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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Raptor05121 on October 04, 2011, 09:28:36 PM

Title: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Raptor05121 on October 04, 2011, 09:28:36 PM
Does anyone have any information or reading material on discovering airplanes (either Pacific or Atlantic) well after World War II? I read a simple passage in one of my books that some people discovered a few Zeros in some Pacific islands in the 1970s like they were just abandoned all of a sudden back in 1945. I find this fascinating!
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: skorpion on October 04, 2011, 09:29:38 PM
i remember reading somewhere about a B-24 crashing in a deep ravine in new zealand (i think) and it was found just last year. or close to it.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Soulyss on October 04, 2011, 09:38:37 PM
The jungles of New Guinea and other Pacific islands hold a lot of wrecks, getting to them is very challenging.  Getting them out even more so.

You can check out http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ (http://www.pacificwrecks.com/) it has some good information and stories about 5th Air Force wrecks.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Raptor05121 on October 04, 2011, 09:42:16 PM
Good deal. I would love reading about intact airplanes as well. Re my original post, all my book says was that some Zeros were discovered back in the 1970s on some now-overgrown remote airstrip as they were left in 1945. Probably used as parts planes for others. So somewhat intact, but missing a few critical pieces.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Guppy35 on October 04, 2011, 10:48:40 PM
Some of the stuff coming out of Russia is amazing.  Lots of stuff  still to be found.  Canada and Alaska hide many wrecks as does the PT.  They still pull them out of European lakes now and then too.  The last wartime Jug loss was pulled from an Austrian lake and is being restored to flight in California.

See if Bodhi comes along and tells a few stories. 
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: AHTbolt on October 05, 2011, 07:01:05 AM
I have a link to the  story about the 4 Zeros. They used all 4 to make 1 flyable. I will post the link when I get off work.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: perdue3 on October 05, 2011, 12:29:48 PM
Glacier Girl
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: icepac on October 05, 2011, 02:16:37 PM
I was told by someone that a few warehouses in russia still controlled by the military house a few lend/lease planes that were never assembled.

Most warehouses not controlled by the military have been raped by the metal scrappers who have no idea that the objects they are scrapping are far more valuable than the pathetic prices they get for scrap.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: AHTbolt on October 05, 2011, 06:46:07 PM
here's the link http://www.pacificwrecks.com/people/restore/sterling.html

And here's a link about the airfield.http://www.pacificwrecks.com/people/visitors/gajda/taroa/
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: W7LPNRICK on October 05, 2011, 07:19:44 PM
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/226935-WWII-German-Plane-Found-Intact-Off-Kent (http://www.sott.net/articles/show/226935-WWII-German-Plane-Found-Intact-Off-Kent)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Be_Good_(aircraft) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Be_Good_(aircraft)

http://www.damninteresting.com/exhuming-the-glacier-girl/ (http://www.damninteresting.com/exhuming-the-glacier-girl/)

random google search found some interesting ones :salute
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Guppy35 on October 05, 2011, 07:47:42 PM
OK some of the best recoveries.  This one belongs to Paul Allen of Microsoft Fame and is flying.  The only A5 in the air

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jueDXiuU6aM

This 109E is in the US now.  It was pulled from a Russian Lake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-VpSDxWTnI&feature=related

Many birds have come out of Lake Michigan.  This is an SBD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNfniAejqTg&feature=related

An early F4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clxKsjkX8wk&feature=related

F6F-3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwlIVAveiIM&feature=related

Recently recovered Helldiver from a California lake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BxRThw8_Yw&feature=related

190 recovery in Norway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnc0C71vbtA&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL9E0F21521C075EDC

Ju 87  off Greece
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqoWyBkSW_A&feature=related

Sturmovik  Lake Balonton, Hungary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpQfnUoOOb4&feature=related

P47D Dottie Mae from Austrian Lake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKXUl3tjKVc

Lend Lease P39 from a Russian Lake now in New York
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i__qnnMFPSY


You want more? :)
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: skorpion on October 05, 2011, 07:57:22 PM
You want more? :)
yes please! :D

i really liked the SBD and the P47 vids, really cool.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Guppy35 on October 05, 2011, 08:51:03 PM
yes please! :D

i really liked the SBD and the P47 vids, really cool.

B-17E Swamp Ghost.  Now in California, recovered from New Guiniea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZLRHpIEDaQ

Not a video, but website detailing the recovery and restoration of some JU-88s in Norway
http://www.ju88.net/

Of course the well known Finnish Brewster recovery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4X3fRsV24s

And of course the "Million Dollar Valley" Marauders.  One restored to flight by Kermit Weeks, another being restored as well
http://explorenorth.com/library/aviation/million_dollar_valley.html

The Watson Lake Marauder recovery was fairly recent.
http://www.yukon-news.com/news/23353/

This site will keep you busy on abandoned aircraft of the north
http://www.ruudleeuw.com/search116.htm
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Guppy35 on October 05, 2011, 09:08:46 PM
A really rare bird the USN is hoping to recovery for its Museum.  A TBD Devestator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PeA8myrlxU

This Halifax came out of a Norwegian lake and has been restored.  Another Halifax recovered from a Norwegian Lake is in the RAF Museum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVO8FuqqV-k&feature=related

B-17 bits out of Alaska for a restoration in Illinois
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYNTXZ92nCk

Another 17 that is being restored that came out of a Canadian Lake
http://nwrain.net/~newtsuit/b17labrador/

109 in Norway recovery
http://www.namdalsavisa.no/Nyhet/article5126536.ece

Recovered 190 from Norway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnc0C71vbtA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B-LA1vsnlU&feature=related

That should keep ya busy.  There are always more :)
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: beau32 on October 05, 2011, 10:57:17 PM
There is this PBY in Saudi Arabia

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kendo1938/sets/72057594081556662/

Quote
On 22 March 1960 the Catalina touched down at Ras Ash Shaykh Humayd on the headland dividing the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba facing Tyran Island.  The aircraft was anchored close to the shore and the crew slept on board that night.  The following day, the family group were attacked from the headland by gun-toting Saudi Arabian Bedouins.  Although the family and camera crew made it back to the Catalina, the aircraft sustained damage from several hundred bullets and had to be abandoned.  The Kendalls and party were arrested and held a few days on suspicion of being Israelis.  N5593V was too badly damaged to be salvaged and remained at the site, where it is still a graffiti-covered desert landmark.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 06, 2011, 03:27:44 AM
There is a reservoir in Chula Vista that I used to go fishing at and there is one section near the fishing pier in front of the snack bar where it was notorious for losing lines and lures after getting hung up.  For years and years it was thought it was just the stumps of trees that was snagging lines and lures until just recently when the reservoir lowered enough to reveal a Dauntless Dive Bomber that had crashed into the reservoir back in the '40s.  I don't know if there are any plans to remove it and restore it or just leave there in the lake. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Rino on October 06, 2011, 07:54:56 AM
     Guppy missed one, the Midatlantic Air Museum's P-61 Black Widow.  Understandable as it's been a
marathon restoration effect since it was recovered.  :D

http://www.maam.org/p61/p61_rest.htm (http://www.maam.org/p61/p61_rest.htm)
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: AHTbolt on October 06, 2011, 08:40:29 PM
 I found the Navy rules very interesting, they say that they still own all Navy aircraft even wrecks and the courts back them up. While the Air Force say anything before 1961 is fair game, only requirment is that if remains of crew are found they must be recovered by the military mia teams.    http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org12-7f.htm
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Raptor05121 on October 06, 2011, 08:53:11 PM
Yeah I've heard the Navy is tough as nails when it comes to this. Honestly, I really don't care who's hands they belong in as long as they are preserved or restored.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: icepac on October 06, 2011, 09:56:01 PM
That's surprising because the navy was notorious for dumping perfectly good equipment overboard all over the world while the other services were scrapping.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Guppy35 on October 06, 2011, 11:34:53 PM
Yeah I've heard the Navy is tough as nails when it comes to this. Honestly, I really don't care who's hands they belong in as long as they are preserved or restored.

It appears the Navy is coming around a bit on this as there are a number of the Lake Michigan birds out to other museums or even flying.  I know the battle over the Devastators didn't make them look real good.  That and the fight over the Brewster Corsair that was finally decided in the courts in favor of the guy who recovered it.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Bodhi on October 09, 2011, 01:39:46 PM
The jungles of New Guinea and other Pacific islands hold a lot of wrecks, getting to them is very challenging.  Getting them out even more so.

You can check out http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ (http://www.pacificwrecks.com/) it has some good information and stories about 5th Air Force wrecks.


Pacific Wrecks has interesting info.  Not all of it is accurate.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: mbailey on October 09, 2011, 02:06:49 PM
    Guppy missed one, the Midatlantic Air Museum's P-61 Black Widow.  Understandable as it's been a
marathon restoration effect since it was recovered.  :D

http://www.maam.org/p61/p61_rest.htm (http://www.maam.org/p61/p61_rest.htm)
Some recent photos i took of her

(http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/mbailey166066/2011%20airshow/IMG_4355.jpg)
(http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/mbailey166066/2011%20airshow/IMG_4357.jpg)
(http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/mbailey166066/2011%20airshow/IMG_4354.jpg)
(http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/mbailey166066/2011%20airshow/IMG_4353.jpg)
(http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/mbailey166066/2011%20airshow/IMG_4352.jpg)
(http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/mbailey166066/AirshowPics2010029-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Yeager on October 09, 2011, 02:11:54 PM
I remember a story my dad used to tell about doing a layover (MAC) on Guam in the late 60s.  He and some other crewmen were told about a Japanese plane out in the jungle and they took a hike finding a Japanese Zero fighter just sitting there parked in the overgrowth.  No apparent reason to be there.......no buildings or hint of any sort of runway.  Just out there in the jungle sitting on its gear like it had landed there.  Was apparently in great shape too 20+ years after the war.  Story went on that the thing was recovered and returned to Japan a short while later.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Guppy35 on October 09, 2011, 08:51:17 PM
Pacific Wrecks has interesting info.  Not all of it is accurate.

The guy that runs that site is of the 'leave em where they lay" brigade.  I'm not a big fan of that idea. 
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Raptor05121 on October 10, 2011, 12:03:04 AM
I remember a story my dad used to tell about doing a layover (MAC) on Guam in the late 60s.  He and some other crewmen were told about a Japanese plane out in the jungle and they took a hike finding a Japanese Zero fighter just sitting there parked in the overgrowth.  No apparent reason to be there.......no buildings or hint of any sort of runway.  Just out there in the jungle sitting on its gear like it had landed there.  Was apparently in great shape too 20+ years after the war.  Story went on that the thing was recovered and returned to Japan a short while later.

That is awesome. I hope maybe we'll be able to pick up the paper trail of this bird.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Bodhi on October 10, 2011, 11:18:51 AM
The guy that runs that site is of the 'leave em where they lay" brigade.  I'm not a big fan of that idea. 

I know of Justin.  I am not a fan.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 10, 2011, 12:18:54 PM
The guy that runs that site is of the 'leave em where they lay" brigade.  I'm not a big fan of that idea. 

I'm of mixed feeling about that.  I believe that there are some wrecks that should be left where they found them and preserved in their state as a memorial instead of recovering the craft for restoration.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: skorpion on October 10, 2011, 03:11:43 PM
I'm of mixed feeling about that.  I believe that there are some wrecks that should be left where they found them and preserved in their state as a memorial instead of recovering the craft for restoration.

ack-ack
if the plane was a grave for the men flying it, leave it. if the men who were flying it got out, then take it back to restore it? is that what your saying?
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 10, 2011, 09:16:14 PM
if the plane was a grave for the men flying it, leave it. if the men who were flying it got out, then take it back to restore it? is that what your saying?

All I am saying is that there are some wrecks that should be left as be and not disturbed.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Guppy35 on October 10, 2011, 10:05:57 PM
I'm of mixed feeling about that.  I believe that there are some wrecks that should be left where they found them and preserved in their state as a memorial instead of recovering the craft for restoration.

ack-ack

Got an example AKAK?  My thing is that they all just rot away in the end.  No one is preserving them out in New Guinea for example.  I'm trying to think of any that would fit what you are describing and can't come up with any.  not saying there aren't any.  Just not coming to me right now
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Tupac on October 10, 2011, 10:33:08 PM
The B29 in lake mead
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Brooke on October 12, 2011, 06:12:49 PM
Yep -- leave them, and they just dissolve over time, leaving next to nothing.  What's the point if instead they could be restored for history?
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Guppy35 on October 14, 2011, 11:23:11 PM
Some more out of Russia.

Hurri II
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricane_Z5252/index.htm

The P39Q now in New York
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/p39/index.htm

P40C and P40E.  I think the P40C is the one that Paul Allen has now.  There is a Russian recovered P40K being restored here in Minnesota
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/p40recovery/index.htm
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Guppy35 on October 14, 2011, 11:25:26 PM
Some more out of Russia.

Hurri II
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricane_Z5252/index.htm

The P39Q now in New York
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/p39/index.htm

P40C and P40E.  I think the P40C is the one that Paul Allen has now.  There is a Russian recovered P40K being restored here in Minnesota
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/p40recovery/index.htm
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Guppy35 on October 14, 2011, 11:28:52 PM
Some more out of Russia.

Hurri II
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/hurricane_Z5252/index.htm

The P39Q now in New York
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/p39/index.htm

P40C and P40E.  I think the P40C is the one that Paul Allen has now.  There is a Russian recovered P40K being restored here in Minnesota
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/sheppard/p40recovery/index.htm
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Masherbrum on October 15, 2011, 08:56:22 AM
Three times as nice!    :rofl
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Rino on October 18, 2011, 05:16:19 PM
     Someone kick Dan, looks like he's stuck  :D
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Melvin on October 18, 2011, 05:54:45 PM
You guys might be interested in this group.

http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/

Or these guys.

http://www.aircraftarchaeology.com/

Here's the story of a B-17 that went down in the Porcupine Mountains in Michigan's U.P.

http://www.porcupinemountainsb-17.com/index.php?p=1_5_Crash-Site-1944

I've heard some eyewitness testimony from some in-laws (both engineers and very believable) of another crash about 30 miles East of Ontonagon. I haven't been able to dig up any information in the last 6 months. I also haven't been able to contact the one person that everyone directs me to, a local historian of sorts, by the name of Bruce Johanson. They said that this one was a jet and that it occurred in the mid 70's.

Any info or tips to expanding my search would be appreciated.

 :salute
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: mthrockmor on October 23, 2011, 06:26:06 PM
I bet there are hundreds of planes yet to be found. They pulled a Fw-190 out of a swamp in Russia last year. A Panther tank the year before. Within the last 12 months they found a Grumman F4F in Lake Michigan. If I had tens of millions this would be a hobby.

Boo
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Guppy35 on October 24, 2011, 11:42:50 PM
I bet there are hundreds of planes yet to be found. They pulled a Fw-190 out of a swamp in Russia last year. A Panther tank the year before. Within the last 12 months they found a Grumman F4F in Lake Michigan. If I had tens of millions this would be a hobby.

Boo

All the Lake Michigan birds are documented.  They've brought many of them up including a really early bird cage Corsair, a Midway vet SBD and a Vindicator..  They got a -3 Hellcat recently too along with all those Wildcats.
Title: Re: Discovered Airplanes?
Post by: Masherbrum on October 26, 2011, 10:08:45 PM
All the Lake Michigan birds are documented.  They've brought many of them up including a really early bird cage Corsair, a Midway vet SBD and a Vindicator..  They got a -3 Hellcat recently too along with all those Wildcats.

Indeed.   One of the better examples would be SBD-3 BuNo. 06624.  This one was just one of several that were lost during training in the Great Lakes aboard the paddlewheel carriers Wolverine and Sable.  It went in on September 19, 1943 when the pilot trainee accidentally switched to a dry fuel tank, lost power on landing, boltered and went over the side into Lake Michigan.  IIRC, it was recovered in the early 1990s, and placed on loan to the Kalamazoo Aviation History Museum (AirZoo) for restoration by the National Museum of Naval Aviation.  It served with the VS-41 “Tophatters” aboard the USS Ranger (CV-4) and had flown bombing missions in support of the Operation Torch landings in Algeria.