Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: BB Gun on September 20, 2011, 10:55:23 AM
-
As a Warbirds vet, I'm having trouble with shooting ranges. I am used to shooting d2 to d4 in WB which is 600 to 1200 feet. Yet in AH I am finding that I don't shoot until 400-ish. Planes simply look small? When do you all shoot?
BB
-
BB,
This was a well known problem between AH and WB. The visuals are different and to get similar visuals when firing you can use the 'z' key to zoom in. This will give you a similar aspect ratio/ sight picture to what you had in WB but you will loose a lot of your peripheral vision while zoomed.
when doing BnZ i shoot from d6 to d3 and when TnB i shoot from d4 to d2. With, my current, crappy stick i have too much dead zone to try and shoot closer.
shdo
-
I have all guns set at 300 convergence and try to shoot at that range....devastating when you hit at convergence :rock
-
also, I don't remember that WB was d2 ( d4 ) as being mesuared in feet, anyways it is not in feet in Aces high, it is mesuared in yards
your convergence is going to be user preference.... some like setting them 200 yrds/ 275 yrds / 300 yrds
I prefer 350 yrds for every plane
now, while doing some practice/work with shane in the DA.... he did relay some logic to me, that I had never considered
when dueling, you and your opponent are most times in so close that it is wize to bring your convergence in to under 300 , preferably around 200 to 250 convg. since you are basically in a knife fight
to where as when you fly in the MA's you would normally not be taking up close crossing shots, and would be better off with your convergence set out just a little further
hope this helps
TC
-
I have all guns set at 300 convergence and try to shoot at that range....devastating when you hit at convergence :rock
^This is my method also
-
^This is my method also
I generally use between 325-350 - basically I fly to ram and snap a shot off, few FSO's ago I had my Hurri-1 converg set to 300 and sawwed off 11 planes with barely any ammo at all, I try to stress its easier to hit a plane at a high deflection shot rather then strictly behind them.
-
The way the round will drop over a distace should also be considered.
Am not sure how much but I know the 50cal is one of the better rounds
and the A6m2's 20mm is one of the "not so good ones"..
Using the same gun for while will get you used to it's own characteristics.
If you are in level flight and have set convergence to say, D300. Then fire at a
target which is D200, the round will land high, if at all.
Ranging the shot can be hard when banked and even harder when pulling G's
I was told to unload the airframe before making the shot...if you can.
I'm a crappy shot anyways but going off line and using the "lead computing gunsight" on the drone
will help you get a mental picture of the correct place to put your pipper
I'm sure a someone will post a better explanation than this
Klam
-
:old: personally i just push the barrel really hard against the flesh, i really dig that back splatter thing that you get when the muzzle blast enters the skull cavaty and pops it from the inside like a.......... :headscratch: :headscratch:
oops, :huh is this executioners weekly digest????? no?! :O ummmmm nevermind :bolt:
-
The way the round will drop over a distace should also be considered.
Am not sure how much but I know the 50cal is one of the better rounds
and the A6m2's 20mm is one of the "not so good ones"..
Using the same gun for while will get you used to it's own characteristics.
If you are in level flight and have set convergence to say, D300. Then fire at a
target which is D200, the round will land high, if at all.
Ranging the shot can be hard when banked and even harder when pulling G's
I was told to unload the airframe before making the shot...if you can.
I'm a crappy shot anyways but going off line and using the "lead computing gunsight" on the drone
will help you get a mental picture of the correct place to put your pipper
I'm sure a someone will post a better explanation than this
Klam
Please elaborate upon this statement...
-
Please elaborate upon this statement...
I think he's talking about the ballistics characteristics. Laser-like .50cal versus tennis-ball-like Japanese cannon.
Another thing about convergence and shooting "in range"...
When the enemy icon switches from D800 to D600, he's at D700. When it moves from D600 to D400, he's at D500. Etc., etc. So if you have your convergence at 300, wait until the icon changes from D400 to D200 and he'll be at 300 yards.
-
:old: personally i just push the barrel really hard against the flesh, i really dig that back splatter thing that you get when the muzzle blast enters the skull cavaty and pops it from the inside like a.......... :headscratch: :headscratch:
oops, :huh is this executioners weekly digest????? no?! :O ummmmm nevermind :bolt:
:rofl
-
The way the round will drop over a distace should also be considered.
Am not sure how much but I know the 50cal is one of the better rounds
and the A6m2's 20mm is one of the "not so good ones"..
Using the same gun for while will get you used to it's own characteristics.
If you are in level flight and have set convergence to say, D300. Then fire at a
target which is D200, the round will land high, if at all.
Ranging the shot can be hard when banked and even harder when pulling G's
I was told to unload the airframe before making the shot...if you can.
I'm a crappy shot anyways but going off line and using the "lead computing gunsight" on the drone
will help you get a mental picture of the correct place to put your pipper
I'm sure a someone will post a better explanation than this
Klam
Actually Klam you are mistaken,if you set convergence to 300 and shoot at a target at 200 the rounds will be low,not high! the rounds come up to piper at convergence and never rise above the line of sight.Also the 20mm cannon on the zero may not have the best trajectory but if the rounds hit they do plenty of damage.
:salute
-
Even though I have no troubles with shots beyond 600 yards, I tend to hold my fire until the bandit is within 400 or less yards. At these close ranges not much can survive a single shotgun like burst from a P-38.
ack-ack
-
300 or less. The closer you get the more satisfying the result! :aok
-
Actually Klam you are mistaken,if you set convergence to 300 and shoot at a target at 200 the rounds will be low,not high! the rounds come up to piper at convergence and never rise above the line of sight.
:salute
...Are you talking about in the specific instance he's describing, or in general? If you're talking about in general, rounds can go well above the pipper with certain convergence settings and certain guns. The easiest one to see it with is the 30mm on the K4. Set it to 500 convergence. It will shoot low out to around 100-150 yards, then will rise above LOS, in the 350 range, then drop back down to the pipper at 500. To combat this, I think my convergence is set around 225-250 on the 30mm. This makes its arc close enough to on the pipper for me out to about 400, with noticable drop at 500. Not that I shoot at that range unless it's a nonmaneuvering guy trying to run.
Another thing about convergence and shooting "in range"...
When the enemy icon switches from D800 to D600, he's at D700. When it moves from D600 to D400, he's at D500. Etc., etc. So if you have your convergence at 300, wait until the icon changes from D400 to D200 and he'll be at 300 yards.
Just wanted to reinforce this as I was going to mention it as a fairly major difference between here and WBs. In WBs, when it went from 500 to 400, it meant he'd crossed to within 400 yards. In here, when it goes from 600 to 400, it means he's crossed the 500 yard line. It's a bit of a different way of looking at it here. When I first came over, I expended a lot of ammo at guys whose icons said 600 or 800, not realizing I was shooting 700-900 out.
As to convergence, on .50 and 20mm equipped planes, I stick with 450 yards as my convergence. I do most of my shooting inside of that distance, but I like the versatility it gives me. If someone's not maneuvering at 600 yards I can still put a decent volume of fire on him without trajectory coming into play too much, and if they're pulling away at 400, if I hit them I hit at convergence. My bullets are a bit diffuse inside that range, but I find it to be good enough.
The one thing I suggest is, try a setting and stick with it for a while (couple weeks at least) so you can give your brain time to get used to the sight picture in different circumstances at that convergence. IMO one of the worst things you can do for your gunnery is to constantly be fiddling with your convergence.
For guys that aren't maneuvering much trying to run, I use the zoom feature to get right in on top of them. As soon as they start to wiggle though I return to default FOV. I find zoom messes with my ability to lead them effectively in a hard maneuver.
Wiley.
-
Wiley,I was talking about ingame,I realize how balistics work in the RL but in AH you are mistaken like Klam,test out the .target set conv. to 600 and see if you can get the round to hit above your aim point at any distance!
Bustr did some testing and his results concur with this.
:salute
-
Ah-hah - two pieces of info:
Also, I don't remember that WB was d2 ( d4 ) as being mesuared in feet, anyways it is not in feet in Aces high, it is mesuared in yards
I was backwards, I thought WB was hundreds of yards and AH was in feet. Now that I know that AH is in yards, things make a bit more sense.
In WBs, when it went from 500 to 400, it meant he'd crossed to within 400 yards. In here, when it goes from 600 to 400, it means he's crossed the 500 yard line.
That is something else I didn't quite grasp while dealing with the slightly different controls and visuals and flight model.
Those two pieces of info explain my, while not difficulty, difference in perception of how things are. Now I can adjust accordingly.
Thanks, all!
BB
-
Wiley,I was talking about ingame,I realize how balistics work in the RL but in AH you are mistaken like Klam,test out the .target set conv. to 600 and see if you can get the round to hit above your aim point at any distance!
Bustr did some testing and his results concur with this.
:salute
I just did this in offline mode, upped a 109K4 with convergence to 650, target 300, fired a burst and took this SS without moving the pipper.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiley284/6167658875/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiley284/6167658875/)
Wiley.
-
Even though I have no troubles with shots beyond 600 yards, I tend to hold my fire until the bandit is within 400 or less yards. At these close ranges not much can survive a single shotgun like burst from a P-38.
ack-ack
curse you and your blender!!! :furious
but when im normally flying my jug i tend to shoot around 500 and actually care where im aiming at 350/300. i have my guns set to 475 but if i get close enough i can just saw both the wings off.
-
Wiley,I was talking about ingame,I realize how balistics work in the RL but in AH you are mistaken like Klam,test out the .target set conv. to 600 and see if you can get the round to hit above your aim point at any distance!
Bustr did some testing and his results concur with this.
:salute
It's kind of counter-intuitive, but setting your convergence way out there makes it less likely that your rounds will ever go above your LoS. Setting the convergence in close though, practically assures they will.
The rounds will lift above the LoS, depending on what your convergence is set at, whether you're using wing-mounts or nose-mounts, and how far above the guns the pilots LoS is. Setting the convergence in close will actually allow your rounds to go up as high as 10ft above LoS with wing-mounts, much less-so with nose-mounts.
Setting it to 600 will bring it above LoS with nose-mounts, but not with wing-mounts.
I was skeptical at first, but actually found AH ballistics to be about as close to RL as possible.
In answer to the OP's question... I set mine for 275-300 yards, and fire when I see the distance-counter switch from D400 to D200, which (as previously stated) is actually at 300 yards.
-
It really does depend on the plane and the gun set for me. I prefer to open up at 300 or less in general, but some guns have such tricky ballistics that it's better to open up at 200 or less. Read up on individual planes and/or guns in the wiki to give you a better idea.
-
My aim is really, really bad. So I try to apply the advice of a ww2 pilot of old, which of course I dont remember the name : wait for your target to fill the visor, then wait some more. Convergence 275. I open up when dist change to 200. That close, lead and drop are almost no factor and you can be sure that most plane will require only a small burst from any gun set to go down.
:salute
-
i set mine at 250 in everything. i can't hit anything at any other setting. just what i've become used to i guess. i suppose it would all boil down to personal preference.
-
i set mine at 250 in everything. i can't hit anything at any other setting. just what i've become used to i guess. i suppose it would all boil down to personal preference.
Irish you shall set your convergance at whatever distance you are ordered to by the Muppet high command no matter if it makes any sense or not!!!!! OR ELSE...................
:neener:
-
400 for wing mounted stuff, 650 for all the center mounted stuff.
The 30mm out of the K4 wobbles so much longer shots are harder and the round drops so much I prescribe to the 'give it loft' camp. But I am open to changing.
-
250 for the k4.... 300ish for everything else
-
As close as HTC's collision model will let me.
-
You know something I have NEVER seen but would love to is screen shots with the gunsight of shots in different situations with the convergence, speed, blah blah blah.. posted. I think it would give a lot of people, especially me, a great deal of help in actually hitting something other than the ground (I'm a visual learner).
-
I set convergence anywhere from 400-650 depending on the gun package without regard to wing or nose mounts and open fire anywhere between 200 and 1000 depending on the situation and gun package but 400-600 is my ideal range.
I know that doesn't help but it's the way it is.
-
I set convergence anywhere from 400-650 depending on the gun package without regard to wing or nose mounts and open fire anywhere between 200 and 1000 depending on the situation and gun package but 400-600 is my ideal range.
I know that doesn't help but it's the way it is.
To be honest, I think your methods probably answer the OP's question the most accurately. "When do you all shoot?"
I bet the overwhelmingly vast majority of the players use that same exact methodology.
So, in effect, that does help :D
-
D200 is 101-300feet, D400 is 301-500, and D600 is 501-700.
I take my shots when it say's 400 but when it says 200 is where I get most of my kills.
Most of my cannons are set for 275 or 300 depending on plane.
My 50's usually are at 375-400 with the white line 50's out ahead.
My N1k1 is set to a secret convergence that I'm amazed actually works :uhoh
A few old pics of convergence I used from 2007-09. The Ki-61 is a one pull lazer
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss146.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss141.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/A8TOOL/ahss143.jpg)
-
D200 is 101-300feet, D400 is 301-500, and D600 is 501-700.
I take my shots when it say's 400 but when it says 200 is where I get most of my kills.
The icons actually display YARDS, not feet.
Same thing applies while in the hanger, but the distance isn't really apparent.
-
My N1k1 is set to a secret convergence that I'm amazed actually works :uhoh
out with it.
-
I was wondering just now, and you correct me if I'm wrong, the way convergence works is the bullets will converge horizontaly AND verticaly at convergence distance right? So setting convergence further would help with leading the target within convergence? Like they fire a wee bit upward within convergence so it add a bit to your lead so you dont have to lead with the nose as much.
Thoughts, comments?
will run some testing on that! Will get back to you.
-
I was wondering just now, and you correct me if I'm wrong, the way convergence works is the bullets will converge horizontaly AND verticaly at convergence distance right? So setting convergence further would help with leading the target within convergence? Like they fire a wee bit upward within convergence so it add a bit to your lead so you dont have to lead with the nose as much.
Thoughts, comments?
will run some testing on that! Will get back to you.
For nose-mounts, setting the convergence further out would give you that little extra loft you're referring to, which has often come up as a way to "help" with lead. In reality, it doesn't help though. It just slightly changes where you need to aim for all of your shots.
For wing-mounts, the opposite is true. You'd need to set your convergence closer to get that extra loft, and that would really mess up your L/R crossing-point. I had a thread somewhere with a ton of screen shots, I'll see if I can find it.
-
Right. My testing didnt show any really decisive advantages to it either.
And on a side note, a little advice to y'all : before drawing something on your screen, make sure you're using one of your erasable marker. NOT a permanent one... #LFMF
-
Found it...
Look at the screen shots at the end of this thread. Especially look at the screenies that show the 300 yard shots with convergence set at 150, 300, and 600 with the wing-mounted guns, and the ones that show the difference in impact-point with a 600 yd vs. a 150 yd convergence setting.
I purposely picked the 38 to compare with the F4U, because it shows similar weapons that have been mounted differently.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291146.0.html
-
Good find Mtnman, I was looking for it to. In the end even Skuzzy stepped into the discussion and said you were right.
Another good thread where MNTMAN contributed his expert knowledge would be this one. It's where some of these pictures were taken from. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,263464.0.html
The convergence is set to meet at one point like the tip of a cone. After they meet they extend out in the other direction creating another cone. The farther they travel the larger the cone on the other end. Well you only started with 3.5 feet so twice the convergence set would end up the same size as the nose again.
(http://thesaurus.maths.org/mmkb/media/png/Cone.png)
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/convergence2/image002.gif)(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/convergence2/image003.gif)
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/Mtnman_03/Copyofp-51b-guns.jpg)
-
Good find Mtnman, I was looking for it to. In the end even Skuzzy stepped into the discussion and said you were right.
Another good thread where MNTMAN contributed his expert knowledge would be this one. It's where some of these pictures were taken from. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,263464.0.html
The convergence is set to meet at one point like the tip of a cone. After they meet they extend out in the other direction creating another cone. The farther they travel the larger the cone on the other end. Well you only started with 3.5 feet so twice the convergence set would end up the same size as the nose again.
(http://thesaurus.maths.org/mmkb/media/png/Cone.png)
(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/convergence2/image002.gif)(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/convergence2/image003.gif)
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/Mtnman_03/Copyofp-51b-guns.jpg)
Thanks!
The only thing that really bothers me about the diagrams you posted is the middle one (aim point too close/too far) because it really isn't accurate when it comes to the vertical components of the wing-mounts it depicts.
I won't go so far as to say it's incorrect, just that I've never seen it to be right...
With the aim point too close, it's really hard to miss by shooting under your opponent. With it too far, it's really hard to miss by shooting high... The diagram is opposite of reality (and of AH).
-
Shoot whenever you think you can hit your target.
If he's flying straight and level? I'll fire as far as my bullets can go.
If he's jinking around like a mad man? I'll wait until he crosses my sights.
If we're pulling Gs? I'll shoot and adjust based on tracer fire.
If I'm coming from the side? I'll pull lead more lead.