Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: MarineUS on August 30, 2011, 01:19:40 PM
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Alright here is the situation:
When my friend was in Iraq he sent me a loan of $6500 to help me buy my car with the knowledge that when he got back home, he would get to use my truck to move and that I would pay him back. This is fine and dandy UNTIL the day he is bringing the truck home.
I'm at work and I suddenly get four calls in a row....I've already guessed what happened. Anyway, he says the he wrecked the truck and it is now considered "totaled" - though it wasn't.....
So now (a year later) I'm still stuck with a wrecked truck in my yard that I can't afford to fix, he won't give me the tool box or the stereo back that was in it (he took it out after the wreck so it wouldn't get stolen.), and now he is demanding I repay the loan.
I told him I would have offered to pay it if he hadn't or wrecked it and that I would have paid him $3000 if he offered to help put in the time to fix the truck (which he didn't do).
Fun stuff. Not only do I have to fix it on my own (insurance was only liability at the time), I have to pay to have it inspected as well.
Break it down outline style:
Friend loans money in exchange for use of truck and to be paid back.
Friend wrecks truck, doesn't pay to have it fixed.
Friend won't give back items that were in/on vehicle.
Friend demanding payment of loan after he totaled my vehicle.
So I guess the question is: Chances of which side winning in court are?
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You missed something..... this is no real friend.
Is anything in writing? If not, then screw him and find a real friend.
As for the truck, I think your S.O.L.
You could tell this so called friend..... come get the truck. Get it out of your name if he does.
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It's his woman making him do it.....the succubus.....
The only thing in writing is the history of the wire transfer that said "Trck pymnt" or something along those lines.
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Where does insurance come into play in this?
If there is no written agreement to you paying him back, there really isn't much legal recourse he can take to my knowledge.
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Ahh so the wire transfer shows he made a truck payment. Then he needs to come pick up... his pickup.
I disagree about his wife "making" him do anything. The end decision is his to make.
We can all post our opinions on this till we are blue in the face. What you really need to do is visit a lawyer. Most will look over your issue for a little of nothing. Issues such as this are handled very differently in each state.
Or you can wait and see if "his wife" thinks it is worth the effort to pursue the issue.
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The truck is my baby lol
Granted if he wants to drive from NC to GA to pick it up then by all means he can. I'll probably cry like a little girl after she (the truck) is gone but it's all good.
Just wanted to make sure I was good to go. As for his wife forcing him....you don't know his wife... >.>;
He's whipped. Bad. :lol
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you borrowed $6500 from him. you owe him $6500.
you didnt make any arrangements about damage/insurance for when he borrowed it to move. you still owe him $6500
if he wants to make a contribution towards the repairs, that up to him. considering you dont seem to want to pay him back the loan, I'd say thats unlikely. you might be able to sue for some/all of the repairs, but you'd have to prove that he caused the damage maliciously, or recklessly.
edit: btw whats the cost of the repairs?
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If he wrecked it, he's liable for the damages to the vehicle. Get that sorted out in court first. As far as the loan goes, you may want to look up the law on verbal contracts in your state.
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Alright here is the situation:
When my friend was in Iraq he sent me a loan of $6500 to help me buy my car with the knowledge that when he got back home, he would get to use my truck to move and that I would pay him back. This is fine and dandy UNTIL the day he is bringing the truck home.
I'm at work and I suddenly get four calls in a row....I've already guessed what happened. Anyway, he says the he wrecked the truck and it is now considered "totaled" - though it wasn't.....
So now (a year later) I'm still stuck with a wrecked truck in my yard that I can't afford to fix, he won't give me the tool box or the stereo back that was in it (he took it out after the wreck so it wouldn't get stolen.), and now he is demanding I repay the loan.
I told him I would have offered to pay it if he hadn't or wrecked it and that I would have paid him $3000 if he offered to help put in the time to fix the truck (which he didn't do).
Fun stuff. Not only do I have to fix it on my own (insurance was only liability at the time), I have to pay to have it inspected as well.
Break it down outline style:
Friend loans money in exchange for use of truck and to be paid back.
Friend wrecks truck, doesn't pay to have it fixed.
Friend won't give back items that were in/on vehicle.
Friend demanding payment of loan after he totaled my vehicle.
So I guess the question is: Chances of which side winning in court are?
The side that has something on paper. If there is no paper work you can only lose if you want to. Basically, unless it is written down that he gave you the money and the terms of repayment, he can forget about it, unless you admit to it in court. Then, you are liable to repay the loan and you will have to go after him separately to get him to pay you for the truck he broke.
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you borrowed $6500 from him. you owe him $6500.
you didnt make any arrangements about damage/insurance for when he borrowed it to move. you still owe him $6500
if he wants to make a contribution towards the repairs, that up to him. considering you dont seem to want to pay him back the loan, I'd say thats unlikely. you might be able to sue for some/all of the repairs, but you'd have to prove that he caused the damage maliciously, or recklessly.
edit: btw whats the cost of the repairs?
The agreement was that he could borrow the truck. It was not written that he was responsible for the vehicle while he had it. It was also not written that he was going to be paid back. The whole thing is full of holes and gray areas.
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.....the succubus.....
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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It is implied that when you borrow something that belongs to someone else, you are to take care of it. I don't believe in stupidity, which is the only thing that would be an excuse to not understand that imho. I said he could use it - not destroy it. Common sense ≠ Common.
I always try to make sure that when I use something it is in EXACT or BETTER condition than when used. The agreement was he could use the truck and return it to me as it was when I let him use it. There is no written agreement, just the wire transfer.
As for paying him back: Hell no I don't want to pay him back. It's going to cost 4 grand to fix the thing. He got T-boned but was charged with failure to yield when making a left, putting him at fault for the wreck. He got hit by a Nissan Altima (who was texting and driving but had previously dated the officer who was in charge of the scene - which we found out after he went to court) and it completely ripped the drive shaft out from the truck, sent the rear driver wheel flying into the woods, bent the straight axle, and caused the side of the truck bed to wrap up and "hug" the bottom of the bed.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Glad I could give ya a laugh for the day. :D :D :D
She is a b**ch though.....I think he obeys her out of the sheer thought she might kill him. He does have one helluva life insurance policy. :uhoh
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just wondering if there was insurance on the Truck, if he borrowed it without insurance on the Truck both of you are at fault, you for letting him drive it with no insurance and him using it knowingly with no insurance. Full coverage will cover most accidents providing the insured vehicle is being operated by the registered owner, or the person borrowing the truck is covered through their insurance company. if it's liability insurance well your screwed on them fixing your truck. as far as the Loan goes if it was made in good faith then i would pay that back,just because he wrecked the truck is no reason not to repay the loan. The Truck is another legal matter seperate from the loan. either you'll have to sue him for the repairs or your insurance company ( if you have full coverage) will fix the truck and sue him for the repairs to recover the money spent to repair the truck.
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yeah thats what I figured
loan: $6500
repair: $4000
and you want to pocket the $2500 difference. is this greed or just total lack of honour?
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It is implied that when you borrow something that belongs to someone else, you are to take care of it. I don't believe in stupidity, which is the only thing that would be an excuse to not understand that imho. Common sense - not so common.
I always try to make sure that when I use something it is in EXACT or BETTER condition than when used. The agreement was he could use the truck and return it to me as it was when I let him use it. There is no written agreement, just the wire transfer.
As for paying him back: Hell no I don't want to pay him back. It's going to cost 4 grand to fix the thing. He got T-boned but was charged with failure to yield when making a left, putting him at fault for the wreck. He got hit by a Nissan Altima (who was texting and driving but had previously dated the officer who was in charge of the scene - which we found out after he went to court) and it completely ripped the drive shaft out from the truck, sent the rear driver wheel flying into the woods, bent the straight axle, and caused the side of the truck bed to wrap up and "hug" the bottom of the bed.
sux.......its a bad situation to be in, I have plenty of "court" experience but on a different level :rofl so I cant help ya there.......I personally would not pay him,I would tell him to come pick up his new truck, let him keep the stuff he took,(as far as I am concerned he stole that stuff, and I F'en hate thieves, a thief deserves NO respect) call it even...and never look back.
ether way good luck :salute
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The truck DID have insurance on it. Liability insurance. I was paying for the insurance while he drove it.
yeah thats what I figured
loan: $6500
repair: $4000
and you want to pocket the $2500 difference. is this greed or just total lack of honour?
Don't accuse me in not having honor. I still open doors for people, pull the chair out for my lady, and have a FIRM belief in the Marine Corps Values. HONOR, COURAGE, COMMITMENT.
It's GREED on his end that he used my vehicle, totaled it out and then wants all of his money back. If that is O.K. can I come to YOUR house, Holmes; loan you $50, borrow your computer and set it on fire, then demand all of my money back? I bet not.
Idk if you missed it or not BUT - I offered to pay him THREE THOUSAND dollars IF he offered to help fix it. (NOT even PAY to help fix it - just put in TIME.). SO using YOUR math HE gets 3 grand and I get nothing but a huge repair bill.
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how do you justify keeping his $2500?
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You didn't answer my question, bud.
EDIT: I'll be nice enough to answer yours though.
I justify it this way: I am keeping it in order to help pay for the damages and reinstall the toolbox and stereo he STOLE from me. The stereo and speakers run about 1300 bucks, the tool box is another grand. THEN I have to pay someone to come inspect it. SO in short, HE would owe ME money using YOUR math. The guy quoted me $300 to come inspect it and get me a new title. Not to mention I also have to get a new tag and reinstate the insurance after I had to cancel. I still have that fee to pay.
All of this caused when he wrecked it. So along with repairs.
4000 Repair
1300 Radio and speakers
1000 Tool Box (automatic tool box)
300 Inspection
140 Reinstatement Fee
+25 Tag
$6765
6765 > 6500
At this point - according to your math, Mr. "I'm full of honor" - he is in debt to me.
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ok I'll answer. no you cant.
now how do you justify keeping his $2500?
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Exactly what I thought.
and done - read my previous post.
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It's your fault for letting someone drive it regardless of who it was with only liability insurance.
Don't borrow money from your friends.
You still should pay him back it wasn't his fault he got in a wreck which should have been covered by insurance.
Life lesson learned i hope.
If you skimp on anything in life don't skimp on insurance.
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your making it sound like he wrecked the truck on purpose to justify to yourself for not paying him back, was it not an accident? if you want the truck fixed then sue him for repairs, if he wants his cash back then it sounds like he will have to sue you to get that back. both seperate legal issues i'm affraid.
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It's your fault for letting someone drive it regardless of who it was with only liability insurance.
Don't borrow money from your friends.
You still should pay him back it wasn't his fault he got in a wreck which should have been covered by insurance.
Life lesson learned i hope.
If you skimp on anything in life don't skimp on insurance.
I was making 350 bucks every two weeks, feeding four people and driving 50 miles a day for work....
explain to me how I could afford a $425 Insurance payment (That's what it would have been with my company for full coverage. They told me with my package either none or all of my vehicles had to get the same plan).
$700 a month.
50 a week for gas.
375 a month for groceries
400 on rent
That's already over drawing on me. I was having to borrow money from my mom to keep afloat until my second job kicked in.
your making it sound like he wrecked the truck on purpose to justify to yourself for not paying him back, was it not an accident? if you want the truck fixed then sue him for repairs, if he wants his cash back then it sounds like he will have to sue you to get that back. both seperate legal issues i'm affraid.
How am I making it sound like he wrecked on purpose? I'm just ticked he is demanding 6500 bucks after he wrecked my truck. Was it an accident? Yes. As the driver of the vehicle, was he at fault? Yes. On the ticket was he considered guilty? Yes.
I wouldn't demand money back after I totaled someone's vehicle. Especially when it was their only primary means of transportation. (My other car - WHICH HAS YEARS OF WORK PUT INTO IT - is a SHOW car. Was in Street Custom's Magazine. It's not a daily driver. Matter of fact, 2 days after he totaled my truck, I wrecked this car when I hit 3 deer at once taking someone home from work at 1:45AM). Both are sitting in the yard at this point, and neither will be hitting the road any time soon.
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ok so your costs arent $4000 but $6765, that makes a big difference. my apologies for questioning your honour. :salute
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I was making 350 bucks every two weeks, feeding four people and driving 50 miles a day for work....
explain to me how I could afford a $425 Insurance payment (That's what it would have been with my company for full coverage. They told me with my package either none or all of my vehicles had to get the same plan).
$700 a month.
50 a week for gas.
375 a month for groceries
400 on rent
That's already over drawing on me. I was having to borrow money from my mom to keep afloat until my second job kicked in.
damn 400 for rent...... :O
im in a tiny cabin and its over 800 a month :cry
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The only reason it was 400 for rent was because I was close friends with the owner of the house (who has now passed away....and have a**holes for children.). My rent is now 800 bucks a month...time to move.
ok so your costs arent $4000 but $6765, that makes a big difference. my apologies for questioning your honour.
It's fine. I just don't consider those repairs since I could go pick them up (if he would let me :/ ). :P
:salute
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The only reason it was 400 for rent was because I was close friends with the owner of the house (who has now passed away....and have a**holes for children.). My rent is now 800 bucks a month...time to move.
It's fine. I just don't consider those repairs since I could go pick them up (if he would let me :/ ). :P
:salute
hell 800 is cheap around here, and most places I am guessing.
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lol I'm from a smalllllll town haha.
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I had an employee total my work van one day. I only had liability on it as it was paid for. His insurance (with the same company as me) paid for the van. Did your friend have insurance at this point? If he wasn't then you wont get a settelment from the ins. co. Is there a police report that shows him driving the vehicle at the time of the accident. If there is then you can sue him for damages and any cost incured because of the accident and I mean all costs that you can prove reasonably. Now the part about the loan.....you owe him every penny. Now what will most likley happen if you go to court is it will be a near wash.
If he pays to have your truck fixed then you will owe him $6,500.00 dollars.
If you pay to fix the truck then you will have to pay him the remaing balance after repairs of the $6,500.00.
If you have the receipts for the tool box and misc stuff then you can add 50% of the value to your tab and remove it from the bill. If you don't have the reciepts then you can't prove it was ever there.
Simplest answer is to get a few repair bills to determine the cost of the repairs and send him a check for the difference.
Other than that you guys are just two kids screaming and pointing your fingers at each other.
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Marine, you still on active duty or in the reserves? Might want to talk to a JAG if you're still in. They usually know a decent amount of contract law...
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If he wrecked it, he's liable for the damages to the vehicle. Get that sorted out in court first. As far as the loan goes, you may want to look up the law on verbal contracts in your state.
This.............I was a Litigation Specialist for an insurance co (handling property claims) , in some states a verbal contract is binding, not sure about your state. In PA it is. Coupled with the proof that he wired you the money, an attorney will have a pretty strong case against you.
Regarding the repairs, that could swing either way. Ill tell you this though, it will cost you more in legal fees if you try and defend it(should he sue you with the assistance of a lawyer), or try and go after him for the repairs (should you hire one).
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The truck DID have insurance on it. Liability insurance. I was paying for the insurance while he drove it.
Don't accuse me in not having honor. I still open doors for people, pull the chair out for my lady, and have a FIRM belief in the Marine Corps Values. HONOR, COURAGE, COMMITMENT.
It's GREED on his end that he used my vehicle, totaled it out and then wants all of his money back. If that is O.K. can I come to YOUR house, Holmes; loan you $50, borrow your computer and set it on fire, then demand all of my money back? I bet not.
Idk if you missed it or not BUT - I offered to pay him THREE THOUSAND dollars IF he offered to help fix it. (NOT even PAY to help fix it - just put in TIME.). SO using YOUR math HE gets 3 grand and I get nothing but a huge repair bill.
Bah, if I give you my car and you total it, I don;t care if I owe you a million dollars. You are not getting paid until you fix my car first. What is so hard about it? He broke it, he needs to fix it and then ask for his loan money back. The two should be separate things.
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Why are you asking this on a gameing forum and not asking a local attorney instead ?
Only advice I could give is to never borrow or loan large amounts of money from "friends". Theres something about money that turns people evil.
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Why are you asking this on a gameing forum and not asking a local attorney instead ?
Exactly. You have a problem and it's just going to get worse by asking for advice from people that for the most part don't fully understand your situation or the laws in your area. Most in your situation will ask for advice until someone says what they want to hear and then follow that course, right or wrong (usually wrong).
Talk to a lawyer. They will tell you what you need to hear not what you want to hear. It might be the best $100 you've ever spent.
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Does the truck drive? Do you drive the truck?
Edit: Sounds like from a subsequent post it does not. Tell him to foot the repair bill for the accident he caused and then you will pay him $6500 dollars, which is still a rip off for you because you have to do the leg work to get it fixed and because parts that aren't necessarily "in need of repair" might have actually been slightly damage in the accident and there will likely be a future problem sooner than if there had been no accident at all.
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Marine, you still on active duty or in the reserves? Might want to talk to a JAG if you're still in. They usually know a decent amount of contract law...
Good advice.
Reaching way back to an undergrad course in contract law, it is all about making the parties whole. You need to pay him back the loan, and he needs to repair the truck.
If you all can't get an agreement, a court will probably recommend arbitration.
Good luck.
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......or find out what the current salvage value of the truck is....then pay him that.... :devil
The most expensive mistake he made!
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Good advice.
Reaching way back to an undergrad course in contract law, it is all about making the parties whole. You need to pay him back the loan, and he needs to repair the truck.
If you all can't get an agreement, a court will probably recommend arbitration.
Good luck.
I think it goes deeper than that... He may be entitled to any depreciation associated with the truck being in a major accident. Think CarFax.... A major accident can reduce the value of vehicle by as much as 20% at resale. Some courts have considered that to be part of the compensation.
Yes, he owes his former friend the $6500. And likewise, his friend, who failed to exercise due diligence when borrowing the truck, is fully responsible for the repair and to return everything in the vehicle at the time of the accident. Plus, a judge may find that the value of the truck has been diminished by the accident and award the difference as well (assuming evidence is presented to that being a fact).
Get several estimates, a court will likely allow any that is not grossly outside the average...
Next time, get everything in writing as to terms, conditions and stipulations. The problem you both face is that in the absence of documentation, a court must base a decision upon what can be established via preponderance of the evidence. You can prove that he was driving the truck and violated traffic regs, which led to the accident. He may be able to prove he gave you $6500, but without any paper, his argument isn't slam-dunk. As RufusLeaking said, this will probably end up in arbitration... However, you will have a small advantage walking in the door. I would not be surprised if it was decided that both walk away as is....
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little busy so I'll answer one of the questions (before I burn the house down :P ) - I asked here first because I hate dealing with lawyers at their office and the people who play AH are from all walks of life. Truckers, doctors, teachers, tattoo artist etc. This is a culture all in it's own. ;)
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Alright here is the situation:
When my friend was in Iraq he sent me a loan of $6500 to help me buy my car with the knowledge that when he got back home, he would get to use my truck to move and that I would pay him back. This is fine and dandy UNTIL the day he is bringing the truck home.
I'm at work and I suddenly get four calls in a row....I've already guessed what happened. Anyway, he says the he wrecked the truck and it is now considered "totaled" - though it wasn't.....
So now (a year later) I'm still stuck with a wrecked truck in my yard that I can't afford to fix, he won't give me the tool box or the stereo back that was in it (he took it out after the wreck so it wouldn't get stolen.), and now he is demanding I repay the loan.
I told him I would have offered to pay it if he hadn't or wrecked it and that I would have paid him $3000 if he offered to help put in the time to fix the truck (which he didn't do).
Fun stuff. Not only do I have to fix it on my own (insurance was only liability at the time), I have to pay to have it inspected as well.
Break it down outline style:
Friend loans money in exchange for use of truck and to be paid back.
Friend wrecks truck, doesn't pay to have it fixed.
Friend won't give back items that were in/on vehicle.
Friend demanding payment of loan after he totaled my vehicle.
So I guess the question is: Chances of which side winning in court are?
this is gonna sound cold.....but it is/was his responsibility to return that truck to you in the condition in which it was when he took possession of it.
if he's not willing to do this, then he is no friend.
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little busy so I'll answer one of the questions (before I burn the house down :P ) - I asked here first because I hate dealing with lawyers at their office and the people who play AH are from all walks of life. Truckers, doctors, teachers, tattoo artist etc. This is a culture all in it's own. ;)
you forgot JROTC nerds :D
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I did sleep at a holiday inn express last night.
One thing that seems to have been overlooked, is that the friend had possession of the truck and wrecked it, right? As such... his insurance should cover anything related to that, whether repairs or salvage value (and they can possibly be sued for damages, loss of whatever, blah blah)
Marine would still owe his friend the $6,500 (separate issue really, altho' as "friends" or more likely arbitrated, they might reach mutual agreement by combining the two issues.)
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A bad situation and hopefully some have learned a lesson.
Bottom line has been correctly posted before, if you borrowed the money, you owe the money. What you did with the money is irrelevant.
As it happens you purchased the truck with the money, separate issue.
the truck was wrecked, you have a wrecked truck. Inadequate insurance to pay for the damages is a lesson learned.
You may want to try and sue for the damages to the truck from negligence, problem is most courts limit small claims to $5k, check your county clerk and find out. Otherwise your going to civil court, attorneys, and related costs, probably cheaper to fix the truck on your own. Also, a judge may find issue with your claim in Small Claims court if you never discussed who was responsible for any damages to the truck should an accident happen while he was driving. From my experience with a car that was stolen from me and involved in a wreck, I was responsible for the repairs to my car, not the person who stole the vehicle.
It is a bad situation but not because of the actions of your friend, but from mutual initial trust involving a large amount of money.
IMO, you pay the money you owe, try small claims to recover what you can if you can get a judge to agree with you, learn from this and consider it what we call....."Stupid Tax". Believe me your not the first to learn this lesson.
Best of luck.
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You may want to try and sue for the damages to the truck from negligence, problem is most courts limit small claims to $5k, check your county clerk and find out. Otherwise your going to civil court, attorneys, and related costs, probably cheaper to fix the truck on your own. Also, a judge may find issue with your claim in Small Claims court if you never discussed who was responsible for any damages to the truck should an accident happen while he was driving. From my experience with a car that was stolen from me and involved in a wreck, I was responsible for the repairs to my car, not the person who stole the vehicle.
Establishing that his friend is responsible is easy in most states.... There's no need to discuss who will repair a loaned vehicle. It is assumed that the person borrowing the vehicle (or anything else) will exercise reasonable care. Reasonable care means a level or degree of caution and concern for the safety of himself, others and the property in his care that an ordinarily prudent and rational person would use in the circumstances. This is a subjective test of determining if a person is negligent, meaning he did not exercise reasonable care. Being cited for blowing a stop sign and getting T-boned in said intersection easily passes the test for determining that his friend was negligent. Negligence can result in all types of accidents causing physical and/or property damage. The friend is responsible for the damage to the truck.
Moreover, a thief is also responsible for damage. You can't get a judgement in criminal court, but you certainly can do so in civil court. The odds of ever collecting against that judgement are remote, and it's likely that you will have to foot the repair bill. However, that does not mean that you are responsible for the damage. Also, you can take a casualty or loss deduction on your Federal tax return and recover at least a percentage of the loss, but the monetary value of the loss must exceed 10% of your adjusted gross income and your loss was not covered by insurance. If your adjusted gross income is $40,000, then a loss of $4100 can be taken as a deduction (if you itemize your return). MarineUS, keep this in mind....
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Thanks guys. Lots of stuff to take into consideration. Just making sure I wasn't the only one going :huh :huh :huh :headscratch: . :)
I appreciate it.
:salute
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One thing that seems to have been overlooked, is that the friend had possession of the truck and wrecked it, right? As such... his insurance should cover anything related to that, whether repairs or salvage value (and they can possibly be sued for damages, loss of whatever, blah blah)
Yes check this out in my state insurance follows the driver. Doesn't matter what he is driving, legally the "driver" is the one insured. So if "he " has insurance then his insurance is liable especially if it was his fault, or he got a citation. You need to filed a claim against his insurance, lol that will frost his cookies.
File a report for theft against the stolen items, and then pay him his money back.
:salute
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Sorry if this has been covered previously, but if you only had liability then how did the vehicle end up "totaled"?
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That's what happened when the insurance people came to look at it (when he was still arguing it in court).
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That's what happened when the insurance people came to look at it (when he was still arguing it in court).
That still doesn't make sense. Did you receive a settlement from either his or the other drivers insurance and then buy the truck back from them? If not you don't need to worry about the added expense of an inspection and new title.
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Why are you asking this on a gameing forum and not asking a local attorney instead ?
Only advice I could give is to never borrow or loan large amounts of money from "friends". Theres something about money that turns people evil.
Because this is free and he is only asking so he can get an idea of what to expect? Some people may have been through something similar, you never know. I don't think he is going to go to go to court and tell the judge: "The guys at the BBS Said . . . . "
Why ask anything in this board then when you can always hire a professional to ask a question?
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Moreover, a thief is also responsible for damage. You can't get a judgement in criminal court, but you certainly can do so in civil court.
Wide the court said otherwise. The vehicle was stolen while we were in the theater, was involved in a wreck which killed one, injured 2 others. The car itself and the damages, in the judgement of the court, was my responsibility not the responsibility of the thief. Moreover, there was a hint that the thief's had a reasonable expectation that the car they stole would be safe for operation on the roadways; go figure (one tire was deemed marginal on wear). That judgement came in civil court, in Oklahoma County, Ok.
You can "try" anything in the courts but be prepared for the judgements not being what you expect, I personally know that. I never got a penny for the damages to the car awarded.
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I don't think he is going to go to go to court and tell the judge: "The guys at the BBS Said . . . . "
Why ask anything in this board then when you can always hire a professional to ask a question?
:rofl haha Thank you for the laugh. I needed that. :lol
Alright this is what has happened so far. When the truck was wrecked it was taken to an auto-body shop (more like complete junkyard.) and I was told that I could NOT get the truck out of the lot until the next day, so I waited. So, after waiting I go up there only to be told that I could not pick the truck up because in the police report my "friend" had said it was "his" truck.
He is stationed in NC so he couldn't get the truck (he had to leave the day the accident happened, which is why he was returning it.), and they wouldn't take his word over the phone to give it to me. This meant my truck was going to have to sit there for a week (which it did) and his insurance FINALLY kicked in but only paid the $1025 to get the truck out of the lot. I had my dad "drive" it home since they wouldn't tow it (they said it wouldn't even start....). He started it, put a come-along to hold the bed to the cab, put it in 4-Lo and let the front end pretty much pull the truck home.
So his insurance DID pay SOMETHING but did not cover any repairs, only enough to get it out of the "repair shop".
I've always hated that place as it is. They've been trying to buy my truck since I got it, I think they were doing what they could to make me just leave it. (They offered me $500 to let them keep it....).
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interesting, so his insurer has already taken some liability. you need to pursue recovery from his insurers. do you have any legal expenses cover with your home insurance?
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Hmmm, is the title in your name? Who cares what the police report say if you have the title? This is getting so confusing. With the title in your name, the cop filling the report should be in trouble for not checking the title. Your friend should be in trouble for lying to the police. The shop should be in trouble for holding your car against your will. Did the insurance pay the next day (that's kind of fast)?. In any case, by writing the check they admit fault. Sounds like you will need a team of lawyers to figure this mess out :lol
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:rofl haha Thank you for the laugh. I needed that. :lol
Alright this is what has happened so far. When the truck was wrecked it was taken to an auto-body shop (more like complete junkyard.) and I was told that I could NOT get the truck out of the lot until the next day, so I waited. So, after waiting I go up there only to be told that I could not pick the truck up because in the police report my "friend" had said it was "his" truck.
He is stationed in NC so he couldn't get the truck (he had to leave the day the accident happened, which is why he was returning it.), and they wouldn't take his word over the phone to give it to me. This meant my truck was going to have to sit there for a week (which it did) and his insurance FINALLY kicked in but only paid the $1025 to get the truck out of the lot. I had my dad "drive" it home since they wouldn't tow it (they said it wouldn't even start....). He started it, put a come-along to hold the bed to the cab, put it in 4-Lo and let the front end pretty much pull the truck home.
So his insurance DID pay SOMETHING but did not cover any repairs, only enough to get it out of the "repair shop".
I've always hated that place as it is. They've been trying to buy my truck since I got it, I think they were doing what they could to make me just leave it. (They offered me $500 to let them keep it....).
There are so many holes in this whole story it smells like Swiss cheese.
So, after waiting I go up there only to be told that I could not pick the truck up because in the police report my "friend" had said it was "his" truck.
He is stationed in NC so he couldn't get the truck (he had to leave the day the accident happened, which is why he was returning it.), and they wouldn't take his word over the phone to give it to me.
Are you kidding me ? ... it would take all of a nano-second to look at the tags/registration and your license to prove that the truck was not his ... unless of course the truck is registered in his name ?
This meant my truck was going to have to sit there for a week (which it did) and his insurance FINALLY kicked in but only paid the $1025 to get the truck out of the lot.
So now the truck sat at the Auto Body shop for a week and then magically they turn the truck over to you only after the storage fees have been paid and the question of who was the real owner of the vehicle still had not been established?
:headscratch: :confused:
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"There are so many holes in this whole story it smells like Swiss cheese."
True. Until you look at the story as two "Joe Dirt's" trying to frakk each other
over and then it makes some sense,
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"Why are you asking this on a gameing forum and not asking a local attorney instead ?"
Really.
It'd be like going here http://forum.freeadvice.com/auto-accidents-vehicle-claims-1/
and asking how to set-up your AH views on a Saitek joystick.
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There are so many holes in this whole story it smells like Swiss cheese.
Borrowing $6500 from a "friend" to buy a truck which you couldn't afford to pay for, or insure properly, is where it starts to smell like swiss cheese to me. The rest of it just smells bad.
If it's true then pay your "friend" his $6500 back. He lent it to you in good faith. It doesn't matter which way you slant this, he lent you $6500 you owe him 6500. The accident scenario is an entirely separate issue, which should be easily handled by your insurance company....you did have insurance didn't you?
2+2 sure does seem to add up to 5 around here lately.
RTR
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*face palm*
The truck was already paid for. That truck has been paid for. I paid for it in full when I bought it... It has ALWAYS had liability insurance. I don't drive often (only to work), I don't go out at night or on the weekends - I sit at home. I can't go anywhere without a ton of back pain.
He gave me 6500 to help me finish paying off my CAR. Truck does not = CAR....vice versa...
Let me break it down barney style.
1. I'm asking here because I (would at least like to think that most of you aren't a**holes 24/mf 7) tend to like the fellowship of this community. I'm asking here because like I ALREADY stated: People here come from all walks of life. How do YOU know that one of the people here isn't a lawyer? They just might be.
2. I asked him if he could loan me $6500 to help me finish paying off my car - he said yes if I let him use my truck for a month and paid him back.
3. I lent him the truck in (since everyone seems to be throwing this phrase around, let me remind you) "good faith" that he would bring it back undamaged, which he did not.
4. People in, Thomasville GA are crooks. The company owners of the body shop had previously tried to f**k me over on that truck before just so they could use it (they took it mud bogging to test the "4 wheel drive" to make sure they "fixed" it properly and they didn't even bother to wash it...or the gallons of paint that spilled in the back and ruined my rhino liner (which couldn't be replaced even with a life time warranty because I wasn't the owner of the truck when the rhino liner was put in.).
They were hoping I would give them the truck for, $500 which is probably why they wouldn't give me the paperwork. They knew he was in NC and on active duty which meant he would have an issue getting back. I'm assuming they were hoping the storage bill would just build up and I not be able to get it out.
5. I got the truck out because he came down from NC to dispute the ticket that week and I made him swing by and tell them to give me my truck before I burned their building to the ground. (At this point I'm ready to go to jail.)
6. His insurance company told the body shop it would be paid and then proceeded to pay it the following Monday, which they did.
7. After all of this; I asked him to help me fix the truck - no money needed, just time - and that I would pay him $3000 back and just take the rest as compensation for f**king my s**t up. He never got back to me, which in my mind is giving me the middle finger.
8. In short, the damage done to the truck and missing items that he has not returned outweigh the amount of money I owe him.
Good, God almighty.
Now answer me this - how is it that with all you intelligent fellers pointing the finger at me for insurance not remember that if I'm paying for a truck (or just recently paid it off) that I would NEED full coverage because BY LAW if you have a loan out on your vehicle you MUST have full coverage....
This is the O'Club, where I am allowed to talk about things not pertaining to AH....which means I wouldn't ask how to set up joystick functions here anyway....
If you want to be an arse - just PM me so I don't have to sort through the bullchit. :)
To those who have decided to not act like children, but rather put effort into guiding me in some sort: :salute
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EDIT: Just because I'm pissed off - Since I seem to not be allowed to speak about non AH related things in the O'club, those of you who are criticising me for posting this here - Don't post any videos that may be funny, pertain aircraft beyond 1945, pretty women born after 1945, do not post about something you witnessed that does not pertain to virtual aircraft, gv's or ships from World War Two, or show off your vehicles.
Those things do not have anything to do with this particular gaming "community".
It's funny when someone points the gun back at you, isn't it?
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Wide the court said otherwise. The vehicle was stolen while we were in the theater, was involved in a wreck which killed one, injured 2 others. The car itself and the damages, in the judgement of the court, was my responsibility not the responsibility of the thief. Moreover, there was a hint that the thief's had a reasonable expectation that the car they stole would be safe for operation on the roadways; go figure (one tire was deemed marginal on wear). That judgement came in civil court, in Oklahoma County, Ok.
You can "try" anything in the courts but be prepared for the judgements not being what you expect, I personally know that. I never got a penny for the damages to the car awarded.
Here's what most states, including Oklahoma follow (or is supposed to follow):
Crashed while Stolen: If your car is stolen, and the person who stole it causes an accident, it is unlikely that you will be held responsible for any damages to other people, or to property, but even if the thief is insured, you probably will have to pay for damages to your own car via your collision coverage. The average thief, however, isn't likely to have insurance, and even if they do, their insurance won't pay for an accident caused during a criminal act. There are exceptions that courts can consider, one being Contributory Negligence, where you leave the car unlocked, or the keys in the ignition. I suspect that the Judge in your case was of the opinion that your car should be repaired via your insurance policy. You were not going to get anything from the thief. However, that doesn't mean you were responsible, you were insured for just such an event.
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dood.....don't sweat it. there's always gonna be those looking for a conspiracy.
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dood.....don't sweat it. there's always gonna be those looking for a conspiracy.
:noid :rofl
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Im late to the party, but I would fight tooth and nail for him to pay the repair bills on the truck. He caused it, he should pay for it. If its all under the 6500 he loaned you, you pay him the difference, if its equal too or greater than he pays you nothing or the surplus. Just my. 02 on the matter.
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Im late to the party, but I would fight tooth and nail for him to pay the repair bills on the truck. He caused it, he should pay for it. If its all under the 6500 he loaned you, you pay him the difference, if its equal too or greater than he pays you nothing or the surplus. Just my. 02 on the matter.
This is what I was thinking.
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In any way, I would also take into strong consideration that the truck will never be the same truck ever again after being involved in a crash..
It might be fixed, working fine and all. But still it will never have the same value, and issues WILL come sneaking in on it later on. Be sure of it!
This really is a mess.. At first I thought you borrowed the $6500 to buy this truck, if that was the case "I" would have told my "friend" to come pick up the rest of it and call it the day.
But since this is not how this went down from the beginning, I would strongly advice you to go talk to a lawyer about this. Get the story straight first, so everything gets on the table.
You might have to pay back the $6500, but I also think you might have some rights to claim some $$$ back for the loss of your truck..
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I would strongly advice you to go talk to a lawyer about this. Get the story straight first, so everything gets on the table.
Best piece of advise right there.
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Keep it simple. Take him to court for the damages to the truck. The rest should be irrelevant to that case. If he does not want to figure something reasonable out about the loan, the truck, and the equipment, I'd take him to court and let him do the same about the loan witch he will lose unless you go in there and confirm that you were going to pay him back. With out paper work, it was a gift. If the gloves are off, they are off. If not, then see if you guys try to figure this out.
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Take him to court for the damages to the truck.
He's already accepted payment from the guy who was drivings insurance, once that's done isn't it pretty much a done deal legally as far as getting anything else?
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He's already accepted payment from the guy who was drivings insurance, once that's done isn't it pretty much a done deal legally as far as getting anything else?
Nop, if anything, they admit being at fault by making the payment. If I total your car and give you $10, is it legally over? The insurance company does not decide what you should get. Only what they should pay. You can always go to court for what ever you think you should get over that amount. Not saying you are going to win, but if you can prove the payment was not enough, you should win.
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Thanks guys. It's good to have some fresh thoughts/ideas on things. :salute
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Lets look at this from a logical point of view. First I have to assume that you have (had?) two vehicles.. a car and a truck. Your friend loaned you $6500 to buy the car with the agreement that you'd let him use your truck to move when he got home. So he gave you the money and you paid off the car. (I'm assuming the truck was already paid for)
Then when he got home he used your truck and wrecked it.
So here's the way I see it.. you still owe him the $6500 (or the remaining balance thereof). This does NOT CHANGE unless you have a written contract saying otherwise.
HOWEVER, since he was in possession of your truck when it was damaged (meaning he's responsible for it) he should OWE YOU the cost of replacing or repairing the truck. He has NO RIGHT to keep the radio or the tool box (you can probably report these to the police as stolen).
Now there may be some gray areas here... in other words if a verbal contract isn't binding where you live you may be able to weasel out of paying him back for the car loan.. but he also may be able to weasel out of paying you for the truck damages as well.
If you can't work this out then you two will need to settle this in court and this is probably how it's going to unfold:
1> He sues you for the $6500 (plus legal fees)
2> You counter sue him for the damages to the truck (and to the cost of the radio equipment and the toolbox and legal fees)
3> The judge will probably award him the difference of the two (or award you the difference if the truck and equipment is worth more than $6500)
If it were me I'd probably tell him where to shove it and wait for him to pursue legal action and take things from there
Now the fact that I think you're crazy for spending so much money on a tool box and audio equipment is irrelevant. Also the fact that I think you're crazy for borrowing such a substantial amount of money from a friend is irrelevant as well. All you can do is make this into a learning experience and try to leave friends out of your financial matters in the future.
Sounds like this may make a good episode of "People's court" haha
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The toolbox came with the truck :D
I got the radio when I was still living with my parents but that is how I figured it would play out. I'm no lawyer, but I'm not fool either. Just wanted to make sure I had my ducks in a row before I dove in. :)
:salute