...I might be better off :rofl :rofl

   this     :rofl  
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Skyguns MKII on August 11, 2011, 06:18:39 PM
Uh Mason, how do you know if anyone on Facebook is who they claim to be?

One of the new tools the rabid debt collectors use today, is to make Facebook accounts, using names of school friends of the target victim.  There are a number of agencies out there doing that today.

I went through long ago and deleted 70% of people i don't talk to. I have around 16 friends on facebook now and like it that way. If Little Johny is asking "where do you live?! i wanna crash that party!" When hes already been to your house 50 times and litterally lives next door. you know not to reply and call little Johny by phone...
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Beefcake on August 11, 2011, 06:22:57 PM
Whats Facebook?

I live in a cave, I don't do tweets, I don't facebook or myspace, I don't even own a cell phone.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Skyguns MKII on August 11, 2011, 06:26:18 PM
My mom joined, and added me.  After a week or so, I decided that it was too weird, so I deleted her.   :devil

It's become a running joke between us now. 



I blocked her  :D
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: F22RaptorDude on August 11, 2011, 06:35:48 PM
:bhead
 
Some folks will never get the point I guess.
hey I get notices and deals on social sites, I got 4 free tickets to six flags and 10 bucks off a purchase of a madfire Nitro car, I only have 5 friends anyway so its more of my gain and so forth  :devil
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: 2bighorn on August 11, 2011, 07:16:09 PM
(http://sierra-host.net/bb/social-media.jpg)
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: B-17 on August 11, 2011, 07:37:58 PM
:rof, I've seen that before... on this very same BBS, as it happens... :noid:
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: F22RaptorDude on August 11, 2011, 07:45:57 PM
Frankly I only get on fb once or twice a day now, for about 5 mins each time. You can do alot in 5 minutes  :banana:
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: B-17 on August 11, 2011, 07:47:22 PM
I'm not even on for that long. I type fast. My sister once spent 25 minutes...trying to figure out a status.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: skorpion on August 11, 2011, 07:50:32 PM
i dont have a facebook, as it is useless. but hacking facebook and shutting it down? HA! yeah, good luck with that then.  :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Jayhawk on August 11, 2011, 07:55:41 PM
i dont have a facebook, as it is useless. but hacking facebook and shutting it down? HA! yeah, good luck with that then.  :rofl :rofl

You know these are the people who hacked into the pentagon right?

Not sure what the big deal is, a temporary disruption of facebook is all this will be, at most.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: flight17 on August 11, 2011, 08:09:14 PM
thats my birthday... happy birthday to me... happy birthday to me... happy birthday dear flight17... happy birthday to me
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: ozrocker on August 11, 2011, 08:10:11 PM
I have a FB account. I never use apps, which is giving them permission to access
your account at any time. I have nothing on there that I'm worried about.
If there's nothing to hide, no worries :aok



                                                                                                                                  :cheers: Oz
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: B-17 on August 11, 2011, 08:10:12 PM
:devil I have an ifes...
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: F22RaptorDude on August 11, 2011, 08:16:43 PM
:devil I have an ifes...
Sounds painful  :P
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: B-17 on August 11, 2011, 08:29:38 PM
idead*
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: skorpion on August 11, 2011, 11:11:05 PM
You know these are the people who hacked into the pentagon right?

Not sure what the big deal is, a temporary disruption of facebook is all this will be, at most.
how could they completely destroy facebook? do you know how much work that would be?
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Jayhawk on August 12, 2011, 12:44:29 AM
how could they completely destroy facebook? do you know how much work that would be?

Define "destroy facebook".  I don't think anyone is saying they'll kill it forever, just prevent people from accessing it for a while.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: skorpion on August 12, 2011, 12:52:22 AM
Define "destroy facebook".  I don't think anyone is saying they'll kill it forever, just prevent people from accessing it for a while.
from what i read im sure i saw something about them saying "we will destroy facebook". and if there going to totally ruin facebook why only for a bit? wouldnt they shut it down for good?
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Jayhawk on August 12, 2011, 01:28:17 AM
from what i read im sure i saw something about them saying "we will destroy facebook". and if there going to totally ruin facebook why only for a bit? wouldnt they shut it down for good?

I don't see how that's even possible.  I read "we will destroy facebook" as we will shut it down for a while.  Like you were trash talking your buddy on a video game, saying I will destroy you doesn't literally mean you will destroy his existence.  I think they only intend to knock facebook off the internet for however long they can manage, until they get bored. 

Anonymous is a loosely constructed group of guys, some of them with extreme knowledge of computer systems, who go around causing havoc.  The thing with such an unofficial group is that others cling to the idea and identify with it, and try to make it there own.  That has already begun with this whole facebook thing.  So now there are people speaking on behalf of this group when not all of the members (unofficial though they may be) agree with it's methods.  Anonymous, as we know it today, will likely crumble soon, with many new hacker clubs sprouting up and getting their 15 minutes of fame.  Talent will divide and excitement will die down.  Soon enough, someone will be caught, and a high profile case will ensue.  They will go to jail and after a brief period of threats from these smaller groups, the hacker phase will die down.  It will never go away, it will be around as long as there is internet around, but how we see it today will.  Companies and governments will adapt, law enforcement will adapt, and the hackers will adapt, and the battle continues.

IMHO.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Shuffler on August 12, 2011, 08:20:47 AM
If you think only friends can access your info..... think again.

:D
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Jayhawk on August 12, 2011, 08:47:23 AM
If you think only friends can access your info..... think again.

:D

I don't think anyone here has said that.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: grizz441 on August 12, 2011, 08:49:15 AM
Shuffler loves facebook threads.   :lol
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Jayhawk on August 12, 2011, 09:15:26 AM
Shuffler loves facebook threads.   :lol

Yep, I'd say Shuff is addicted to facebook...


threads.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Shuffler on August 12, 2011, 09:19:04 AM
I see absolutely no use for those type sites.

It's popular for the same reasons as reality shows.

Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: grizz441 on August 12, 2011, 09:39:51 AM
I see absolutely no use for those type sites.

When I first joined back in 2004 there were not many people on it maybe like 250-ish from The University of Nebraska.  I used it as a secondary and convenient way to meet up with a few attractive females from my university who I otherwise would have had no way of meeting.  Just saying, I got immediate use out of it.   :D

Or say you just met someone through a friend.  Calling them might be "too much" assuming you even have their number whereas adding them on facebook and sending them a quick message might be the perfect amount. 

Or staying in touch with a Canadian friend that you played baseball with in the minor leagues.

Or just staying in touch with friends around the country that you can easily coordinate with if you ever make a trip somewhere.  It's also great to see what your friends are doing and to be able to stay connected in their lives by simply commenting on things they post.

Just a few uses that I get and have gotten out of it.  And it was all free.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: MaSonZ on August 12, 2011, 09:51:42 AM
When I first joined back in 2004 there were not many people on it maybe like 250-ish from The University of Nebraska.  I used it as a secondary and convenient way to meet up with a few attractive females from my university who I otherwise would have had no way of meeting.  Just saying, I got immediate use out of it.   :D

Or say you just met someone through a friend.  Calling them might be "too much" assuming you even have their number whereas adding them on facebook and sending them a quick message might be the perfect amount. 

Or staying in touch with a Canadian friend that you played baseball with in the minor leagues.

Or just staying in touch with friends around the country that you can easily coordinate with if you ever make a trip somewhere.  It's also great to see what your friends are doing and to be able to stay connected in their lives by simply commenting on things they post.

Just a few uses that I get and have gotten out of it.  And it was all free.
bold says it all for me. didnt have her number until after we started dating  :lol

in regards to the rest of this post, it is all very true.

on the other hand, there is a lot of drama that goes around on facebook. if your gonna talk smack say it to their face at the very least  :rock
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: IrishOne on August 12, 2011, 10:45:15 AM
facebook allowed me to see what my squaddies look like.

(http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af263/irishone920/Muppets.jpg)

Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Shuffler on August 12, 2011, 10:48:41 AM
I use email to keep in touch with friends. If I want to look someone up I use the interenet.

Old school buddies I contact school or friends.

Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: grizz441 on August 12, 2011, 11:25:54 AM
I use email to keep in touch with friends. If I want to look someone up I use the interenet.

Old school buddies I contact school or friends.



That's cool.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: jay on August 12, 2011, 11:42:32 AM
if they actually destroy facebook it would make me very happy,social networking is the bain of my generation
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Shamus on August 12, 2011, 12:09:33 PM
Uh Mason, how do you know if anyone on Facebook is who they claim to be?

One of the new tools the rabid debt collectors use today, is to make Facebook accounts, using names of school friends of the target victim.  There are a number of agencies out there doing that today.

I started doing this stuff back in Myspace days, also have classmate accounts all over the country. Never ceases to amaze me how otherwise intelligent people let their guard down on these sites.

shamus 
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: crazierthanu on August 12, 2011, 05:58:05 PM
Facebook is good for cordinating events without too much trouble.

Ad what Grizz mentioned.  :D
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: B-17 on August 12, 2011, 10:01:48 PM
social networking is the bain of my generation

You mean bane?
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: The Jekyll on August 13, 2011, 09:55:52 PM
Like anything else FB is what you make of it, or don't. I recall a story of those who thought automobiles were the bane of all evil....wait they may have been right.
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: B-17 on August 13, 2011, 11:39:31 PM
Like anything else FB is what you make of it, or don't. I recall a story of those who thought automobiles were the bane of all evil....wait they may have been right.


:aok
Title: Re: facebook watch out
Post by: Grayeagle on August 22, 2011, 06:14:23 PM
Well ..

Kim Smith and I useda cruise Speedway Blvd in my '69 Road Runner back when we were both noobs in the USAF fresh outta tech school ..we were in ECM, foolin around with the A7D Sluf's at Davis Montham back then, best friends an all.

I got orders to Thailand, lost track of him.

Got a note" 'Are you the Frank Williamson that useda shift that silver '69 Road Runner like lightnin I useda ride with on Speedway back in early '70's?' .. ROFL .. talk about a blast from the past :)

40 years ago .. sheesh.
Goin out to visit him for a few days in Sept .. coupla phone chats catchin up, it will be *great* to see him after all this time.

There have been others .. another guy I useda play in the mud with, tip over cows, sleds thru barbedwire fences an the like in Montana ..was 8th grade-Freshman high school stuff .. our family moved away. Very much lost track of him..
.. Danny sent me a note on FB one fine day .. LOL . turns out we were both gearheads after high school cept he was deep into Oldsmobubbles .. he still hangs out in Montana, never left. Next year mebbe a trip up there durin the hot months down here in Phx :)

Facebook *rocks* at times like this.

-Frank aka GE