Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Shuffler on September 14, 2011, 01:49:20 PM
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This link is to pictures of Camaros and Mustangs that participated in our (H-Town Camaro Club) "Meeting Of The Enemies". It's all about fun, camaraderie and raising funds for nonprofit pet projects like the Texas Fire Fund. This was our second annual event. It is sponsored by Hooters.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3752393#post3752393 (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3752393#post3752393)
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Some of us like em both....we just like to pick on people. :devil
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Hennessey just finished up a HPE 1200. It is for a foreign customer. If the customer let's them hold it a couple of more weeks it will be at our Camaro Nationals. There are folks coming from all over the US for that event. It is our second year for this event.
BTW that Hennessey Camaro is 1200 HP at the crank twin turbo 427 LSX. :D
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wow major BBS hiccup
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Mustang is the best. camaro's come nowhere near close to a mustang for me.
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wow major BBS hiccup
yea...it was doin that to me quite a bit a few weeks back.
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Mustang is the best. camaro's come nowhere near close to a mustang for me.
although i like the mustangs better....and will soon be the proud owner of an 012 black on black brembo brake equipped gt, i do feel that they're fairly closely matched.
a friend bought an 010 camaro v6. he's promised to let me drive it next time i see him on base......i'll put up a report when i do.
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a friend bought an 010 camaro v6. he's promised to let me drive it next time i see him on base......i'll put up a report when i do.
wow...lucky :D
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Now that's what I call cool stuff right there.
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Sweet pics, thanks for the link.
CAP1 you are so lucky. From all I have read the 2012 GT is a monster in all respects. It has left the Challenger and the Camaro behind, but not for long I hope.
I am a Mustang owner but first I am a car nut. I hope GM and Chrysler take up the challenge thrown down by Ford.
Competition improves the breed.
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YEAH WELL the cammaro's make more power and are best off the line for a drag. but mustangs are fords idea to a musecle car and a street car.... so in a long race a mustang will most likely win.... but in a drag sorry but bow tie wins.. hands..down
but i want chevy to make the 442 again like. yeah.......yeah.....yeah... yeah....
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YEAH WELL the cammaro's make more power and are best off the line for a drag. but mustangs are fords idea to a musecle car and a street car.... so in a long race a mustang will most likely win.... but in a drag sorry but bow tie wins.. hands..down
but i want chevy to make the 442 again like. yeah.......yeah.....yeah... yeah....
motortrend(who seems to have hated american cars) reports a stock gt running 12.8, with 4.3 seconds 0-60. they report the camaero(which is a foreign car technically speaking) at 12.9 in the 1/4, and 4.5 0-60.
the mustangs only get better from there, as do the camaros. but the stang's still out front. :aok
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motortrend(who seems to have hated american cars) reports a stock gt running 12.8, with 4.3 seconds 0-60. they report the camaero(which is a foreign car technically speaking) at 12.9 in the 1/4, and 4.5 0-60.
the mustangs only get better from there, as do the camaros. but the stang's still out front. :aok
THIS!!!
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Don't be hating on the Camaro's they're great cars for women :)
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In the school parking lot there's a Green Camaro, and let me tell you its the greenest paint job i've ever seen on a car! its insane, really sexy car though but I prefer Mustangs, the 2011's make me drool :O
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my all-time favorite mustang is the 1971 Boss 351 mustang.
(http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i336/igotafro/boss-stang.jpg)
truly an amazing car. nothing can compare! :rock
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Im loving that redish purple T top Camaro!
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Sweet pics, thanks for the link.
CAP1 you are so lucky. From all I have read the 2012 GT is a monster in all respects. It has left the Challenger and the Camaro behind, but not for long I hope.
I am a Mustang owner but first I am a car nut. I hope GM and Chrysler take up the challenge thrown down by Ford.
Competition improves the breed.
Obviously mustang took up the challenge thrown down by camaro. The 2010 V6 camaro was putting down almost as much HP as the 2010 V8 mustang GT.
Now for 2012 the Camaro, LZ1
Here’s the latest salvo in the perpetual power and performance war: Chevy will top Ford’s 550-hp Shelby GT500 with a husky 580-hp—SAE-certified—supercharged and intercooled 6.2-liter V-8 when the Camaro ZL1 finally hits the street early next year as a 2012 model. To compensate for Ford’s cam and valve advantage, Chevy resorted to the classic expedient of an extra 0.8-liter of displacement over the Mustang's 5.4 liters, thereby achieving the upper hand in torque: 556 lb-ft at 4200 rpm versus the GT500’s 510 lb-ft at 4250 rpm. For the record, this new LSA small-block V-8 is the highest-caliber ammo ever loaded into any production Camaro by the factory.
Chevy’s evil intent goes beyond another volley at Ford. According to Camaro chief engineer Al Oppenheiser, the ZL1 also has supercar game in its sights. This street-legal, track-ready Camaro “has more power than a Ferrari 458 Italia, more torque than an Aston Martin DB9, and a power-to-weight ratio topping Porsche’s 911 Carrera GTS,” Oppenheiser crows.
While the LSA V-8 is a kid brother to the 556-hp engine that makes Cadillac’s CTS-V a genuine force to be reckoned with, engineering the Camaro ZL1 required much more than the usual underhood reboot. Before the dust settled, roughly one-third of the parts in the car were upgraded, replaced, or altered in some significant way. Unlike the aforementioned Shelby, this Chevy is ready to race around road courses or down the quarter-mile with no coolers, ducts, or special lubricants added by the owner. To satisfy both sort of racer, Chevy will offer the ZL1 with a choice of six-speed manual or automatic transmissions.
The ZL1’s visual distinctions are concentrated in the front. In addition to the humped and liberally ventilated hood, there’s a prominent splitter and a grille that’s opened up to usher in more engine and brake-cooling air. The belt-driven Eaton Twin Vortices Series (TVS) supercharger uses a pair of four-lobe rotors to deliver 1.9 liters of induction air per revolution. A massive filter supplies the blower with fresh air and the power steering has been changed to electric assist which consumes less engine power than hyrdaulic systems and eliminates the need for a belt-driven hydraulic pump cluttering the front of the engine.
A new Tremec TR-6060 MG9 six-speed transmission has a stronger output shaft, a more robust rear housing, and an additional mainshaft roller bearing to provide 30-percent more torque capacity than the manual transmission used in the Camaro SS. To improve shift quality, there are triple synchros in some gears and a revised linkage. A new dual-mass flywheel is bolted to a high-capacity twin-disc clutch.
The ZL1’s automatic is a Hydra-Matic 6L90 six-speed with additional clutch plates, a strengthened output shaft, and the extra planetary pinion gears needed to ensure survival in this trying assignment. The transmission is programmed with three operating modes. The normal Drive mode uses second-gear starts, quick upshifts in the interests of fuel economy, and temporary manual operation when a down-shift button is tapped or the lever is moved. The Sport mode ups the ante with first-gear starts, more aggressive gear changes, and shifts delayed to higher rpm. In Manual mode, there are no shifts until the driver commands one; gear changes are as fast as possible for maximum acceleration.
The ZL1’s rear axle includes a high-capacity cast-iron-case differential, massive asymmetrical half shafts, and extra-heavy-duty universal joints. To keep the lubricant temperature in line, there’s an oil-to-oil heat exchanger built into the bottom of the differential. Transmission fluid circulates through that heat exchanger and through the radiator to drop operating temps by more than 100 degrees Fahrenheit. In addition, the engine is fitted with the same oil-to-coolant heat exchanger used in the Corvette ZR1. Instead of the Corvette’s elaborate dry-sump lubrication system, the ZL1 has a deeper oil pan, a longer pickup, and a higher-capacity pump.
All chassis calibrations received their fair share of attention. Brembo calipers with six pistons per wheel in front and four pistons per wheel in back handle stopping. A duct system delivers air from the grille to the hard-working rotors. The 20-inch forged-aluminum wheels are fitted with second-generation Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar radials (285/35ZR-20 in front, 305/35ZR-20 in back). Damping is provided by Magnetic Ride Control units similar to those that Cadillac and Corvette have long used. Varying the current in electromagnetic coils alters the manner by which iron particles held in a synthetic fluid resist wheel and body motion. Now in its third design iteration, this system can sense the need for a damping correction 1000 times per second and make that change in only five milliseconds.
Another notable gift bestowed upon the Camaro is the use of the Performance Traction Management (PTM) system originally engineered for the Corvette ZR1. In addition to modulating engine torque for optimum launch performance in manual-equipped ZL1s, PTM also varies the traction control and suspension damping as needed. The five available modes are for wet, dry, sport with or without stability control, and race-driving conditions. Another Corvette hand-me-down is an active exhaust system that bypasses the more restrictive muffler passages during wide-open-throttle driving.
Development is not yet complete, so there are no weight, acceleration, top-speed, or gas-mileage figures to share. Nor has any pricing strategy been announced, but plan on paying a gas-guzzler tax if this Camaro is on your shopping list. Considering that the base price on Ford’s Shelby GT500 is $49,605, Chevy isn’t likely to charge less than $50K for this beast.
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If the customer let's them hold it a couple of more weeks it will be at our Camaro Nationals. There are folks coming from all over the US for that event. It is our second year for this event.
That in Houston? haven't heard about it but would bring mine out.
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last line on shuff's post......
base price of around $47,000 when it goes on sale next February. With the top-spec Camaro boasting an estimated 0-to-60-mph time of four seconds and hardware essentially swiped from the $64,340 Cadillac CTS-V, including its supercharged V-8 and adaptive magnetorheological shocks, a base price of under $50,000 seems like a pretty damn good deal. It’s unknown at this point whether the ZL1 price will include a gas-guzzler tax—it’s possible, since the CTS-V sticker includes a $1300 penalty—so you might want to budget for $48,500 or so when it’s time to sign on the dotted line. For comparison, the car’s natural arch rival, the Ford Mustang Shelby GT500, costs $49,495, and it doesn’t get hit with a thirst tariff.
from....http://blog.caranddriver.com/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-base-price-around-47000/
i'm sure the shelby'll handle it. :devil
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Shuff sat in my first new camaro today,they had 1 at the fair on display so I helped myself to a seat. I liked the driving position and layout but found that it was near impossible to see out the back without the side mirrors,a shame too because I imagine you'd want to see the other guys headlights shining in the back window!! :rofl :rofl :rofl That Zl1 sounds like a beast but up here I'd need 4 wheel drive.
:salute
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Visibility is a big drawback for the Camaro. All the reviews I read and watched on the tube mention it.
I have yet to sit in a new Camaro.
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Shuff sat in my first new camaro today,they had 1 at the fair on display so I helped myself to a seat. I liked the driving position and layout but found that it was near impossible to see out the back without the side mirrors,a shame too because I imagine you'd want to see the other guys headlights shining in the back window!! :rofl :rofl :rofl That Zl1 sounds like a beast but up here I'd need 4 wheel drive.
:salute
you don't need to see out the back because the other cars are in front of you :)
*Sorry Shuff that was just too easy not to spike ;)
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Visibility is a big drawback for the Camaro. All the reviews I read and watched on the tube mention it.
I have yet to sit in a new Camaro.
same here.
although i didn't drive my friends as yet, i was sitting in the drivers seat. the windshield looks like looking through a small slit of glass. most likely due to the rake.
the seat was VERY comfortable. i liked the way it felt like it kind of "hugged" me in position. i wasn't too fond of the steering wheel setup. the shifter was in a nice position, and although his is a 6 banger, it has the rally pack(i think that's what chevy calls it) of 4 gauges down on the center console just in front of the shifter, much like the 69 z's. i like those a LOT.
seeing out the side windows wasn't happening too well, and the back window may as well have not been there.
he's already put flowmasters on it, and it sounds friggin GREAT. when he popped the hood for me to look underneath, i was kinda surprised at how much room's under there. his, being a 2010, still has belt driven power steering.(i noted that shuff;s post said the zl1 goes to electric power assist).
to be honest, this car looks a LOT better up close, than it does going down the road. as you approach it, the lines come out. from a distance, it's hard to see some of them. i still can't stand the back end of these. the tail lights look like the designer had an "oops" moment, and forgot to put tail lights in it, and grabbed the first thing he saw on the shelf.....those being pseudo corvette lights. they don't look right back there.
that's ok though, as i'll not have much worry of ever seeing one from that angle. :devil :joystick:
as i said, when i get to drive it, i'll put something up here.
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you don't need to see out the back because the other cars are in front of you :)
*Sorry Shuff that was just too easy not to spike ;)
badump BUMP! :devil
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hhmm....i had thought hennesy only worked with chevys......looks like they do fords too......
http://www.muscularmustangs.com/2011/news0575_hennessey_boss_302_packages.php
although, there's another shop, i think they're local, that got nearly 800hp from a boss302 with only the addition of an intercooled supercharger.
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That in Houston? haven't heard about it but would bring mine out.
Yes it is on the west side.
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same here.
although i didn't drive my friends as yet, i was sitting in the drivers seat. the windshield looks like looking through a small slit of glass. most likely due to the rake.
the seat was VERY comfortable. i liked the way it felt like it kind of "hugged" me in position. i wasn't too fond of the steering wheel setup. the shifter was in a nice position, and although his is a 6 banger, it has the rally pack(i think that's what chevy calls it) of 4 gauges down on the center console just in front of the shifter, much like the 69 z's. i like those a LOT.
seeing out the side windows wasn't happening too well, and the back window may as well have not been there.
he's already put flowmasters on it, and it sounds friggin GREAT. when he popped the hood for me to look underneath, i was kinda surprised at how much room's under there. his, being a 2010, still has belt driven power steering.(i noted that shuff;s post said the zl1 goes to electric power assist).
to be honest, this car looks a LOT better up close, than it does going down the road. as you approach it, the lines come out. from a distance, it's hard to see some of them. i still can't stand the back end of these. the tail lights look like the designer had an "oops" moment, and forgot to put tail lights in it, and grabbed the first thing he saw on the shelf.....those being pseudo corvette lights. they don't look right back there.
that's ok though, as i'll not have much worry of ever seeing one from that angle. :devil :joystick:
as i said, when i get to drive it, i'll put something up here.
You better get used to the back of a camaro as your going to see that a lot. I know your all excited about a couple of HP and your stang.
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Don't be hating on the Camaro's they're great cars for women :)
I thought all cars were for women... :neener:
(http://mobi-wall.brothersoft.com/files/480320/c/12817171489259.jpg)
Now this on the other hand :joystick:
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My first car was a black 77 camaro. It was a dog, but looks good. Second car was a 10th 79 Trans am. Then about 19 years later, I bought a new white 97 Formula. Never owned a mustang, but many of my friends had some very fast stangs.
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You better get used to the back of a camaro as your going to see that a lot. I know your all excited about a couple of HP and your stang.
....it will still come down to the person driving. :aok
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motortrend(who seems to have hated american cars) reports a stock gt running 12.8, with 4.3 seconds 0-60. they report the camaero(which is a foreign car technically speaking) at 12.9 in the 1/4, and 4.5 0-60.
the mustangs only get better from there, as do the camaros. but the stang's still out front. :aok
thats funny becasue i went to a drag race last weekend and it was a new mustang VS a new camaro and the bow tie won by at least 1 1/2 car length's. and out of 5 races mustang almost won but never did.
also who say's the camaro is a foreign car?! thats like saying japan won ww2...
i would love this sorce where you got this "camaro is a foreign car" :)
plus you can have the head and cylinder's out of a camaro rather easy.. mustang not so much....
oh and all you guys hating on GM let me point to your lovely GM made alison engine's in your 38's and your P&W engine in you hogs and jugs that where made by GM during the war :banana:
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also who say's the camaro is a foreign car?! thats like saying japan won ww2...
i would love this sorce where you got this "camaro is a foreign car" :)
plus you can have the head and cylinder's out of a camaro rather easy.. mustang not so much....
Um. Where do you think
Can
America
Make
A
Real
One
came from?
You see, there is this number "2" at the start of the VIN of every Camaro built from 1993. They are made in Canada, so technically, they are Foreign made. The last Camaro to roll off of the Van Nuys line was in 1992.
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You better get used to the back of a camaro as your going to see that a lot. I know your all excited about a couple of HP and your stang.
in these instances, hp means nothing, as long as you've got some.
at 48k, the chances of me running into a zl1 will be as great as me running into a gt500. very slim. :aok
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My first car was a black 77 camaro. It was a dog, but looks good. Second car was a 10th 79 Trans am. Then about 19 years later, I bought a new white 97 Formula. Never owned a mustang, but many of my friends had some very fast stangs.
pretty much everything in the 70's were dogs. i mean, c'mon....they bragged about 175hp back then. :aok
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....it will still come down to the person driving. :aok
correct....and although i am not the greatest driver(by the lawbooks anyway) i can, and generally do out drive most people. :devil
this car i'm getting is probably gonna force me to start checking out some performance driving schools......
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Um. Where do you think
Can
America
Make
A
Real
One
came from?
You see, there is this number "2" at the start of the VIN of every Camaro built from 1993. They are made in Canada, so technically, they are Foreign made. The last Camaro to roll off of the Van Nuys line was in 1992.
correct....also, don't forget that they're designed by holden....an Australian company.
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thats funny becasue i went to a drag race last weekend and it was a new mustang VS a new camaro and the bow tie won by at least 1 1/2 car length's. and out of 5 races mustang almost won but never did.
also who say's the camaro is a foreign car?! thats like saying japan won ww2...
i would love this sorce where you got this "camaro is a foreign car" :)
plus you can have the head and cylinder's out of a camaro rather easy.. mustang not so much....
oh and all you guys hating on GM let me point to your lovely GM made alison engine's in your 38's and your P&W engine in you hogs and jugs that where made by GM during the war :banana:
designed by holden, built in canada. it is something that should never have happened. they should never have taken the camaro out of america.
you don't NEED to have the heads off of the ford engines. these engines will support nearly 800hp on the stock block.
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in these instances, hp means nothing, as long as you've got some.
at 48k, the chances of me running into a zl1 will be as great as me running into a gt500. very slim. :aok
We'll have 6 in the Club pretty quick after shipping starts. Not all dealerships get one.
In your GT your competition is the SS.
I saw in an earlier post you mentioned Brembo'd Mustang..... are they not standard on the GT? The SS has them standard.
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We'll have 6 in the Club pretty quick after shipping starts. Not all dealerships get one.
In your GT your competition is the SS.
correct.....which is neck and neck....which means that as masher said, it will/does come down to the driver.
in those pictures, i REALLY liked the one with the t-tops.
hey....you wanna see a REALLY cool/groovy color? go get a pair of uv dye glasses, or even just the yellow shooting glasses, and check out your daughters car with them on.
there's one of those like hers driving around here. i had my safety glasses on the other day when he pulled in for gas......the yellow makes that look waaaaay cool.
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pretty much everything in the 70's were dogs. i mean, c'mon....they bragged about 175hp back then. :aok
I doubt the 77 had that much hp.
My dad bought a new 65 GTO when I was 3. It was my mom's car, and I remember heading down the road, while standing up in the front seat looking around. :O
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correct.....which is neck and neck....which means that as masher said, it will/does come down to the driver.
in those pictures, i REALLY liked the one with the t-tops.
hey....you wanna see a REALLY cool/groovy color? go get a pair of uv dye glasses, or even just the yellow shooting glasses, and check out your daughters car with them on.
there's one of those like hers driving around here. i had my safety glasses on the other day when he pulled in for gas......the yellow makes that look waaaaay cool.
Probably because of the gold in the color.
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designed by holden, built in canada. it is something that should never have happened. they should never have taken the camaro out of america.
you don't NEED to have the heads off of the ford engines. these engines will support nearly 800hp on the stock block.
no matter how good your engine is. it will fail, or it will need upgrade if a mustang comes 800hp STOCK BLOCK
then it must smoke my dads 72, 442 with a 680hp engine running low high 9's all day long with stock shocks and frame and is a little bit heavyer than stock so yeah
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We'll have 6 in the Club pretty quick after shipping starts. Not all dealerships get one.
In your GT your competition is the SS.
I saw in an earlier post you mentioned Brembo'd Mustang..... are they not standard on the GT? The SS has them standard.
somehow, i missed the last line when i read this post before.
the brembo's aren't standard on the gt. in fact, the one i test drove didn't have them, but rather it had the standard 4 wheel disc brakes. to be honest, that stopped well enough, that it could nearly plant your eyeballs on the inside of the windshield. :x
in my case, i wanted the extra stopping power, and durability, as this car will find itself on road courses here and there, and probably parking lot autocrosses....so i don't want fading brakes.
i'll probably look into seeing if i can add the cooling ducts that come on the boss302's to my car, for both front and rear brakes.
besides the brakes and rotors themselves, the suspension is set up a bit more aggressively than the non-brembo'd gt, and i believe the computer is tuned slightly differently too, although i'm not sure about the computer.
i've already got a ramair hood picked out for it...it resembles an old shelby hood, and will seal to the air intake box. on my 89 that's been pictured in threads here, an under-bumper ram air setup was worth an entire half second in the quarter mile. i'll be doing more than drag racing....but i want that cold air in the engine anyway.
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I doubt the 77 had that much hp.
My dad bought a new 65 GTO when I was 3. It was my mom's car, and I remember heading down the road, while standing up in the front seat looking around. :O
nothing in 77 had any noteworthy horsepower. i think my briggs and stratton powered generator makes more power than a mustang cobra, or a camaro z28 from 77. :bolt: :rofl
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no matter how good your engine is. it will fail, or it will need upgrade if a mustang comes 800hp STOCK BLOCK
then it must smoke my dads 72, 442 with a 680hp engine running low high 9's all day long with stock shocks and frame and is a little bit heavyer than stock so yeah
gt500 super snake. 750hp standard, off of a supercharged 5.4L. 800hp optional. if you google 5.0 mustangs and super fords, boss302 supercharger, you'll find a 2012 boss302 with a kenne bell aftermarket supercharger added. 710/553 hp/torque at the tires. on an otherwise stock engine.
the ford 4.6/5.0/5.4 liter engines are not "V" engines. they are "Y" blocks. they have cross bolted mains. they are very strong engine designs. i've not seen a good technical picture of a 5 liter as yet, but i have of the 4.6 liter. i've been fairly far inside of a 4.6 liter as a matter of fact.
these engines very closley resemble the old 427 cammers that ford used to build.
as for your dads olds running low 9's on only 680hp? how much weight did he trim out of it? our shop camaro was pushing 650hp, and would only run 9.9's. with me in it, it weighed in the mid 2600 pound range. i forget the exact amount. i can't see only 30 more hp taking a 3500(i think?) pound car nearly a full second faster. hell....if we could afford to put it on the track now, we've got a 540 dyno's to 820hp, and we're only expecting low 9's high 8's.
as for my engine failing........when that time comes, then i'll worry about it. you should look into what ford's doing though. they'd surprise ya. :aok
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nothing in 77 had any noteworthy horsepower. i think my briggs and stratton powered generator makes more power than a mustang cobra, or a camaro z28 from 77. :bolt: :rofl
Ohhhh I had a 77 Cutlass that had a noteworthy bit of HP. Granted it wasn't stock. It just looked like it was :devil
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Ohhhh I had a 77 Cutlass that had a noteworthy bit of HP. Granted it wasn't stock. It just looked like it was :devil
oh? so what you're saying, is that you had 17hp, rather than 12hp? :devil :rock
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Oh just a tad more than that sir.
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Oh just a tad more than that sir.
oohh allright..........23.89765578 9hp to the tires. :bolt:
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nothing in 77 had any noteworthy horsepower. i think my briggs and stratton powered generator makes more power than a mustang cobra, or a camaro z28 from 77. :bolt: :rofl
The re-born 77 z28 with decal hood scoop? lol
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The re-born 77 z28 with decal hood scoop? lol
:rofl
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The re-born 77 z28 with decal hood scoop? lol
yea....the one that when you watched it racing a cobra with it's screamingingly powerful 302, rated at a whopping 150hp, looked more like a slow race, than a drag race. :noid todays mopeds are faster. the local indians riding their bicycles to work are faster.
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We'll have 6 in the Club pretty quick after shipping starts. Not all dealerships get one.
In your GT your competition is the SS.
I saw in an earlier post you mentioned Brembo'd Mustang..... are they not standard on the GT? The SS has them standard.
The Brembo Package doesn't just deal with the brakes. The GT only needs 5.0L's for besting the higher CI SS on the track. Maybe next year...... :devil
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The Brembo Package doesn't just deal with the brakes. The GT only needs 5.0L's for besting the higher CI SS on the track. Maybe next year...... :devil
last race of this season in the cont. tire challenge......bmw won the race. fords were 2, 8, 9, and 10. there was a chevy in 7th. the rest were beemers. i can't find anything yet to see if that was enough for bmw to hold onto the manufucturers championship or not.
and yea....some on here should look into the ford engines....they're not v's...they're y blocks. :aok