Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: ink on October 16, 2011, 04:44:55 PM
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hopefully I am not stepping on any toes.....
I started....GA-V, 112 Squadron, Egypt, September 1942 flown by Neville Duke, the 112th was actually the first non Germans to use the Shark mouth, they were known as the "Shark mouth squadron"
hmm found this.....
"Curtiss Kittyhawk Mk. I, AK578. This option is another of Neville Duke’s machines and based at Gambut, Libya in the February of 1942"
very early in the process.....any P40 experts? I have a couple questions
I have seen the roundels on port side seem like it was painted over slightly so the bottom left of the roundel was gone..is that correct? if so was it on both sides?
there is so much conflicting info, one site said the belly was very dark and not the azure blue others are saying.....
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_02Oct161737.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_01Oct161737.jpg)
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oh oh oh :O. . . :aok
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Ink, my profile shows the same overpainting on the port side, though looking at it, I'd suggest that is due to the cammo being applied later, hence the starboard would not be overpainted if it is only on one colour.
I'd go with azure blue, pretty standard for the desert.
<S>
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Ink, my profile shows the same overpainting on the port side, though looking at it, I'd suggest that is due to the cammo being applied later, hence the starboard would not be overpainted if it is only on one colour.
I'd go with azure blue, pretty standard for the desert.
<S>
ya did exactly what ya suggest. :salute...still got a ways to go.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_04Oct170527.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_03Oct170526.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_05Oct170528.jpg)
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looking good so far :aok
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looking good so far :aok
Thank Ya bud :salute
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ink,
Could you link to us some photos you are using as reference? Thanks!
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ink,
Could you link to us some photos you are using as reference? Thanks!
will do
here is the only photo I have found of the actual plane, I used other profiles from the 112 to try to get the camo correct.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/1-Kittyhawk-RAAF-112sqn-GA-V-AK578-1942-02.jpg)
oh I lied....have one more, forgot about this one.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/raf112_warmup.jpg)
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Looking good so far Ink.
Here a very nice decal sheet that has some nice info on this plane.
http://barracudacals.com/proddetail.php?prod=BC72005
One thing though, maybe adjust your Azure Blue. It seems a little too purple.
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Here a very nice decal sheet that has some nice info on this plane.
http://barracudacals.com/proddetail.php?prod=BC72005
Be interesting if some one did that last profile. :bolt:
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Looking good so far Ink.
Here a very nice decal sheet that has some nice info on this plane.
http://barracudacals.com/proddetail.php?prod=BC72005
One thing though, maybe adjust your Azure Blue. It seems a little too purple.
I was thinking the same thing, it is from a color swatch from a modelers site....and then went elsewhere the other Azure blue I found was even more purpley, and thanks for that site..... :D
Be interesting if some one did that last profile. :bolt:
you like that one better? it was a toss up between the two, I chose the one I did because the shark mouth was different from all the rest, most are very similar from each other in the 112, but Dukes' plane had the most different, only reason I chose that particular plane.
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getting close to being done, all criticisms wanted :aok
have not done the paint chipping/dirt yet :old:
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_14Oct181607.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_17Oct181608.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_16Oct181607.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_15Oct181607.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_19Oct181609.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_18Oct181608.jpg)
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Looks good, ink. I would increase the opacity of the rivets a little bit. You want to be able to see the rivets, but don't make them so bold as to seem too obnoxious. You could maybe even add a subtle paint chip effect on some random rivets on the wings. Also, I would add a little bit of paint chipping in there (a little bit, mind you), perhaps around the wing roots. Be sure the paint/weathering around the wing roots blend well together. Perhaps add in a little bit of fading effect from being in the sun a lot.
Basically that sums it up. Just add in some subtle weathering details so that the skin doesn't look too "cartoonish" so to speak.
Best of luck.
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you like that one better? it was a toss up between the two, I chose the one I did because the shark mouth was different from all the rest, most are very similar from each other in the 112, but Dukes' plane had the most different, only reason I chose that particular plane.
I was being Cheeky I guess you did not catch what I meant.
The aircraft lettering?
Thought it was funny if some one flew around in game with that on the side. In light of how often it is mentioned on 200 when some one takes issue with something :uhoh
I know I am warped.
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Gun soot on the upper and lower wing is way too conspicuous in my opinion. Very few pictures of any aircraft from the war, that I have seen, have gun soot around the barrels. Some have gun soot on the ejection ports, but not the barrels. Also, I think the engine exhaust is a bit overdone. Otherwise, shaping up nicely...
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Looks good, ink. I would increase the opacity of the rivets a little bit. You want to be able to see the rivets, but don't make them so bold as to seem too obnoxious. You could maybe even add a subtle paint chip effect on some random rivets on the wings. Also, I would add a little bit of paint chipping in there (a little bit, mind you), perhaps around the wing roots. Be sure the paint/weathering around the wing roots blend well together. Perhaps add in a little bit of fading effect from being in the sun a lot.
Basically that sums it up. Just add in some subtle weathering details so that the skin doesn't look too "cartoonish" so to speak.
Best of luck.
I will do that, haven't done it yet, (the paint chipping that is)
when the squad got the planes, it was painted in the same camo but the "light stone" color was "Dark green" and all they did was paint over the dark green with light stone, so I am making it so the rivets under the light stone color is harder to see, due to more paint over them, it doesn't really show up great in those screenies but the rivets in the Dark Earth color are much easier to see.
I was being Cheeky I guess you did not catch what I meant.
The aircraft lettering?
Thought it was funny if some one flew around in game with that on the side. In light of how often it is mentioned on 200 when some one takes issue with something :uhoh
I know I am warped.
:rofl
right over my head...once again I call for a "right over the head smiley"
Gun soot on the upper and lower wing is way too conspicuous in my opinion. Very few pictures of any aircraft from the war, that I have seen, have gun soot around the barrels. Some have gun soot on the ejection ports, but not the barrels. Also, I think the engine exhaust is a bit overdone. Otherwise, shaping up nicely...
I was gonna lower it a bit, you suggest taking the gun soot right out?
thanx for the input guys much appreciated
:salute
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Keep up the good work Ink.
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Keep up the good work Ink.
Thank ya...will do :D
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For me ink I think the gun soot is fine but the exhaust looks bad,,,, also don't go away from your realism, as this looks cookie cutter, stay with your weathering of planes its just going to change for every plane less is more but don't take it away.
If you look carefully at Greebo, Fence and Cactus, espically Greebo, they have it, it's in the layering. I'm not a skinner and don't know how to show it but maybe you can make a dialog with 1 of them through pm's.
:salute
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For me ink I think the gun soot is fine but the exhaust looks bad,,,, also don't go away from your realism, as this looks cookie cutter, stay with your weathering of planes its just going to change for every plane less is more but don't take it away.
If you look carefully at Greebo, Fence and Catus, espically Greebo, they have it, it's in the layering. I'm not a skinner and don't know how to show it but maybe you can make a dialog with 1 of them through pm's.
:salute
ya I am gonna cut down the exhaust a little bit, but not a lot, been looking at crazy pics a lot have heavy exhaust and it ranges from white to black...and some do ga as far back as the lettering.
but ya I have not done any weathering yet...well minor, but No chipping....as you can see :D
I have some good idea's....trust me when I am done, this baby is gonna look like its been in a war :t
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ya I am gonna cut down the exhaust a little bit,
I could litter this thread with GA-... planes but here
this would match for what your going for
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/P-40-RAF-SAAF/RAF-112Sqn-GA-K/images/1-Kittyhawk-RAAF-112sqn-GA-K-01.jpg)
look at your own image ...do you see what you have portrayed?
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/1-Kittyhawk-RAAF-112sqn-GA-V-AK578-1942-02.jpg)
btw... by far the most famous plane from the 112 is Menace.
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I could litter this thread with GA-... planes but here
this would match for what your going for
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/P-40-RAF-SAAF/RAF-112Sqn-GA-K/images/1-Kittyhawk-RAAF-112sqn-GA-K-01.jpg)
look at your own image ...do you see what you have portrayed?
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/1-Kittyhawk-RAAF-112sqn-GA-V-AK578-1942-02.jpg)
btw... by far the most famous plane from the 112 is Menace.
:headscratch:
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Ink, its your skin buddy, just voicing my preference, based on historical pictures, versus a feature that's meant to spice up the skin. As for the exhaust soot, the color was a reflection of the mixture. A rich mixture produces black soot, and a lean mixture produces a whiter soot. You see more white soot later in the war, I suspect from the lessons learned about leaning the mixture to the absolute minimum that still keeps the engine inside its performance parameters.
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I am really enjoying making these, its been a long time since I have enjoyed art....my 5 year old boy is infatuated with the Shark teeth planes ( I think more then me haha) he loves looking at them....he is always asking me...is that a P40. :D
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_02Oct200530.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_03Oct200530.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_01Oct200530.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_04Oct200532.jpg)
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That's a nice skin Ink. I'd suggest toning down the rivets where they are exposed by paint chips a bit.
BTW I've noticed the gun staining on British aircraft is often quite heavy. I assume its because the British armed forces tended to use cordite bullet propellant rather than cleaner burning nitrocellulose. In this case though, I'd guess they'd be using US ammo.
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Ink, looking at your skin some more I've come to the conclusion that you should lighten the Middle Stone color a little. With your weathering, the colors don't contrast enough.
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I think it's Pretty good overall. I rather like the central belly area underneath (the oil etc) but what I don't like is 1 specific thing shown in a couple of areas.
The missing paint. It's just unrealistic the way portrayed. First the spinner. While there is a panel line on this, you never see it missing paint or flaking or anything like that. It's fairly well covered in paint, and the metal never shows through.
The second area is the wings leading edges. It just doesn't look accurate at all.
I think one thing that bothers me is the stark "full paint-to-bare metal" border with nothing in between. You jump from paint straight to the metal, bright as day. For example on the rear port window, those areas of bare metal wouldn't be there because you're showing a plane with multiple layers of field-applied paint. The same color covers up the yellow roundel ring, but up here has chipped off with nothing below it.
I know you like showing metal flakes, but might I suggest showing scratches instead? They can be just as effective. Say, for example, instead of metal showing you use that exact same layer/alpha/whatever and discolor the paint?
Just a thought and some explanation as to why. I do like it. I just don't think the spinner and wing leading edges "work" right for this or most planes.
:salute
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thanx for input guys
:salute
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Hi ink,
Great job. I love shark mouthed P-40s. I haven't done any skinning in AH for a while but I keep an eye on the new models coming out and the P-40 series has me opening up my books again.
Just thought I'd point out a couple of things as a self-proclaimed markings nerd... ;)
These aircraft would have been painted by Curtiss before delivery using American 'equivalent' colours to those specified by the RAF/Air Ministry, namely:
DuPont 71-009 Dark Earth (redder than the RAF's Dark Earth) and DuPont 71-013 Dark Green (bluer than the RAF's Dark Green) over DuPont 71-021 Sky Grey under surfaces. There were some P-40s in the AN serial block that had the under sides painted in US Light Blue 27, as also seen on some of the first Wildcats sent to the Med/N. Africa. Google these colours for appropriate RGB numbers to give you an idea. Keep in mind that it is open to argument whether any digital samples you find online are correct, or just closest possible approximations. Artistic license enters here :)
At any rate your choice of Azure Blue is correct for the time period as 112 Squadron started repainting in Azure Blue by the end of 1941.
The dark boxed area around the aircraft serial number should be green, not brown. The DuPont Dark Green portions of the camo would have been over sprayed in either Light Earth or Midstone once the aircraft left the Nile basin and started operating in the Western Desert. The serial blocks were masked before the over spray so anything located on a sandy coloured bit would have been green originally.
Markings would have been applied before delivery and RAF markings on P-40s were as such (I am giving you the ball park location, the actual finishing instructions would show actual measurements in inches from a set reference point for the center of each marking. ie: so many inches inboard of wing tip and so many inches aft from leading edge of wing...):
Upper wing 48" in diameter, centered fore and aft, with the inboard edge of the blue disc lying along an imaginary line running forwards from the inside front corner of the aileron.
Fuselage 35" in diameter as per the photo.
Lower wing 45" diameter, trailing edge at aileron hinge (see period photo), and moved inboard so it's centered with the aileron. The landing light will end up in the blue portion of the marking on the left wing.
Fin flash is 24" wide (8" stripes) by 27" high, trailing edge of blue stripe lined up at gap between fin and rudder and base of marking along bottom of fin.
Again, these are the "Standard" placements, period photos will always have the last say.
Your under wing roundels look as though they have a slight white outline, did you use a pre-made marking sheet like Simmer's Paintshop has or did you make your own markings? I make my own RAF roundels for every aircraft type (different types used different diameters on wings) as resizing pre-made ones doesn't give you as sharp a marking. I can show you how to do it, just shoot me a PM. As for marking colours, most of the BS 381C paint numbers as used by the RAF in WW2 do not exist on the modern colour charts today so usually any reference to a Federal Standards equivalent is only a "closest match", not an actual match, so use your best judgement :)
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Jocko....awesome response thank you very much....I knew that the planes were painted and then repainted after, I actually try to show that, if you really look close the color around the serial numbers is raf dark green...at least that's what it is supposed to be and (its seems like it is green but a brown green)
I have a layer of that dark green under the stone color and that's the darker spots were the paint chips off, I chipped the stone color and dark green color but left some dark green showing through.
although I didn't use dupont colors, I used the RAF colors that I found....so that could be why the dark green is more brown.....
as far as placement of the markings go I eyeball it so to speak....I would have no clue as to how to get the measurements exactly correct, heck I didn't know what the correct measurements were, like I said just eyeballed them.
posting two sceens of the dark green showing through, and the serial numbers up close.
I also tried to make the chipping smaller, I am using a 1 pixel brush.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_11Oct211711.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_13Oct211714.jpg)
and KRUSTY if you look at one of those screens you will see....layers haha 31 for this skin....so ya you were right its is much better/easier with just about everything on its own layer.
I noticed something that none of you guys noticed.....this plane is supposed to have a Yellow leading edge...DOH :bhead
again I appreciate all the comments and input :salute
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worked on it for a couple hours today after reading your comments...thanx for all the input
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_15Oct220007.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_19Oct220011.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_23Oct220012.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_22Oct220011.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_18Oct220008.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/ScreenHunter_17Oct220008.jpg)
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Looks good ink.
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Actually I don't think it has yellow leading edge ID stripes. That wasn't found on P-40s.
I think what you are seeing is the camo wrapping under the leading edge of the wing (vs stopping halfway down, it wrapped then stopped)
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Actually I don't think it has yellow leading edge ID stripes. That wasn't found on P-40s.
I think what you are seeing is the camo wrapping under the leading edge of the wing (vs stopping halfway down, it wrapped then stopped)
I find myself in agreement. Just doesn't seem like a thing that would be on a P-40. I could very well be wrong though.
HOWEVER. Looking at your reference image from page 1, it seems that there is a leading edge.
I saw it as yellow/gold at first, then dismissed it as camo. I looked closer and it appears to be about the same colour as
the edge of the roundel on the fuselage.
Upon further inspection, ^^^ the other two aicraft in your reference image don't appear to have that leading edge at all.
I think it could very well have been the contrast created by the sun lighting the top part of the wing and the shadows
underneath.
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The weathering on the bottom of the plane is some of the best I've seen--looks really good Ink...
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The weathering on the bottom of the plane is some of the best I've seen--looks really good Ink...
:o
Thank You
Actually I don't think it has yellow leading edge ID stripes. That wasn't found on P-40s.
I think what you are seeing is the camo wrapping under the leading edge of the wing (vs stopping halfway down, it wrapped then stopped)
some did some didn't from what I have read.
found a couple more shots of 112 sqn. p40's that had it. GA-V was not the only one.
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/kittyhawk_tripolitania.jpg)
(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/p40_gac1.jpg)
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ink, i just cant like your skins. i mean don't get me wrong, their beautifully made. and your great at what you do. I just hate the amount of weathering on them. :(
I guess im weird. I don't like so much weathering to the point that i think it ruins the looks of the nice skin.
But other than the weathering. wtg :aok
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ink, i just cant like your skins. i mean don't get me wrong, their beautifully made. and your great at what you do. I just hate the amount of weathering on them. :(
I guess im weird. I don't like so much weathering to the point that i think it ruins the looks of the nice skin.
But other than the weathering. wtg :aok
Thank ya.....its all good man to each his own. :aok
me I love the look of a battle hardened plane....
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I like the weathering. When a person looks at all the custom skins available the ones with a bit of weathering seem to be more realistic. Not that the "perfect" skins are not eye catching, etc, but the weathered and war weary skins just have a bit more persona about them.
I like Ink's weathering, I say keep on doing it! :aok
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I like the weathering. When a person looks at all the custom skins available the ones with a bit of weathering seem to be more realistic. Not that the "perfect" skins are not eye catching, etc, but the weathered and war weary skins just have a bit more persona about them.
I like Ink's weathering, I say keep on doing it! :aok
Thank ya....I cant help it..... to me, it has to look like that.
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Ink, you keep using terms like "battle hardened" and "looks like it's really gone to WAR" but I can't help and nitpick that the two are not connected. Some of the most pristine rides have seen the worst kind of combat. Often front line fighter aircraft are given the most attention to keep them maintained and finished properly. You never knew when replacements could arrive, and the longevity of an airframe revolved around making sure it was repaired and repainted regularly...
While I don't agree with your weathering choices, I can overlook some of that. I just can't overlook the use of these kind of terms. They are misleading, I think.
As I said, a nitpick, but an honest one.
EDIT: As a side note, it does no disservice or dishonor to the people in the actual WW2 to skin these craft "normal" looking. Just sayin'...
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Ink, you keep using terms like "battle hardened" and "looks like it's really gone to WAR" but I can't help and nitpick that the two are not connected. Some of the most pristine rides have seen the worst kind of combat. Often front line fighter aircraft are given the most attention to keep them maintained and finished properly. You never knew when replacements could arrive, and the longevity of an airframe revolved around making sure it was repaired and repainted regularly...
While I don't agree with your weathering choices, I can overlook some of that. I just can't overlook the use of these kind of terms. They are misleading, I think.
As I said, a nitpick, but an honest one.
EDIT: As a side note, it does no disservice or dishonor to the people in the actual WW2 to skin these craft "normal" looking. Just sayin'...
.....forget it man
you just wont get it.
I suggested in the past you put me on ignore...making that suggestion once more :pray
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I'm someone who tends to go heavy on weathering as well. Sometimes I will spend days seesawing between thinking I have too much or too little dirt and paint chips on a skin before finalizing it. To some extent I pick subjects that have photos that clearly show wear and tear, since I find the dirtying down process the most interesting bit of the skin.
You have to consider the environment the plane was operating in. Photos of planes operating in the desert war often show areas of paint sandblasted away, particularly those areas in the propwash and where mechanics operated. The paint is often bleached by the sun and oil and sand mix together to stain the undersides. The lack of paint on an airframe would be less of an issue than in say Europe where water might cause corrosion.
I can't see quite as much weathering in the photos of the plane as there is on this skin, but its often hard to tell from black and white photos. I've seen colour photos of desert based Spits that are this beaten up though, so I'd say this skin has a reasonable representation of the wear and tear of that theater.
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Actually I don't think it has yellow leading edge ID stripes. That wasn't found on P-40s.
I think what you are seeing is the camo wrapping under the leading edge of the wing (vs stopping halfway down, it wrapped then stopped)
Maybe they were purple?
(http://www.mts.net/~royb/images/raf112takeoff.jpg)
(http://www.mts.net/~royb/images/LtUsher1a.jpg)
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Maybe they were purple?
(http://www.mts.net/~royb/images/raf112takeoff.jpg)
(http://www.mts.net/~royb/images/LtUsher1a.jpg)
:lol
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Actually I don't think it has yellow leading edge ID stripes. That wasn't found on P-40s.
you are wrong.
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3 squadron RAAF leading edges were painted yellow as well.
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3 squadron RAAF leading edges were painted yellow as well.
That's where he got the monkey :O
(http://www.mts.net/~royb/images/112_unknown.jpg)
"DMGod and his stolen inspiration who served in #112 Sqdn in the Gladiator days, seen here gallivanting around with the squad for a few weeks in 1942. The monkey was "TheeDMBuzz" a mascot of "DMTiny" from 3 sqdn RAAF."
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Ahh, there ya have it!
Interesting find... as I've not seen that before. I've seen a number of desert P-40 photos, as well. I am wondering now (and suspect also) if the yellow was overpainted during the first maintenance procedure and that is why later photos don't have it...
Good find.
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That's where he got the monkey :O
(http://www.mts.net/~royb/images/112_unknown.jpg)
"DMGod and his stolen inspiration who served in #112 Sqdn in the Gladiator days, seen here gallivanting around with the squad for a few weeks in 1942. The monkey was "TheeDMBuzz" a mascot of "DMTiny" from 3 sqdn RAAF."
Same fellow I would think?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/s_w14_20215010.jpg)
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I can't speak to the actual degree of weathering on front line fighters, although you can believe I will be asking several 325th pilots I stay in touch with. You have my curiosity up. I will say this... We all are used to seeing better than factory new birds at airshows and museums. Mustangs with deep clearcoat finishes whose paint weight must equal the armour they just removed. That's OK, but when i was at the Gathering of Mustangs a few years ago the plane I most remember was "Twilight Tear", a B model shipped over from Stephen Grey's Fighter Collection. She was crated and then reassembled and flown in just after a major front had passed through. I remember stopping to look at her and it struck me that this had to be the most beaten up P51 at the gathering. Exhaust stains, a goodly bend in the dorsal fin from careless ground handling. Nicks and dings...weathered. To me it was absolutely beautiful. Grey told me they made a deliberate point of keeping the bird like that as a kind of tribute. Right on.
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ink, I just like the amount of weathering on your skin, its amazing!
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ink, I just like the amount of weathering on your skin, its amazing!
thanx man :salute