Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Melvin on October 20, 2011, 11:06:33 PM
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So I was always taught to shoot with open sights before I was allowed to advance to a scoped rifle.
This is the way I have taught and am still teaching my children.
I have a friend that bought his son a scoped rifle to learn with. He felt the instant gratification would be good for his willingness to learn. I told him he was doing the boy a great disservice.
So, what do you gents think and how do you go about it?
Open sights or optics for children learning to shoot? You make the call.
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I never even use scopes anyways. Works fine for me. :cheers:
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It's a lot easier to shoot with a scope, so I say you need to learn with the iron sights. If you normally shoot with the iron sights and you pick up something with a scope you'll do alright, if you normally shoot with a scope and you pick up something with an iron sight you'll suck.
Also I think that it's more fun to shoot with an iron sight.
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I'd go with a target rifle with adjustable peep sights! after learn how to use them you can shoot anything.
:salute
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I know when I was growing up, scopes were not allowed in our gun collection. The only gun with a scope was my dads 25-06
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Open sights. Lay the Foundation and then move them to a scoped firearm, if they continue to pursue it.
My $.02
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As it pertains to sights, I use tech sights, peep style.
Not to bump thread but have any of you been to an Appleseed shoot. If not I highly recommend it.
Best thing IMO for training my son, as I didn't have the skill set I thought I did. My son is learning to be a marksman, not just shoot.
If anyone would like more info just pm me or just google Appleseed shoot.
Intensive two day training.
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Depending on what I was doing, I still like both. Anything before about 250 yards (depending on the size of the target of course) I like to shoot open sighted. But if I'm actually doing something serious with my rifle (deer hunting, longer range shots) then I like the security of using a scope just to make sure you can see everything clearly and know where your bullet will strike.
I did start out on iron sights though, I have a little .22 semi auto with a peep sight and I used to run thousands of rounds through that thing. To be honest, I prefer peep sight over the regular iron sight.
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well im 12 and started on a scoped 980fps pellet gun, that really helped because the gun had scoped and flip up iron sights so i learned both, i like iron sights better because its like point in shoot. so a scope i think just will improve his shooting because it shows him the same stuff. now when you start getting into hunting like me and a scope is needed then so be it. i say also if its his first time start on a pellet gun or a 22 then slowly move up in the calibers, i like the 30-30's and 234. cal's
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I can see the point of gratification for the youngster but I do believe you should know the basics. The only thing I can think of that wouldn't matter what you use is practice with trigger control. Without it, it really doesn't matter. The bad thing about first using a scope is if he's shooting really well with it then goes to iron sights and struggles a little, he'll want to revert back to the scope and give up. Depends on the kid I guess.
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The way I was taught:
If I can shoot quarters at X yards with open sights, I can shoot dimes at X yards with a scope.
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i was taught with old school iron sights...didn't even look through a scope until i was 16. would not recommend them past 200 yards unless you have spent a lot of time shooting. peep sights take some getting used to, different sight picture, smaller adjustments, but they are great for non-scoped shooting. you can reach out to 500-600 yards accurately. scopes are great for precision shooting but, you don't learn marksmanship with them...at least nobody i ever met did. personally i think it has something to do with gaining a good understanding of windage and elevation.
what ever happened to the "first gun" being a bb or pellet rifle? teach the kids respect for weapons and marksmanship without breaking the bank.
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what ever happened to the "first gun" being a bb or pellet rifle? teach the kids respect for weapons and marksmanship without breaking the bank.
Yep, my kids got a Red Rider bb gun when they turned 5. (Of course I had to cock it for them at first :lol)
Nothing like the satisfying sound and action as they knock pop cans off the picnic table, it gets them excited as can be.
Now they are moving on to the .22. I have a Ruger 10/22 that they've shot a little, but I think I'm going to go and get something for them that needs manual re-loading. I'm thinking a Henry, but I found a nice Remington Fieldmaster (the gun I learned on ) at a local pawn shop for $400.
Anyway, most of the responses here seem to reaffirm my belief that starting a child on a scoped rifle is bad news.
:salute
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Start with basics and move up.
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i was taught with old school iron sights...didn't even look through a scope until i was 16. would not recommend them past 200 yards unless you have spent a lot of time shooting. peep sights take some getting used to, different sight picture, smaller adjustments, but they are great for non-scoped shooting. you can reach out to 500-600 yards accurately. scopes are great for precision shooting but, you don't learn marksmanship with them...at least nobody i ever met did. personally i think it has something to do with gaining a good understanding of windage and elevation.
what ever happened to the "first gun" being a bb or pellet rifle? teach the kids respect for weapons and marksmanship without breaking the bank.
I started with a red rider BB gun when I was maybe 6 or 7 running around shooting birds all day. Got it taken away a few times when I found out what happens when you shoot a cow in the ass. :bolt:
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When I started Jr. out with firearms, I worked with him on gun safety for over 2 years prior to taking him to the range. Even before he put his hands on a real rifle he knew right and wrong. I've only had to correct him a few times and mostly that was putting his finger on the trigger prior to being ready to fire.
When he was 7 1/2, I took him to the range with 3 firearms:a bolt action .22 w/ iron sights, a semi-auto .22 w/ 4X scope, and a .22 pistol w/ a scope. The longest we fired was 15 yards. First, he watched me work all the components of the rifle, how to load and unload, use the trigger, how to use the sights(s). He heard the noise of the each firearm and saw how they reacted to being fired. He learn to squeeze the trigger, where to exactly put the butt of the stock in the shoulder, where to put his cheek on the comb. Over 200 rounds later I had to almost drag him from the shooting bench. :D
Today, at 9 1/2 he is firing .223 rifles out to 100 yards and .38 Special/9mm handguns out to 7 yards and doing very well. I am very proud of him, he is proving to be quite adept at the use of firearms and most importantly he is developing habits of being very safe.
As a former firearms instructor for law enforcement officers, I can not stress enough patience and starting from the very beginning when teaching someone how to shoot, regardless of their age. I see too many people try to teach/learn using a 12 gauge shotgun, a Glock 22 in .40 SW, or other such firearm not really suited for novice hands. Intimidation can really slow and in many cases stop outright any further development.
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Start with the iron sites for sure. That's how I am teaching my two girls.
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My process was iron sights on a single shot 22 rimfire. Take your time and learn proper safe handling habits. Learn how the gun works and what alignment of sights means. Learn what your limitations are first with open sights then what can be learned from using a scope for longer range precision shooting. Anyone can shoot with a scope that is properly sighted in but the same can't be said for folks using iron sights who never used them .
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Whenever I shot a cow with a Red Ryder they hardly noticed .
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Open irons.
Grandfather used to make me dry-fire with a penny or a dime on the end of the barrel until I could actually squeeze the trigger (ie: not meat-hooking it) without disturbing the coin and making it fall off.
Once I could do that 15-20 times in a row, we went to the range.
Extreme? Perhaps, but there is nothing that I cannot hit with a rifle or handgun with confidence and accuracy.
I am doing the same with my children.
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I started with a shotgun one little front bead. :D
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My first experience with an actual firearm (not a bb or pellet gun) was my dads marlin bolt action .22 he made me shoot empty .22 shell casings at 20 yards until I could hit them consistently. The more I missed the more targets I had. :bhead
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When I started Jr. out with firearms, I worked with him on gun safety for over 2 years prior to taking him to the range. Even before he put his hands on a real rifle he knew right and wrong. I've only had to correct him a few times and mostly that was putting his finger on the trigger prior to being ready to fire.
When he was 7 1/2, I took him to the range with 3 firearms:a bolt action .22 w/ iron sights, a semi-auto .22 w/ 4X scope, and a .22 pistol w/ a scope. The longest we fired was 15 yards. First, he watched me work all the components of the rifle, how to load and unload, use the trigger, how to use the sights(s). He heard the noise of the each firearm and saw how they reacted to being fired. He learn to squeeze the trigger, where to exactly put the butt of the stock in the shoulder, where to put his cheek on the comb. Over 200 rounds later I had to almost drag him from the shooting bench. :D
Today, at 9 1/2 he is firing .223 rifles out to 100 yards and .38 Special/9mm handguns out to 7 yards and doing very well. I am very proud of him, he is proving to be quite adept at the use of firearms and most importantly he is developing habits of being very safe.
As a former firearms instructor for law enforcement officers, I can not stress enough patience and starting from the very beginning when teaching someone how to shoot, regardless of their age. I see too many people try to teach/learn using a 12 gauge shotgun, a Glock 22 in .40 SW, or other such firearm not really suited for novice hands. Intimidation can really slow and in many cases stop outright any further development.
some great advice there! :aok
Von,I was taught with something similar only the teacher put a empty shell casing on the barrel and we used a bench rest. I'd forgot about that till I read your post,but this will surely teach trigger control.
Back before they change the laws about guns up in the great white north I used to shoot a fair bit,was on the school gun club,I was so cool carrying a gun to school......... :rolleyes:
:salute
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Iron Sights is the way to learn to shoot and be effective, the first gun i ever shot at 10 years old was my Grampa's Winchester model 94 30-30 caliber, i have to tell you that's one of the funnest deer rifles i ever shot, great brush gun.
First Scoped Rifle i shot was my Dad's 1952 Husqvarna 30-06 Nitro 18 1/2" Barrel, Leupold Milli Dot Scope. My Father bought it brand new in Sweden when he was Stationed in Germany recovering from Wounds he received during the Korean war, He also gave me a Tokarev T33 Pistol that was only dropped once :D i now have all those guns and still use the Husky for Elk Hunting and 30-30 for Deer, i even still have my Daisy Pump action BB gun i bought in 1970 ( looks like a shotgun) thing still works great to. I'll pass them all down to my son when the time comes.
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If the shooter doesn't understand the basics of shooting, I would doubt their ability to shoot accurately with or without scopes. While scopes can allow for ease of sight picture at greater ranges it won't compensate for poor shooting techniques. Open sights are easier for me to teach the shooting basics simply because it is easier for the student to gain the knowledge through the "sight" of what is supposed to happen. Some scopes make it difficult or even impossible to teach "sight alignment" or "sight Picture" and the importance of "alignment" over "picture". Also teaching a new shooter proper hold and breathing techniques are very difficult with a scope. Breathing when done wrong, or simply the lack of breathing, is increased with magnification and can lead to frustration early on.
While it is possible to proceed to go without the proper training and plop down behind a scope and hit something, I wouldn't advise it. Once bad habits are learned, they are extremely hard to overcome later. I would much rather teach a new shooter, than a long time experienced Kentucky squirrel hunter that can hit a fly at 100 meters. Within a month I can most likely have the new shooter at a higher level than the experienced shooter who never learned the proper techniques.
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Single shot .22 with iron sights and then was allowed to handle the single shot breech load .410 before being handed my first real rifle...Model 94 Winchester .30-30 that I still have to this day. That gun is almost as old as I am and shoots great. Iron sights for what its worth are the only way to learn.