Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: USRanger on October 25, 2011, 09:07:27 PM

Title: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: USRanger on October 25, 2011, 09:07:27 PM
   I've always found the plane fire in AH to be a bit blah & unrealistic looking (sorry HTC), so last night I decided to make my own plane fire files as an experiment.  I only spent around 10 minutes on the entire project, so there is room for improvement when free time permits, probably this Friday.  Here are some pics comparing the default fire to the ones I made.  Opinions are welcome.  If anyone would like to check it out in-game, I'll make a quick terrain Friday & put it up for download.  Pics don't do either of the default or new fire as much justice as seeing them in motion.  Just thought I'd share.  Beats another whine thread. :D  

Comparison shots, all from in-game with no modifications, except image size:

(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7734/comp1e.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/403/comp1e.jpg/)


(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7366/comp2r.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/comp2r.jpg/)


(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/294/comp3d.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/comp3d.jpg/)


One last leftover shot
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2874/new4w.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/new4w.jpg/)

I'll post some more pics this weekend after I've had time to improve/add more variation to the files.
 :salute

Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Raphael on October 25, 2011, 09:10:43 PM
looking great so far! could be more light at the beginning of the fire I think but anyway it is looking awesome! Can't wait to see how it turns out, will we be able to use it client side? like a skin?
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: USRanger on October 25, 2011, 09:13:17 PM
When we are able to upload custom terrains for custom arena use, it'll get used in at least one of my terrains, just for variety sake. :salute
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: CAP1 on October 25, 2011, 09:17:12 PM
you figured out how to make a b24 fly on 1 wing?? :x
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: JUGgler on October 25, 2011, 09:21:02 PM
too much orange  man, it looks like I ate too many halloween candy corns and exolded them from my anus  :huh

I like the effort though,  keep it up  :salute




JUGgler
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Raphael on October 25, 2011, 09:25:20 PM
you figured out how to make a b24 fly on 1 wing?? :x
offline drones. they fly with no wings at all
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: CAP1 on October 25, 2011, 09:50:23 PM
offline drones. they fly with no wings at all
i knw......was joking.  :devil
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Mister Fork on October 25, 2011, 10:29:29 PM
Most WWII jet fuel fires are orange - are they not?
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: USRanger on October 25, 2011, 10:31:22 PM
That's what I thought.  Could be wrong.  I agree though that the finished product needs more color variation.
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: JUGgler on October 25, 2011, 10:34:14 PM
Most WWII jet fuel fires are orange - are they not?


The picture shows a B24, that would be AVgas  :aok



JUGgler
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Raptor05121 on October 25, 2011, 11:02:55 PM
a little bit of yellow up front and its perfect
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: 715 on October 25, 2011, 11:14:46 PM
I think yours is too much towards orange.  The color of flames, at least the yellow/orange/red color, is due to blackbody radiation from soot particles.  The hotter the soot the more towards bright yellow the emission, the cooler the more towards dark orange or even dark red.  Your dark orange looks like too cool a flame.  You can compare your images with the 1984 NASA test crash.  Search YouTube for "Controlled Impact Demonstration 1984 Aircraft Crash Test using AMK Fuel".  In that video the color of the flames match HTCs more than they match yours.  As the video shows the flame is pretty hot because the convective environment mixes in a lot of air with the fuel giving a hot flame.  It would look better if it is more bright yellow towards the lead end.  (It can get more towards orange towards the tail as more air entrains and cools the flow.)

Also, the spheres are simulating vortices; you can see them rotating in the YouTube video.  Despite complex turbulence the vortices are not usually as complexly overlapping as your version.  HTCs less overlap looks more realistic to me.  Yours would look better more spaced out.

Kudos for trying to improve effect eye candy though!!!   :salute
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: guncrasher on October 26, 2011, 12:44:26 AM
I would love to see a rl picture of a b24 flying in flames, I dont think the flames would be that big, if you want to be realistic.

semp
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Molsman on October 26, 2011, 01:19:42 AM
from a firefighters point of View which could also be different but if your ever look at a True Flame while burning with oxygen around it, The Flame is Orange,Blue,Yellow and Red, and that goes back to the oxygen content around the flame so each flame will be different in appearance.


Crazy8s

PS good Work Ranger
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: morfiend on October 26, 2011, 01:52:11 AM
 Nice Ranger but  something doesnt look quite right.  Maybe combine yours with some of the original,yours close to engine,then fade to the yellowish part of the original then finish with the smoke.

 if you look the original has close to your colors near the smoke,so like I said maybe some blending of the 2 will give it what I think is missing.

     What exactly that is I'm not sure.... :o   I really like the vibrance of your fire effect just seems too much  maybe.



   :salute
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: ink on October 26, 2011, 01:55:41 AM
flames need to be bigger and less uniform

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/planes-fighters-bombers-second-world-war-ww2-incredible-amazing-rare-pictures-images-photos-002.jpg)
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: LCADolby on October 26, 2011, 02:16:21 AM
flames need to be bigger and less uniform

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/planes-fighters-bombers-second-world-war-ww2-incredible-amazing-rare-pictures-images-photos-002.jpg)
yep
(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577805776737067444/7B0D18C93E5BDA51B5AEEF792EF0122D1976CAA3/)
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Ruah on October 26, 2011, 02:37:41 AM
the original color is a little better, and yah, I agree that it needs more random shapes - the new option looks very segmented to me while the original looks more uniform.  But its a great start!!
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Chilli on October 26, 2011, 03:51:13 AM
How YOU feelin..... HOW YOU FEELIN......  HOT HOT HOT!!!!!!    :devil needs more chili sauce  :devil

I thought the over the shoulder view looked right on.  But here is an idea to experiment with.  Split the flame with half original (top or bottom) and other half your hotsauce version.  Will be a great way to not only compare the two, but also may lead to some hybrid blends.  Even wondering if an electric blue halo at the very leading edge of the flame may bring up the heat some more?

 :aok  Awesome looking, as long as it is somebody else's plane providing the barbeque  :uhoh

I see that morfiend kind of had a similar thought.  But I am just suggesting it as a close up comparison, rather than a finished product.  A sort of measuring stick to see where the two blend to the optimal illusion of a random shape.  Very difficult to do considering the graphic is probably rendering duplicates of a smaller graphic file to give it the fluid motion.
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Ardy123 on October 26, 2011, 03:56:53 AM
WE all love more explosions and flames but other than zeros, did planes light up that often? I saw the Reno air races crash, and the plane didn't even 'explode' it just broke up into pieces, much like a child throwing a Lego thing against the wall and having it break into pieces.
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: WYOKIDIII on October 26, 2011, 07:32:58 AM
no date but for me the incidence of fires has always "felt" right to me .
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on October 26, 2011, 08:30:50 AM
Nice work Ranger your on to something bro.. :aok
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: colmbo on October 26, 2011, 09:58:05 AM
I would love to see a rl picture of a b24 flying in flames, I dont think the flames would be that big, if you want to be realistic.

semp

I watched a Connie blow a cylinder on #3 on takeoff, the engine caught fire.  As the Connie made the turn back to the field the fire was trailing past the tail.   Was pretty impressive sight.  He landed okay, we put the fire out.
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: colmbo on October 26, 2011, 10:01:22 AM
A couple of burning B-24s.  Notice size of flames and intensity/brightness.

(http://www.appellpublishing.com/B-24%20in%20flames.jpg?72,58)

(http://www.appellpublishing.com/B-24%20on%20fire.jpg?67,60)
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Raphael on October 26, 2011, 11:05:12 AM
would be nice if it was possible to mess with the model of the flames and not just the texture
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: 4deck on October 26, 2011, 02:17:11 PM
Really superb job on that. You should should up load it in the skin area.
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: USRanger on October 26, 2011, 05:32:56 PM
   Thanks for the opinions all.  I agree that it is too orange.  As for the uniformity & lack of variety, I'll explain.  Remember that this was just a 10 minute experiment to see if it would work.  The plane fire effect consists of 15 .bmps & 15 alpha .bmps, half of which are the smoke that follows the fire.  What I did for simplicity's sake was to create the first .bmp & then just darken each succeeding .bmp a little to make it fade into the smoke.  I kept the default alphas (gives the effect its shape) and smoke.  When I get time this weekend I will go back and give each .bmp a separate look to give it variety.  I will also add more yellow to it, as it seems the consensus that it needs it.  One thing to remember though, is that the AH fire effect is basically a bunch of circles that slightly overlap each other.  Nothing I can do about that, so giving it real variety with flames shooting out here & there is almost impossible. 

   Thanks again for the posts.  It was a fun lil' experiment.  I plan on messing with the other effects also (muzzle flash, hit sprites, explosions, etc.) and will post screenies whenever that happens.  If something works out looking cool, I'll throw it in a terrain in the custom arenas whenever we can (finally!!) upload our own terrains.  I can't help it, I'm a customization junky. :)

 :salute
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: ink on October 26, 2011, 05:35:19 PM
   Thanks for the opinions all.  I agree that it is too orange.  As for the uniformity & lack of variety, I'll explain.  Remember that this was just a 10 minute experiment to see if it would work.  The plane fire effect consists of 15 .bmps & 15 alpha .bmps, half of which are the smoke that follows the fire.  What I did for simplicity's sake was to create the first .bmp & then just darken each succeeding .bmp a little to make it fade into the smoke.  I kept the default alphas (gives the effect its shape) and smoke.  When I get time this weekend I will go back and give each .bmp a separate look to give it variety.  I will also add more yellow to it, as it seems the consensus that it needs it.  One thing to remember though, is that the AH fire effect is basically a bunch of circles that slightly overlap each other.  Nothing I can do about that, so giving it real variety with flames shooting out here & there is almost impossible. 

   Thanks again for the posts.  It was a fun lil' experiment.  I plan on messing with the other effects also (muzzle flash, hit sprites, explosions, etc.) and will post screenies whenever that happens.  If something works out looking cool, I'll throw it in a terrain in the custom arenas whenever we can (finally!!) upload our own terrains.  I can't help it, I'm a customization junky. :)

 :salute

and very good at it :salute
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: morfiend on October 26, 2011, 08:22:10 PM
^^^

  agreed,I have no artistic talent,have a hard time drawing a straight line with a ruler,so I am envious of the stuff you guys do!



    I cant wait to see what you come up with after you tweak it some!



   :salute
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: USRanger on October 26, 2011, 09:08:07 PM
I'd love to do something like in the picture Dolby posted, but the game coding isn't going to allow it with the way it uses repeating .bmps for drawing it in-game.  I'll push it to the envelope though & see what happens. :salute

One more thing, no more real life burning plane pictures please.  Makes me uneasy to see em.  Gives me a guilt feeling.
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Karnak on October 26, 2011, 10:42:35 PM
One more thing, no more real life burning plane pictures please.  Makes me uneasy to see em.  Gives me a guilt feeling.
I was looking at the photo of the B-24 that is breaking up and thinking of the last moments of life those guys had.  Of being a waist gunner or ball turret gunner on that ship. Reality is not a game at all.
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: colmbo on October 27, 2011, 07:37:49 AM
I was looking at the photo of the B-24 that is breaking up and thinking of the last moments of life those guys had.  Of being a waist gunner or ball turret gunner on that ship. Reality is not a game at all.

There was at least one survivor out of that B-24, Nav or Bombadier IIRC.
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Chilli on October 27, 2011, 05:06:44 PM
Without looking at the image again.... my mind told me that the dark figures slightly below and off to the side were crewmembers that had ejected.  You are so right though, in real life these guys had to unstrap, sometimes crawl to the bomb bay and jump.  That is nothing at all like hitting enter 3 times in a row.

USRanger,

Good information about how the graphic is made.  I would love to be able to do what you do.  What amazes me is that it took 10 minutes for you to change 15 bmp files and save them..... it takes me twice that long to drool and look at the first image I attempted to change  :huh

 :rock
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Mitsu. on October 27, 2011, 10:02:48 PM
Agreed, more realistic effects are needed in the Aces High.

Realistic flames, deep grass, vapor trails, contrails... ;)
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: WYOKIDIII on October 27, 2011, 10:08:28 PM
yeah...more stuff to kill my already crippled framerates..... :cry
Title: Re: Playing with fire (literally). Opinions wanted.
Post by: Raphael on October 27, 2011, 11:30:49 PM
yeah...more stuff to kill my already crippled framerates..... :cry
make it all optional  :cool: