Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: shotgunneeley on October 17, 2011, 10:34:22 PM
-
I'm currently a senior in college majoring in Forestry and minoring in GIS (Geographic Information System). I'm really interested in serving in the military after I graduate in May and I'm thinking the best thing to do with my background would be to work with electronics, particularly GPS and satellite imaging. Air Force would be the logical choice since they are the primary operators of GPS and satellite vehicles, but I'm sure every branch has the need for this kind of work. I'm open to go anywhere this particular skill is needed, but I'd rather not be stuck behind a computer indoors (I do understand the need for it, though). Anybody here have any experience with this particular field of the military?
-
Space command in the USAF would be a logical place, except... They do their work indoors in front of a computer. A 50 billion dollar computer inside a trillion dollar hole in the ground, but it's still working on a computer indoors.
Go to a recruiter and see what they have to say. Don't pay any attention to the enlisted career fields since your degree is already almost done, focus on where they can place you as an officer doing something you are interested in. The military has WAAAAY too many things that suck about it, to be doing something you don't like. But don't join up unless you really want to do it, because right now they're kicking out people who love their jobs and you probably shouldn't be taking a spot if your heart and soul isn't into it.
-
Try artillery... Lots of surveying and all the assorted math, etc... Plus, its outdoors, and you get to blow toejam up... Marines or Army, take your choice...
-
Hey are you at UAM?
Like said above Air Force would be good. Also look into the Navy and AF intel fields as well.
It would be a good idea to go talk to or talk on the phone with some officer recruiters. Tell them where your interests are and then go research the programs.
-
Hey are you at UAM?
Yep, home of the "I'll show you f***ing stupid" Boll Weevils.
I'm not looking for a full career in the military; just plan on serving for an enlistment period applying what I know and learning new skills. I feel like it's something I should do because I deeply enjoy military history, particularly WW2. I believe it's an experience I don't want to miss out on because I love my country and hold in the highest respect those who have fought and died for her. I'll definitely talk to a recruiter for their opinions on where I should go, I just wanted to hear some non-biased advice from those who have already gone through it.
-
If you go into the military you should be aware that no matter what branch of service, they will place you where THEY think they need you not where you want to go. You lose the option of choice, especially when you enlist vs going Officer. If you go enlisted do not be real surprised if they plunk you down doing convoy ops in the 'Stan instead of using your shiny degree.
If you go Officer you will likely have a minimum 6 to 8 year commitment. Now that will include Reserve time as well so it is not necessarily all full time green machine. (or whatever flavor / color service you enter) You will have a far better chance of using the degree or skill you have than as enlisted.
If you serve, they (being the service) will tell you where, when and how to serve. If you know that ahead of time you won't be nearly as disappointed than if you listen to the recruiters claims about being in the Army with the condos. (That came from a goldy hawn movie, funny but had some truth to it.)
-
Personally, I would recommend you do something far away from what you "know" in your civilian life. Had I enlisted to sit around and mess with computers all day, I would have gone crazy. Granted I know a good deal about them but the experience of doing this job in the military is completely different. Plus, a lot of that satellite mumbo jumbo is largely handled by civilians now.
So if you want to experience something that you'll never have the chance to do in the civilian life, go Infantry.
Then, once your 4 years are up, take that pretty GI Bill they give you and get more schooling. With a military background, lots of schooling, you will end up being one of those over paid civilian "experts" the military employs.
If you go into the military you should be aware that no matter what branch of service, they will place you where THEY think they need you not where you want to go. You lose the option of choice, especially when you enlist vs going Officer. If you go enlisted do not be real surprised if they plunk you down doing convoy ops in the 'Stan instead of using your shiny degree.
If you go Officer you will likely have a minimum 6 to 8 year commitment. Now that will include Reserve time as well so it is not necessarily all full time green machine. (or whatever flavor / color service you enter) You will have a far better chance of using the degree or skill you have than as enlisted.
If you serve, they (being the service) will tell you where, when and how to serve. If you know that ahead of time you won't be nearly as disappointed than if you listen to the recruiters claims about being in the Army with the condos. (That came from a goldy hawn movie, funny but had some truth to it.)
The Army lets you choose if you are qualified for the job you want and there is an opening for it. And don't become an "O"... no body likes O's :bolt:
-
Make sure you specifically go talk to an "officer" recruiter.
-
yea im gonna agree with alot of the comments above that say Dont become a Butter bar. Commissioned Officers can be a pain in the ***. Im not too fond of them. Plus if u do, u'll likley do ur job for a little bit then u'll get stuck doing Staff Duty work for Battalion of Brigade. not fun stuff.
If you enlist, start off with the shortest enlistment contract. That way u can always re-enlist if u feel like it. its better to be on the safe side. There is a bunch of Intelligence jobs int he Army, and in some of them u get to Interrogate people to, that'd be fun.
Just, expect alot of bs. thats how the Military operates.
And about being tasked to do a diffrent job while deployed, Im pretty sure that u'll only do that if your current job is not needed. Like im deployed right now, and the 2-8 FA (Artillary) is doing PSD and ECP security. because since we r near a population center we dont need Howitzers. But if ur intel, im pretty sure u'll actually do ur job. it is possible u could be tasked to so ECP or convoys but i'd say unlikely for that job.
-
The Army lets you choose if you are qualified for the job you want and there is an opening for it. And don't become an "O"... no body likes O's :bolt:
The Army lets you choose a primary and secondary MOS. If the primary is full you can get the secondary. If it's full well better hope they don't need cooks or latrine scrubbers. In my case both my primary and secondary choices were not needed at the time so I was giving the option of a third that was in the same MOS series but a completely different job from what I wanted.
-
you can work for the military as a civilian. no need to sign yourself up to their whims. Better pay too.
...unless you're going for military/veteran benefits though.
-
And don't become an "O"... no body likes O's :bolt:
I was an "O"... Bottom line is that if you want to stare at satellite photos all day, best to do that outside of the military. Most of that stuff gets handled by either civilian agencies or higher headquarters. What you get at the user level has already been processed by someone else. And, don't just join to go into the "intelligence" field. You get sent to an alpha unit, you're more likely to be processing security clearances and monitoring the CMS or CMCC vault. It would take you a while to get to the upper level intelligence work, and even then, most of the time, you're simply compiling information that some other agency already processed. When I was deployed with my MEUs, we did have topo guys that had software to make custom mapping products, but that was pretty niche stuff. I had a friend that worked at CENTCOM G-2, and all he did was put PP presentations together using information provided (mostly) from civilian agencies. He didn't actually do the analysis.
Perhaps there's an Agency recruiter that visits your campus each year? I'd recommend that if you want to analysis--that job can vary from a desk job to other things that are very exotic... If there's not a recruiter, you can check out their website--it has recruiting and position information on it. Some of their most famous field officers sort of stumbled into the job, rather than having life-long ambitions for it...
-
I'm currently a senior in college majoring in Forestry and minoring in GIS (Geographic Information System). I'm really interested in serving in the military after I graduate in May and I'm thinking the best thing to do with my background would be to work with electronics, particularly GPS and satellite imaging. Air Force would be the logical choice since they are the primary operators of GPS and satellite vehicles, but I'm sure every branch has the need for this kind of work. I'm open to go anywhere this particular skill is needed, but I'd rather not be stuck behind a computer indoors (I do understand the need for it, though). Anybody here have any experience with this particular field of the military?
:uhoh :confused: @ suggestions so far... really... really guys?...
Navy Construction Battalion (SeaBees (C-Bs), might be interesting as they still deal with WWII sites and were founded during WWII) OR Army Core of Engineers, both would highly value and greatly utilise your GIS background.
http://www.seabee.navy.mil/
http://www.usace.army.mil/Pages/default.aspx
If you want to sign and join up for a few years, serve and maybe get outa the country, I'd go SeaBee myself. But there are a lot more civilian opportunities with the ACE, so if that's your cup of tea and you're hoping to stay home and likely do things within our borders more often than not (but also likely a lot more desk time) then maybe they'd be the best to talk to. Hit up the Navy and Army recruiters, they LOVE talking, especialy if you show a solid interest down a narrow carrer path that they can find a spot for you.
Make sure you specifically go talk to an "officer" recruiter.
This too, and make sure they're the best guy within driving distance to talk to about what you're specificaly interested in.
Edited for spelling - running on 2.5hrs sleep and 5 cups of coffee.
-
yea im gonna agree with alot of the comments above that say Dont become a Butter bar.
I hate to be blunt about it and I'll probably piss off some people, but here's the truth you may not hear anywhere else.
E: You are told where to live, what to eat, when to eat, how to wash and fold your clothes, etc etc., for YEARS.
O: Once you pin on your 1Lt bars, you follow the rules however you see fit, and either reap the benefits or suffer the consequences.
Pay: An officer with 5 years in will make more base pay than a senior NCO with 16 years in. By the time an officer starts thinking about whether to make it a career or not at the 14ish year point, the officer may be pulling in somewhere around 2x to 3x the pay of an enlisted soldier that has more time in service.
That career-minded officer is also looking at a promotion to O-4 which is both a hefty increase in pay as well as a huge increase in responsibility and authority. If you want to raise a family, even a junior captain has an easier time of it financially than a master sergeant. The bennies are simply better, in return for service filled with vague and conflicting expectations including the requirement that the officer figures out what needs doing without being told, and does it better than anyone else while making both his boss and subordinates look and feel good about it. The expectations, authority, and responsibility start out high, so the compensation package is likewise high(er). Whether you like this or not, it's how the military has been run for centuries and for very good reasons outlined by military geniuses dead hundreds or thousands of years ago.
On the other hand, I have heard MANY MANY enlisted soldiers comment that they simply worry less about random stupid crap than officers. That is probably true, in my experience. Still, I really like the rules I have lived under since my commissioning when compared to the rules even senior NCOs live under. As long as I do my job, which has both very specific and very broad requirements, I pretty much set my own rules within a handful of guidelines set by my boss and the squadron commander. Guess what - many of those rules the boss sets were suggested by me or people like me who hate stupid rules. So even though I still work my 12 hr days like everyone else, I have a lot of flexibility on when and how I get the job done and that makes the job much more personally satisfying to me.
If you don't want the responsibility that gets dumped on officers but you still want an awesome career or job in the military, then please find any recruiter asap and sign up for whatever you are interested in. There are tons of great enlisted jobs and people keep signing up, and the enlisted airmen and soldiers I work with are generally happy and highly motivated, so the life is good both ways.
Everyone has their own preferences, but given a chance to do it over again I'd still go back and suffer through 4 years at the Academy in order to get the career path I chose the first time. No regrets here over my decision to go officer instead of enlisted. When given the choice to be the guy who gets to decide which hill to attack in a suicidal infantry charge, or the poor guy waiting for the jerkwad idiot Lt to pick which hill we're all gonna die on today, I'd rather be the jerkwad Lt. But that's just me.
Oh yea... Just like a dumb officer who doesn't respect and care for his troops can kill unit morale and effectiveness, there are also few things as detrimental to unit cohesiveness as an NCO who is "too smart" and who uses that as an excuse to sidestep the chain of command. Occasionally we get an over-educated NCO who doesn't have enough common sense to add a bit of real wisdom to their education, and they can really bring down a unit. Many of these types would have made fine officers, but some are simply overeducated idiots. My point being if you want to run things eventually instead of always being on the receiving end of the never-ending stream of poop that runs from top to bottom, and if you already have the degree required to be an officer, then you should seriously consider getting a commission as an officer instead of enlisting. You and the people you work with will be happier if that's the case :)
Last word - we're hitting a phase of severe military cutbacks right now so if you don't want to be in the military for the job, then seriously don't sign up at all. Lots of good people are getting kicked out and the system occasionally lets the jerks and slackers stay in while booting out people who would give anything to stay in. It's going to be a rough decade ahead for the military, no question about it. We're fighting 4 simultaneous wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and as of yesterday we're sending ground troops to some other African country), while being told we're going to have to do it with fewer people, will be spending less money on equipment, and oh by the way as soon as possible they're going to make the ENTIRE pay/benefits package cheaper which means pay rate freezes, less retirement pay, and fewer medical benefits that cost more out of pocket. It's going to take a little bit more dedication I think, because the compensation for dedicating your life to serving your country is about to get a lot smaller, while the people cutting your pay still take their long vacations, bank their big paychecks, and get a full pension after serving just 4 years in DC. Don't sign up if that's gonna get in the way of doing the job 'cause that's how it is.
-
Eagle, with respect, that's one of the worst synopses I've ever seen about the choice between enlisting or becoming an officer. I know corporals that have tremendous amounts of responsibility. That being said, you become an officer because you want the responsibility, the challenge, the burden of decision-making, and to be the example/mentor the enlisted people need, and not because the pay is better... There were days when I felt I was overpaid, and days when I figured the American tax payer got a bargain. All part of the life.
To the OP, make the choice you want, for the reasons you want. If you want to only enlist, then just enlist and thrive doing so. As an enlisted man, you will still have responsibility--on some days more than on others. Last, there's a shooting war going on now, so make sure you've considered the ramifications of that. Its a job where on any given day, you can be killed. And, as sure as Christ made little apples, you'll find yourself in Afghanistan chasing insurgents or being shot at by them, regardless of your specialty or rank...
-
:bhead
It wasn't supposed to be either "good" or "comprehensive". It's just some points that people don't talk about because it's uncomfortable to talk about these things, and a recruiter probably won't discuss them. :noid
-
Hey bud, I am currently serving on active duty as an engineer officer. We own the geospatial stuff within the is army. If you want to talk to the guy in charge of geospatial training pm me your email and I will put you in touch with him. The facts for the army are:
1. Enlisted: enter as a specialist and be a geospatial guy for a hitch and learn lots, get out with valid skills.
2. Go as a warrant officer: spend a career doing nothing but geospatial stuff.
3. Go as an officer: spend three to five years in twenty within that field. The way assignments work there are few billets for captains and lts that are in these fields. You would have to want to serve in the corps of engineers later on on your career.
Regardless the thing to keep in mind at your age is picking a profession that can grow with you as you mature. I joined the army out of jc and twenty years later have not looked back. Every new job is a bit different. Anyhow if you want to talk to the army guy on this shoot me an email.
-
Eagle, spot on in several points you made. :aok
There are good officers and bad ones, just like there are good enlisted and bad ones. The presence or absence of brass on the uniform is no guaranty that the individual wearing it is worth a damn. A good Officer, especially a junior one, will listen to the NCO's input and then make a decision. Decisions are what they get paid for. It's a shame that so much is dumped on shoulders that are so young and inexperienced but that is the way of the world and has been since before the phalanx was invented.
My step son wanted a career in the navy but worked under a petty officer (NCO) who was a real jerk and wouldn't let his application for diver go forward. He got out on his first enlistment.
I had a combat vet (Nam) E-7 turn down a transfer with a promotion to stay in my Company as a Plt Sgt. That was one of the greatest compliments I ever received in the Army. My First Sgt. in that company is one of my best friends even todayas a retired Command Sgt Major. Another of my Plt Sgt's also made E9. On the other hand I don't have any contact with one of my Lt Plt Ldrs and don't think any of them stayed with the Army at all, but my last XO is now a full bull. My first XO I went through the channels I could to end his career because of the poisonous individual he was. I wasn't a great leader IMO but I am proud to have earned the respect of my NCO's.
-
:bhead
It wasn't supposed to be either "good" or "comprehensive". It's just some points that people don't talk about because it's uncomfortable to talk about these things, and a recruiter probably won't discuss them. :noid
I know you're in a flying squadron environment, and that has its own nuances, but there should still be some basic interdependence in the relationships that exist between the leadership and the airmen. I pretty much split my time between flying squadrons and ground units, and recognized the difference, but the core attitudes between enlisted and officer were nothing like what you described--my experience anyway. :salute
-
All very good posts guys, I appreciate the input.
Yeah, I'm juggling a lot of options of what I want to do after college. (God is probably having a good laugh at my plans and ideas for the future!)
1.) I want to get an MBA, so I could turn around once I graduate and put another two years in school before I do anything with the military. Since I have a full paid academic scholarship, using the GI bill in order to get my Masters doesn't really affect me. Maybe by then conditions (i.e. the economy, budget cuts, job loss) will be more favorable than they are now.
2.) Again, I'm not really looking for a career ("working my way up the chain") in the military and I'm not motivated by salary. The main factors that drive me to want to join is for the experience, patriotic pride and a sense of duty. I don't want to pass up this moment in my life and look back later on with regret. At the moment, I would truly rather be an enlisted man than an officer because I'm not planning on lasting more than four years (unless there is a need or emergency situation). I view our country's soldiers with pride and respect and I want to honor the sacrifices made by our defenders and protectors any way I can.
3.) The Reserves/National Guard is also an option because I'm fortunate that I do have a job waiting for me when I get out of school. Right now, this is only a consideration once my 4-year enlistment period is up in order to stay active and updated to assist in a national emergency.
My dream job would be to work in the field providing GIS/GPS support in a way that gets me in an aircraft. I know GIS/GPS is used for navigation, coordination, and planning in the field and that's how I want to be involved. Oh, and I fully understand the potential risks to my health and wellbeing. I don't want to jinx myself so I'll leave it at that.
-
If you want to get into an aerial platform, move to remote sensing.....
-
I want to get an MBA
One of my Lieutenants in Okinawa had an MBA from Kellogg of all places before he applied to OCS. So, that certainly doesn't close any doors for you. He's still in now, a Major. I'd never thought he'd still be around, but he enjoys it, so...
-
One of the finest CMSgts I ever worked with had a PhD and 3 or 4 Masters degrees. Early in an enlisted airman's career though, it can be tougher to do the extra schoolwork that it often is early in an officer's career. We have a bunch of Lts working on their masters degrees and all of our enlisted troops that want to get promoted are working at the very least on their CCAF and many plan on getting a bachelors degree, but it seems like the junior enlisted troops are busting their butts learning their primary jobs and don't seem to have the time on or off duty for outside degrees until they have a few years in. The Lts on the other hand are seeing the first signs of massive personnel shakeups, which is leading them to start advanced degrees almost immediately.
We just had our unit's first "normal" (ie. not being punished for something) lieutenant passed over for Captain... None of us know why other than we were warned that this year, promotion to captain would be "competitive" for the first time in decades. Well, a pretty good officer, pilot, and leader just got kicked hard in the nuts by the AF. They put him through pilot training and he's in an important junior leadership position as a 1Lt, and he still got passed over. Sucks, and the AF is probably going to lose a valuable and expensive asset when he goes to fly for the airlines or do some other decent civvy job 8-16 years earlier than is usual for someone with his training and abilities.
And of course, the AF will probably realize its mistake in a few years and offer him a fat check to come back on active duty because he'll be carrying a few million bucks in training out the door with him...
-
basicly this boils down to.. go Warrent Officer. all WO's do is THERE job, nothing else, and they are the best at it.
-
Wow a "normal" passed over for Captain. That usually is an automatic if you do your job good at that level. People will be looking for civilian jobs (if any available).
-
Got to remember that the AF is a bit "Officer heavy" as they do the majority of the combat jobs (flying) for that branch compared to say the Army. Last time I was in DM AFB store in March I was looking at the AF Times and saw that there was a notice the AF was looking at a significant reduction in mid grade Officers. That means Cpt and Maj in the middle of their career. If you have been around a while like I have you can see the signs pointing to a serious RIF coming. Look to the services, all of them, dropping more numbers and still having to do more than ever before.
The incidence of PTSD problems is going to go up long before it goes down as we abuse those who choose to serve.
-
we abuse those who choose to serve.
We don't abuse those who choose to serve, its just that that condition, in particular, is difficult to diagnose and treat. That being said, regardless of any force reductions, the VA is better equipped than ever to assist those exiting the force. They've opened tons of new clinics, have added doctors, etc. I am a VA consumer myself, and have been pretty happy with them...
-
Everyone is downsizing. The is will have to decide make some policy decisions regarding our ability to fight a two front war. They have made a decision to cut the dod budget without first developing the foreign policy which would support a military operating at lower budget levels.
Regardless times will be tough and for the first time in ten years we will start flushing the turds from the military who have been allowed to stay in due to operational necessity. My MAJ board promoted 80% which is well on its way down to the traditional 60% of the old days. (year before was 98%)
So Neely in short whatever job you find just make sure it is a profession. I would hate to have another job.
-
We don't abuse those who choose to serve, its just that that condition, in particular, is difficult to diagnose and treat. That being said, regardless of any force reductions, the VA is better equipped than ever to assist those exiting the force. They've opened tons of new clinics, have added doctors, etc. I am a VA consumer myself, and have been pretty happy with them...
The abuse is not the treatment for PTSD. I was referring to abuse by expecting too much from too few given the current load being carried by the smaller and soon to be even smaller force. Combat tours numbering upwards of 5+ for some full time military folks and more than 3 by Guard and Reserves.
-
UPDATE:
I graduated back in May with a B.S. in Forestry with a minor in the Geospatial Information System (GIS) field and am now working on a two year MBA program. Still single and no dependencies. :joystick:
I took a big step the other day by going to see an officer recruiter for the Arkansas National Guard. He was very unbiased and I felt he laid out the pros/cons very well. I told him about my education background and how I wanted to get more advanced "hands on" training with any GIS/satelite imagery/mapping positions in the ANG. As an officer, he told me that the job would be much more generalized compared to an enlisted position and I'd have to be prepared to lead a platoon of men at whatever calling was needed. As an enlistee, the job would be much more specific compared to the officer position and I'd get the advanced "hands on" training that I wanted. He told me going "enlisted" I'd get the best of both worlds as I could get the 15 week advanced training after basic and if I ever decided to I could apply for OCS later. I really like this route as I would get to learn and apply something to the military as well as my day job. As I sit right now, I don't plan on making a full-time career out of the military and I'm not looking to build my resume for the job hunt. I understand that at any time I could get deployed, but hopefully I can get into a job field that uses this GIS mapping technology and does not serve a front-line combat role. I'm going to keep an eye on the possibility of the Air National Guard as well since they have jobs in this field and are less likely to get put in a hot zone. Next thing to do is to go talk to an "enlistment" recruiter.
The one potential health issue I've had that could derail everything is that I was diagnosed with May-Thurner Syndrome back in 2010 (where the Iliac artery overlaps and compresses the Iliac vein causing blood flow from the legs to be restricted. The build up in pressure developed vascular ulcers on my ankles that turned into a 6 year nightmare). I have two stints in the vein at the compression site in my abdomen and now the vascular ulcers are healed but still vulnerable. The officer recruiter I met is further looking into this and will email me later with a verdict.
-
UPDATE:
I graduated back in May with a B.S. in Forestry with a minor in the Geospatial Information System (GIS) field and am now working on a two year MBA program. Still single and no dependencies. :joystick:
I took a big step the other day by going to see an officer recruiter for the Arkansas National Guard. He was very unbiased and I felt he laid out the pros/cons very well. I told him about my education background and how I wanted to get more advanced "hands on" training with any GIS/satelite imagery/mapping positions in the ANG. As an officer, he told me that the job would be much more generalized compared to an enlisted position and I'd have to be prepared to lead a platoon of men at whatever calling was needed. As an enlistee, the job would be much more specific compared to the officer position and I'd get the advanced "hands on" training that I wanted. He told me going "enlisted" I'd get the best of both worlds as I could get the 15 week advanced training after basic and if I ever decided to I could apply for OCS later. I really like this route as I would get to learn and apply something to the military as well as my day job. As I sit right now, I don't plan on making a full-time career out of the military and I'm not looking to build my resume for the job hunt. I understand that at any time I could get deployed, but hopefully I can get into a job field that uses this GIS mapping technology and does not serve a front-line combat role. I'm going to keep an eye on the possibility of the Air National Guard as well since they have jobs in this field and are less likely to get put in a hot zone. Next thing to do is to go talk to an "enlistment" recruiter.
The one potential health issue I've had that could derail everything is that I was diagnosed with May-Thurner Syndrome back in 2010 (where the Iliac artery overlaps and compresses the Iliac vein causing blood flow from the legs to be restricted. The build up in pressure developed vascular ulcers on my ankles that turned into a 6 year nightmare). I have two stints in the vein at the compression site in my abdomen and now the vascular ulcers are healed but still vulnerable. The officer recruiter I met is further looking into this and will email me later with a verdict.
first day i got to boot camp they told us that whatever the recruiting officer told us was a lie and he did it to make us enlist. that was a weight off my shoulders but some others got dissapoint4ed.
semp
-
first day i got to boot camp they told us that whatever the recruiting officer told us was a lie and he did it to make us enlist. that was a weight off my shoulders but some others got dissapoint4ed.
semp
QFT. Lots of "specialized" enlisted USAF troops I know trained in one field, deployed to combat as rent-a-cops or convoy duty as army augmentees, then after they returned they were told that their original training field was overmanned and they could re-train all over again or get out. Of course they have PTSD or brain or other major injuries, but their enlistment expired before their diagnosis and disability determination comes through so they got discharged and now have to fight the VA for 2 years to get any sort of compensation for the brain injuries they suffered when their convoys got repeatedly blown up during their year playing Army.