Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: ink on August 23, 2011, 10:54:44 AM
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well I am getting very close to being done with this one...looking for some feedback.....I found a few different "versions" of this particular plane, some sources say the mouth inside was blue...not black, others say black..... :headscratch:
I still have a bit left to do, but I am not sure about the color :headscratch: the prop spinner he would change the color to confuse the enemy into thinking there were more then one :rofl
as you can see there is zero weathering as of yet, that is the very last thing I do.
any and all comments/criticism is appreciated :aok
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p40painted_belly.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p40painted_belly_2.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p40painted.jpg)
and a action shot for fun :D
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p40painted_belly_3.jpg)
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:O INK you are truly an artist :aok
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That's bloody beautiful. :aok Amazed me once again. i catually thought the first one was a real picture... until I saw the background :lol
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Very nice Ink.
You might want to try making the white graphics less intense. The teeth and tail number really pop and look fake.
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A couple of remarks:
1. When taking the screen shots, adjust the sun or your maneuvers so that the sun is directly behind the camera. This will light up the plane and expose the detail and true colors without shading interfering.
2. Agreed on the white numbers, and on the sharks mouth in particular. Need to make those all a bit more muted. I also think the saturation of the OD and the gray underneath is too high.
3. Even though its not lit directly, I can already tell the underside of the plane is too heavily shaded. Back that off a bit, and add weathering/soot/grease to get the effect you're going for there...
4. The AVG art looks really nice.
5. Is the gray underneath the right color? Looks somewhat blue to me.
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:aok
Hey, dont you wanna skin 109s? :devil
Just kidding. Very nice skin.
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It's looking good, but a few things though.
The first thing I noticed was the star on the underside is on the wrong wing. Apart from some unique circumstances, on USAAF planes the underside star is on the right wing, and the topside star is on the left wing.
I think your Olive Drab paint is a bit dark. Here's a photo - this is a stateside trainer and has probably seen a lot of sun, so I'd say it's probably lighter than what you're skinning. Maybe some middle ground between this and yours would be best.
Also notice how the exhaust staining is a light color. Again this is probably an extreme example of exhaust staining, but it's a clear example of how the stain flows and how the color would look in time. Most people skin all exhaust staining black. Most planes will have it black but not all.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Weathering.jpg)
Here's some photos of this plane that you've probably seen already. I agree the sharksmouth looks black, but I think the spinner looks to be painted Olive Drab. All the profiles I have show it as OD too.
Also a small detail is you can get rid of the triangular recessed area behind the exhaust stacks. This particular plane is a P-40K, and very few Ks had that - this one's no exception.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Pagescott1.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Pagesc1.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Pvvvage1.jpg)
The trick to skinning nice looking pure black and white paint is to not use pure black or white. Use a very dark grey for black, and a very light gray for white. In photos above you can see the shadow cast by the props is darker than the black on the sharksmouth. They may have used black paint in real life, but it doesn't look like a black hole and neither should yours. :P
Don't forget to skin a silk scarf on Scott. :D
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My main criticism is you have simply added colors to the bare metal shading shadows and details from your previous thread. Painted surfaces don't look the same as your bare metal surfaces would, and all of the shadows work does not apply.
You need to remove all the dark shadows for a painted surface, as there is no curved reflective surface causing them in the first place.
I also find your color choices very dark. While there is plenty of leeway in different shades of olive drab, I find your undersides, your red spinner, the artwork on the side... all "off". They seem too dark and overly saturated, but I'm not sure if that's the real problem (I am just attempting to describe what I am thinking).
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thank ya guys :salute
very much appreciate the feedback
My main criticism is you have simply added colors to the bare metal shading shadows and details from your previous thread. Painted surfaces don't look the same as your bare metal surfaces would, and all of the shadows work does not apply.
You need to remove all the dark shadows for a painted surface, as there is no curved reflective surface causing them in the first place.
I also find your color choices very dark. While there is plenty of leeway in different shades of olive drab, I find your undersides, your red spinner, the artwork on the side... all "off". They seem too dark and overly saturated, but I'm not sure if that's the real problem (I am just attempting to describe what I am thinking).
no I did not just add colors over the metal layer...I painted each part of the plane on the "paint" layer, and when I combined the paint layer with the metal layer, (this is where the heavy shadows come from...)I use "multiply" which brings out the layer underneath...which is also where the paint gets much darker, if I use "normal" and then adjust the opacity of the paint layer it seems very faded.....maybe that would work out better for this.... thanx for input
It's looking good, but a few things though.
The first thing I noticed was the star on the underside is on the wrong wing. Apart from some unique circumstances, on USAAF planes the underside star is on the right wing, and the topside star is on the left wing.
I think your Olive Drab paint is a bit dark. Here's a photo - this is a stateside trainer and has probably seen a lot of sun, so I'd say it's probably lighter than what you're skinning. Maybe some middle ground between this and yours would be best.
Also notice how the exhaust staining is a light color. Again this is probably an extreme example of exhaust staining, but it's a clear example of how the stain flows and how the color would look in time. Most people skin all exhaust staining black. Most planes will have it black but not all.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Weathering.jpg)
Here's some photos of this plane that you've probably seen already. I agree the sharksmouth looks black, but I think the spinner looks to be painted Olive Drab. All the profiles I have show it as OD too.
Also a small detail is you can get rid of the triangular recessed area behind the exhaust stacks. This particular plane is a P-40K, and very few Ks had that - this one's no exception.
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Pagescott1.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Pagesc1.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/Pvvvage1.jpg)
The trick to skinning nice looking pure black and white paint is to not use pure black or white. Use a very dark grey for black, and a very light gray for white. In photos above you can see the shadow cast by the props is darker than the black on the sharksmouth. They may have used black paint in real life, but it doesn't look like a black hole and neither should yours. :P
Don't forget to skin a silk scarf on Scott. :D
that's funny, I saw a model plane done in this paint scheme, the stars where on the same wing...but in the photo you show you can see the star on the underside of the opposite wing....I even have that photo but missed the star there.
COl Scott would paint his spinner different colors....I just choose red.
thanx for the tips :aok
:aok
Hey, dont you wanna skin 109s? :devil
Just kidding. Very nice skin.
certainly gonna do some 109's :rock
and thank ya :salute
A couple of remarks:
1. When taking the screen shots, adjust the sun or your maneuvers so that the sun is directly behind the camera. This will light up the plane and expose the detail and true colors without shading interfering.
2. Agreed on the white numbers, and on the sharks mouth in particular. Need to make those all a bit more muted. I also think the saturation of the OD and the gray underneath is too high.
3. Even though its not lit directly, I can already tell the underside of the plane is too heavily shaded. Back that off a bit, and add weathering/soot/grease to get the effect you're going for there...
4. The AVG art looks really nice.
5. Is the gray underneath the right color? Looks somewhat blue to me.
cool beans, good idea on takin screenies..... :salute thanx for tips
the underside is just the shadows and the Blue paint as of yet no dirt or anything yet, I guess its way to dark....... :o
Very nice Ink.
You might want to try making the white graphics less intense. The teeth and tail number really pop and look fake.
gonna do exactly that thanx :salute
That's bloody beautiful. :aok Amazed me once again. i catually thought the first one was a real picture... until I saw the background :lol
thank you very much :salute
:O INK you are truly an artist :aok
last but far from least...thank ya my Muppet brother :salute
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Great P-40 skin INK, looks amazing! :aok :salute
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Thank ya Ace :salute
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Just can't beat living colour.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/12.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/olderandrt.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag10.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag11.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag12.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag13.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag2.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag3.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag4.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag5.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag6.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag7.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag8.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag9.jpg)
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I do like the underside, although the rivets still seem overdone to me- its very heavy looking but I think that is going to be ink's style.
Ink when you are making your screenshots, you gotta do something to make it a correct field of view. The first pic is the only one that looks right, all the others stretch the plane and distort it. Play around with the zoom key or something to get it to look right. I actually don't know how I do it but I think it related to using the zoom key.
Agree with others on starkness of white and artwork. And is it missing a tail code / serial number? usually US planes had a portion of the serial number stenciled on both sides of tail.
Something I'm working on in painted skins is showing some rivets as light - to show where paint has flaked off rivet head.
Bravo on the skin though!
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Ink when you are making your screenshots, you gotta do something to make it a correct field of view. The first pic is the only one that looks right, all the others stretch the plane and distort it. Play around with the zoom key or something to get it to look right. I actually don't know how I do it but I think it related to using the zoom key.
Its very simple actually. Just hit the "Z" key, then adjust the distance from the subject.
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I do like the underside, although the rivets still seem overdone to me- its very heavy looking but I think that is going to be ink's style.
Ink when you are making your screenshots, you gotta do something to make it a correct field of view. The first pic is the only one that looks right, all the others stretch the plane and distort it. Play around with the zoom key or something to get it to look right. I actually don't know how I do it but I think it related to using the zoom key.
Agree with others on starkness of white and artwork. And is it missing a tail code / serial number? usually US planes had a portion of the serial number stenciled on both sides of tail.
Something I'm working on in painted skins is showing some rivets as light - to show where paint has flaked off rivet head.
Bravo on the skin though!
Scott did not have any codes or serial numbers on this plane, also it was not cammo.
Ill work on the SS try to get them better, I think its the angles im taking the SS at :headscratch:
I haven't done any weathering yet...making the rivet's peel paint is easy..... once I have the paint and nose art all down, I will go and do the weathering, I will place the "metal" layer under the "Paint" layer and erase the paint revealing the metal underneath...you could select a bunch of rivets and erase them also, thus revealing the under metal layer...
I will work on getting the rivets and panel lines not quite so prominent.
thanx :salute
Just can't beat living colour.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/12.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/olderandrt.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag1.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag10.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag11.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag12.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag13.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag2.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag3.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag4.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag5.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag6.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag7.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag8.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40avag9.jpg)
damn you got all the nice pics :salute
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ok re-worked it a bit....changed up the whites and blacks to be less bold.....tried to dull down the rivets and panel lines...I have not changed the bottom star, gonna do that later, also I noticed the top star is in the wrong position....gonna fix that..... really just trying to get the color down and get the rivets and panel lines good.
what say ye?
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p40_toned_down_2.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p40_toned_down_1.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p40_toned_down.jpg)
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Thats awesome Ink. :O :x
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Thats awesome Ink. :O :x
thanx man :salute
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My comment about adding color to the bare metal template was only because of the opposite-corners black and white overlay on every square of panel lines, if you see what I mean. I noticed them on your bare metal template and here they are also on the painted one.
This effect is not meant for all situations. it is specific to bare metal. Bare metal acts as a mirror and reflects not only the sky but due to the curved nature it can show other shades as well. This doesn't have to be mirror-polish metal, but even dull and worn metal has a bit of a sheen to it. It can and does even reflect the ground based on the curve of the metal sheets. In fact, it often shows a large range of shades and colors. The problem is this reflection is dynamic. AH doesn't do this kind of reflection mapping. Instead we "bake it on" in 3D animation terms, and that means we fake the result with 2D bitmapping. This is why you add that black and white opposite-corners effect. It makes the viewer think the surface is reflecting more of the world around it.
However...
This is only true of the bare metal mirror-like reaction to the world around it. For painted materials you will not find such an effect and it is out of place. By adding light and shadow to painted surfaces now you have changed it to make it look like they are bulging out at every panel line like balloons. This has an undesirable effect on the finished product. It's fine to keep it for a BMF P-40 down the road, but I think you need to ditch it (the effect) for this skin.
EDIT: Keep in mind there are other effects you can use with painted surfaces. Different effects show wear, show sand blasting, show sun baking, etc. You have to tailor the effects to the aircraft you are re-creating. You need to have an eye for the historic condition of the aircraft itself.
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Keep it up ink you've got to be a natural with colors or something cause even your fist skin was awesome. :salute
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Ink, I think that looks much better overall. I think the gray should be a tad darker if its a standard Gray/OD scheme, and maybe add a shade more saturation back to the OD. Its trending towards a bit too washed out. Could be at this point I'm arguing monitor differences though.
Generally speaking though, that's a huge improvement. The rivets and panel lines look good. Looking forward to the finished product.
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Ink, I think that looks much better overall. I think the gray should be a tad darker if its a standard Gray/OD scheme, and maybe add a shade more saturation back to the OD. Its trending towards a bit too washed out. Could be at this point I'm arguing monitor differences though.
Generally speaking though, that's a huge improvement. The rivets and panel lines look good. Looking forward to the finished product.
haha Thank ya man....I laugh because I wanted to do exactly what you describe....thank ya :salute
Keep it up ink you've got to be a natural with colors or something cause even your fist skin was awesome. :salute
Thanx man
My comment about adding color to the bare metal template was only because of the opposite-corners black and white overlay on every square of panel lines, if you see what I mean. I noticed them on your bare metal template and here they are also on the painted one.
This effect is not meant for all situations. it is specific to bare metal. Bare metal acts as a mirror and reflects not only the sky but due to the curved nature it can show other shades as well. This doesn't have to be mirror-polish metal, but even dull and worn metal has a bit of a sheen to it. It can and does even reflect the ground based on the curve of the metal sheets. In fact, it often shows a large range of shades and colors. The problem is this reflection is dynamic. AH doesn't do this kind of reflection mapping. Instead we "bake it on" in 3D animation terms, and that means we fake the result with 2D bitmapping. This is why you add that black and white opposite-corners effect. It makes the viewer think the surface is reflecting more of the world around it.
However...
This is only true of the bare metal mirror-like reaction to the world around it. For painted materials you will not find such an effect and it is out of place. By adding light and shadow to painted surfaces now you have changed it to make it look like they are bulging out at every panel line like balloons. This has an undesirable effect on the finished product. It's fine to keep it for a BMF P-40 down the road, but I think you need to ditch it (the effect) for this skin.
EDIT: Keep in mind there are other effects you can use with painted surfaces. Different effects show wear, show sand blasting, show sun baking, etc. You have to tailor the effects to the aircraft you are re-creating. You need to have an eye for the historic condition of the aircraft itself.
thanx for input :salute
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Your quality of skinning has improved dramatically for such a short time. Keep up the good work. :salute
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Your quality of skinning has improved dramatically for such a short time. Keep up the good work. :salute
thanx man :salute
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looks amazing ink, great work.
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thank ya scorp :salute
appreciate it
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:aok :D
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Might just be the computer I'm using right now but I don't see a whole lot of wear going on on the painted portion of the plane. Try adding some to the areas the crew would walk on to service the plane, around the service hatches and along the leating edge of the control surfaces (make this wear very subtle).
You could also add some burn residu to the area just behind the guns. I don't see any right now.
Those are the 2 things I can add, but it is a nice looking skin.
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Might just be the computer I'm using right now but I don't see a whole lot of wear going on on the painted portion of the plane. Try adding some to the areas the crew would walk on to service the plane, around the service hatches and along the leating edge of the control surfaces (make this wear very subtle).
You could also add some burn residu to the area just behind the guns. I don't see any right now.
Those are the 2 things I can add, but it is a nice looking skin.
:D
good eye...haven't done any of that yet still working on just trying to get the color right :neener:
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:aok
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ty Motley :salute
got a lot done on her, very few things left to do....pretty happy with the results, still think the color needs tweaking :headscratch:
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/P40-almost_done_7.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/P40-almost_done_6.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/P40-almost_done_5_8.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/P40-almost_done_4.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/P40-almost_done_2.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/P40-almost_done_3.jpg)
in this pic you can see some clipping on the gear doors....
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/P40-almost_done_1.jpg)
up close there is much less clipping going on :old:
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/P40-almost_done.jpg)
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:O looks great ink!!
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You have any picture's of Scott's airplane showing that much wear and tear?
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(disclaimer: before I get assaulted for giving a full blown art critique, I don't ussually take the trouble to do so but ink is already a proven tatoo artist and a squaddie and he asked me to :joystick: )
I have stopped using a black rivet layer on flush rivets btw if your using that old tutorial as a model. I use only a low opacity/fill white rivet layer and manual rivet deformation shading around them with a black and white layer.
panel line and rivet subtlety improved.
to get more realistic olive drab try desaturating it to greyish green/brown and tweak it with more color after looking at old color photos if your interested in the saving private ryan look.
remove the paint chip layer and do it over and do it from photo references only very subtley. also always lineup your textures weathering/chipping too. your wings do not match the fuselage wing root on its coresponding texture.
experiment with very faint earth tones and a hint of grime (faint! dont overdo it) and exhaust around and behind the engine. p40s are dirty skanks.
try to recreate what you see in photographs if you are interested in a photorealistic look.
the one thing you can do to get more photorealism is precision and detail. take your time on every tiny piece of the texturemapping and pack in as much refined detail as possible while using photo references as a guide.
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The shark mouth, artwork and number 7 all look nicely done - if the paint was new. With all that wear, they still look too good. The olive looks a little brown to me. Your work is quite good but the wear is overkill at the wing edges and roots, IMO. The underside looks awesome. :aok
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Agree the paint wear is too much, and attention must be paid to matching areas between wing root/fuselage, under rear under fuselage vs rear underwing, but man it looks too me like he could do a clinic on paint chipping/wear over bare metal.
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Ink, is that the right shade of gray underneath? Its starting to look blue again. Did they use a bluish-gray on these paintjobs?
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Ink your last 2 skins have been purely fantasy in regards to the end product. I think you will find the skin making community enjoys and promotes an eye towards the historically accurate representations of real aircraft, not just taking real markings that existed then making them look however you like.
My advice is to reign in your imagination. Look up some real examples of real planes. Don't just paint what you like on them. Try to replicate the real things.
That's all I'm going to say on it lest I get roasted like another thread.
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:O looks great ink!!
thanx bud :salute
You have any picture's of Scott's airplane showing that much wear and tear?
nope, but it don't matter, the guy was out there fighting every day, I am doing his plane right before his bosses said " scott time to get that plane painted don't ya think"
in other words I am not trying to "duplicate" a certain pic of his plane, but A "time" in its life.
(disclaimer: before I get assaulted for giving a full blown art critique, I don't ussually take the trouble to do so but ink is already a proven tatoo artist and a squaddie and he asked me to :joystick: )
I have stopped using a black rivet layer on flush rivets btw if your using that old tutorial as a model. I use only a low opacity/fill white rivet layer and manual rivet deformation shading around them with a black and white layer.
panel line and rivet subtlety improved.
to get more realistic olive drab try desaturating it to greyish green/brown and tweak it with more color after looking at old color photos if your interested in the saving private ryan look.
remove the paint chip layer and do it over and do it from photo references only very subtley. also always lineup your textures weathering/chipping too. your wings do not match the fuselage wing root on its coresponding texture.
experiment with very faint earth tones and a hint of grime (faint! dont overdo it) and exhaust around and behind the engine. p40s are dirty skanks.
try to recreate what you see in photographs if you are interested in a photorealistic look.
the one thing you can do to get more photorealism is precision and detail. take your time on every tiny piece of the texturemapping and pack in as much refined detail as possible while using photo references as a guide.
definitely not using that old rivet way, I create the rivet layer using 5 layers...they consist of ....a shadow...a highlight....an a white offset shadow, a black shadow offset, and the rivet layer itself.
ya that's one of the things I noticed, I need to get the wing roots evened out. shoulda caught that right away....you'll have to excuse me I was up for 3 days straight :old:
:D
I am not looking to re create a particular pic of this plane, but more of an attitude or time in its life...
I like the earth tones for dirt and grime, haven't tried or even thought of that, I just used black a bit and burned in some dark areas to simulate dirt.
thanx a bunch for the tips and feedback :salute
The shark mouth, artwork and number 7 all look nicely done - if the paint was new. With all that wear, they still look too good. The olive looks a little brown to me. Your work is quite good but the wear is overkill at the wing edges and roots, IMO. The underside looks awesome. :aok
ya I haven't touched those yet for the were and tear :D
and thanx :salute
Agree the paint wear is too much, and attention must be paid to matching areas between wing root/fuselage, under rear under fuselage vs rear underwing, but man it looks too me like he could do a clinic on paint chipping/wear over bare metal.
I like the worn out battle hardened look...I cant escape it
and thank you :salute
Ink, is that the right shade of gray underneath? Its starting to look blue again. Did they use a bluish-gray on these paintjobs?
it should be grey....I left a very light tint of blue when I colorized the belly paint, for some "life" to the paint, it may still be a bit to bold.
Ink your last 2 skins have been purely fantasy in regards to the end product. I think you will find the skin making community enjoys and promotes an eye towards the historically accurate representations of real aircraft, not just taking real markings that existed then making them look however you like.
My advice is to reign in your imagination. Look up some real examples of real planes. Don't just paint what you like on them. Try to replicate the real things.
That's all I'm going to say on it lest I get roasted like another thread.
exactly what is not historically accurate?
because of the wear and tear :headscratch: does that not happen under usage? and just because there are no "pics" of it, it happened and to think otherwise is pure silliness.
I think you need to let go of that old thought that you need to make a skin EXACTLY like it is in a pic....obviously I am not talking about the nose art and markings.
but to say my two skins so far is all fantasy is an out right lie, they are both real planes, both skins are real.
trust me if I wanted to make a skin look EXACTLY like it is in a pic, I could do that, wouldn't be very hard. (or should I say would not be any more difficult then what I am doing now, it would be easier in fact)
but my imagination wont let me, I see a plane and I know it goes through some beatings and a rough life,(much like myself) there is no way a paint job is gonna stay pristine during a war absolutely NO WAY...so me being me, I do what I see as a "battle hardened" plane...plain and simple.
I told you when you sent me that PM about how I "only started skinning to cause a stir" that I am an ARTIST period, what the hell is so hard to understand about that....... :headscratch:
I am sorry you don't like the fact that I started skinning planes for this game, actually no....no... I am not sorry, something your gonna have to get used to.
if you cant subjectively and UNBIASED look at a skin and pick something that is obviously wrong with the "markings" "color" "historic accuracy" of said skin, then just put my bellybutton on ignore.
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Very nice, Ink. The worn paint effect looks fantastic.
But like the others I have to say it is way over done in this aircraft. I understand that you want that war torn look, but allied aircraft don't wear in that manner. The only places you would see paint wear it on panels that are removed on a daily basis. The ammo access door on the left wing of you plane is about as heavy as paint chipping would get. Typically wear would be oil, dirt and grime, faded paint from the sun, and repairs from battle damage.
Here is a model of a realisticly worn P-40 to illustrate what I'm talking about.
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal3/2901-3000/Gal2976_P-40_Stark/00.shtm
If you were to tone down the paint stripping by 75% and wear the paint by fading, this could be the best skin in the game.
Also, wasn't the spinner red?
:cheers:
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Very nice, Ink. The worn paint effect looks fantastic.
But like the others I have to say it is way over done in this aircraft. I understand that you want that war torn look, but allied aircraft don't wear in that manner. The only places you would see paint wear it on panels that are removed on a daily basis. The ammo access door on the left wing of you plane is about as heavy as paint chipping would get. Typically wear would be oil, dirt and grime, faded paint from the sun, and repairs from battle damage.
Here is a model of a realisticly worn P-40 to illustrate what I'm talking about.
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal3/2901-3000/Gal2976_P-40_Stark/00.shtm
If you were to tone down the paint stripping by 75% and wear the paint by fading, this could be the best skin in the game.
Also, wasn't the spinner red?
:cheers:
thanx for tips...and that model is awesome :aok
the plane I am doing is Col Scotts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lee_Scott,_Jr.
I read he would paint the spinner different colors....and it mentions that in that wiki....
he also did not have any other markings on his plane....hell I saw a pic of his plane with NO markings at all, just the shark mouth, I almost did that one.
because of all the remarks about too much paint chipping I will re work that down a bit
again I appreciate very much,the comments and critique from those who did
:salute
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I concede after extensive p40 image searching the worst paint chipping I could find was this....defanitly way less then what I had going on....so expect an up date soon
:D
:salute
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/Curtiss_P-40Fs_near_Moore_AAF_1943.jpg)
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Ink,
what Oboe said, plz pay a lil bit more attention to the matching parts weathering. Your last version was pretty nice except the wingroot, where the straight line between the "healthy" fuslage and the bare metal wingroot was unreralistic.
Otherwise, pretty nice skin. Keep going!
:salute
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Ink,
what Oboe said, plz pay a lil bit more attention to the matching parts weathering. Your last version was pretty nice except the wingroot, where the straight line between the "healthy" fuslage and the bare metal wingroot was unreralistic.
Otherwise, pretty nice skin. Keep going!
:salute
:D
that did escape my attention....wont happen again sir :P
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The P40 is one of those aircraft that if it isnt perfect, it isnt right. ;) I too will jump on the "too weathered" bandwagon, but I'm glad to hear Ink is adjusting it a bit. :lol
I give you skinners a lot of credit. I started to work with the old M3 and quickly became a bit intimidated.
Thanks for adding another P40 skin!!! :salute
[anxiously awaits a white tailed 75 RAAF Squadron skin :aok ]
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worked it a bit more, tweaked the color (kinda happy with it)
completely redid the weathering...honestly I like the heavy weathered more :rofl
worked the belly a bit more, but not too much, I was happy with it before, added a bit of dirt and grime...
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p402.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p401.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p403.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p40-1.jpg)
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You know the more you tinker the better your skins are getting. :aok
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Now we're talkin' Ink. :O
I gotta ask, what's next on the drawing board?
109 :pray
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You know the more you tinker the better your skins are getting. :aok
thank ya, I am enjoying making them :salute
Now we're talkin' Ink. :O
I gotta ask, what's next on the drawing board?
109 :pray
right now I have another P40,a 51 and a 47, in progress (and a mossie I am still thinking on) .....what 109 do you like? I definitely want to do German stuff :aok
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thank ya, I am enjoying making them :salute
right now I have another P40,a 51 and a 47, in progress (and a mossie I am still thinking on) .....what 109 do you like? I definitely want to do German stuff :aok
ooh! ooh! 109F4!
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How does one strike you, Ink?
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall.gif)
Gunther Rall's Bf 109G-2 of 8/Jg52
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How does one strike you, Ink?
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall.gif)
Gunther Rall's Bf 109G-2 of 8/Jg52
nice.....gonna check it out... :aok
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It's beautiful; I love the bottom except for the undernose that looks like its rusty, and the interface between the underside of the rear fuselage and the underwing area is not matched - it should appear seamless - same level of weathering and shade on both sides.
I don't think that is the right shade of green though- I think it should either been olive brown or flat drab green - this shade seems to light and bright to me.
I strongly encourage you to dial down the gun muzzle soot. These were not coal-fired weapons after all.
I can tell you're having fun though and you sure do have talent!
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It's beautiful; I love the bottom except for the undernose that looks like its rusty, and the interface between the underside of the rear fuselage and the underwing area is not matched - it should appear seamless - same level of weathering and shade on both sides.
I don't think that is the right shade of green though- I think it should either been olive brown or flat drab green - this shade seems to light and bright to me.
I strongly encourage you to dial down the gun muzzle soot. These were not coal-fired weapons after all.
I can tell you're having fun though and you sure do have talent!
oh my that made me :rofl
very true :salute
that color is supposed to be "olive drab" :headscratch:
I did "dodge" the skin, to show sun fading....maybe I went a bit over board....wouldn't be surprised :lol
every thing else I planned on doing :P
Thanx :salute
How does one strike you, Ink?
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Rall.gif)
Gunther Rall's Bf 109G-2 of 8/Jg52
just read his story.....I am humbled :salute
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Rall has a great story. I'm trying to find a copy of his memoir "My Logbook". But it's out of print and the going price is $600. :O
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Ha! glad you took it in the humorous vane it was intended. :D
AFA the olive drab, it could just be my LCD monitor. Other people will have to chime in too - I wouldn't rely on just one person's opinion. My opinion is that is should be darker with more brown, but that is just me. I'm not positive either that early war US fighters used the olive brown drab color. I know that the early P-47s and P-51s were referred to as being painted brown drab, but not sure about 1941 colors. They may have been more of the flat green like a Jeep or other Army vehicles.
Anxious to see your version of German iron - and how is it that we do not have Gunther Rall's 109 already?! Anyway great opportunity for you--I think your style will look especially good on German a/c.
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Ha! glad you took it in the humorous vane it was intended. :D
AFA the olive drab, it could just be my LCD monitor. Other people will have to chime in too - I wouldn't rely on just one person's opinion. My opinion is that is should be darker with more brown, but that is just me. I'm not positive either that early war US fighters used the olive brown drab color. I know that the early P-47s and P-51s were referred to as being painted brown drab, but not sure about 1941 colors. They may have been more of the flat green like a Jeep or other Army vehicles.
Anxious to see your version of German iron - and how is it that we do not have Gunther Rall's 109 already?! Anyway great opportunity for you--I think your style will look especially good on German a/c.
I had it a bit darker but then it looked too brown :cry
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Mr. Ink,
You went overboard on removing the paint chips. ;) Seriously, it could use some roughening up of the wing edges. Not sandblasting, but subtle chips here and there. Your wear and tear is very good, it just needs to be more subtle. The nose cone is still a bit too worn. The smoke stains need to be lighter. The stains on the fuselage end too abruptly. They should fade out along their length. And the green seems too green now. Your original color with a smidge more green would be perfect. :aok
It is easy to be so picky when I'm not the one who has to do all the work. :D
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Mr. Ink,
You went overboard on removing the paint chips. ;) Seriously, it could use some roughening up of the wing edges. Not sandblasting, but subtle chips here and there. Your wear and tear is very good, it just needs to be more subtle. The nose cone is still a bit too worn. The smoke stains need to be lighter. The stains on the fuselage end too abruptly. They should fade out along their length. And the green seems too green now. Your original color with a smidge more green would be perfect. :aok
It is easy to be so picky when I'm not the one who has to do all the work. :D
cc that, great advice, all taken in :aok
now that all my layers are done its not much work at all...except the wearing and chipping paint...that has to be redone each time...but seriously I do a lot of versions any ways just to experiment, I think I have 7 different bmp's for this one...probably double that by time I am done :lol
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Love the underside Ink, just beautiful. :aok
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Love the underside Ink, just beautiful. :aok
thank ya kind sir :salute
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ink,
I really like the updated version of your skin. The weathering is definitely coming into its own. A few key pointers that I am noticing on my end:
1. The olive drab doesn't appear to be the right shade of paint. Try darkening the paint up a little bit with more "brown". The paint right now looks a little bit too "green".
2. Reduce the paint chippings around the spinner and engine housing. I like your enthusiasm with detail and weathered looks, but it just looks out of place.
3. Take a look at the underside of the aircraft. You will see that the under wing connects to the rear fuselage. Your textures do not blend. Make sure that the textures blend seamlessly to give a more realistic representation of the paint scheme.
Hope this helps. Best of luck.
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ink,
I really like the updated version of your skin. The weathering is definitely coming into its own. A few key pointers that I am noticing on my end:
1. The olive drab doesn't appear to be the right shade of paint. Try darkening the paint up a little bit with more "brown". The paint right now looks a little bit too "green".
2. Reduce the paint chippings around the spinner and engine housing. I like your enthusiasm with detail and weathered looks, but it just looks out of place.
3. Take a look at the underside of the aircraft. You will see that the under wing connects to the rear fuselage. Your textures do not blend. Make sure that the textures blend seamlessly to give a more realistic representation of the paint scheme.
Hope this helps. Best of luck.
thank ya...working on everything you mentioned :D
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If you look at those pictures Lyric posted, you'll see there's no gun soot on top of the wing, but that there is a good deal of soot at the openings where the shell cases eject. You get a couple details dialed in and this is gonna be a really nice skin. I'll help Krusty out a little: there's nothing wrong with taking liberties to create a skin of how an aircraft "could" be weathered. The only suggestion would be to make sure that whatever you imagine is similar in the amount and type of weathering. Last, there is a website out there (if indeed it still is) that has the actual Army/Navy paint shades in CMYK, RGB, etc. values. Might help you get closer to the real thing first, and then you can fade it out. http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/
Regardless, its still coming along nicely.
[EDIT] If you go to the Paint Swatches link, they even have the AVG colors listed.
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If you look at those pictures Lyric posted, you'll see there's no gun soot on top of the wing, but that there is a good deal of soot at the openings where the shell cases eject. You get a couple details dialed in and this is gonna be a really nice skin. I'll help Krusty out a little: there's nothing wrong with taking liberties to create a skin of how an aircraft "could" be weathered. The only suggestion would be to make sure that whatever you imagine is similar in the amount and type of weathering. Last, there is a website out there (if indeed it still is) that has the actual Army/Navy paint shades in CMYK, RGB, etc. values. Might help you get closer to the real thing first, and then you can fade it out. http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/
Regardless, its still coming along nicely.
[EDIT] If you go to the Paint Swatches link, they even have the AVG colors listed.
awesome Thank you :salute
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the p40 is looking very nice ink, perhaps a little more weathering on the belly?
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damn was I off on the color :O
Thanx to Stoney for pointing me in the direction for good colors.....awesome Stoney..Thank you :salute
..I set up a palate so if any that have GIMP want it let me know, this has most military colors you could want, plus some....
got a couple quick mock up shots with no weathering or dirt / grime .....what A change it makes giving it the right color :rofl
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/OD_3.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/OD_2.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/OD_1.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/OD.jpg)
seriously thanx to all who helped push me to get it right....its not perfect I know, I see a few things I need to fine tune, but without all your input I would NEVER been able to get it to this level :salute
the p40 is looking very nice ink, perhaps a little more weathering on the belly?
:D workin it
I should get it done tonight...no I will have it done tonight....on a side note...the KI-84 is in queue :rock
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:O looks fantastic :aok those colors are perfect IMO
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Looks fantastic Ink. :aok
Just don't forget to add some OD green to the landing gear fairings.
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Looks fantastic Ink. :aok
Just don't forget to add some OD green to the landing gear fairings.
:rofl
noticed that after I put up the pics :rofl
looking at them after you always see something that needs tweaking :rofl
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Looking forward to the finished version, ink! It is definitely good that you stuck with it for the long haul. I think once you finish this skin, you would have learned a lot of valuable information and skinning should come much easier for you. :salute
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I agree the new color looks much more correct. Great job!
It looks like the green/gray interface area needs some tweaking to match the line created by the bottom rear of the wing - your green on the rear fuselage extends down a bit to far. And a lot of times after you change the overall shade of the A/C, you need to go back and readjust the level of details like rivets and screws. All real subjective stuff but every time you make a change, you gotta look at balance of ten other layers it seems.
I think the correct border between the green topside and underside gray should be a fine 'spray paint' brush. I see this on the nose, but on the wings its a razor straight edge between the green and gray, and at other spots along the fuselage its a jagged edge border - you'll want the spray paint brush everywhere I think.
Don't forget to fix the correct location of the underwing star insignia opposite the upper wing with the star if you haven't already.
Muzzle stains look much more authentic too! :aok And congrats on the Ki84 accepted!
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Ink, this photo is of 3 fresh from the factory Corsairs before they have any tactical markings applied. It gives you a good idea of how the paint transitions from one color to another. Now, when I put some skins together, I had a base gray layer, and a base OD layer, then put a "sprayed" edge on the OD to make the transition. You can see that its a fairly soft edge. Obviously you can use whatever technique you like best.
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p61/stonewall74/db_0686_21.jpg)
Regardless, the new colors look really good. I'm excited to see what all of your very detailed weathering looks like on top of the new base colors. One last detail I'll point out is the engine exhaust soot color. In Lyric's pics, you'll notice its more white-ish than black. Most aircraft run a fairly leaned mixture, which produces a white/grayish color on paint (my real life aircraft had white/gray stains on the belly). The only exceptions I've seen to this were P-47s and Corsairs. I don't know if it was merely a matter of richer mixture or what. Hellcats had a lighter stain, so its not something common to the R-2800 across the board. P-47 soot comes out of the waste-gate, so I don't know if the turbo-charging aparatus makes it darker or what, but most P-47s that I've seen have a much darker soot color. Anyway, looking very good my friend.
[EDIT] I went back through Lyric's pics and can't see a uniform color. Some are darker and some are lighter. Could be they started out running them richer, and then ran them leaner as time went on.
[EDIT #2] Also, don't forget that the control surfaces (at least some) were fabric covered. Greebo does a really nice subdued fabric effect and Fester has some good ones too.
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hehe
you guys are funny :rofl
guess what i been working on the last couple hours....a quick peek :D
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/close_up.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/close_up_2.jpg)
:salute
thanx.....I am psyched it's on the queue list :D....I have had a lot of folks asking about it, I am happy that most like it and this P40....I am gonna do as many as I can, I am overwhelmed by the pm's and in game encouragement, the requests for me to skin planes is ......ahhh cant explain it....almost better then doing a tattoo on someone..and that's saying a lot......
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Great minds, right?
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Great minds, right?
:D
I was doing some more searching and found a pic of Scott standing next to his bird and the tiger is the typical one that was on all of them, his plane "old Exterminator" the second version I guess,is the one had that had the tiger flying through the ring, so I switched it over for the earlier one, and he definitely changed his spinner color, he would paint it either red, blue, OD, or red white and blue.......not sure yet which one I am gonna do... :headscratch:
he was a lone wolf..like me :D..went out on his own attacking bridges and what not, I don't think he was actually in the AVG, but he flew with them, and took over when they became the 23rd, I also believe he was the first American ace in ww2....(could be wrong on that but I don't think so)
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a quick shot of the weathering I did last night.....I may tone it down A bit, but I am liking it....definitely not gonna go more then this.
besides that I gotta do a few odds and ends.... then she will be done :pray
not sure if I like the red spinner..gonna try it in blue and OD...not gonna try the red white and blue...don't know how he configured the colors.... :headscratch:
:rofl looking at it now I realized I forgot the kill markings...which should be on the layer with the nose art....damn im getting :old:
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/weathering.jpg)
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chipping still overdone... heres a tip
make a copy of your rivet layer and your panel line highlight layer (the white one)
adjust the color of each to a greyish light blue.
make it 100% opacity and start erasing most of it except where you want to show paint popped off rivet heads and paint missing around panel edges.
you can then expand on this with an additional layer of the save color or hell merge it if your feeling adventurous.
use dodge and burn tools to give hints of reflection or variation and staining to the chipped areas. experiment with it.
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chipping still overdone... heres a tip
make a copy of your rivet layer and your panel line highlight layer (the white one)
adjust the color of each to a greyish light blue.
make it 100% opacity and start erasing most of it except where you want to show paint popped off rivet heads and paint missing around panel edges.
you can then expand on this with an additional layer of the save color or hell merge it if your feeling adventurous.
use dodge and burn tools to give hints of reflection or variation and staining to the chipped areas. experiment with it.
I actually do something very similar, I make a duplicate copy of the rivets/panel lines..erase the ones I want to keep paint covered, and then I select and cut out the remaining rivets and lines, then I erase over that layer, which erases the color layer exposing the metal layer below, then I just delete that copied layer I used as a "temp-plate" for erasing.
honestly I have come to depend on the dodge and burn tools, I think I use them more then any other tool.
I also do A LOT of experimenting with the different ways to layer and adjusting the opacity..... I have a basic method on what I do first and all the steps till the end....but I get carried away with the experimenting :rofl
you seriously think its too much chipping.. :cry...I keep leaning towards keeping this version, I just like the way it looks.....although I should try it with a bit less to compare. :headscratch:
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Better and better. Listen to fester, tho' :aok
And you can probably score some easy bucks by making actual paintings and selling them. :banana:
<dares grizz to get a 109k tat> :noid
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Better and better. Listen to fester, tho' :aok
And you can probably score some easy bucks by making actual paintings and selling them. :banana:
<dares grizz to get a 109k tat> :noid
haha Thanx
I may design an AOM tat for myself :D
I have sold a bunch of paintings....hell I've been selling my artwork most my life...but that old saying "starving artist" is so true...in this economy very few people are gonna spend money on artwork.
although I just had a couple drop $1,500 for tat work...which is pretty crazy seeings how I am not even in a shop, they have been searching for me for a few years and refused to let anyone else tattoo them, that feels good :o
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I am not looking to re create a particular pic of this plane, but more of an attitude or time in its life...
...
I like the worn out battle hardened look...I cant escape it
...
exactly what is not historically accurate?
because of the wear and tear :headscratch: does that not happen under usage? and just because there are no "pics" of it, it happened and to think otherwise is pure silliness.
I think you need to let go of that old thought that you need to make a skin EXACTLY like it is in a pic....obviously I am not talking about the nose art and markings.
but to say my two skins so far is all fantasy is an out right lie, they are both real planes, both skins are real.
trust me if I wanted to make a skin look EXACTLY like it is in a pic, I could do that, wouldn't be very hard. (or should I say would not be any more difficult then what I am doing now, it would be easier in fact)
but my imagination wont let me, I see a plane and I know it goes through some beatings and a rough life,(much like myself) there is no way a paint job is gonna stay pristine during a war absolutely NO WAY...so me being me, I do what I see as a "battle hardened" plane...plain and simple.
I told you when you sent me that PM about how I "only started skinning to cause a stir" that I am an ARTIST period, what the hell is so hard to understand about that....... :headscratch:
I don't think any AVG plane ever flew in such a sorry state of corrosion.
Look, my main beef with your work right now is you don't bother making it look real. You like to chip the hell out of anything, even if it was never that way. Please please PLEASE take a look at actual reference photos of the real plane or similar planes in the same place, same time, and/or same unit. NONE of them have the nearly 30% paint loss like you show on the wings and fuselage.
This is what I meant by you need to turn your imagination OFF. You're imagining something that just never was. It's not a historic skin. If I took Harmann's 109G and left the codes the same, the nose art, but painted it like a P-47, it would be an apt analogy.
You can't just make up how the plane looked if it never looked that way. I'm sorry, but when the weathering effect is to smear mud all over the belly, pure black sludge dripping from every panel lines, and to remove half the paint on the upper surfaces, you ARE responsible for reigning things in back into the realm of possibility.
Weathering IS as much a part of the final skin as the skin itself. And you are grossly mis-weathering this plane.
If you REALLY REALLY must weather the hell out of something, don't force it onto a plane it doesn't belong. FIND ONE that really looked that way (and served in combat that way) and skin it, instead.
You are still in the fantasy realm. Getting much closer with the latest one, but you still refuse to take feedback that points you to the real war-time rides you are supposed to be representing.
Your problem is you want to weather the ^@#$ out of it and don't really care what the subject is. It's the wrong approach IMO, and leads to simply bad skins. Good artwork, but bad end skins, if you see my distinction.
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See Rules #4, #6
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See Rule #4
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Please chill guys.
Ultimately it'll be up to HTC to accept or reject such a skin.
I do think the paint wear is overdone as well - to me, depicting paint worn off the vertical sections of the wing fillet indicates flaking and poor paint quality, not wear due to foot traffic. In that respect the paint wear you've shown resembles more what I've seen on a Japanese plane, but not a U.S. plane that I can recall.
U.S. planes had better paint quality and for the most part were reasonably well maintained in most theaters, I think. (early war South pacific and North Africa might be the exceptions)
Hey, ink - another thing you might try to add an authentic look - show fresher spray paint to cover parts of areas that have been chipped or peeled - this paint would be darker and less faded, and would be found along panel seams, etc.
Also, you could show an odd panel section with a slightly different shade, to indicate the panel section was scrounged from a different aircraft to replace a damaged panel cover, or removed completely and given a fresh coat of spray paint while it was off the plane. I think this could realistically happen with engine access panels, hatch covers, etc - panels that had screw attachments. I wouldn't do it to sections that were riveted in however.
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See Rule #4
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I do think the paint wear is overdone as well - to me, depicting paint worn off the vertical sections of the wing fillet indicates flaking and poor paint quality, not wear due to foot traffic. In that respect the paint wear you've shown resembles more what I've seen on a Japanese plane, but not a U.S. plane that I can recall. U.S. planes had better paint quality and for the most part were reasonably well maintained in most theaters, I think. (early war South pacific and North Africa might be the exceptions)
This... Most American aircraft didn't stay in service long enough to achieve this type of wear. I remember an anecdote about the difference between the Corsairs the U.S. flew and those the RNAF flew. Some RNAF pilot saw a bunch of older Corsairs sitting in a holding area awaiting shipment back to the states, and noted that all of them appeared in better shape than those the RNAF were currently flying.
I think its about just getting the weathering to a realistic level rather than trying to put a curb on your creativity.
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This... Most American aircraft didn't stay in service long enough to achieve this type of wear. I remember an anecdote about the difference between the Corsairs the U.S. flew and those the RNAF flew. Some RNAF pilot saw a bunch of older Corsairs sitting in a holding area awaiting shipment back to the states, and noted that all of them appeared in better shape than those the RNAF were currently flying.
I think its about just getting the weathering to a realistic level rather than trying to put a curb on your creativity.
:salute
I am trying to do just that.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/close_3.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/close.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/close_2.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/close_4.jpg)
and of course the "action shot" :D
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/close_5.jpg)
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I am trying to do just that.
That gunk from the wheels...
1) What are you thinking it is? hydraulic fluid?
2) The flow pattern isn't logical, whatever fluid it might be.
3) What would be causing the area between the wheels to weather and burn-in like that?
I really hope you get your urge to beatdown/over weather planes under control, if only because I'd like to see them in-game, as opposed to only admiring them for your artistic interpretation and abilities.
You want to be a Rockwell or Dali? For in-game skins, you're gonna need to rock well. :aok
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That gunk from the wheels...
1) What are you thinking it is? hydraulic fluid?
2) The flow pattern isn't logical, whatever fluid it might be.
3) What would be causing the area between the wheels to weather and burn-in like that?
I really hope you get your urge to beatdown/over weather planes under control, if only because I'd like to see them in-game, as opposed to only admiring them for your artistic interpretation and abilities.
You want to be a Rockwell or Dali? For in-game skins, you're gonna need to rock well. :aok
:rofl
now that is good criticism :salute
I guess I was going for this look but much dirtier, you can see the streaks from the wheel wells, I just tried to picture a beat up "used hard put up wet" dirty bellybutton P 40...but tried to not over do it...haha
maybe I shoulda been looking at this pic while doing it...but this is not a war weary plane....
I will work the belly more
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p40bottom.jpg)
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See Rule #4
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I guess I was going for this look but much dirtier, you can see the streaks from the wheel wells, I just tried to picture a beat up "used hard put up wet" dirty bellybutton P 40...but tried to not over do it...haha
maybe I shoulda been looking at this pic while doing it...but this is not a war weary plane....
I will work the belly more
that's a cool and very good reference pic...
now I can see better what it all is, even the burnishing of the oil on metal area I was wondering about. From the pic you can see that the overall plate has a fairly uniform-ish color as the heat/oil are evenly distributed, affected by the wind as well. I think you went a little too far over to the sides and lost the "heat" as a unifying and driving factor behind the cause of that kind of weathering.
The wheel "gunk" - heh, sorry, in your work seems based more on "soot," while from the picture I get the impression it's more of a soil/water perhaps with light hydraulic fluid. Looks like it could be easily washed off. <edit: upped my gamma and saw the mud oboe referred to - if anything this is what would be in this area.>
Keep at it and there's no doubt your work will start to get in the queues. :banana:
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Is it? That's interesting because he's commenting that your weathering looks unrealistic, and saying he hopes you reign it in. He's trying to get you to think about why it looks like that, compared to real aircraft.
I put it in artsy-fartsy terms like rockwell and dali and he got the idea. :aok
or maybe it was the "what were you thinking?" :noid
in any case, I find ink to be very accomodating to critique, (while still weakly defending his inner artiste :neener: ) you may not think he is to yours, but you can bet he's taking it all in. He wants this stuff in-game, yanno? :airplane:
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Wow its really looking nice! very realistic mud on tires, but if it were travelling through that much mud, we might expect to see some mud stains thrown up from the spinning wheel onto the underside of wing and horizontal stabilizer too?
I'm not sure about the panel you shown as a replaced panel though - I think this area is riveted directly to the wing spar (I don't have a P-40 cutaway view though) and its doubtful that it would be replaced in the field. (Not positive about that) But I think they might replace a flap or aileron or ammo tray cover. A new aileron would not be metal thoough - I think they were fabric.
The green looks absolutely spot-on to me now.
EDIT: Found a cutaway view.
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/tjlaven/P40E_1_13.jpg)
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The top surfaces here:
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/close_4.jpg)
Are the best so far. Getting rid of the massive paint loss really helps.
I would say ease up on the red spinner chipping, paint the wing panel, and re-thinking the undersides and it would be a good skin.
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See Rule #4
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Its still entirely believable that the paint could be worn down to the metal on the inner wing surface where the pilot and ground crew might walk to climb in/out of the cockpit though - I know I've seen that much wear in pics of P-38s.
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Its still entirely believable that the paint could be worn down to the metal on the inner wing surface where the pilot and ground crew might walk to climb in/out of the cockpit though - I know I've seen that much wear in pics of P-38s.
I posted one earlier it has heavy wear at the wing root....
yes I absolutely admit that I went way over board at first, I do realize that they did not chip/wear anywhere near the Jap planes...but LISTENING to all of you has guided me to this point...I said before with out you guy's input I would not be here now......
thanx for your input :salute
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Foot traffic is the exception to the rule, yes. Depending on the repainting cycle you could have scuffed paint, worn paint, or chipped paint. Boots sped up the process. Leaving it up to airflow alone, the rest of the airframe tended to do much better. You do see some here and there, but it's not as common as the foot area.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/older02.jpg)
On this you see the foot traffic yes. Another idea you might take from it is not paint chipping, but rather the still-covered paint behind the cockpit. What you see is a fading of the paint based on gas spillage. The fuel tank ports are up in the window behind the cockpit. The white is more like the residue you'd see after the exhaust pipes. Interestingly, this is not unique to the P-40 and has some interesting effects on different planes.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/clark.jpg)
This is at Clark Field. You do see some chipping and wear here, but this is also state-side. You find a lot more beatup planes stateside. They were used and abused and were training tools. You will find some in absolutely horrible shape based state-side. It should probably be discounted as one of your references.
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Check your lower right wing star, its cut off by the flight surface.
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See Rule #4
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Check your lower right wing star, its cut off by the flight surface.
at first I was like ...no way its an illusion.......nope...good call :aok
I messed that up :(
QFT.
Really liking your work so far INK!
Thank ya :salute
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sux I hate seeing rule #'s broken....in here :(
anyways I think I am done with it.... :pray
I cant even guess how many hours I put into it :rofl
I will be posting pics soon for final critique. unless its something glaringly wrong I plan on sending it in ASAP :aok
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She's a beauty Ink. Can't wait to see what other tricks you have to pull out of your hat. :rock
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
started takin pics....realized that I DID forget some things.......landing lights and and small stuff like that :rofl :rofl
She's a beauty Ink. Can't wait to see what other tricks you have to pull out of your hat. :rock
Thank ya
:o
:salute
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/latest_4.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/latest_2.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/latest_3.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/latest_1.jpg)
action Jackson
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/latest.jpg)
oh just spotted something else AHHHHHHHH its never ending :rofl
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oh just spotted something else AHHHHHHHH its never ending
The blue on the spinner?
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A good colour photo for reference purposes.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40alaska-1.jpg)
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A good colour photo for reference purposes.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/p40alaska-1.jpg)
:O I want that one on the right at the end of the photo! :rock
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The blue on the spinner?
nope that's there on purpose, the guy who flew this plane, painted his spinner a few different colors, so I am showing the color underneath the red.
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Hmm. OK.
It looks wierd to me that way. Maybe if you had OD green underneath. That would look pretty cool.
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It's really looking good but I don't think the red/blue spinner works. I didn't know what you were trying to do until you told us. I think they probably would've undercoated the red with a neutral-colored primer and not sprayed it directly over the blue, but have no proof of that.
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It's really looking good but I don't think the red/blue spinner works. I didn't know what you were trying to do until you told us. I think they probably would've undercoated the red with a neutral-colored primer and not sprayed it directly over the blue, but have no proof of that.
ya I am not sure :headscratch:
maybe if it was less blue....Im guessing he painted that a lot more often, I've read in a few different site's that he was known for doing this, that is why he had no numbers on the plane also, trying to confuse the nme into thinking there where many more planes....so with that thinking I would bet they would just paint over the old spinner color with out to much more then just slappin on the new paint...
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Ink, that's why I recomnended the olive drab showing through the red. It accomplishes the effect you're going for without looking odd. There isnt blue anywhere else on the plane. Sombody who notices the blue would wonder why the blue is there, but with the OD it becomes obvious that the red paint is wearing off, revealing the paint underneath.
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Ink, that's why I recomnended the olive drab showing through the red. It accomplishes the effect you're going for without looking odd. There isnt blue anywhere else on the plane. Sombody who notices the blue would wonder why the blue is there, but with the OD it becomes obvious that the red paint is wearing off, revealing the paint underneath.
good call :aok
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I think the brown on the undersides isn't quite right, still. It's too prominent, and too bright. When you see a car with a fan of mud spraying backwards from the wheel well (like it was flinging mud for a while) it isn't very bright. It gets dull as it dries on. I think maybe a number of things might help, such as reducing the opacity on your current level by half, or changing the hue/saturation of that layer, or something.
Ink, one valuable tip is when you think you are done, don't just get ready to hang up your tools and submit it. Rather, when you think you are done, save it and sit on it. Don't even LOOK at it for a week. Forget about it as much as you can. Then in one week open it up, look at it in-game and in the skins viewer. You get a set of fresh eyes on your progress that way. THEN, do the changes that will pop out at you (i.e. forgetting landing lights or some such), let sit again. When you get to the point you notice nothing missing and nothing overlooked, submit it.
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I think the brown on the undersides isn't quite right, still. It's too prominent, and too bright. When you see a car with a fan of mud spraying backwards from the wheel well (like it was flinging mud for a while) it isn't very bright. It gets dull as it dries on. I think maybe a number of things might help, such as reducing the opacity on your current level by half, or changing the hue/saturation of that layer, or something.
Ink, one valuable tip is when you think you are done, don't just get ready to hang up your tools and submit it. Rather, when you think you are done, save it and sit on it. Don't even LOOK at it for a week. Forget about it as much as you can. Then in one week open it up, look at it in-game and in the skins viewer. You get a set of fresh eyes on your progress that way. THEN, do the changes that will pop out at you (i.e. forgetting landing lights or some such), let sit again. When you get to the point you notice nothing missing and nothing overlooked, submit it.
I think this is very good advice. Often its not until my skin is in the game that I'll see some obvious error in it and I wonder how I could've missed it.
But not having any info from HTC about skin pack release schedule is frustrating and can cause you to rush to submission so you won't miss getting your skin into the next release.
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That's not an issue now with the doubled skin slots.
It is what it is... Getting it into the queue doesn't mean getting it into the next skins pack. It is very much fire-and-forget once you submit. Any mistakes linger in-game for a long time due to the skin pack update schedule. I corrected one of my 109Fs 2 or 3 times and it took forever. If I'd just waited and looked it over I would only have had to do it once.
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Wow !!! ... the latest version is so much better than previous versions.
Ink ... no doubt you have artistic talent ... I think the thing that you have to remember when skinning a plane is that the "artistic freedom license" has to take a back seat to to the "artistic logic license" when skinning planes.
There is nothing wrong with your weathering/use techniques. As a matter of fact, they are superb IMHO, but you have to ask yourself ...
"Would this weathering/use that I would like to place on this plane ... in a logic place that weathering/use would take place under most normal operating circumstances?"
The latest version of this skin looks like you asked yourself this question ... keep it up.
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Looks awesome ink and I have to agree with Krusty that the brown underneath for the oil leakage should be toned down a little ... other than that you are getting better sir... :aok :aok
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thanx all for the replies :salute
I very much appreciate the advise....and words.
I wish we could use a bigger image for more detail....then I could do a tiny bit of blue and it would not be no where near as noticeable, which is what I wanted, there is actually two different reds in the spinner also to show the different layers painted but going to "indexed" really screws it up, I have heard about "bright" downloaded it but just not woking for me....indexing is the worst :bhead
anybody ever enlarge the image to 2048 and then shrink it back down? im thinking about doing that. it may allow much more detail to be put in. :headscratch:
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Up sampling then down sampling does nothing for quality.
Even working 2048 then down sampling does nothing for quality. In the end it is best to work at the end resolution. These tricks and been tried and discarded over the years.
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Talk about oil on the drop tank and look how much mud on this P40E of the 23FG
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/1-P-40E-Warhawk-23FG-01.jpg)
And I assume you have seen this
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/AVG7.jpg)
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-areas to improve:
- cut and paste your top olive drab onto 1-2 pixels of the lower wing texturemap so it matches adn you get a seamless transition from od to grey by erasing all the olive drab that you cut and pasted except for a few pixels on the leading edge. do this for all hard transitions so you tie the whole plane together and remove seams.
- your paint chipping detracts from the skin and does not add realism yet.
study real weathring pics. make it more refined and crisp. its to blurry and large scale to be realistic. real chips on most areas but the walkways are small. use a dodge and burn tool to "blend in" the paint chipping more and give it some fake reflection effects if you get my meaning. I would delete the entire paint chip layer and do it again.
- copy your rivet layer and change its color to the same color your using for paint chips then erase most of it except where you want paint chips. use this as a reference and then with a tiny brush expand on it adding more chips on places where chips should be.
- lower the opacity of the mud and or erase some of the grime or blur it all a bit by hand. it detracts from the realism.
olive drab color looks much improved.
realism realism realism.
try some rivet and panel deformation with a white and a black layer if you read that tutorial oboe posted.
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oh and use bright to reduce your texturemap to 256 colors.
its a tiny free program though it may be hard to find. perhaps someone here has a link to it.
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desaturate those damn stars too faint blue more greyish dark greyish blue.
come to think of it if its flying tigers it should have chinese stars?
you must be improving a lot if you got me to post this many nitpicks to improve it more.
make that bird look like a flying photograph straight out of ww2 is what I hope your objective is with this project. This can be accomplished mostly with specific color choices and desaturating more extreme stuff. but also through very very intricate detailing and attempts to add realism instead of cartoonish caricatures of what you thought it looked like.
i suggest going to your local airport or museum and looking closely at the warbirds there for a first hand example of what the surface of aircraft look like from the pilots seat.
make all details visible from the pilots seat shaded and baked in bump mapped and reflected from the pilots view if it will be visible from the cockpit.
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oh and use bright to reduce your texturemap to 256 colors.
its a tiny free program though it may be hard to find. perhaps someone here has a link to it.
I down loaded "BRIGHT" but cant get it to work....this is a big issue going from "RGB" to "index" is APITA and hurts the detail I put in.
it definitely pix-elates.....
thanxs for the tips....... :salute
I don't use a color for "paint chips" :headscratch:
everything else I can work on :salute
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ink are you using Photoshop? I thought somewhere I read you were using GIMP. I think "Bright" is a Photoshop plugin.
The second P-40 pic posted by Megalodon is a P-40K, not a P-40E. Can tell by the ugly fillet at the base of the tail. P-40K has a real ungainliness about it.
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ink are you using Photoshop? I thought somewhere I read you were using GIMP. I think "Bright" is a Photoshop plugin.
The second P-40 pic posted by Megalodon is a P-40K, not a P-40E. Can tell by the ugly fillet at the base of the tail. P-40K has a real ungainliness about it.
haha that's why it wont work :o
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ink are you using Photoshop? I thought somewhere I read you were using GIMP. I think "Bright" is a Photoshop plugin.
The second P-40 pic posted by Megalodon is a P-40K, not a P-40E. Can tell by the ugly fillet at the base of the tail. P-40K has a real ungainliness about it.
I actually think it looks good and I tell by the exhaust.
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I actually think it looks good and I tell by the exhaust.
I think the P-40K is my favorite, how can you tell one by its exhaust?
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I think the P-40K is my favorite, how can you tell one by its by the exhaust?
:rofl was thinking same thing..... :headscratch:
maybe we just mis took what he is saying :confused:
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Ink, To use bright with Gimp.
Save > replace > export (merge visible layers)> click on the advanced options, and select 24 bit.
Then go to the file and double click the Bright Icon. (you are saving the bmp in the same folder as bright aren't you?)
Cheers.
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I think the P-40K is my favorite, how can you tell one by its exhaust?
Look at the difference:
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/AVG7E-1.jpg)
K has a sorta triangular stacks. E's has more rounded like the B/C. It is possible that Scotts E could have a replacement Allison in it.
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is that a pumpkin on the side profile??
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is that a pumpkin on the side profile??
You mean adam and eves apple? w/snake
Btw: In Charlie Bonds book he states that the the 1st 100 P40 delivered were camo.
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Ink, To use bright with Gimp.
Save > replace > export (merge visible layers)> click on the advanced options, and select 24 bit.
Then go to the file and double click the Bright Icon. (you are saving the bmp in the same folder as bright aren't you?)
Cheers.
I have the image in the 24 bit folder, I have a version of "bright" that has a GUI when I say for it to "run bright" it gives me an error..."could not find file" or something like that :headscratch:
Look at the difference:
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/AVG7E-1.jpg)
K has a sorta triangular stacks. E's has more rounded like the B/C. It is possible that Scotts E could have a replacement Allison in it.
Scott actually had a few different planes, his most famous is "Old Exterminator" which I believe was a K......when he flew with the AVG, he had an E, this is the plane I am doing.
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I have the image in the 24 bit folder, I have a version of "bright" that has a GUI when I say for it to "run bright" it gives me an error..."could not find file" or something like that :headscratch:
Scott actually had a few different planes, his most famous is "Old Exterminator" which I believe was a K......when he flew with the AVG, he had an E, this is the plane I am doing.
"Old Exterminator" Is a name given by Scott it was never on his plane/s and it was a E, and the plane you are trying to do.
This is Scotts #7 Old Exterminator.
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/avg71.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/avg72.jpg)
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"Old Exterminator" Is a name given by Scott it was never on his plane/s and it was a E, and the plane you are trying to do.
This is Scotts #7 Old Exterminator.
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/avg71.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/avg72.jpg)
he did have an "Old exterminator" that was a K also...this is not the only site I have found with it being A "K"
its cool in this site it talks about him painting his spinner EVERY sortie....yup somehow I am gonna show that. :headscratch:
http://www.aviationartstore.com/pilot_Robert_Scott.htm
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he did have an "Old exterminator" that was a K also...this is not the only site I have found with it being A "K"
its cool in this site it talks about him painting his spinner EVERY sortie....yup somehow I am gonna show that. :headscratch:
http://www.aviationartstore.com/pilot_Robert_Scott.htm
Not that I know how they did the repeated painting, but I'm thinking they'd just take off the hub and dunk it in some bad bellybutton chemical they didn't know was bad for them, or sandblast, before applying a new coat? Can't imagine a pilot wanting too many coats of what is basically extra weight on their plane.
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Not that I know how they did the repeated painting, but I'm thinking they'd just take off the hub and dunk it in some bad bellybutton chemical they didn't know was bad for them, or sandblast, before applying a new coat? Can't imagine a pilot wanting too many coats of what is basically extra weight on their plane.
in as many combat sorties as he had I would doubt that....I can not say though for certain.....i think it would be cool to show a bit of blue, under the paint but a lot less then the way it came out, well it looks good on the BMP, better anyways, he was known for this I really want to show that...sounds......I don't know silly...... but he thought it was worth doing, I should think it be worth bringing out in the skin.
although I put down the P 40 skin for a bit..(taken a bit of advice there :D)..I have been feverishly working the "Big Mac Junior" P51.... :t
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although I put down the P 40 skin for a bit..(taken a bit of advice there :D)..I have been feverishly working the "Big Mac Junior" P51.... :t
Big Mac? man, i could go for one of those right now...
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Big Mac? man, i could go for one of those right now...
:D
Ink, To use bright with Gimp.
Save > replace > export (merge visible layers)> click on the advanced options, and select 24 bit.
Then go to the file and double click the Bright Icon. (you are saving the bmp in the same folder as bright aren't you?)
Cheers.
got "Bright" working.....thanx a lot man appreciate it :salute
definitely makes a difference
some screens.....not looking for critique, as I was just messing around, trying different ways to make it look metal, thought it looks cool, I will be using a similar approach for my metal layers from now on....
also a quick peek at one of the 51's I"m doing :D
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/Untitled2-2.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/Untitled1-3.jpg)
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he did have an "Old exterminator" that was a K also...this is not the only site I have found with it being A "K"
its cool in this site it talks about him painting his spinner EVERY sortie....yup somehow I am gonna show that. :headscratch:
http://www.aviationartstore.com/pilot_Robert_Scott.htm
Well all I can say to that and the P40E in the picture on that site: get a few books, get into your subject, this is a pretty big Dood you bit off to ad your version of history too, hear him , and by all means listen to the "Skipper".
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/p-40e_23pg_scott_aa.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/p-40e_23pg_scott_bb.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/p-40e_23pg_scott_ac.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/p-40k_23pg_scott_bb.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kdc4yT8guw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kdc4yT8guw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8fcNRLbkhY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8fcNRLbkhY)
Good Luck,
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Well all I can say to that and the P40E in the picture on that site: get a few books, get into your subject, this is a pretty big Dood you bit off to ad your version of history too, hear him , and by all means listen to the "Skipper".
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/p-40e_23pg_scott_aa.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/p-40e_23pg_scott_bb.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/p-40e_23pg_scott_ac.jpg)
(http://www.j-aircraft.com/jiml/p-40k_23pg_scott_bb.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kdc4yT8guw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kdc4yT8guw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8fcNRLbkhY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8fcNRLbkhY)
Good Luck,
haha is that an E.....haha that's too funny, I cant tell the difference...... even though I should.
but that is definitely not the only site that says he had a K...when he became the CO of the 23rd he had an E...and then moved to a K......I have not read his book yet I definitely want to, and will pick it up as soon as I can.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1280534669/1280802459/Did+you+know+that+Robert+L.+Scott%27s+%26quot%3BOld+Exterminator%26quot%3B+might+... <----------------------this is a good site where someone questions whether or not it was camo.....which I don't believe any of them were....trust me I have read as much as I can about him without reading his book......(gotta do that)
too many sites talk about him painting his spinner for it not to be true, and not one site have I found disagrees with that or says otherwise....he was never in the AVG, he flew with them yes, but as a guest only........
I am "getting into my subject" as much as I can, I very much appreciate what these guys did...
Lastly..... I am not "adding my version of history" why would you say that :headscratch:
I am trying very hard to do him and his plane justice
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p40_shot.jpg)
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Glad you got Bright working :) I like your Bare Metal effect as well. Its looking pretty good. :aok
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Thank ya man, there is definitely a difference.....seems to do it with less pixelation....still get some, but its a very nice alternative :salute
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I have not read his book yet I definitely want to, and will pick it up as soon as I can.
List of books by Robert Lee Scott, Jr in chonological order:
God Is My Co-Pilot Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Charles Scribner's Sons 1943
Damned To Glory Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Charles Scribner's Sons 1944
Runway To The Sun Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Charles Scribner's Sons 1945
Between The Elephant's Eyes Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Dodd, Mead & Co. 1954
Samburu Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Dodd, Mead & Co. 1961
Look Of The Eagle Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Dodd, Mead & Co. 1955
Flying Tiger: Chennault of China Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Doubleday & Co. 1959
Tiger In The Sky Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Ballentine 1959
Boring A Hole In The Sky Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Random House 1961
God Is Still My Co-Pilot Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Augury Press 1967
To Walk The Great Wall Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Readers Digest April 1983
The Day I Owned The Sky Robert Lee Scott, Jr. Bantam Books 1988
MOVIES & VIDEO
Flying Tigers John Wayne, Artisan Entertainment Movie 1942
God Is My Co-Pilot Warner Bros. Movie 1945
Fei-Hu: The Story of the Flying Tigers Video Tape
:cheers:
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Looks great Ink, nicely dirtied up.
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Looks great Ink, nicely dirtied up.
Ty :salute
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Ink, if everything looks good, as far as markings go, then submit it! You've done a great job with this profile.
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Ink, if everything looks good, as far as markings go, then submit it! You've done a great job with this profile.
Thank you :salute
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INK, you dissapoint...this is not in game yet!
:lol
looks amazing, i think you got the perfect skin for the P40, now get your rear in gear and submit it!
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INK, you dissapoint...this is not in game yet!
:lol
looks amazing, i think you got the perfect skin for the P40, now get your rear in gear and submit it!
:D
thank ya