Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: moot on October 31, 2011, 04:38:55 PM

Title: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: moot on October 31, 2011, 04:38:55 PM
Is here!  Will be.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: FTJR on October 31, 2011, 08:38:54 PM
Drum roll (waiting for Lyric)
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: lyric1 on October 31, 2011, 09:04:51 PM
Drum roll (waiting for Lyric)
Book is in the mail. Should have got here yesterday.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: lyric1 on October 31, 2011, 09:08:11 PM
Book is in the mail. Should have got here yesterday.
Meteor book arrived 3 days ago already had the Yak 3 stuff.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Krusty on October 31, 2011, 09:37:17 PM
I would like to do Yellow 7... but I will wait for HTC to announce the loadouts. Yellow 7 was a single seater with no rear guns or rear gunner. Wouldn't quite fit IMO if that's not an option.

Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: moot on November 01, 2011, 02:46:59 PM
This first batch is from the "wings palette" Russian website.  Maybe half of what that website puts up is not up to HTC reference standards.  So anything you see in this batch of paint schemes, you would have to do the research yourself to make sure it's a legit paint scheme. 

Next, some of these are recon birds.  I don't know the rules for that.  At least one some of these had guns (I got a pic of one with MK103s clearly visible).  So again research required for these.

Next, there's some "unknown" paint schemes.  They could be 210s or 410s, could be bogus fantasy or just be missing the historical info.  I don't know enough and don't have enough time/motivation to sort them out, so here they are in case any of em spark someone's curiosity.  The 210s should be easy enough to ID (longer tail for one thing, or the serial (410xxx means it's a 410), or the unit markings).  IDing 'em is your responsibility :)

I don't know what Seenotgruppe were exactly - if they did recon or if they actually shot at things.  I'm guessing the latter if they're a maritime group, so I'm including those schemes.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: moot on November 01, 2011, 02:49:58 PM
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8461/kg214.jpg)
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/219/kg214410b1.jpg)
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/9753/kg214410b1early44.jpg)
(http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7180/kg214u5je.jpg)
(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6744/kg215u5kg.jpg)
(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3368/kg216u5kg.jpg)
(http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/1474/kg511.jpg)
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6871/kg511spring44.jpg)
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1061/kg51eg.jpg)
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3179/kg5159kmn.jpg)
(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5648/kg5169kep.jpg)
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6302/kg5169kgp.jpg)
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5564/kg51i9khf.jpg)
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5104/messerschmitme210410111.jpg)
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/5513/seenot8045.jpg)
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/838/unknown074nta.jpg)
(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/1511/zg1iii2nlf.jpg)
(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6797/zg261.jpg)
(http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8777/zg261b.jpg)
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8999/zg262.jpg)
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4002/zg264.jpg)
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/716/zg2663uep.jpg)
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3460/zg266oct43.jpg)
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/8094/zg26iitratt.jpg)
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3323/zg26iiy7.jpg)
(http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/1080/zg26iiy7b.jpg)
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/4128/zg26iiy7bcc.jpg)
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2622/zg26staba.jpg)
below is above's top-down view:
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9527/zg26stabb.jpg)
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7969/zg26stabii.jpg)
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7118/zg26ii3ucl.jpg)
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1591/zg26iii3ucp.jpg)
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9266/zg761.jpg)
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6020/zg761b.jpg)
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: moot on November 01, 2011, 02:53:04 PM
RECON

(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9388/1211fb.jpg)
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6518/1222fj.jpg)
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4466/1223fv.jpg)
(http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/8621/f22a3recon.jpg)
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5933/f22a3reconb.jpg)
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7026/fa1222.jpg)
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8167/fa1222b.jpg)
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2089/fa1225.jpg)
Caption for this one: 
Quote
Me.410A-3 (or B-3 ?)
Unit: 5./F/Auff.Gr.122
Serial: F6+AN
Beldringe, Denmark, May 1945. Finish is the usual dull RLM74/75/76 with evidence of overpainiting in RLM74 over previous code letters. Letter 'A' is red with a white outline. Note the outline crosses on the fuselage which have been roughly infilled with grey or green. Upperwing crosses were probably simple white outlines, while those underwing were black with a white outline.

Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: moot on November 01, 2011, 03:05:47 PM
Unknowns


(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/2761/ag22stab4ntab.jpg)
(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/9118/kg51ve9kvv.jpg)
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8489/me410detail02.jpg)
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8008/unknown01e.jpg)
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5383/unknown02n.jpg)
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/6995/unknown08.jpg)
(http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/107/unknown094.jpg)
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8638/unknown122nfr.jpg)
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8028/unknown132nlt.jpg)
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9619/unknown149khh.jpg)
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/8502/zg192nnt.jpg)
(http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5048/zg196unt.jpg)
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1363/zg120.jpg)
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6526/zg266.jpg)
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/97/zg26ii3ucc.jpg)
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9321/zg76im82.jpg)


That's probably it for Wings Palette. 
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Krusty on November 01, 2011, 03:25:29 PM
Definitely some good starting points there.

I'm not calling dibs, but I will say I'd like to see a number: a green uppers, a black underside, a heavily mottled sides, a squiggle pattern or night camo, a grey overall.

I will call dibs on a KG51 with the leftover red/yellow tailbands, but there are a number of different codes to choose from.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: lyric1 on November 01, 2011, 04:06:34 PM
Guessing they will let skins in on the 210.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/russiangoons-1.jpg)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/410.jpg)
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: moot on November 01, 2011, 04:20:30 PM
If they allowed 210 skins it'd mean lots of nice Hungarian tricolor schemes.  Question is - do they?

Note to self - post pics of some 410s with big letter on nose
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Krusty on November 01, 2011, 04:47:34 PM
I will definitely be asking them that very question. I'd like to personally do a certain Hungarian 210C skin.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: oakranger on November 02, 2011, 09:57:21 AM
If they allowed 210 skins it'd mean lots of nice Hungarian tricolor schemes.  Question is - do they?

Note to self - post pics of some 410s with big letter on nose

Kristy and i just has a disucsion about that.  I agree with him that we should include the 210 skin onto the 410. 
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Krusty on November 02, 2011, 10:12:29 AM
.... unless they might add the 210 as well?...  :noid
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: oakranger on November 02, 2011, 10:53:01 AM
.... unless they might add the 210 as well?...  :noid

....but wouldn't that be redundant?
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Krusty on November 02, 2011, 11:15:36 AM
Not in regards to performance... and timelines, and scenarios, etc.

It would be about as redundant as having a Bf110C-4 and a Bf110E. Kinda close, look the same, but don't quite fly the same.

EDIT: Also, lesser loadouts on the earlier model

EDIT: See my Me210 wishlist post from the other day here:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,322946.0.html
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Krusty on November 02, 2011, 11:21:12 AM
Just to clarify, the 210 has a HECKuva lot less horsepower. Like what our 110C has (in that range). The 410's DB603As probably made 500-600hp (each!) more than the engines on the 210.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Debrody on November 02, 2011, 12:45:31 PM
(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m601/Debrody/me_210_ca1.jpg)

(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m601/Debrody/9Me210Ca-1bomber.jpg)

(http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m601/Debrody/hu-me210.jpg)

Just for you Krusty...

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/232/pics/13_1.jpg)

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Me-410/Me-210-RHAF-RKI-(Z0+54)/images/1-Me-210C-RHAF-NKI-(Z0+54)-Hungary-1944-0A.jpg)

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Me-410/Me-210-RHAF-102.2-(Z1+12)/images/1-Me-210C-RHAF-102.1-(Z0+65)-Hungary-1944-0B.JPG)

and a couple more, the il-2 versions of the skins listed above, Not quite accurate, but gives you an "something like this" immersion.

(http://pumaszallas.hu/letoltesek-skinek/me210/Me210Ca1_HUN_Z0+66_by-Imme2.jpg)

(http://pumaszallas.hu/letoltesek-skinek/me210/Me210Ca1_HUN_Z0+99_by-vpmedia2.jpg)

(http://pumaszallas.hu/letoltesek-skinek/me210/Me210Ca1_HUN_Z0+65_by-Imme2.jpg)


Quote
Just to clarify, the 210 has a HECKuva lot less horsepower. Like what our 110C has (in that range). The 410's DB603As probably made 500-600hp (each!) more than the engines on the 210.
The hungarian built DB605As were rated to 1450-1500hp. They were built into the Me-210 Ca1-s. Never heard about DB-603s producing 2000-2100hp, in my book they could do 1850-ish.
cheers  <S>
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Krusty on November 02, 2011, 01:06:33 PM
1750 hp on the DB603A.

I was comparing more to the DB601s on the Me210 which gave around 1100-1200 hp. I also read a comment that the DB605 on the 210Ca was de-rated as many foriegn license-built models were. It wasn't quite comparable to the 1.42 ata boosts on later Bf109 models and such. Off the top of my head (I could be getting this wrong) they may have been limited to 1.32 ata. One source I was reading said the end result was it wasn't too much more powerful than the 210. I had initially thought it was closer to the 410 than the 210, but after recent reading it may be the opposite side of the spectrum.

Re: pictures: Yep! I like the tri-flash on the tail, and also I like that experimental summer camo (green oversprayed). The RHAF had a bit of style!  ::aok
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Debrody on November 02, 2011, 01:14:08 PM
1750 hp on the DB603A.

Re: pictures: Yep! I like the tri-flash on the tail, and also I like that experimental summer camo (green oversprayed). The RHAF had a bit of style!  ::aok
Then be realistic and dont try to be smarter than everyone else.
There was ONE engine factory in hungary and it produced ONE kind of aircraft engine. That was the DB-605A. The same one what got into the 109 G series, with the same 1.42 ata. Its just nonsense we were setting up an other engine production line and made worse engines only for the 210 ca...  think about it.
Note that there was a corruption on the boarder: german officers were paying boxes of french champaigne for a hungarian-built plane: they were built by experienced workers and not by slaves as their german brothers. That meant about 50-60 more horses under the hood.
I can link you the page what clearly says this, if you want. Its in hungarian, but i can try to translate it (as i can). Here it is: http://militia.hu/node/274
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Krusty on November 02, 2011, 01:35:13 PM
I'm not, as you say, "trying to be smarter than everybody else"...

You have an interesting comment (and a good one!) on the DB605 also being used in Hungarian Bf109 production. I had forgotten about that, momentarily. I think you're right: it would be the same engines with the same boost.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Debrody on November 02, 2011, 01:58:59 PM
Right.
I think we can agree that the 210s with the DB-601 cant even get near the 410, with their 1250-1350ish horsepower, as standardand 601s depending on the ata they were using.
My DB-605A is about half-way, possibly it was a bit lighter than the 603A tho. If AH has g10 skins on the k4, or f6f3 skins on f6f5s, or f4fr3 skins on f4f4s etc then i think theese skins meet the criteria.
 ;)
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Greebo on November 02, 2011, 03:07:48 PM
I think you are pretty safe planning for 210 skins. Either HTC produce a 210 to go with the 410 (not likely imo) and you can do the skins for that, or they don't in which case there's no reason not to allow them on the 410.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Tec on November 02, 2011, 05:26:57 PM
Z1+10 for president!
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: lyric1 on November 02, 2011, 09:41:24 PM
 :D



(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/me410-b2-u4-sov.jpg)
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Volron on November 03, 2011, 12:25:50 AM
Are you going to be doing the Default on this plane Greebo?  Or has that been given to Cactus?  Either way, I'm seeing some really nice skins. :x
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Krusty on November 03, 2011, 01:19:14 AM
I don't mean to nitpick, but those aren't skins. They are references. Artwork and photos. The skin would be the final product you use in-game.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Greebo on November 03, 2011, 03:12:07 AM
The skinner team aren't allocated skins by HTC. What happens is Superfly or Waffle will start a thread for the new ride in a private skinner team forum with a link to the 3D shape. If none of us want to do it, then they skin it themselves. The initial 3D shape they post is the minimum needed for us to start skinning, it gets reposted from time to time with additions like the cockpit interior, as well as bug fixes and shape corrections.

I don't know whether I'll be doing the default Me 410. It's not an aircraft I'm particularly desperate to do, but I will if neither Fester or Cactus want to do it. It will also depend on if any of us are already busy on another default skin at the time when the Me 410 3D shape is ready to be skinned.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Volron on November 03, 2011, 04:37:00 AM
Ah.  I was curious to what happens when it came to skinning the defaults.  Thank you. :salute
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: B4Buster on November 03, 2011, 07:16:19 AM
Interesting Greebo, thanks!
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Wmaker on November 03, 2011, 07:38:35 AM
I don't know whether I'll be doing the default Me 410. It's not an aircraft I'm particularly desperate to do, but I will if neither Fester or Cactus want to do it.

I really really hope that you'll do it though because that usually means more skin from you than just the default one. ;)
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: beau32 on November 03, 2011, 05:08:51 PM
9K-Vv is in 5./KG51 as 9K-Ww is in 10./KG51. Below is a photo of the two flying together.
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Me-410/Me-410-KG51.5-(9K+VV)/images/1-Me-410B-5.KG51-(9K+VV)-Germany-1944-01.jpg)

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Me-410/Me-410-KG51.5-(9K+VV)/images/1-Me-410B-5.KG51-(9K+VV)-Germany-1944-0B.jpg)
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: oakranger on November 04, 2011, 12:14:17 AM
9K-Vv is in 5./KG51 as 9K-Ww is in 10./KG51. Below is a photo of the two flying together.
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Me-410/Me-410-KG51.5-(9K+VV)/images/1-Me-410B-5.KG51-(9K+VV)-Germany-1944-01.jpg)

(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Me-410/Me-410-KG51.5-(9K+VV)/images/1-Me-410B-5.KG51-(9K+VV)-Germany-1944-0B.jpg)

Are you sure the photo and the color pic are the same? Look at the placement of the 'V".
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: moot on November 04, 2011, 05:07:14 AM
The artist probably got it wrong.  It's such a common kind of mistake that you almost stop noticing it after a while.   In one of the 410 books you have a drawn profile - with the canopy swung open to the wrong side.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: oakranger on November 04, 2011, 06:32:36 PM
The artist probably got it wrong.  It's such a common kind of mistake that you almost stop noticing it after a while.   In one of the 410 books you have a drawn profile - with the canopy swung open to the wrong side.

You would think that these people will do it right.  After all, being arties, they go into great detials on their work and you would think they would catch their error. 
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Butcher on November 09, 2011, 07:53:18 PM
I will definitely be asking them that very question. I'd like to personally do a certain Hungarian 210C skin.

I would so much appreciate this Krusty.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Butcher on November 09, 2011, 07:57:43 PM
The skinner team aren't allocated skins by HTC. What happens is Superfly or Waffle will start a thread for the new ride in a private skinner team forum with a link to the 3D shape. If none of us want to do it, then they skin it themselves. The initial 3D shape they post is the minimum needed for us to start skinning, it gets reposted from time to time with additions like the cockpit interior, as well as bug fixes and shape corrections.

I don't know whether I'll be doing the default Me 410. It's not an aircraft I'm particularly desperate to do, but I will if neither Fester or Cactus want to do it. It will also depend on if any of us are already busy on another default skin at the time when the Me 410 3D shape is ready to be skinned.


what can I pay to have the Hungarian skin as default? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: lyric1 on November 09, 2011, 09:19:56 PM
what can I pay to have the Hungarian skin as default? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
You would not have that much cash.  :devil
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Butcher on November 10, 2011, 09:08:04 AM
You would not have that much cash.  :devil

But I can afford a box of chocolates =(
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Krusty on November 10, 2011, 09:17:45 AM
You would think that these people will do it right.  After all, being arties, they go into great detials on their work and you would think they would catch their error. 

There's nothing about being an "artie" that means you're held at a higher standard. It just means you know how to make lines and curves look like something. For example, all those color profiles you see online and in books? You have to take those also with a grain of salt. That's just somebody, somewhere, putting together what they think something looked like. Depending on their references they may be miles off. In fact there are a number of published books with demonstrably wrong profiles for all kinds of planes.

I even did some for Battle over Germany (a scenario) for myself and some other pilots:

(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz63/krustacious/BoG%20profiles/profile_white13_Krusty1.jpg)

(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz63/krustacious/BoG%20profiles/profile_white11_Vandals1.jpg)

Note I explicitly type out what it was for so that years down the line they didn't turn up on some other website being passed off as a historic profile (it happens!)

So, as you can see, if I can do it, anybody can. They don't all put thought into the details or the accuracy of the way canopies open, etc.

Sorry for the tangent, back to the thread!
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: whiteman on November 10, 2011, 02:31:05 PM
There's nothing about being an "artie" that means you're held at a higher standard. It just means you know how to make lines and curves look like something. For example, all those color profiles you see online and in books? You have to take those also with a grain of salt. That's just somebody, somewhere, putting together what they think something looked like. Depending on their references they may be miles off. In fact there are a number of published books with demonstrably wrong profiles for all kinds of planes.

I even did some for Battle over Germany (a scenario) for myself and some other pilots:

(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz63/krustacious/BoG%20profiles/profile_white13_Krusty1.jpg)

(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz63/krustacious/BoG%20profiles/profile_white11_Vandals1.jpg)

Note I explicitly type out what it was for so that years down the line they didn't turn up on some other website being passed off as a historic profile (it happens!)

So, as you can see, if I can do it, anybody can. They don't all put thought into the details or the accuracy of the way canopies open, etc.

Sorry for the tangent, back to the thread!

another thing with "arties" is they some times like to take something and make it theirs. When people give me work that needs to be recreate I always change some things to what i like.
Title: Re: Me 410 skins compendium
Post by: Krusty on November 17, 2011, 03:20:12 PM
It's possible he took a picture or line art and based on the layout and editor's feedback had to flip it to use as his basis for the artwork, hence the hinge on the wrong side.

There's plenty of other factors that get in the way. Like for a while I always thought a Fw190F8 was longer than an A8 (back when I was younger) because in a book they were placed side by side but one was scaled 10% larger than the next -- for no reason other than editing layout.

Sometimes the artist bends the art to what the job dictates, rather than the job dictating accuracy it just dictates "fill this spot"...