Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tango on September 30, 2011, 11:09:23 PM

Title: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Tango on September 30, 2011, 11:09:23 PM
Why aren't there any player controlled gun emplacements in the towns? Being that the towns are the key to taking or holding an air field, shouldn't we have a few around them as we do at the air fields?
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: B-17 on September 30, 2011, 11:32:47 PM
...Is this a questtion or a wish?
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Raphael on September 30, 2011, 11:35:36 PM
do you mean flak or like those gun nests placed in strategic spots?
I would guess (if the nest case) it is because we do not have infantry yet
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Tango on September 30, 2011, 11:37:44 PM
...Is this a questtion or a wish?

both
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: B-17 on October 01, 2011, 12:09:25 AM
Raphael, I would think that troops will not be included in gameplay for a while yet, or at least not human controlled onces. That would lead ME to believe that he is talking about the flak guns in/around the towns.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: guncrasher on October 01, 2011, 12:56:23 AM
you really want caldera to be manning the guns at the town  :O.

semp
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Tyrannis on October 01, 2011, 03:44:33 AM
roll a flak/m16/ost out to town. there is your player controlled guns  :aok
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: uptown on October 01, 2011, 11:25:42 AM
kind of hard to roll a GV if the VH is down. I think manned guns in the towns are a great idea. Especially if you're too lazy to setup the GV controls like me.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Zoney on October 01, 2011, 11:37:28 AM
No.

Get a plane.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: JOACH1M on October 01, 2011, 11:54:34 AM
No.

Get a plane.
+1000
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Tango on October 01, 2011, 12:19:59 PM
kind of hard to roll a GV if the VH is down. I think manned guns in the towns are a great idea. Especially if you're too lazy to setup the GV controls like me.

Pretty much why I posted this idea.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: skorpion on October 01, 2011, 12:26:30 PM
you really want caldera to be manning the guns at the town  :O.

semp
actually...yes. snuggie is fun to watch when he's dweebing in his 37mm shooting goons 3k+ out. :lol


i think that deserves some credit, but he's downing goons like that from the field...soo....no big difference.


as to the OP i'd like to see manned guns in town. prefferably the quad 20mm's.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: IrishOne on October 01, 2011, 12:29:32 PM
as to the OP i'd like to see manned guns in town. prefferably the quad 20mm's.

couldn't you accomplish that very thing by simply just rolling a whirb into the town?   if the VH happens to be down, oh well......
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: skorpion on October 01, 2011, 12:35:49 PM
if the VH happens to be down, oh well......

thats why i want the quad 20mm's. if the VH is down you still have a fighting chance.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: IrishOne on October 01, 2011, 12:41:29 PM
thats why i want the quad 20mm's. if the VH is down you still have a fighting chance.


how often do they leave the guns in town up during a capture?   answer: never.  when these 60+ player hordes come in to capture a base, it's straight up scorched earth.   if the VH is down, and you find them attacking the town, you can bet your bottom dollar those manned gun enplacements will be down.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: DMGOD on October 01, 2011, 12:47:57 PM
thats why i want the quad 20mm's. if the VH is down you still have a fighting chance.

You don't have a subscription. Doubt they take down vh in offline arenas
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 01, 2011, 12:49:04 PM
It would be nice to have at least one manned AA emplacement in towns along with at least one, preferably two 17 pounder gun emplacements as well.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: skorpion on October 01, 2011, 01:11:02 PM
You don't have a subscription. Doubt they take down vh in offline arenas

how was your vacation?


As far as town aa goes I would take ack's idea and throw in another 17 pounder along with a 37mm in the center of town.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: caldera on October 01, 2011, 01:17:46 PM
you really want caldera to be manning the guns at the town  :O.

semp

Killed 999's B-29 with one hit, going away at 2.5k.  :devil

-1 to any guns in town and +1 to doubling guns on base.  Fight belongs in/over the town.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: skorpion on October 01, 2011, 01:21:03 PM
Killed 999's B-29 with one hit, going away at 2.5k.  :devil

-1 to any guns in town and +1 to doubling guns on base.  Fight belongs in/over the town.
any guns in town? 17 pounders have crappy FOV and turn horribly slow. im sure we could fit those in.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: caldera on October 01, 2011, 01:31:11 PM
any guns in town? 17 pounders have crappy FOV and turn horribly slow. im sure we could fit those in.

Yep.  I think towns should be farther away from their respective bases and totally unprotected.  That would be a good place for a fight, since capturing the town is the primary objective and "Y-29" -style vulch fests weren't the norm in WWII.  Currently the M.O. to take a base is cap, de-ack and vulch for 15 minutes; followed by noe Lancs or Wirbles taking down the town at their leisure.  Making every base ack automatic/manned and doubling the lot of them should reduce this behavior pattern. 
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: skorpion on October 01, 2011, 01:38:57 PM
Yep.  I think towns should be farther away from their respective bases and totally unprotected.  That would be a good place for a fight, since capturing the town is the primary objective and "Y-29" -style vulch fests weren't the norm in WWII.  Currently the M.O. to take a base is cap, de-ack and vulch for 15 minutes; followed by noe Lancs or Wirbles taking down the town at their leisure.  Making every base ack automatic/manned and doubling the lot of them should reduce this behavior pattern. 

dont you think there should be at least some opposition to fight back so its not so easy? wouldnt just a single manned 37mm make sense in the middle by the maproom to encourage effort?
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: 68ZooM on October 01, 2011, 01:48:58 PM
dont you think there should be at least some opposition to fight back so its not so easy? wouldnt just a single manned 37mm make sense in the middle by the maproom to encourage effort?

Just one more gun to take out as there diving in, not a game changer that's for sure, common way to protect the town is get GV's in it and keep Moving around ( harder to hit when your moving) i see so many GV's just sit still and shoot which makes a great target for Jabbo's.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: caldera on October 01, 2011, 01:58:59 PM
dont you think there should be at least some opposition to fight back so its not so easy? wouldnt just a single manned 37mm make sense in the middle by the maproom to encourage effort?

You want to keep it, then defend it.  If the fight is right on the base, it is just a frustrating mess to defend and really limits your choices in what you take out of the hangar.

Now if the fight were away from the base, your options would be greater and you'd at least have a chance for a fight.  Base takers could still steamroll bases, but porking and hangar camping would be much tougher.  Make it so both friendly and enemy have vehicle spawns equidistant and on opposite sides of the town.  I'm not a tanker but imagine they'd like some in town battles. 
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: guncrasher on October 01, 2011, 02:11:21 PM
bases have about at least 5 manned gun positions, and they are destroyed easily.  town manned guns are not going to stop the base take.  only way is to bring airplanes to defend.  I see lots of times people bringing more gv's than airplanes to defend a town.  and they normally get to the town after the troops are already rolling.

semp
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: BaldEagl on October 01, 2011, 02:15:03 PM
I agree.  I think towns should have at least a few manned gun positions; both 37mm and 17 lbers.  Game changer?  No, but it might help slow down the take until help arrives.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 01, 2011, 02:39:26 PM
I agree.  I think towns should have at least a few manned gun positions; both 37mm and 17 lbers.  Game changer?  No, but it might help slow down the take until help arrives.

Personally, I would like to see the addition of at least one or two 88mm flak guns in towns as well as there used to be.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: titanic3 on October 01, 2011, 03:51:05 PM
Here's an idea. If you want to slow down a base capture. Why not add rings of barbed wire/tank traps. These are all destroyable and the attackers need to blow them up in order to allow troops to run through the gaps. If you blow the wires sporadicly instead of blowing it in one straight path, the troops will run around in circles until they find an opening, then again and again until they reach the map room. If you blow the wires all parallel to one another, the troops will just run a straight path to the map room.

Adds a little bit more decision making and slow it down just a wee bit more.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: waystin2 on October 01, 2011, 04:02:16 PM
First this would be better off in the wishlist Sir.  Second I like the idea.  +1
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: crazyivan on October 01, 2011, 07:03:04 PM
The vtards dissaprove of this idea. Buildings are hard enough to kill as is, and let's not get started about the ground.

Personally, I would like to see the addition of at least one or two 88mm flak guns in towns as well as there used to be.

ack-ack
shshhh about the 88mm. You'll get Jager, started on his theorectical arty discussion again.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: icepac on October 01, 2011, 08:39:23 PM
How about some 50 caliber guns.

Those were pretty popular in the war.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: 68ZooM on October 01, 2011, 10:01:04 PM
i like Ack Ack's idea of the Flak 88's they were used heavily for AA and Anti Tank guns also during the war, it's surprising it's taking this long for them NOT to be in the game. player controlled with camo netting.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: skorpion on October 01, 2011, 10:07:20 PM
i like Ack Ack's idea of the Flak 88's they were used heavily for AA and Anti Tank guns also during the war, it's surprising it's taking this long for them NOT to be in the game. player controlled with camo netting.
we do have 88mm Flak guns in game, just fly over any strat and on one of those massive HQ looking buildings you'll see them.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: titanic3 on October 01, 2011, 10:35:52 PM
Does are just for looks. Far as I know, they fire the same way puffy ack from a CV does. If we do get the 88mm, it will probably be only as an anti tank gun. 88mms had no proximity fuses, which would make it a whole lot harder than our point and click 5" guns.

I suppose it would replace the puffy ack guns in the EWA and MWA as an AAA gun. But that would probably take a whole lot of work to redo every map and replace all puffy ack guns with an 88mm.

In the LWA however, it would be pointless to use. The 17lber already has enough firepower to kill all tanks, there's no need for the 88mm despite it's importance in WW2. (IIRC, the 88 had more penetration than the 17lber, so then why would anyone use the 17lber if the 88mm is available?
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: kvuo75 on October 02, 2011, 01:26:17 AM
You want to keep it, then defend it.  If the fight is right on the base, it is just a frustrating mess to defend and really limits your choices in what you take out of the hangar.

Now if the fight were away from the base, your options would be greater and you'd at least have a chance for a fight.  Base takers could still steamroll bases, but porking and hangar camping would be much tougher.  Make it so both friendly and enemy have vehicle spawns equidistant and on opposite sides of the town.  I'm not a tanker but imagine they'd like some in town battles. 

as a field gun dweeb I can't agree more.. take the fight away from the base, and to the town. Towns shouldn't have any guns, auto OR manned, IMO.

Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 02, 2011, 04:44:45 AM
as a field gun dweeb I can't agree more.. take the fight away from the base, and to the town. Towns shouldn't have any guns, auto OR manned, IMO.



Why shouldn't town have any guns?  To make it easier for your kind to capture it?  There should be a couple of flak towers in the town with auto-88mm guns along with at least 2 manned gun positions and a similar number of 17 pounder manned gun emplacements. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: caldera on October 02, 2011, 11:09:08 AM
Quote
To make it easier for your kind to capture it?

Oh, the irony is thick right there.  At A-98 last night, there was a single P-38J amongst the blue plane horde steamrolling the base. 
I guess you don't mind hanging out with his kind if you get to clear the twelve of six other guys "fighting" some hapless defender. 

Nice avatar, kvuo.  :aok
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: kvuo75 on October 02, 2011, 01:17:37 PM
Why shouldn't town have any guns?  To make it easier for your kind to capture it?  There should be a couple of flak towers in the town with auto-88mm guns along with at least 2 manned gun positions and a similar number of 17 pounder manned gun emplacements. 

ack-ack


I thought caldera explained it pretty well..

also, you must have me confused with someone else, as I am pretty much 100% defense..  I can't even remember the last capture I got. shooting at desperate vulchers is almost my full time job in the game.

when the new towns first came out, there was no ack in them at all. it made it so the hordelets needed to babysit their precious new base if they wanted to steamroll, lest someone come in and sneak it back before town popped.

caldera, btw. that wasn't me. I might have jumped in a gun or something, but I do not fly from capped bases, which is why I agree so much with directing the fight towards the town. 
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Groth on October 03, 2011, 01:07:13 AM
 There was..long ago(IE;more than 2 hours ago fer you needy/gotta have it nowers)...a try at gun emplacements all over! They were here..they were there..they were at spawn(that's right..37mm and vhangers at spawns)...was interesting. Wonder what happened to that...
 There was even, on early BOB map, ability to rearm at farms(if them nasty germans got foothold on Great Britian itself, them jerries always wondered where the heck I'd gotten to & came back from)..seems more diffrent stuff has flowed under the bridge than y'all realize.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: The Fugitive on October 03, 2011, 08:02:11 AM
There was..long ago(IE;more than 2 hours ago fer you needy/gotta have it nowers)...a try at gun emplacements all over! They were here..they were there..they were at spawn(that's right..37mm and vhangers at spawns)...was interesting. Wonder what happened to that...
 There was even, on early BOB map, ability to rearm at farms(if them nasty germans got foothold on Great Britian itself, them jerries always wondered where the heck I'd gotten to & came back from)..seems more diffrent stuff has flowed under the bridge than y'all realize.



Im guessing that this stuff was all on custom maps used in AvA and for the scenarios. None of this stuff was used in the MAs.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Slate on October 03, 2011, 08:55:15 AM
  Slightly off topic but the town pops after 45 min. from the first building destroyed but I notice the town ack always pops first. Anyone know the length of time town ack stays down?  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: kvuo75 on October 03, 2011, 09:10:46 AM
  Slightly off topic but the town pops after 45 min. from the first building destroyed but I notice the town ack always pops first. Anyone know the length of time town ack stays down?  :headscratch:


it's the same, as far as I know.. I think you just notice an ack popping before a building, because an ack shoots at you, a building does not.. either that, or someone deacked before starting on the buildings.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: waystin2 on October 03, 2011, 09:18:19 AM
 Slightly off topic but the town pops after 45 min. from the first building destroyed but I notice the town ack always pops first. Anyone know the length of time town ack stays down?  :headscratch:

I seem to remember town ack as down somewhere between 10-15 minutes.
Title: Re: Gun Emplacements
Post by: Scca on October 03, 2011, 03:38:13 PM
I seem to remember town ack as down somewhere between 10-15 minutes.
Per this http://www.hitechcreations.com/Help-Section/Flight-Sim-Information/aces-high-help-gameplay.html#targets (http://www.hitechcreations.com/Help-Section/Flight-Sim-Information/aces-high-help-gameplay.html#targets), town buildings are down 45 minutes.  Ack is down 2 hours BUT, can be resupplied to come up faster unlike buildings that are down for 45 minutes period.

In game, if the ack factory is up, the ack down time of 2 hours is shortened. I don't know what the formula is, but it seems it works out right around 45 minutes from what I experienced.  As a note, you can bring up ack faster if you drop field supplies in town (not commonly known).

I have seen hordes of m3's charging town from a nearby spawn with field supplies bringing town ack up almost as fast as they horde could bring it down.  It was almost comical..