Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Krusty on October 25, 2011, 10:31:53 AM
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Origin has a really stupid (no, I mean REALLY stupid) way of launching BF3, but they have a required launch platform in an attempt to get more money from STEAM, called "Origin."
However they gather your info to sell to make even more money. The Origin program is reported (from testing) to scan all the files in your program data folder or some such, and it's not reporting yet but it's just been launched and they may be waiting to turn on the "send us the gathered data" subroutine for when they have a larger customer base.
There is no way to avoid this. The only way to avoid it is to not install the software, which means no BF3 (exclusive to Origin) and no other recent EA titles. They are moving towards this as their main money making platform and you can bet the majority of their new games will go through it.
Aside from the entire BF3 discussion (another topic unto itself!), has anybody done any testing on Origin? Does anybody have any thoughts? Actual observations/tests? It's a major breach of privacy IMO and I won't run BF3 because it requires Origin. That's just me.
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Origin has a really stupid (no, I mean REALLY stupid) way of launching BF3, but they have a required launch platform in an attempt to get more money from STEAM, called "Origin."
However they gather your info to sell to make even more money. The Origin program is reported (from testing) to scan all the files in your program data folder or some such, and it's not reporting yet but it's just been launched and they may be waiting to turn on the "send us the gathered data" subroutine for when they have a larger customer base.
There is no way to avoid this. The only way to avoid it is to not install the software, which means no BF3 (exclusive to Origin) and no other recent EA titles. They are moving towards this as their main money making platform and you can bet the majority of their new games will go through it.
Aside from the entire BF3 discussion (another topic unto itself!), has anybody done any testing on Origin? Does anybody have any thoughts? Actual observations/tests? It's a major breach of privacy IMO and I won't run BF3 because it requires Origin. That's just me.
Umm the antihack kinda has to scan your files to be able to detect them. Punkbuster scans your whole computer basically.
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It's not an anti hack... It's on startup of the Origin service itself, not running any game. They explicitly admitted they were going to take your info and sell it in the EULA, then realized folks read it and changed it to make it more obscured.
BF3 will be using Punkbuster, for example, and not some native anti-hack from EA.
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wow...that's worse than microsoft...thanks for the info krusty
i swore 7 years ago i would never buy another ea pc based game...and they just keep adding to the list of reasons not to buy.
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wow...that's worse than microsoft...thanks for the info krusty
i swore 7 years ago i would never buy another ea pc based game...and they just keep adding to the list of reasons not to buy.
Whats the alternitive?
Activision's call of duty "Elite" system? pay $49 a year to get guns/maps that should of already been in the game in the first place?
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Activision's greed is highly elevated, to be sure, and I'm of the opinion that such a business model of paying for what is already in a game is recipe for that game's failing. Want to play the game? Buy it... Oh, sorry, you can't finish the game without paying another $30... Oh, and you can't beat the final boss without a DLC item we sell for $20.... Oh, and you'll only be able to solve the puzzle to get into the boss chamber by purchasing a DLC puzzle key... just $20!
Unfortunately EA has also been going that route for a while. Valve is starting to venture into that land, which is scary.
Overall Origin is a prying piece of spyware, it looks like, intended only to make money for EA by either 1) taking sales from other well established digital distributors and 2) selling your marketing info after searching your HD for it. EA has been moving closer and closer to this step for a while, but to actually take the step is a terrible setback for all PC gamers.
The truly sad part is BF3 will keep Origin going when any other time it would crash and burn. BF3 isn't even that great! It's a console game coded to use a PC video card! They have no clue how to make a PC game anymore.
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Whats the alternitive?
Activision's call of duty "Elite" system? pay $49 a year to get guns/maps that should of already been in the game in the first place?
what's the alternative? i know it would be like telling a crack addict to put the pipe down but...stop buying the crap!!! the developers don't care what you think, after you drop $50-$60 for one of their craptastic bazooka noob games, they don't care what you do.
ea is getting away with the crap because you squeakers continue to buy their junk. they have been steadily getting worse than microsoft and until their sales suffer noticeably, it's not going to stop.
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what's the alternative? i know it would be like telling a crack addict to put the pipe down but...stop buying the crap!!! the developers don't care what you think, after you drop $50-$60 for one of their craptastic bazooka noob games, they don't care what you do.
ea is getting away with the crap because you squeakers continue to buy their junk. they have been steadily getting worse than microsoft and until their sales suffer noticeably, it's not going to stop.
There it is there.
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Well, before it gets totally blown out of proportion, I will correct myself to say "it looks like" it's a piece of spyware... I don't know for sure, hence partly why I was curious if folks knew more in here.
The alternative is to stop buying bad games and supporting BAD companies with underhanded and dirty tactics. I'm not getting BF3 because of this. It's a sloppy rushed and super-overhyped product being used to hide the fact that EA gets to own you ("But, hey, look! BF3! Don't think about that other stuff, just go play a new game!").
Even if it didn't pry for data, I would boycott the terrible user interface, the horrid BROWSER PLUGIN method as the only way to launch the game, etc. The fact they lied and said it was a PC game but it has all the characteristics and leftover problems of a console port (including crappy input support, looking for gamepads instead of joysticks, etc -- stuff found in BC2 already).
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what's the alternative? i know it would be like telling a crack addict to put the pipe down but...stop buying the crap!!! the developers don't care what you think, after you drop $50-$60 for one of their craptastic bazooka noob games, they don't care what you do.
ea is getting away with the crap because you squeakers continue to buy their junk. they have been steadily getting worse than microsoft and until their sales suffer noticeably, it's not going to stop.
Im buying BF3 for ps3 because i LIKE the battlefield franchise. just like YOU like Aceshigh. But if you wish to call BF3 junk, may i point out that AH's current subscriptions would probably not even come close to matching a third of the sales of past battlefield games, or even bf3 alone.
And you overuse the word "squeeker" gyrene. You may call me a squeeker, but its YOU that is always in topics criticizeing other's opinions. Your turning into a mini-krusty when it comes to how badly you feel your opinion needs to be stated above all others.
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Im buying BF3 for ps3 because i LIKE the battlefield franchise. just like YOU like Aceshigh. But if you wish to call BF3 junk, may i point out that AH's current subscriptions would probably not even come close to matching a third of the sales of past battlefield games, or even bf3 alone.
And you overuse the word "squeeker" gyrene. You may call me a squeeker, but its YOU that is always in topics criticizeing other's opinions. Your turning into a mini-krusty when it comes to how badly you feel your opinion needs to be stated above all others.
son, when you were still sitting around in crusty diapers i played battlefield and 4 other first person shooters, on dedicated servers that i paid to have control over...my servers ran community modifications to bring the most realistic settings possible and those modifications took months to perfect. my servers were full 24/7 365. the games were specifically programmed to work on computers. the bf3 subscriptions will fall just like the orginal battlefield fan base...it's a squeaker flash in the pan. same thing happened with modern warfare, mw2, ofp dragon rising, and every other first person shooter the developers have made specifically for consoles. you pay $60 for a $20 game, plus an online subscription fee but nobody will care if you don't like the game, you already paid for it.
aceshigh is not perfect, but you do get 2 weeks to find out whether or not you want to pay for it. i did that very thing 3 years before i actually subscribed.
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son, when you were still sitting around in crusty diapers i played battlefield and 4 other first person shooters, on dedicated servers that i paid to have control over...my servers ran community modifications to bring the most realistic settings possible and those modifications took months to perfect. my servers were full 24/7 365. the games were specifically programmed to work on computers. the bf3 subscriptions will fall just like the orginal battlefield fan base...it's a squeaker flash in the pan. same thing happened with modern warfare, mw2, ofp dragon rising, and every other first person shooter the developers have made specifically for consoles. you pay $60 for a $20 game, plus an online subscription fee but nobody will care if you don't like the game, you already paid for it.
aceshigh is not perfect, but you do get 2 weeks to find out whether or not you want to pay for it. i did that very thing 3 years before i actually subscribed.
Ive played every battlefield except Battlefield 2142. (This includes all addons, including the BC2 Vietnam Add-on, and 1943). so even if i was in "crusty diapers", ive still done everything you have.
I cant say for the PC versions, but the console battlefields, "bad company" had demo's, letting you try them out. Bc1 had 2 betas, and after it was released had a demo you could download and try whenever you liked.
BC2 had 2 betas. Both invite only, but they also released an Open Multiplayer Demo for 2 weeks before the game was released. i remember staying up till 1 a.m, parachuting into the battlefield. and knifing many, many bush wookies.
Battlefield 1943 comes with a permanent Online demo. Where you can go online and use all the classes, but you can only play on wake island.
And whats wrong with console gaming? IGN, Gamespot, Game informer have all ran articles, showing how PC gaming is on the decline. and Console gaming has risen. Console gaming is the future. whether you like it or not.
Also, i like how if anything contradicts your own opinion gyrene, its automatically labeled a "squeaker" by you. Your a squeaker because of how much you squeek that dam word.
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Comparing BF3 to AH2 is not a valid analysis... Who will be suffering EA's indignities 10 years from now, paying subscriptions month after month to continue enjoying it?
Most won't even bother with the DLC (which should have been part of the game from the start -- more bad business ploys on EA's part), even, let alone pay $30 a month for years, then $15 a month for more years.
I am also a long-time PC gamer and FPS gamer. I have played in most of the major FPS games you can list (but not all) and rather heavily at times. I can also say that BF3 is coming across (the entire system, requiring Origin just to run it, launching through web browsers, having the interface of a console game) as junk.
Fun junk, but not worth the headaches, hassles, and limitations imposed upon those that would play it.
P.S. Saying console gaming is the future is myopic at best. PC gaming keeps console games in business. PC hardware pushes limits and furthers technology and software. Consoles do not. Don't compare console gaming on BF series with PC gaming on BF series. They are night and day different, from the ground up and from the player base/community up.
P.P.S. If you're getting BF3 on a console and only play them on consoles, you don't have the PC background or PC gaming experience to notice the difference between cheap console ports and native PC games. It's not about the running and jumping and shooting. It's about the entire way the game is laid out. It's not the action it's the function. If you like it on console, fine. If you are a PC gamer you have more scope and capability and PC gaming demands that games use this scope and capability. Inputs, keymapping, level of detail setting, more options both for GPU and CPU. None of these you will be familiar with on a console, but make or break a game on a PC.
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Just going to say... I'd rather not have this turn into a console-vs-PC... A few comments sure, but let's focus on EA's Origin service and it's PC-related ramifications.
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I have AH installed on a Windows 7 install and backed up to an True Image secure zone. Its a simple matter to 'restore' the install to an unused 500GB drive and remove AH before installing BF3. Then I can play it for a few months before removing the drive. There isnt anything for EA to grab that way! :bolt:
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You guys are funny. You do not mind Microsoft gathering information from your computer, nor Google, nor Facebook, but you have a cow when EA does it. Steam is also gathering data, but only pertaining to the games you play, how long you play them and so on.
Don't get me wrong. I have no love for EA.
And now for the rationalizations......
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There have been a few forum discussions about doing similar things, or running it through a sandbox, etc... But that's kind of a long workaround for something we still should be upset about in the first place, no? Challenge, have you done any kind of testing/monitoring (I know you're a PC nerd of greater ranking than I :P ) to see what Origin actually is doing -- a kind of threat analysis?
EDIT: used wrong forum member name, sorry. Corrected.
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lol skuzzy...the microsoft scans are uncouth but considering that the operating system is part of the basic foundation and the b.s. about "customer service", it's somewhat understandable. the difference is a gaming company has no business scanning my system and gathering any information other than for hardware identification. nor does that video game have any busines installing a program that is designed scan everything on my system and returning the information to the company or any other companies.
don't take it so hard tyrannis...can't deny the simple fact that you're a rugrat. unfortunately with the introduction of the ps3 and xbox360 the college geniuses barely older than you at the game developers have decided to market their latest crap to people your age. 10+ years ago adults were the target audience because they owned the only equipment that could get online, computers. and adults were the only ones who could do things to make the games more than just out of the box couch muffin buggy crap...now it's all biggerboomtasticflashywhatcha majiggyKewlz without any real regard for anything more than a shiny cyber medal and rank.
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You guys are funny. You do not mind Microsoft gathering information from your computer, nor Google, nor Facebook, but you have a cow when EA does it. Steam is also gathering data, but only pertaining to the games you play, how long you play them and so on.
Don't get me wrong. I have no love for EA.
And now for the rationalizations......
Not a rationalization, but of the others:
STEAM: Oft villified as tracking info, it only tracks game info and only for the games you play through this game launching service. So what's the problem? When I play a game I want to track my stats, no? Be it on an external stats webpage or through STEAM. It's not searching to see what version of Adobe I have installed or what kind of Office setup I use.
Microsoft: I've read through the EULA a while back. I think that if they were in any way actively gathering info, they wouldn't be so freaking out of touch with reality with their latest releases. They're so clueless I doubt they're gathering anything. Instead I think it is more standard boilerplate to protect themselves from lawsuits regarding info transmitted via remote desktop, any of the bug/crash reporting tools, and so forth. MS is making their money elsewhere, not off your personal info.
Google: I boycott G-mail and Google Chrome because of their practices too. I don't hold them any different than EA. Equally bad.
Facebook: Never touch the stuff. Not only do I find it beneath me (not in an elitist way, just in a "why do folks use this?!" way), but I have heard a number of bad things about their privacy rights and so forth.
It's not that I'm jumping on EA while ignoring others. EA is specifically the first game launcher that's going to spam you for playing the latest greatest games that can only be accessed if you allow them access to your HD and files for scanning. Just because others are doing it doesn't negate the atrocious nature of the beast!
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Microsoft gathers a ton of data from your computer usage. They know every configuration change you make, every ICON you click, every WEB page you visit, along with a ton of other data. They play it close to the vest.
Adobe is also another data miner. Flash has been sending data home (Macromedia, then Adobe) for years and is probably the oldest, and most pervasive, data miner on the Internet.
It is difficult to find any commercial software that does not do data mining of some type. I do not know the extent of what EA is doing, and I am skeptical about what I hear, as it seems to be derived from emotional outbursts, rather then actual facts.
I do not buy any games for the PC anymore, so I have no vested interests in this.
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See Rule #4
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Flash has been sending data home (Macromedia, then Adobe) for years and is probably the oldest, and most pervasive, data miner on the Internet.
Really??? Yeesh... I know I disabled their DRM service that came with Flash MX and I don't update flash player often. I don't let it load and I don't use it for anything other than webpage plugins. But, that is surprising to learn!
I do not buy any games for the PC anymore, so I have no vested interests in this.
That's a shame, I think. Sad to see PC games get less love than other platforms these days (in general).
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Challenge, have you done any kind of testing/monitoring (I know you're a PC nerd of greater ranking than I :P ) to see what Origin actually is doing -- a kind of threat analysis?
I have never worried so much about it actually. On the Internet (or in RL) you have no individual right to privacy except those outlined by the business you are engaged with which is why people use handles and remain as anonymous as they do. I know recent headlines would have you thinking otherwise but there it is. I use every service that Skuzzy mentioned without fear.
If you really want to worry about it you should be looking at Google.
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I disagree about that... If you're on the internet doing your own business and some nefarious entity infects you with a virus, let's say... You can take steps to defend yourself, but you DO have a reasonable right to privacy. Reasonable, not absolute. You can try defending yourself just in case, but if it happens you are the victim.
Same goes for scanning your HD just to let you play "a cool new game with flashy graphics" -- if they are abusing your privacy you STILL have a reasonable right to, it's not your fault. They are the bad guys, you the victim.
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Really??? Yeesh... I know I disabled their DRM service that came with Flash MX and I don't update flash player often. I don't let it load and I don't use it for anything other than webpage plugins. But, that is surprising to learn!
That's a shame, I think. Sad to see PC games get less love than other platforms these days (in general).
Oh, I should have been clearer. I have purchased one game in the last 10 years, or so. I lost all interest in games due to all the root kits, and other intrusive garbage game companies insist on installing. It just got to the point where I lost all interest due to all the potential hassles. Games are supposed to be fun, not nightmarish.
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Origin is ok and I have found in most cases it launches faster than steam. If you do not agree with it don't get it simple as that really.
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... but you DO have a reasonable right to privacy. Reasonable, not absolute. You can try defending yourself just in case, but if it happens you are the victim.
I know its off topic but...
Please point out the law or legal document granting you a right to privacy. Read the Bill of Rights from beginning to end. Its not in there.
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See Rule #4
...Why did i and I alone get rule 4'd?
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Oh, I should have been clearer. I have purchased one game in the last 10 years, or so. I lost all interest in games due to all the root kits, and other intrusive garbage game companies insist on installing. It just got to the point where I lost all interest due to all the potential hassles. Games are supposed to be fun, not nightmarish.
Going through the animation classes now so Flash has to be working and up to date. I dont think I have ever played a flash game but I see there is a class on creating them in my future. Part of the future of computing I suppose.
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right to privacy goes out the window the moment you install their software. you accept their eu whatever and you gave it up.
semp
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See Rule #14
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right to privacy goes out the window the moment you install their software. you accept their eu whatever and you gave it up.
semp
Unfortunately I have to agree with semp...
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See Rule #14
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That's a false claim that I'm sure the software companies exploiting you would like to defend.
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right to privacy goes out the window the moment you install their software. you accept their eu whatever and you gave it up.
semp
Just because they put what they WANT to do in the EULA, doesn't mean they are ALLOWED to do it. Problem is it wouldn't hold up in any court, but nobody can afford the lawyers to take on the big company saying "We wanna do this, you have to let us, we're set!"
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Just because they put what they WANT to do in the EULA, doesn't mean they are ALLOWED to do it. Problem is it wouldn't hold up in any court, but nobody can afford the lawyers to take on the big company saying "We wanna do this, you have to let us, we're set!"
then it goes back to they can do whatever they want as long as you agree to the eu whatever crap.
semp
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So skuzzy, are you saying you never play PC games anymore? What about this one? :P
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That's a false claim that I'm sure the software companies exploiting you would like to defend.
No... thats a misconception you are making. Im not going to violate forum rules to prove the point though. It should be sufficient for you that there are tools and knowledge available to prevent a breach of your system or you can simply choose to not install the software. If you think that your data or personal information or even simple email is private and secure then you arent paying attention.
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So skuzzy, are you saying you never play PC games anymore? What about this one? :P
Did not say that. Aces High is one of the few games I know I can trust not to screw with my computer or any of the data on it. I also play a mean game of solitaire from time to time.
Folks, as much as I would like to see a discussion on what is private and what is not and so on, it cannot be done without wandering into the political realm.
...Why did i and I alone get rule 4'd?
The fact you do not know is why you will not last much longer on this board.
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I find Origin totally useless and unneeded.
It does have some pros such as everything about the game is pretty much right there. Launching the games (of course), yours stats, friends, and a forum to complain about things.
Either way, Origin should not exist. I am not a fan of Steam either. PC gaming has gotten down right ridiculous over the span of 10 years.
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Im not going to violate forum rules to prove the point
This did rather stray off topic...
Back on topic: What does it (Origin) actually do, and what will it do once they turn on the "transmit" subroutine later on?
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I've been reading through this topic with rather high interest. I'm specificaly interested in what kind of info they could gather about me that could possibly pose a "threat" to me? Or what could they use this info for? And why should I care? I mean, every single time I buy something with a credit card or a cash card, my location and buying habits are logged and compiled. Why should I be more worried about flash or EA or steam knowing what I look at on my computer? I'm not trolling, I truly want to know so I can forge an opinion on the matter.
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You guys are funny. You do not mind Microsoft gathering information from your computer, nor Google, nor Facebook<snip>
so, i should probably uninstall google chrome?
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This did rather stray off topic...
Back on topic: What does it (Origin) actually do, and what will it do once they turn on the "transmit" subroutine later on?
Origin is no more intrusive on your system than Steam is. Both mine the same data on your machine (i.e. system specs, game usage, game stats, etc.) and both share this information with their respective partners but you can opt out by either sending them a snail mail letter or actually calling them to be removed from any mailing lists.
The EULA has to conform to the consumer laws for each state, as well as their business practices. In short...agreeing to the EULA does not surrender your rights as a consumer.
I find Origin totally useless and unneeded.
It does have some pros such as everything about the game is pretty much right there. Launching the games (of course), yours stats, friends, and a forum to complain about things.
Either way, Origin should not exist. I am not a fan of Steam either. PC gaming has gotten down right ridiculous over the span of 10 years.
Frankly, as a game launchpad Origin sucks. It uses a game launcher to launch a website that then launches the game.
ack-ack
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I agree with you there!
However it's been proven that EA searches the contents or your programs data folder. Every file, icons etc. Steam does not do this. EA is looking for more than just installed games. You also cannot opt out. They say explicitly, you MUST agree to it if you install their software. The original wording even said visiting their webpage (to READ the EULA before even installing Origin) meant you agreed to it as well. They're really reaching.
But they do actually scan your HD's ProgramData directory every time they start up. That's more than Steam for sure.
Somebody's test:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/960869-battlefield-3/60145714