Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: lilsquid on August 18, 2011, 05:45:57 AM
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So Fella's F86 vs Mig 15... I think a Korean War Arena Would be outstanding!!! I mean honestly Korea was the last "Dogfights" of the jet age now adays we have missles that kill the plane at 10 miles... (Might be an overstatement) These were the last of the greatest dogfights.... WE NEED A MIG ALLEY!!! Shall we start a poll? and kinda off subject in my mind a Vietnam Arena would not be good because you would be going to fast for dogfighting, and missles.... Please no skill we need to keep it conventional turnfighting!! Mig alley would fit right in and Frankly you would not get me out of a F-86 Sabre!!! :lol
(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i441/CYeager1/Letsgetitgoing.jpg)
Dont comment on the photo lol just advertising lol
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So Fella's F86 vs Mig 15... I think a Korean War Arena Would be outstanding!!! I mean honestly Korea was the last "Dogfights" of the jet age now adays we have missles that kill the plane at 10 miles... (Might be an overstatement) These were the last of the greatest dogfights.... WE NEED A MIG ALLEY!!! Shall we start a poll? and kinda off subject in my mind a Vietnam Arena would not be good because you would be going to fast for dogfighting, and missles.... Please no skill we need to keep it conventional turnfighting!! Mig alley would fit right in and Frankly you would not get me out of a F-86 Sabre!!! :lol
(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i441/CYeager1/Letsgetitgoing.jpg)
Dont comment on the photo lol just advertising lol :lol
Lets see what we can do HiTech :aok
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I remember the Korean war arena in air warrior on dial up. My problem then as it still is now, is my connection is spotty. If I can't hit Brewsters going 250, how the hell am I hitting a mig going 600. The other thing I recall was always being in a near state of blackout. Could be because I was still in my 20s and drank cheap beer. Not sure. Anyway, it could bring in some neat prop planes such as the sea fury, but in the end it might just end up being as popular as WWI.
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I dunno I think I'd be much more interested in a Korean War arena than WWI. We'd still have the Corsair, Mustang (and Twin-Mustang - how cool is that?) and added jets like the Mig-15, Sabre, F9F Panther for CV ops, F-84 Thunderjet and F-80 Shooting Star. The British I believe use the Gloster Meteor and the Hawker Sea Fury. The B-29 and and A-26 were also used.
Not sure what else was on the North Korean side though - La-9 maybe?
Helicopters for downed pilot pickup might be cool.
I think WWI arena proved you need to have more than just a handful of planes that can dogfight only though. To make the arena interesting you gotta have different mission types - strategic bombing, interdiction, interception, ground support, etc.
With such a limited staff though I'd prefer HTC continue to update graphics on its older models and introduce more Japanese fighters, and continue to improve strategy aspects of gameplay.
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How many places are you going to post this? Do a search. This has been hashed out many times. Basically your asking for a new wwi arena. Have you been in there lately? Pretty quite ain't it.
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your quite right sir......it is very quiet in there. ;)
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Except for the crickets.... they are so loud in WW1 you can hear them all the way into EW... which is also quiet.
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Well it couldnt draw worse then WW-1 does.
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I don't think it would be quiet if AH went all out and added a good majority of Korean War Fighters, bombers, tanks ect..
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the gulf war had dogfighting...what the hell are you talking about?
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You can always host a custom arena and sub 262s for both sides, the korea terrain exists. If it becomes so popular it spawns more then one arena, then you'll have some backup for your plane wish, but I'd be surprised if you can fill a single custom arena.
Just saying.
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+1 :salute
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rinse wash repeat... how many times have we been over this?
the developers already have the f86 sabre modelled and the mig too i think...saw that with the pictures with shark and claws... anyone care to share the link with them? so the developers already know about this.. its after all dependent on them...
good to remind them.. :salute
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the gulf war had dogfighting...what the hell are you talking about?
firing guided munitions at other aircraft isn't exactly dogfighting, but it is easier.
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the gulf war had dogfighting...what the hell are you talking about?
It depends on the ROE whether you need visual confirmation of bogey. Big difference between firing an AMRAAM at a radar dot 20 miles away, and firing cannons in a knife fight. Radar, ID, and missle improvements pretty much slid engagements more toward the BVR-type rather than true close-in dogfights that happened in WWII.
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Were there guided weapons in the Korean war?
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Were there guided weapons in the Korean war?
it would take a bit of research to be exact but i believe the first gen sidewinder heat seeking missles were deployed in 1957/58(?). short range radar detecting missles were deployed some time in 1955/56.
in short, no. they were still dog fighting with machine guns and cannons in korea.
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firing guided munitions at other aircraft isn't exactly dogfighting, but it is easier.
theres still manuvering you have to do. thats considered dogfighting. theres weapons you have to get into range with. thats considered dogfighting.
the main point of dogfighting is to outmanuver your enemy, get into killing range and actually kill them.
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it would take a bit of research to be exact but i believe the first gen sidewinder heat seeking missles were deployed in 1957/58(?). short range radar detecting missles were deployed some time in 1955/56.
in short, no. they were still dog fighting with machine guns and cannons in korea.
gyrene81 you are right as i rember watching a progamm on the sidwinders development and history. In the last 10 months of the Korean war they where used in its combat test period. And its also how the Russions got their Version of the sidewinder when one failed to explode in a Mig15s tail fin or was it tail pipe anyway the mig pilot managed to return to base with it sticking out of his mig and the ruskies said we'll have it to reverse engineer it :)
But all through the war it was manly radar controlled Ack Ack ULP nasty stuff that. :O
But a Korean war theartre would make me signup again in a flash as the last good Korean war game i played was Mig Alley from Rowan i think it was :headscratch:
BulletVI
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+1 for AMRAAM's!! :rock +1 for F86 and MiG15! :rock +0 cuz we already got the terrain! :)
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theres still manuvering you have to do. thats considered dogfighting. theres weapons you have to get into range with. thats considered dogfighting.
the main point of dogfighting is to outmanuver your enemy, get into killing range and actually kill them.
i think you watched independence day too many times. you know what the term "weapons lock" means? as sophisticated as modern aam's are, you don't even have to be in visual range to fire a missile at another aircraft as long as your onboard radar can track it.
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Methinks you vastly overestimate the capabilities of radar guided weapons and their ease of use. The fire and
forget system is fairly recent. Semi Active Radar Homing meant you had to continually track the bad guy <while flying
towards him of course> and hope the missile functioned correctly.
Early missiles of all types were fairly crude and failed often. Plus radar didn't function well in a look down mode....
down low where alot of AH action happens. They didn't call the AIM-7 Sparrow the Great White Hope for nothing in
Vietnam :D I've read accounts where pilots fired 3 $120K Sparrows to get the target to turn so he could use a $39K
Sidewinder to get the kill.
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Methinks you vastly overestimate the capabilities of radar guided weapons and their ease of use. The fire and
forget system is fairly recent. Semi Active Radar Homing meant you had to continually track the bad guy <while flying
towards him of course> and hope the missile functioned correctly.
Early missiles of all types were fairly crude and failed often. Plus radar didn't function well in a look down mode....
down low where alot of AH action happens. They didn't call the AIM-7 Sparrow the Great White Hope for nothing in
Vietnam :D I've read accounts where pilots fired 3 $120K Sparrows to get the target to turn so he could use a $39K
Sidewinder to get the kill.
uh bino, talking recent decade here, not nam.
the gulf war had dogfighting...what the hell are you talking about?
i don't believe i'm overestimating anything. radar guided missiles in the 60s and 70s were "short range" missiles and were shown to be ineffective against fast moving aerial targets. you definately had to be within "visual range" to even fire the things and i think a microwave burst could send it off track. heat seekers had shorter targeting ranges, even after infrared was added but within operational limits, very effective. within the last 20 years or so, aim's have gotten a lot more sophisticated and multi-purpose, to the point of being useful against certain types of ground targets if the need arises.
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uh bino, talking recent decade here, not nam.
i don't believe i'm overestimating anything. radar guided missiles in the 60s and 70s were "short range" missiles and were shown to be ineffective against fast moving aerial targets. you definately had to be within "visual range" to even fire the things and i think a microwave burst could send it off track. heat seekers had shorter targeting ranges, even after infrared was added but within operational limits, very effective. within the last 20 years or so, aim's have gotten a lot more sophisticated and multi-purpose, to the point of being useful against certain types of ground targets if the need arises.
so just because the missles have a longer range, means that there are no more close quater fighting with planes? pssh, that'll be the day.
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I'd love to have Korean War aircraft. But in the grand scheme of AH it ranks somewhere adding the Meteor and adding submarines. HT's top priority should be updating existing aircraft and vehicles.
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HT's top priority should be updating existing aircraft and vehicles.
I wonder what they are working on, not what they should be working on... :noid :uhoh
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uh bino, talking recent decade here, not nam.
i don't believe i'm overestimating anything. radar guided missiles in the 60s and 70s were "short range" missiles and were shown to be ineffective against fast moving aerial targets. you definately had to be within "visual range" to even fire the things and i think a microwave burst could send it off track. heat seekers had shorter targeting ranges, even after infrared was added but within operational limits, very effective. within the last 20 years or so, aim's have gotten a lot more sophisticated and multi-purpose, to the point of being useful against certain types of ground targets if the need arises.
Sparrows were BVR and the AN/APQ-120 in the F-4Es I maintained could auto-magically track a target to 50 miles.
Closing velocity had to be less than 2700 mph <not all that difficult :D> The missiles worked best in the mid-range
as it would have time to react to course changes and yet still had plenty of power and hydraulics.
In fact, the ideal AIM-7 solution wasn't a "hit" at all. The missile was designed to pass close to the target before
exploding, giving the shrapnel time to speed up before impacting the target.
Planar array antenna, electronic beam steering and active terminal missile guidance are indeed recent developments,
and these still do not provide an automatic wish-em-dead solution.
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Frrankly, I don't think the community has the numbers to support it. WWI is a good example of this.
Its also a matter of reasources - I would rather see more ww2 planes added then a whole new set of them for an arena that would be disussed (even if it would be cool for a bit).
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I would prefer they added more ww2 planes, more maps, and more things to make the game interesting, in order to attract more players
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it would take a bit of research to be exact but i believe the first gen sidewinder heat seeking missles were deployed in 1957/58(?). short range radar detecting missles were deployed some time in 1955/56.
in short, no. they were still dog fighting with machine guns and cannons in korea.
Whats wrong? Wikipedia down? Maybe you can recomend a book instead.
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they tried a korean war room in FA and it failed miserably
stick to the game we have
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they tried a korean war room in FA and it failed miserably
stick to the game we have
They "AH" tried a WW1 game and its failed miserably. And you shold have heard the chorus of "WTGs" when they proposed it. The cupeth runneth over full of "purists" who said they would love such an arena. Mobs of Sopwiths were expected to take flight and I was the only doomsayer that said "dont do it". I mean a blindman could see back then that if you cant get these knuckleheads out of their LA-7s, 51Ds, Spixteens, run-90s, into lesser planes or MW/EW arenas then why would you expect them to flock to 1916 when it took 10 mins to get to 10,000'?
So AH builds a very nice arena and nobody ever went into it. Some of the puritans say they wanted a inclusive, all around, WW1 type game like WW2 AH is, "funny but nobody asked for that before them game was launched tho they said they did now". But how inclusive can you make WW1? It was all infantry, paper and wood airplanes, and horses. Even ROF, a far buggier game, isnt all that inclusive. You take off and shoot down the other guy. AH WW1 is a far more stable write then ROF is and still I often see the DA with 25 and WW1 with 0.
A good effort wasted. And why invest more into it when the player base let you down already? I hope they just stick with their bread and butter. WW2 made AH and it was the most dynamic air war in history. Why change a winning formula?
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Whats wrong? Wikipedia down? Maybe you can recomend a book instead.
keep digging sweetheart. your zero batting average will improve sooner or later.
They "AH" tried a WW1 game and its failed miserably. And you shold have heard the chorus of "WTGs" when they proposed it. The cupeth runneth over full of "purists" who said they would love such an arena. Mobs of Sopwiths were expected to take flight and I was the only doomsayer that said "dont do it". I mean a blindman could see back then that if you cant get these knuckleheads out of their LA-7s, 51Ds, Spixteens, run-90s, into lesser planes or MW/EW arenas then why would you expect them to flock to 1916 when it took 10 mins to get to 10,000'?
So AH builds a very nice arena and nobody ever went into it. Some of the puritans say they wanted a inclusive, all around, WW1 type game like WW2 AH is, "funny but nobody asked for that before them game was launched tho they said they did now". But how inclusive can you make WW1? It was all infantry, paper and wood airplanes, and horses. Even ROF, a far buggier game, isnt all that inclusive. You take off and shoot down the other guy. AH WW1 is a far more stable write then ROF is and still I often see the DA with 25 and WW1 with 0.
A good effort wasted. And why invest more into it when the player base let you down already? I hope they just stick with their bread and butter. WW2 made AH and it was the most dynamic air war in history. Why change a winning formula?
wrong on many levels. the supposed failure of the ww1 arena is that it lacks the elements which make the lw arena popular. high number of aircraft choices, multi dimensional war elements including ground vehicles, multiple bases for each side to attack and defend. people were "expecting" htc to include those elements from the beginning but the only thing they got was dogfighting and with the choices of planes that exists, and the novelty wore off quickly. you obviously were not around when the ww1 arena was opened or your story would be more correct than it is.
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I really enjoyed a Korean based scenario event we had in Airwarrior. It was full realism (based on the AW model) and it is something I won't forget. I came home from a trip early just so I wouldn't miss a frame. Otherwise, the Korean based arena was dead and is similar to the numbers we have in WWI now. Would it be nice? Absolutely, but not worth the time coding imho.
Imho we need the strategic war to be fleshed out first, it would make many happy and increase overall playability in Aces High.
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If someone really wants to feel what a Korean War arena would be like, just get a dozen or so Me262's buzzing around, throw in a mix a few P51D's, F4u-4's, La7's, and maybe a couple of Tempests for the fun of it.
It wouldnt be much different than that.
Again... I vote no. HTC has too many things to add and to improve on in the WWII venue for them to branch out just yet, imo. :)
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keep digging sweetheart. your zero batting average will improve sooner or later.
wrong on many levels. the supposed failure of the ww1 arena is that it lacks the elements which make the lw arena popular. high number of aircraft choices, multi dimensional war elements including ground vehicles, multiple bases for each side to attack and defend. people were "expecting" htc to include those elements from the beginning but the only thing they got was dogfighting and with the choices of planes that exists, and the novelty wore off quickly. you obviously were not around when the ww1 arena was opened or your story would be more correct than it is.
Obviously I was around. Or I wouldnt be saying what everyone else was posting. And WTF kinda WW-1 ground vehicles would make a WW1 arena more interesting ? :huh
But like I said, the former poseurs of the "pure flight experience" now babble about "the lack of a multidimensional war experience". And continued goose eggs in the arena cant be very motivating for the games decision makers to model more airplanes for it.
Do you got one of those high and tights ? C'mere and let me give you a great big noogie.
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Obviously I was around. Or I wouldnt be saying what everyone else was posting. And WTF kinda WW-1 ground vehicles would make a WW1 arena more interesting ? :huh
But like I said, the former poseurs of the "pure flight experience" now babble about "the lack of a multidimensional war experience". And continued goose eggs in the arena cant be very motivating for the games decision makers to model more airplanes for it.
Do you got one of those high and tights ? C'mere and let me give you a great big noogie.
words like "poseurs" and "purists" makes me believe you weren't paying attention when the ww1 arena was opened and the reasons for its decline. one need only look at the plane set and the fact that there are 2 aircraft that dominate to see why people have gotten bored with it. had variants of spad, albatros, nieuport, handley paige, etc... been introduced from the outset or at least soon thereafter the resulting lack of population would not have occurred so quickly. and yes, even the afficionados of dogfighting eventually want more to do, hence the need for more bases, tanks (crude as they were), troop trucks, maybe even mannable artillery and useable supply carts complete with mules. every element that brings people to the ww2 late war arena could very well get a dedicated population into the ww1 arena. what is killing the arena is boredom associated with just 2 airplanes that dominate the skies and no war to fight.
yes i do keep my hair cut in a high and tight, though not as stringently as i used to.
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I absolutely love the Korean War Era aircraft, and dream of the day that HTC creates a Korean arena. I mean, there are certainly quite a few aircraft that can be introduced, and like many of the aircraft in WWII, there were variations of each type as the war raged on. I mean c'mon, who would'nt love running down a MiG-15 or even an La-7 in F-86H (the model that introduced the 4 20mm cannon as opposed to the 6 .50's :rock :x :cheers:
Plus, don't forget the bombers!!! I mean, since we've already added the B-29 to the arenas, there's one easy transfer. Plus, maybe the advent of a Korean arena could bring the A-26 in on some WWII action.... duel war aircraft?? ALLLLL ABOUT THAT :rock :x :salute
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I absolutely love the Korean War Era aircraft, and dream of the day that HTC creates a Korean arena. I mean, there are certainly quite a few aircraft that can be introduced, and like many of the aircraft in WWII, there were variations of each type as the war raged on. I mean c'mon, who would'nt love running down a MiG-15 or even an La-7 in F-86H (the model that introduced the 4 20mm cannon as opposed to the 6 .50's :rock :x :cheers:
Plus, don't forget the bombers!!! I mean, since we've already added the B-29 to the arenas, there's one easy transfer. Plus, maybe the advent of a Korean arena could bring the A-26 in on some WWII action.... duel war aircraft?? ALLLLL ABOUT THAT :rock :x :salute
p51, p47, b29 ect... were all used in the korean war i believe. but running over a mig-15 with a p51? long shot but possible!