Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: mthrockmor on September 01, 2011, 10:03:38 AM
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I am guessing I am not the first to ask about this. We have some sticks who insist the A-20 turns like a bi-plane. Maybe we should add the P-70 the flock. It is a fighter version of the A-20 with 20mms. I am not a historian so I'm sure better minds will correct but Wikipedia notes it was used in the Pacific though doesn't list how many kills were made. Here is the short description of this version:
P-70
In October 1940, the USAAC felt a need for long-range fighters more than attack bombers, so some of the production run of A-20s were converted to P-70 and P-70A night-fighters. They were equipped with SCR-540 radar (a copy of British AI Mk IV), the glazed nose often painted black to reduce glare and hide the details of the radar set, and had four 20 mm (.79 in) forward-firing cannon in a ventral bomb bay tray. Further P-70 variants were produced from A-20C, G and J variants. The singular airframe P-70B-1 (converted from an A-20G) and subsequent P-70B-2s (converted from A-20Gs and Js) had American centimetric radar (SCR-720 or SCR-729) fitted. The P-70s and P-70As saw combat only in the Pacific during World War II and only with the USAAF. The P-70B-1 and P-70B-2 aircraft never saw combat but served as night fighter aircrew trainers in the US in Florida and later in California. All P-70s were retired from service by 1945.
Thoughts?
Boo
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The P-70B-1 and P-70B-2 aircraft never saw combat but served as night fighter aircrew trainers in the US in Florida and later in California. All P-70s were retired from service by 1945.
There's your problem.
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dig deeper, p70 did serv in squad #s and allso have recorded kills
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dig deeper, p70 did serv in squad #s and allso have recorded kills
Ditto. Night fighter or not it deserves inclusion. :aok
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There's no night to fly it in anyway. If anything, a Ju88/Bf110 Night Fighter Variant would be a much better addition. We have enough American planes.
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I would prefer the P-61 first, add the Me-410 and Ju-87 tank buster as well.minus the P-61 the others are just mods of birds already in the stable. Should be easy?
Boo
PS I'll see if I can find kill numbers for the P-70.
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sooo...besides the radar gear and under fuselage quad 20mm gun pod, the performance is no different than the a-20g.
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There's no night to fly it in anyway. If anything, a Ju88/Bf110 Night Fighter Variant would be a much better addition. We have enough American planes.
Who died and made you Lord of AH?
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Who died and made you Lord of AH?
I did.
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If nightfighters were to be added, they should be German and British. You know, the two countries who fought a massive air war at night. Beaufighters, Mosquitoes, Bf110s, Me410s, Ju88s, He219s....
Sorry, but the OP's request is nothing more than "Lets get 20mm cannons on the A-20G" in disguise. There are plenty of quad 20mm fighters in the game right now if that is the most important criteria you have. If flying the A-20 is the most important criteria you have, then fly an A-20 and use its quad .50s.
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Who died and made you Lord of AH?
Apparently, Pig did. :lol
But on a serious note, with night in the MA removed, what's the point of night fighters? Besides FSO. And what benefits would they add over the current planes?
Night fighters were guided by radar to their target, in the MA, radar guides everyone. What would set the night fighters apart from the "day" fighters? Besides bigger guns and heavier equipment?
In FSOs, the Bf110s, F4Us, and Bf109s can all serve as replacements for night fighters without too much of a difference from the night fighter variant itself.
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dig deeper, p70 did serv in squad #s and allso have recorded kills
The P-70 was pretty much a failure, there is a reason why the vast majority only saw service as stateside trainers. Also, of the two detachments sent to the PTO (Detachments A and B), one of them (Detachment B) traded in most of their Nighthawks for P-38 by the time their tour was over. Detachment A kept their P-70s but due to the fact that their performance as so lacking that they were rarely able to intercept Japanese night intruders. The total number of kills associated with the P-70s is less than 4.
When Detachment B converted to the P-38, they kept a small number of P-70s for night intruder missions and used their P-38s for night fighter interceptions, only Detachment A kept their entire lot of P-70s and only accounted for a single successful night fighter interception. The majority of missions flown by the P-70 in combat were night intruder/bombing missions and not night fighter interceptions. There were two reasons for this, 1) the primitive radar used by the P-70 wasn't reliable above 20,000ft and 2) the P-70 was barely able to fly at 27,000 feet and the Japanese very quickly found out about this and would routinely come in at 30,000ft where the P-70 couldn't touch them.
I agree with Karnak. A wish for the P-70 is just another "Lets get 20mm cannons on the A-20G in disguise". If people really want the 20mm cannon variant then it would be a good idea to lobby HTC for a perked ordnance system to be put in place that would allow a player to select the 20mm option for the A-20G at the cost of some perks.
ack-ack
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Ya what AKAK said
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The Russians used the 20mm cannon option a fair bit not a lot of info except they did use them. Don't mistake the handling to be anything like the 50 cal A-20's.
So nose heavy it would be a very different animal.
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If nightfighters were to be added, they should be German and British. You know, the two countries who fought a massive air war at night. Beaufighters, Mosquitoes, Bf110s, Me410s, Ju88s, He219s....
I would argue for the P-61 as well, considering its significance as one of the first fighters designed specifically for carrying airborne radar (most of its predecessors were modified daytime aircraft) and seeing action in all theaters of the conflict.
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I would argue for the P-61 as well, considering its significance as one of the first fighters designed specifically for carrying airborne radar (most of its predecessors were modified daytime aircraft) and seeing action in all theaters of the conflict.
Sure, eventually, after the ones that actually did the fighting were added.
I'd also note that the P-61 may have been the first designed night fighter, but it still wasn't the best night fighter of WWII. It was very good, just too slow. In AH it would mostly be used as a ground attack aircraft.
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Sure, eventually, after the ones that actually did the fighting were added.
I'd also note that the P-61 may have been the first designed night fighter, but it still wasn't the best night fighter of WWII. It was very good, just too slow. In AH it would mostly be used as a ground attack aircraft.
Slow? not so sure about that :headscratch: but it could turn.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P-614-1.jpg)
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Slow? not so sure about that :headscratch: but it could turn.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P-614-1.jpg)
360mph is slow by that time of the war. That is 60-70mph slower than the contemporary Mosquito night fighter.
Yes, it could turn, but night fighting isn't about turning.
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That article settled it for me, eventually we need the P-61. The other planes to include the P-70, Stuka ground attack, etc should be pretty easy to come up with. We already have the base plane made, we are talking about adding a few twists and likely some perfomance changes. This should be relative easy computer programming modifications. I've long accepted that the P-61 is down the list of new planes but these others...
Boo
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The game definitely doesn't need a P-70, why would you want to add a plane that was basically a failure and only good as a training aircraft? Silly me...it's not the P-70 you really wish for, it's the 20mm cannons you want on the A-20G.
ack-ack
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360mph is slow by that time of the war. That is 60-70mph slower than the contemporary Mosquito night fighter.
Yes, it could turn, but night fighting isn't about turning.
True :aok It just seemed that 548th boys seemed to know that the P61 on the deck versus the P47n might have had them beat.
I guess they did not bother to find out after the Jug lost the first two parts of the wager.
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The game definitely doesn't need a P-70, why would you want to add a plane that was basically a failure and only good as a training aircraft? Silly me...it's not the P-70 you really wish for, it's the 20mm cannons you want on the A-20G.
ack-ack
please forgive the mortals akak, the "we want quad 20mm" was tryed many times and shot down due to lack of intrest.
perhaps the p-70 idea was a glimmer of hope for getting the cannons,ya never know.
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please forgive the mortals akak, the "we want quad 20mm" was tryed many times and shot down due to lack of intrest.
perhaps the p-70 idea was a glimmer of hope for getting the cannons,ya never know.
A glimmer of deceit I'd say.
As I said earlier, if the quad cannons are the most important thing to you there is a bevy of choices in AH already. For a few perk points it can even be American if you like. If flying the A-20 is the most important thing to you, well, suck it up and fly the A-20, not some rare fantasy version of it.
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If flying the A-20 is the most important thing to you, well, suck it up and fly the A-20, not some rare fantasy version of it.
Well said. It's been said before. It will no doubt be said again. I'm in agreement here.
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A glimmer of deceit I'd say.
As I said earlier, if the quad cannons are the most important thing to you there is a bevy of choices in AH already. For a few perk points it can even be American if you like. If flying the A-20 is the most important thing to you, well, suck it up and fly the A-20, not some rare fantasy version of it.
ouch.... you have put me in my place sir :salute i will for now, from this day forward, fly nothing but the all mighty mossy in your honor :joystick:
maybe some day, someone will come along and make a game that we can play, that lets us choose how we fly and what we do with our cartoon planes. :noid
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cobia38,
The question is, do you or do you not like the A-20G.
Based on these threads I'd have to say you would answer "yes" but mean "no, but I would if it had four 20mm cannons."
If you like the A-20G, fly it, enjoy it for being an A-20G and don't waste time wishing it were something it is not.
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I have to agree Cobia. Either you're flying the A-20G because of a deep rooted love of the plane itself (quite common in Aces High) or you are simply flying it as a means to an end. Whatever that means is, be it a specific performance level in a specific category, or the ability to sucker people in, whatever.
If you want 4x20mm as a means to an end, they already exist on other rides. Find out what else serves as your means to the end.
If you just love the A-20G, then you won't need 4x20mm on it because they don't belong anymore than 17,000lb bombloads belong on the B-17G, or Grand Slams belong on the Lancaster.
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lol karnak, i love many WW2 planes,A-20 is just one ;)
point of the matter is, x amount of quad 20 units came off the assembly line, so at some point in time there is no reason they cant be added
ohhhh and BTW i just like to pull your chain about the mossy ;)
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I have to agree Cobia. Either you're flying the A-20G because of a deep rooted love of the plane itself (quite common in Aces High) or you are simply flying it as a means to an end. Whatever that means is, be it a specific performance level in a specific category, or the ability to sucker people in, whatever.
If you want 4x20mm as a means to an end, they already exist on other rides. Find out what else serves as your means to the end.
If you just love the A-20G, then you won't need 4x20mm on it because they don't belong anymore than 17,000lb bombloads belong on the B-17G, or Grand Slams belong on the Lancaster.
want and need are 2 different things, i dont NEED them. but and option would be nice, even if it was perked.
we have alot of other cannon rides that we dont need if you want to think along your line of thought. C hog is one that comes to mind, in fact more A-20s came with 20mm then C hogs did.
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If you just love the A-20G, then you won't need 4x20mm on it because they don't belong anymore than 17,000lb bombloads belong on the B-17G, or Grand Slams belong on the Lancaster.
That's not entirely true, remember that the Soviets did receive and use in squadron strength the 20mm A-20G (200+ planes) in the ground attack role. It does have a place but not as a separate model but rather as an eventual perked ordnance package.
I'm not saying it's cobia's wish, I know his story about his being dropped on his head and when he came to, he had some bizarre fetish with the A-20G, just like my obsession with the P-38. I know he wants the 20mm package because the A-20G did have it and he would like to have the Havoc's line fleshed out, like how I would like to see the P-38 line fleshed out. However, the others that have wished for the 20mm guns are doing so because 1) it's cannons and it has 4 of them and 2) are under the false impression that the flying characteristics would be just like they were flying the .50 cal nose package and not realizing how sluggish it would be maneuvers, especially in the vertical.
ack-ack
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Deceipt?
It would seem that some of you spend a great deal of time here and live in a very small world, presuming all see what you see. If you don't like the P-70 thats great but to question someones integrity for raising it is a bit over the top. On the other hand the last 6 or 7 posts read like a bunch of semi-drunk, Englishmen having a good time. So enjoy yourselves on the whole '20mm' thing. Kind of fun to read.
Ultimately, I am guessing it would take about 2% of the effort to add some of these mods to existing birds of what it would to add a brand new one. In any case...touche!
Boo
PS Do a perked ord package and its all settled. Same for the Stuka bird.
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mthrockmor,
The problem is that without the perked ordnance system, adding the quad 20mm option to the A-20G would immediately make the vastly more common historically quad .50 A-20G almost extinct in AH.
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I would much rather have the P-61 Black Widow before this. :airplane:
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you know...a night fighter would be great....if we had night.