Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JOACH1M on October 16, 2011, 01:29:35 PM
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im looking at diesel trucks...dont ask why i have always liked them. Anyway im looking at dodge and chevy, i dont want anything newer then a 04. i want to put a big fuel injection system with a turbo. I dont know much about diesel engines, but i hear cummin's engines are the best out there. Also another question, if i go with a turbo, should i go with a twin turbo or a single?
Edit: 4x4 aswell
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well i would suggest a Cummings engine since you can't find any with Caterpillar power yet, single turbo is all you will need, you can change the button in the injector pump to allow more fuel into the injectors, keep the stock turbo on it unless you plan on doing some heavy hauling, you can also add performance chips, i did that to my Ford and it greatly improved all aspects. But if you want Cummings power stick with Dodge, then Ford would be my second choice, stay away from the Duramax Diesels there not so good longevity wise at least that's what i've heard from local owners of them. I live a what you would call a cowboy town mostly Dodges and Fords as far as Diesel power goes.
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Q: How do you ruin a Cummings diesel?
A: Wrap a Dodge truck around it.
Get the Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4. We have one at work and I'm very impressed with all aspects. (I think it's an 08?)
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The Chevy Duramax diesel paired with the Allison transmission is a match made in heaven. Don't even think about the Dodge.
EDIT: Also, Chevy is the only one to offer the Eaton G80 full locking rear differential. Ford and Dodge use a limited slip, which isn't nearly as good.
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If it were me I'd go with the Chevy Duramax. Single turbo... provided I wasn't going to pull alot of heavy loads.
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Im not going to be towing anything heavy At most a 2 place snowmobile trailer. I want to put bigger turbo on it just for the added power :)
With dodge trucks I notice seem to rust out worse then the Chevy trucks I have seen online. I don't want to spend anything more the 19000
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Im not going to be towing anything heavy At most a 2 place snowmobile trailer. I want to put bigger turbo on it just for the added power :)
With dodge trucks I notice seem to rust out worse then the Chevy trucks I have seen online. I don't want to spend anything more the 19000
Where are you from Joach?
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Where are you from Joach?
Michigan
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Gotcha. I know a guy that may be selling a 02 Duramax. Nice truck (leather and all that). He's in Iowa.
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Gotcha. I know a guy that may be selling a 02 Duramax. Nice truck (leather and all that). He's in Iowa.
Is it on Craigslist? I can search around iowa and other states nearby
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Im not going to be towing anything heavy At most a 2 place snowmobile trailer. I want to put bigger turbo on it just for the added power :)
With dodge trucks I notice seem to rust out worse then the Chevy trucks I have seen online. I don't want to spend anything more the 19000
Have you though of buying a Truck outa state? low humidity states offer the best rust free trucks and cars.
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im looking at diesel trucks...dont ask why i have always liked them. Anyway im looking at dodge and chevy, i dont want anything newer then a 04. i want to put a big fuel injection system with a turbo.
Not sure what you mean by "big fuel injection system" Diesel are all fuel injected, or they wouldn't be diesels. I wouldn't monkey with the injectors on any modern diesel if I was you, they can be under extreme pressure, like several thousand psi, the newest ones are well over 20,000 psi. I wouldn't monkey with any of the aftermarket ECU chips/reflash like Banks etc either. I've seen to many engines ruined by people hot rodding them by re-chipping. I know for a fact that the Banks chip will melt the heads on the 6.0L Powerstrokes if you're not very careful.
I dont know much about diesel engines, but i hear cummin's engines are the best out there. Also another question, if i go with a turbo, should i go with a twin turbo or a single?
Any truck you buy that is mid '90s or newer is guaranteed to be a turbo, single. There are aftermarket ball-bearing turbos that sound cooler then the stock ones, but I don't think they make a huge performance difference. Both the Cummins in the dodge, and the Duramax (Isuzu) in the Chevy are great engines, as is the Powerstroke (International) in Fords. They are all good, just different.
FWIW I've driven all 3 quite a lot, my father owns a 2004 Dodge Cummins, my brother a 2002 Ford Powerstroke (International) which he has now replaced with a Kenworth sleeper, and my work truck once was a 2006 Chevy Duramax (Isuzu)
All have there strong points, Cummins is a inline 6, while the powerstroke and duramax are V8s. The V8s will cruise at higher speeds towing heavy loads slightly better, but the Cummins tows hills and stuff just as well and gets slightly better fuel economy. IMO Chevy has the best automatic tranny for towing/hauling with the Alison, but they all work.
If I could build my perfect truck it would be the Duramax/Alison combo from a Chevy in a Ford body/interior.
PS. If you end up looking at Powerstrokes, I'd recommend the 7.3L over the newer 6.0L.
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Is it on Craigslist? I can search around iowa and other states nearby
Not as of now. He's not 100% sure he's gonna let go of it yet. I can let ya know if he does decide to sell it though.
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Have you though of buying a Truck outa state? low humidity states offer the best rust free trucks and cars.
The salt that we use on the roads eats away at the metal aswell.
Not sure what you mean by "big fuel injection system" Diesel are all fuel injected, or they wouldn't be diesels. I wouldn't monkey with the injectors on any modern diesel if I was you, they can be under extreme pressure, like several thousand psi, the newest ones are well over 20,000 psi. I wouldn't monkey with any of the aftermarket ECU chips/reflash like Banks etc either. I've seen to many engines ruined by people hot rodding them by re-chipping. I know for a fact that the Banks chip will melt the heads on the 6.0L Powerstrokes if you're not very careful.
thanks :)
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Not as of now. He's not 100% sure he's gonna let go of it yet. I can let ya know if he does decide to sell it though.
That would be great :)
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i don't understand why anyone would couple an automatic transmission with a Diesel engine, you will get more low end torque and traction and better fuel milage using a manual transmission, plus its nice to have that opition of being push started if you lose a starter, but that's just personal choice i guess.
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i don't understand why anyone would couple an automatic transmission with a Diesel engine, you will get more low end torque and traction and better fuel milage using a manual transmission, plus its nice to have that opition of being push started if you lose a starter, but that's just personal choice i guess.
My moms camaro and my dads Chevelle are sticks, I know how to drive a stick and it's fun to take a care with a stick out once in a whil, but I don't think I'd want it to be a daily thing, considering I'm only 17
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also do you know of any Auto Brokers? i have one and when i went to get a new Truck in 2009 he found me a 2004 Ford F150 FX4 Surpercab 4X4 only 21,680 miles every option available is on it for just over 12,500 including brokers fee, you just tell them what you want and how much your willing to pay, they will call you with info and pics of Trucks and then it's up to you. i got a killer deal my Buddy only charged me 500 buyers fee, he knows my sense of style and such, heres my baby, sense this Pic ive added Diamond plate tool box and Bed Rails, only has 61,200 miles on it now.
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/fordtruck.jpg)
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If you are going to chip the engine to boost power I strongly suggest you upgrade the auto tranny as well. The factory puts in the minimum equipment to get by. You add a bunch more torque and HP and you will be ripping your transmission up. Lots of RV folks go the chip route because they have too little truck for the load. Getting a new transmission later on is very very common because they overstressed the transmission. You should also look at upgrading the transmission cooler as a mandatory idea.
If you have a manual look at upgrading the clutch and pressure plate equipment.
In both cases look at an oil cooler as well to keep the engine cooler.
Watch out for the turbine inlet temp and exhaust gas temp on the turbo. If you over temp the turbo it will cause "bad things" to happen to the turbo and or engine.
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i don't understand why anyone would couple an automatic transmission with a Diesel engine, you will get more low end torque and traction and better fuel milage using a manual transmission, plus its nice to have that opition of being push started if you lose a starter, but that's just personal choice i guess.
That auto transmission will pull easier on the entire drive train when pulling a heavy load. There is no danger of glazing the clutch with it on start up. You have the traction concept backwards too. It's easier to break traction with a manual than a slush box.
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ya but driving a standard is just cooler
I'm in favor of a constitutional amendment that says any car considered 'sport' and any truck over 1/4 ton should be standard...
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i don't understand why anyone would couple an automatic transmission with a Diesel engine, you will get more low end torque and traction and better fuel milage using a manual transmission, plus its nice to have that opition of being push started if you lose a starter, but that's just personal choice i guess.
:lol
You're in the dark ages of trucks my friend. Even semi-tractors are automatics now, and ag-tractors have had automatics for a generation now. Most "experts" now say that for towing an automatic is actually far better because the torque converter sort of cushions the engine from some stress, also they can use it to slow down on steep decent without revving the engine like gearing down in a manual. I can tell you that the Alison transmission is awesome for towing. Push the little tow/haul button on the end of the stick and just cruise down the hills with no dramatics whatsoever.
As for push starting a diesel... it may be possible, but getting a diesel with 20:1 compression to turn over is a heck of a lot harder then a gas with 8 or 9:1 compression. Try in on dirt of gravel and I'll guarantee you'll just skid, try it on asphalt and you'll just flat spot your tires. You'd have to go real easy off the clutch push starting a diesel, or you might break something. Also remember it your battery is dead, so are your glow plugs/manifold heater meaning even if it cranks it will be no start or a cold rough start.
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First let me say that I'm a Ford guy through and through, I'm also a Cummins man. That being said the Chevy Duramax, Allison combination is tough to beat. The concern about longevity with the Dmax comes from the fact that they use aluminum heads, and many in the diesel community felt that would lead to early failures, and really something that has not proved to be true. The thing I dislike the most about the GM trucks is the independent front suspension on their four wheel drive trucks. Dodge has a real work horse with the Cummins which will most likely outlive the chassis it is in. The 7.3 Powerstrokes are the most desirable of the Powerstrokes in my book with the 6.0 being somewhat akin to the plague. I don't know anything about the new 6.4's which are actually built in house at Ford. The previous Powerstroke engines were built by International, the Dmax is built by Isuzu, and of course the Cummins is built by Cummins.
All three brands respond well to electronic tuners, but if you are looking to go much further the two V8 diesels can get very expensive to modify, and repair. The Dmax's did have an issue with hanging injectors that could burn down the engine if you didn't catch it in time. Ford's seemed to have an issue of killing the injectors (which run around $270 each) and in many cases Ford would decline warranty say the injector had been damaged from unclean fuel. Fords also seemed to go through a lot of cam sensors. The '98.5 to 2003 Cummins use a vp44 fuel pump that did have some reliability issues, and was a rather expensive item to replace running around $2,300, for the pump.
Oh and I wouldn't hold my breath for a Caterpillar. Last I heard they were getting out of the OTR business all together.
If you did get a diesel make sure you put gauges on it before you do any modifications. With a pyrometer being the first priority, followed by a boost gauge.
Like I said I'm a Ford guy
(click on pics for larger view)
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff266/Radcam/th_Mytruck.jpg) (http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff266/Radcam/?action=view¤t=Mytruck.jpg)
and a Cummins man.
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff266/Radcam/th_DSC01135.jpg) (http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff266/Radcam/?action=view¤t=DSC01135.jpg)
I'm not into all that electronic bs so I'm running a '98 Cummins 12 valve in a '91 F350. I made 225hp and 503 ft/lb at the rear wheels the only time I ever dyno'd it.
If you want to see a pictorial of the Cummins conversion visit my webshots page here:
http://community.webshots.com/user/radcamtd
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i don't understand why anyone would couple an automatic transmission with a Diesel engine, you will get more low end torque and traction and better fuel milage using a manual transmission, plus its nice to have that opition of being push started if you lose a starter, but that's just personal choice i guess.
Zoom the new autos are actually better with the diesels than a stick. They have the full lock up converters so you don't lose that much low end power and you don't lose your boost between shifts.
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Zoom the new autos are actually better with the diesels than a stick. They have the full lock up converters so you don't lose that much low end power and you don't lose your boost between shifts.
oh i understand this and maybe so but like i said it's personal choices when people buy their Trucks, Ive owned both auto and manual and manual transmissions suit me and my needs and haven't let me down.
Saggs... Ive pushed started many diesel trucks in my 25 years operating trucks and equipment, on the Cummings diesel the Pump has a manual override knob, just turn it and bump the truck forward it will start, A pure mechanical diesel engine unlike a gas engine does not need an electrical spark for ignition. On a gas engine all you have to do is take away the electricity and the engine can't run. A diesel uses the heat of compression to ignite the fuel so removing the electricity from a diesel may not stop it from running.
There are of course, exceptions to this. All modern diesel engines use some electrical devices to operate. Almost all diesels have an electrically operated fuel shutoff solenoid and electric fuel lift pumps. Others like the turbo diesels use an electronic injection pump. As long as these engines are getting air, fuel and electricity they will continue to run. Cutting off the electricity to these engines should stop them. One exception would be a normally aspirated diesel with a malfunctioning fuel shutoff valve.
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also do you know of any Auto Brokers? i have one and when i went to get a new Truck in 2009 he found me a 2004 Ford F150 FX4 Surpercab 4X4 only 21,680 miles every option available is on it for just over 12,500 including brokers fee, you just tell them what you want and how much your willing to pay, they will call you with info and pics of Trucks and then it's up to you. i got a killer deal my Buddy only charged me 500 buyers fee, he knows my sense of style and such, heres my baby, sense this Pic ive added Diamond plate tool box and Bed Rails, only has 61,200 miles on it now.
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/fordtruck.jpg)
Very nice! :)
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I'm not into all that electronic bs so I'm running a '98 Cummins 12 valve in a '91 F350. I made 225hp and 503 ft/lb at the rear wheels the only time I ever dyno'd it.
If you want to see a pictorial of the Cummins conversion visit my webshots page here:
http://community.webshots.com/user/radcamtd
Thanks for posting that site for the conversion, that truck is cool as hell great work on the converstion :aok 39 Dozer :aok
i've operated both Cummings and Cat equiped Trucks both are great engines IMO. i would love to do a 425 Cat Conversion into a F-350 i love the rumble of a Cat engine and you can find them for under 5 grand ( used of course).
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oh i understand this and maybe so but like i said it's personal choices when people buy their Trucks, Ive owned both auto and manual and manual transmissions suit me and my needs and haven't let me down.
Saggs... Ive pushed started many diesel trucks in my 25 years operating trucks and equipment, on the Cummings diesel the Pump has a manual override knob, just turn it and bump the truck forward it will start, A pure mechanical diesel engine unlike a gas engine does not need an electrical spark for ignition. On a gas engine all you have to do is take away the electricity and the engine can't run. A diesel uses the heat of compression to ignite the fuel so removing the electricity from a diesel may not stop it from running.
There are of course, exceptions to this. All modern diesel engines use some electrical devices to operate. Almost all diesels have an electrically operated fuel shutoff solenoid and electric fuel lift pumps. Others like the turbo diesels use an electronic injection pump. As long as these engines are getting air, fuel and electricity they will continue to run. Cutting off the electricity to these engines should stop them. One exception would be a normally aspirated diesel with a malfunctioning fuel shutoff valve.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: You've had a reading comprehension fail.
I've worked on engines all my life, I don't need a lesson on how a diesel works, I grew up on the farm fixing diesel tractors, pickups, bailwagons, and generators many times.. and now I fix airplanes :uhoh Read my post again and comprehend... Try starting a diesel on a cold day with no battery and no external power and let me know how that works out for you?
You can push start a gas engine with no battery because the alternator can provide enough amperage to get the ignition coil going just from the initial crank. However glow plugs and manifold heaters get really, really hot, which takes a lot of current over at least 3-4 seconds. A spinning alternator from a rolling truck can't cut it. With a dead battery on a diesel you will have no preheat at all. Not a problem really if you live in Texas of Arizona, but in any temperate to cold climate a diesel with no preheat ain't gonna start, unless you use a whole bunch of ether which will cause a bunch of other problems over time.
I'll take your word on push starting a diesel, I've never been desperate enough to try it, no doubt you can't just pop the clutch like with a gas though, like I said it's a whole lot harder to crank 20:1 compression then 8:1.
I've had the privilege of operating a 96 Powerstroke that the glow plug controller went out on, even at 80° F, it wouldn't start. With 2 big batteries it'll crank for a long, long time too, won't do any good with cold cylinders though. If I gave it 3-4 long shots of ether then it would start rough, but like I said that not healthy at all.
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Chevy Duramax, 4life.
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You cannot push start a gas engine vehicle without a battery. The alternator will not produce any power without the field being activated by the battery no matter how fast you spin it. No battery and the generator is just a lump of wiring and metal.
A generator WILL create electricity without a battery due to the construction and use of magnets just by being spun.
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I have a 2500 HD Chevy with Duramax /Allison combo. I highly recommend it.
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/Mmytruck.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/045.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/Photo0435.jpg)
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First let me say that I'm a Ford guy through and through, I'm also a Cummins man. That being said the Chevy Duramax, Allison combination is tough to beat. The concern about longevity with the Dmax comes from the fact that they use aluminum heads, and many in the diesel community felt that would lead to early failures, and really something that has not proved to be true. The thing I dislike the most about the GM trucks is the independent front suspension on their four wheel drive trucks. Dodge has a real work horse with the Cummins which will most likely outlive the chassis it is in. The 7.3 Powerstrokes are the most desirable of the Powerstrokes in my book with the 6.0 being somewhat akin to the plague. I don't know anything about the new 6.4's which are actually built in house at Ford. The previous Powerstroke engines were built by International, the Dmax is built by Isuzu, and of course the Cummins is built by Cummins.
All three brands respond well to electronic tuners, but if you are looking to go much further the two V8 diesels can get very expensive to modify, and repair. The Dmax's did have an issue with hanging injectors that could burn down the engine if you didn't catch it in time. Ford's seemed to have an issue of killing the injectors (which run around $270 each) and in many cases Ford would decline warranty say the injector had been damaged from unclean fuel. Fords also seemed to go through a lot of cam sensors. The '98.5 to 2003 Cummins use a vp44 fuel pump that did have some reliability issues, and was a rather expensive item to replace running around $2,300, for the pump.
Oh and I wouldn't hold my breath for a Caterpillar. Last I heard they were getting out of the OTR business all together.
If you did get a diesel make sure you put gauges on it before you do any modifications. With a pyrometer being the first priority, followed by a boost gauge.
What he said. Avoid that damn 6.0 Powerstroke, it's crap.
And Cat is done with OTR for sure. I always hoped Detroit would make a pickup engine for Chevy but they went with the Duramax. Turned out pretty good for them though.
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You cannot push start a gas engine vehicle without a battery. The alternator will not produce any power without the field being activated by the battery no matter how fast you spin it. No battery and the alternator is just a lump of wiring and metal.
A generator WILL create electricity without a battery due to the construction and use of magnets just by being spun.
Fixed the original post. Had the wrong term there. :o
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I would like to correct something. I said earlier the 6.4 was built in house by Ford and that is incorrect. The 6.4 is a Navistar (International) engine. The new '11 up 6.7's are the engines built by Ford.
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Q: How do you ruin a Cummings diesel?
A: Wrap a Dodge truck around it.
:lol :lol :lol :lol
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You cannot push start a gas engine vehicle without a battery. The alternator will not produce any power without the field being activated by the battery no matter how fast you spin it. No battery and the generator is just a lump of wiring and metal.
A generator WILL create electricity without a battery due to the construction and use of magnets just by being spun.
Yup... Unless you have a permanent magnet alternator.
But even a "dead" battery (in the sense that it cannot crank the starter) will still energize the field. It takes very little current, even if you left your lights on all day, you could still push start a gas car. I never meant you could push start without a battery, just a dead one. Point was it's not the same with a diesel, since the preheat system (glow plugs/manifold heater) take quite a lot of current.
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Dielsels now heat instantaniously. No turn key wait for beep.
One battery goes bad you can still jump start one also. If both go bad then not much chance.
I have an alarm system on my truck where I can check battery condition and temperature inside the truck while in my office.
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buy a ford 1 ton and put a Cummings in it!!
i love this one, coldstart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7mEeW_x5tQ&feature=related
this guy lives near me-39 Chevy with a little b series Cummings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVlov_t4fjg
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/natorino/cobrajet.jpg)
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The Chevy Duramax diesel paired with the Allison transmission is a match made in heaven. Don't even think about the Dodge.
EDIT: Also, Chevy is the only one to offer the Eaton G80 full locking rear differential. Ford and Dodge use a limited slip, which isn't nearly as good.
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im looking at diesel trucks...dont ask why i have always liked them. Anyway im looking at dodge and chevy, i dont want anything newer then a 04. i want to put a big fuel injection system with a turbo. I dont know much about diesel engines, but i hear cummin's engines are the best out there. Also another question, if i go with a turbo, should i go with a twin turbo or a single?
Edit: 4x4 aswell
The diesel price is higher than gas about 30-40 cents/gal , and Michigan is known for high diesel price, i never fill up in Mi. I live across the River, we have cold winters, i have problems cold starting after new ultra low sulfur was introduced. I'm not sure if you get same fuel at small car pumps, but the ULSD is blended with bio, pig fat and has higher gelling point, worst lube capacity for injectors and less energy/ volume than old low sulfur diesel fuel. My fuel filters got clogged many times in temps around 0-10F which is normal here in winter around Great Lakes. You need a good stronger battery for diesel, fuel additives in winter even if you use winterized diesel #1 fuel. I have a block heater in my truck and keep it plugged when is cold; the tanks ,fuel lines isolated also don't forget in cold weather you will get lower MPG in any diesel motor.Another problem is oil, i'm using only synthetic in winter time, are way better but more expensive.
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I have a 2500 HD Chevy with Duramax /Allison combo. I highly recommend it.
'06?
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'06?
'05
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You can't push start any of the common rail diesels unless you have replaced the alternator with a generator.
The newest US consumer truck you can push start in stock configuration is probably the 2002 cummins dodges.....and even then you will have to apply power to a solenoid to enable fuel injection.
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I have a 2500 HD Chevy with Duramax /Allison combo. I highly recommend it.
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/Mmytruck.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/045.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/Photo0435.jpg)
Don't ruin a beautiful truck with a lift kit :(
My dad had a 03 black just like that (extended cab, 2500hd vortec) with a Boss 7.6 vplow for the longest time, just bought a new 2011...thing drives like a Mercedes...unreal how far technology has come.
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Don't ruin a beautiful truck with a lift kit :(
My dad had a 03 black just like that (extended cab, 2500hd vortec) with a Boss 7.6 vplow for the longest time, just bought a new 2011...thing drives like a Mercedes...unreal how far technology has come.
Lifts don't look bad at all, although I prefer leveling kits
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You can't push start any of the common rail diesels unless you have replaced the alternator with a generator.
The newest US consumer truck you can push start in stock configuration is probably the 2002 cummins dodges.....and even then you will have to apply power to a solenoid to enable fuel injection.
'02 was an electronically controlled engine, so I doubt you could push start it. The last year for mechanical injection on the Cummins in Dodge's was '98. Even then it takes a good deal of power to get the fuel solenoid to hold in the up (run) position.
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Lifts don't look bad at all, although I prefer leveling kits
My truck only has a 6" lift to clear the 37.5 tires. It has airbag suspension on the rear to level when pulling heavy nosed trailer. Had gooseneck popup ball in bed. The rims are 22" forged aluminum and able to handle all the weight the truck is capable of.
When lift is necessary I see no issue. The trucks with 8" lift and small tires make me scratch my head. So do Body Lifts.
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My truck only has a 6" lift to clear the 37.5 tires. It has airbag suspension on the rear to level when pulling heavy nosed trailer. Had gooseneck popup ball in bed. The rims are 22" forged aluminum and able to handle all the weight the truck is capable of.
When lift is necessary I see no issue. The trucks with 8" lift and small tires make me scratch my head. So do Body Lifts.
and your truck's Ball Joints are being overworked due to the increase in weight.
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and your truck's Ball Joints are being overworked due to the increase in weight.
The truck is a 3/4 ton...... and is built plenty stout.
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The truck is a 3/4 ton...... and is built plenty stout.
Okeedokee.
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The Dodge diesel feels like a hot rod, without a load behind. My boat weights 5 tons, and the Ford pulls it with more ease. I just noticed it today pulling a trailer.
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The Dodge diesel feels like a hot rod, without a load behind. My boat weights 5 tons, and the Ford pulls it with more ease. I just noticed it today pulling a trailer.
What year Ford?
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03