Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: curry1 on November 02, 2011, 08:29:22 PM

Title: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: curry1 on November 02, 2011, 08:29:22 PM
This is how cars are meant to be driven.

http://jalopnik.com/5855780/watch-a-police-officer-stop-this-plane-with-his-car (http://jalopnik.com/5855780/watch-a-police-officer-stop-this-plane-with-his-car)
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: MachFly on November 03, 2011, 12:30:55 AM
Destroyed a perfectly good plane, I hope it was worth it.

I think it would have been a lot better to ram the tail with his hood, the effect would have been the same but it would have been much safer for the occupants of the car. I was afraid that wing was going to cut his head off along with the roof.

I don't know how close he was to taking off but if there was still time that M4 could have done the trick with far less damage.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: EskimoJoe on November 03, 2011, 12:34:16 AM
Destroyed a perfectly good plane, I hope it was worth it.


I'd say 150k of stolen goods was worth it.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: MachFly on November 03, 2011, 12:38:24 AM
I'd say 150k of stolen goods was worth it.

Looking at what happened to the Cherokee after the cop hit him I think there is a high possibility that a large number of those goods were damaged. It's basically the same effect as blowing your tire on the highway.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: zack1234 on November 03, 2011, 03:30:29 AM
 :rofl

Brilliant

In UK they have just passed a law whereby you can use maximum force to defend your home. :old:

Before if you used excessive force on a criminal in your home you were arrested and locked  up :old:
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: MrMeanie on November 03, 2011, 03:51:13 AM
Freaking ram tard  :rofl
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: MachFly on November 03, 2011, 04:05:55 AM
Freaking ram tard  :rofl

 :lol
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Krupinski on November 03, 2011, 08:22:05 PM
This video is blowing up, jumped 100K views in 5hrs.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Tyrannis on November 03, 2011, 10:00:36 PM
Destroyed a perfectly good plane, I hope it was worth it.

I think it would have been a lot better to ram the tail with his hood, the effect would have been the same but it would have been much safer for the occupants of the car. I was afraid that wing was going to cut his head off along with the roof.

I don't know how close he was to taking off but if there was still time that M4 could have done the trick with far less damage.
the police had 2 options.

1.
-Ram the wing,
-total the plane.
-stop the crooks.
-arrest them.


or 2.

-NOT ram plane.
-Crooks get away.
-They continue to use the plane to steal thousands of dollars of merchandise.


Sure, they may have totaled the plane and damaged the stolen property inside, But im sure the $$ they saved by totaling the plane and catching the crooks is ALOT higher than what was lost in that plane.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: MachFly on November 03, 2011, 10:34:09 PM
the police had 2 options.

1.
-Ram the wing,
-total the plane.
-stop the crooks.
-arrest them.


or 2.

-NOT ram plane.
-Crooks get away.
-They continue to use the plane to steal thousands of dollars of merchandise.


Sure, they may have totaled the plane and damaged the stolen property inside, But im sure the $$ they saved by totaling the plane and catching the crooks is ALOT higher than what was lost in that plane.

The Cherokee that they destroyed cost 80-100K, plus all the 150K of stolen electronics inside. It was a suicidal maneuver that was absolutely not worth it the risk, I am surprised those cops were not decapitated.
He had a lot more than two options, and other options are a lot safer. He could have used the pit maneuver on the tail, would have worked just like with a car, could have used that M4 to take out the tires, and could have passed him and shot the pilot. 
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Tyrannis on November 03, 2011, 10:40:01 PM
The Cherokee that they destroyed cost 80-100K, plus all the 150K of stolen electronics inside inside. It was a suicidal maneuver that was not absolutely not worth it. There were saver ways of stopping that plane without doing significant damage.

He had a lot more than two options. He could have used the pit maneuver on the tail, would have worked just like with a car, could have used that M4 to take out the tired, and could have passed him and shot the pilot. I am surprised those cops were not decapitated by that maneuver.

Chances are the Plane was purchased Using the money made from stolen merchandise. So its not big loss.
Didnt see anyone saying the plane was stolen aswell.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: MachFly on November 03, 2011, 10:41:31 PM
Chances are the Plane was purchased Using the money made from stolen merchandise. So its not big loss.
Didnt see anyone saying the plane was stolen aswell.

So if someone buys something using stolen money that something can be destroyed? If a 100K plane is no big loss for you, great, I don't have such money to just throw out.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: 1701E on November 03, 2011, 10:47:29 PM
"He could have used the pit maneuver on the tail, would have worked just like with a car"

Having never done it to a plane (or car for that matter), would the wing still hit the car? Pitting the back would cause it to spin and the wing would swing around and whack the car potentially from the side?


Thinking quickly in that kind of situation is hard even when trained, I'd imagine it was just their first thought that would stop the thing. :)
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: MachFly on November 03, 2011, 10:51:50 PM
"He could have used the pit maneuver on the tail, would have worked just like with a car"

Having never done it to a plane (or car for that matter), would the wing still hit the car? Pitting the back would cause it to spin and the wing would swing around and whack the car potentially from the side?


Thinking quickly in that kind of situation is hard even when trained, I'd imagine it was just their first thought that would stop the thing. :)

Say you hit the plane from the right, the plane goes left. At that point you start slowing down and keeping your distance, you'd still have directional control, the plane wont.

I guess it is possible but given that he would have done it right I don't think it would happen. Also the odds of him (cop) surviving the pit maneuver are significantly higher than ramming the wing. I mean the guys head was above the wing and the body was bellow, the only thing to stop that wing from slicing though them was the windshield and the 2 structural bars on either side.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Angus on November 04, 2011, 05:18:18 AM
This one was one fast thinking guy.
Hit the tailplane? They might have got into the air and smashed down again.
Jump out and start shooting? Well, what comes out of that?
So, he smacked the left wing. Aircraft damaged, but absolutely not destroyed, and criminals apprehended.
Brave and smart. Hats off for this guy!
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: MachFly on November 04, 2011, 05:26:04 AM
Aircraft damaged, but absolutely not destroyed, and criminals apprehended.

No, the airplane was completely destroyed, it's not flying after that. I guess if you really want to restore it you could but it would be a lot cheaper to buy a new one. To restore it you'd need to replace the wing, replace the whole wing spar, replace the gear, replace the prop, do an engine overhaul, and that's if you get lucky.

Sure the guy was fast thinking, but certainly not smart thinking.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: MachFly on November 04, 2011, 05:32:20 AM
Also I'd like to remind you guys that that wing is full of fuel, and I'm pretty sure it's not self sealing.

Putting all the risks together, that cop was lucky.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: SmokinLoon on November 04, 2011, 07:58:56 AM
MachFly seems to be the resident expert on the use of force.   :headscratch:  Perhaps he has lots of experience in the use of force, or was educated in the use of force, or perhaps is just highly opinionated on the matter???  Or perhaps he knows what happened prior to the video, or what the history was of the known pilot, or owner of the aircraft, or he knew that the passengers of the aircraft were nuns from the local charity?

MachFly just seems to be able to judge from afar, know all the details, and is righteous in his decisions.  Anyone else notice this?   
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Shuffler on November 04, 2011, 09:15:04 AM
So if someone buys something using stolen money that something can be destroyed? If a 100K plane is no big loss for you, great, I don't have such money to just throw out.

lol Why in the world are you worried about the plane?

It was not yours.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Flipperk on November 04, 2011, 10:48:30 AM
Also I'd like to remind you guys that that wing is full of fuel, and I'm pretty sure it's not self sealing.

Putting all the risks together, that cop was lucky.

Spilling fuel does not self ignite, it needs an ignition source. They were on dirt terrain and the chances of the plane catching on fire were slim, the fuel cell probably never even got compromised and the engine was still elevated off of the ground. Remember these planes are built to crash, if the force of the car ramming the wing was strong enough for the wing to break away, it would have but it did not...the fuel cell most likely was still intact.

Cops do things to stop criminals, sometimes life threatening, it is all part of the job. You are critical of the actions taken by law enforcement... they have $150K in goods, probably in a stolen/illegally owned plane...they made the plane un-flyable, recovered the stolen goods, and arrested 5 criminals. 5 criminals that would probably do much worse as time goes on...

...I think it was worth it.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: mechanic on November 04, 2011, 10:56:33 AM
Awesome footage.

Take that bad guys.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: icepac on November 04, 2011, 11:02:13 AM
That airplane was not flying again.

Some of it's parts may.

IcePac........A&P
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Dinan on November 04, 2011, 11:13:22 AM
MachFly seems to be the resident expert on the use of force.

MachFly just seems to be able to judge from afar, know all the details, and is righteous in his decisions.  Anyone else notice this?   

He knows all because he  has a private ticket and captains a light twin.  This makes him an expert on all things aviation related.

Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: SmokinLoon on November 04, 2011, 12:02:05 PM
He knows all because he  has a private ticket and captains a light twin.  This makes him an expert on all things aviation related.



He may know the aircraft, but he doesn't know jack about that specific situation and he certainly didn't take in to account the collateral damage that the baddies have done or would have done in the future.  He certainly has no clue what happened prior to the video, who the pilot and passengers were, or anything else.  All he brought up ultimately was the US$ "value" of the aircraft.

Last but not least, hindsight is always 20/20.  That LEO did what he thought he needed to do to stop the plane from taking off.  Maybe he didnt know the wing would snap, maybe he was trying to get it to veer off.  We don't know.  Point is, in all situations, and I mean is ALL situations hold fast to your tongues especially if you've not ever been in *that* guys shoes ... AND... if you were not there.       

I have my Class II, does that make me an expert???  58 hours total between a Cesspool 150 and 172.  I guess I can call all the shots now too, eh???     
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: MutleyBR on November 04, 2011, 12:18:12 PM
Hi all!

It happened in Brasil, my home country.

The driver says "Donīt shoot! Donīt shoot! Am gonna hit the wing!"

They wanted to arrest the pilot to extract more information. The pilot and other 4 guys were arrested. One of them had been prviouly arrested for robbing armored value transport vehicles.

Police had been monitoring them for about a month. They had been smuggling drugs and other things from Paraguay.

Itīs very difficult to monitor Brazilian western borders with other countries due to its extension, terrain(tropical jungle and rivers and marshes) and lack of cooperation with some of their authorities.

Usually electronics, and other things, specially firearms and drugs(not a main producer, but used as  alternate route). Drugs come mostly from Bolivia, Peru and Colombia. Notice that Paraguay has no sea access, so other countries must be involved in the process...

A good example of anti drugs operations cooperation. US "advisors", Colombian Air Force pilots, operating a Brazilian made airplane(F-16īs and F-18īs are too fast for the job), intercepting drug loaded airplane heading for Brasil, over Colombian air space.

They bring drugs in planes from Colombia, Bolivia and Peru into Brazilian Amazon. Once in Brasil. they transport it in boats then land vehicles to distribution centers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nuxk4q15PQc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nuxk4q15PQc)

South America Map:

http://www.guiageo-americas.com/mapas/americasul-politico.htm (http://www.guiageo-americas.com/mapas/americasul-politico.htm)

Brazilian Air Force Super Tucanos intercepting unauthorized traffic over Brazilian air space:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofd9d7mMkTg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofd9d7mMkTg&feature=related)
 
We are also using Brazilian made radar planes, and for the moment, imported UAV's.

As we have the Olympic games, and World Soccer Cup games ahead, weīd better start worrying with a far worse problem, terrorism...


Take care all!

Mutley  :salute


Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: curry1 on November 04, 2011, 12:34:33 PM
MachFly I'd say he made the right decision.  Using a pit maneuver on the plane would have been dangerous for the five occupants that most certainly would have ground-looped and flipped the plane completely destroying it.  Contrary to what you may believe those law enforcement officers do not want to kill anybody which is the same reason that he didn't drive up and shoot the pilot.  All that does is give them a reason to shoot back at you which they wouldn't want either.  Shooting the tires may have worked possibly but shooting leaning out the side of a window of car at high speed doesn't seem safe, and depending on the plane it may not have mattered it could have took off anyway.

Also it not like pitting the plane or shooting at it would be less likely to set it on fire compared to ramming the plane itself.  First I think you don't care about the lives of the passengers of the plane and then you are worried about the fuel in the wings.  Are you just arguing for the sake or arguing or what?
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: MachFly on November 04, 2011, 07:28:37 PM
My problem is that the cop used a suicidal maneuver to stop the plane. He could have done it with less damage to the plane and a lot less risk to himself. I'm not questioning whether he should have been stopped or not, so I don't need to know what happened before it.


It was not yours.

They could have just gave it to me instead of destroying it.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: icepac on November 05, 2011, 09:58:33 AM
All he had to do was ping the rudder/elevator.

Those surfaces can be wiped out by a fat person walking into them.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: zack1234 on November 05, 2011, 12:31:23 PM
Planes are devices of the devil :old:

If we were meant to fly we would have been given wing :old:
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Flipperk on November 05, 2011, 12:54:20 PM
My problem is that the cop used a suicidal maneuver to stop the plane. He could have done it with less damage to the plane and a lot less risk to himself. I'm not questioning whether he should have been stopped or not, so I don't need to know what happened before it.


They could have just gave it to me instead of destroying it.


It wasn't a suicidal maneuver...your over reacting.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: colmbo on November 05, 2011, 01:01:43 PM
All he had to do was ping the rudder/elevator.

Those surfaces can be wiped out by a fat person walking into them.

With my luck if I had been that officer I would have bumped the elevator to disable it but instead it would go full up, the airplane would lift off, stall and crash killing everyone and I'd be buried by unlawful death lawsuits.   :t
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Puma44 on November 05, 2011, 01:04:59 PM

It wasn't a suicidal maneuver...your over reacting.

Ditto!  There's always an "expert" who knows better than the guy who was there and trained to do the job.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Puma44 on November 05, 2011, 01:10:03 PM
MachFly seems to be the resident expert on the use of force.   :headscratch:  Perhaps he has lots of experience in the use of force, or was educated in the use of force, or perhaps is just highly opinionated on the matter???  Or perhaps he knows what happened prior to the video, or what the history was of the known pilot, or owner of the aircraft, or he knew that the passengers of the aircraft were nuns from the local charity?

MachFly just seems to be able to judge from afar, know all the details, and is righteous in his decisions.  Anyone else notice this?   

Yes, I have also noticed that.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: SmokinLoon on November 05, 2011, 01:30:11 PM
Risky? Maybe.  Suicidal?  A bit harsh of a word, imo. 

Perhaps the LEO driver of the car was a licensed pilot as well?  Perhaps he knew exactly how fragile that aircraft was due to extensive research on the aircraft prior to the move to arrest was made.  We don't know anything other than what the video shows and therefore we all should hesitate and remember that hindsight is always 20/20, even when the details of the event we look at seem to be cleared, cut, and dried.   
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Puma44 on November 05, 2011, 01:40:44 PM
Risky? Maybe.  Suicidal?  A bit harsh of a word, imo. 

Perhaps the LEO driver of the car was a licensed pilot as well?  Perhaps he knew exactly how fragile that aircraft was due to extensive research on the aircraft prior to the move to arrest was made.  We don't know anything other than what the video shows and therefore we all should hesitate and remember that hindsight is always 20/20, even when the details of the event we look at seem to be cleared, cut, and dried.   

Well said, sir.  Law enforcement in itself is a risky business.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: SmokinLoon on November 05, 2011, 01:58:47 PM
Well said, sir.  Law enforcement in itself is a risky business.

Thanks.  FWIW, I wore the star of a deputy and PD officer in Iowa for almost 7 years.   ;)

Anyone ever see the entire video of the Rodney King video?  That video is the poster child for making judgement calls on "only what is seen", or more so what the media shows you.  ;)
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Puma44 on November 05, 2011, 02:29:22 PM
Thanks for your service, sir!  :salute  :salute

There is always way more to the story and facts than what the camera shows.  The "experts" who second guess those who were actually there are only fooling themselves.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: bagrat on November 05, 2011, 03:02:02 PM
bring back the p-51 for special operations to stop illegal flights of non jet aircraft
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: icepac on November 06, 2011, 08:48:29 AM
They have the super tucano.

(http://shrani.si/f/m/fc/1EwG2ttq/dsc00031.jpg)
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: curry1 on November 06, 2011, 09:44:07 AM

It wasn't a suicidal maneuver...your over reacting.

inb4 grammar nazi.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: Meatwad on November 06, 2011, 01:58:09 PM
:rofl

Brilliant

In UK they have just passed a law whereby you can use maximum force to defend your home. :old:


Too bad that law isnt in effect here in the US
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: LCCajun on November 06, 2011, 02:03:14 PM
Thanks.  FWIW, I wore the star of a deputy and PD officer in Iowa for almost 7 years.   ;)

Anyone ever see the entire video of the Rodney King video?  That video is the poster child for making judgement calls on "only what is seen", or more so what the media shows you.  ;)

I have a little over 4 yrs as a LEO and I am still one at the present time. I know exaclty what you mean with the RK video. The academy that I graduated from shows the full video to ever class, and the class has to disect it.
Title: Re: Police officer taking aout the wing of a small aircraft with his car.
Post by: VonMessa on November 06, 2011, 02:28:18 PM
The Cherokee that they destroyed cost 80-100K, plus all the 150K of stolen electronics inside. It was a suicidal maneuver that was absolutely not worth it the risk, I am surprised those cops were not decapitated.
He had a lot more than two options, and other options are a lot safer. He could have used the pit maneuver on the tail, would have worked just like with a car, could have used that M4 to take out the tires, and could have passed him and shot the pilot. 


It was a bit cowboy, but made for a great film.

I'm not sure about the decapitation factor...  I know what is going into the wings as I build my plane.  .032 spars, .025 ribs and .025 skin.  The capping on my windows on the house is the same thickness  :noid

The struts are really the only steel on the wings which are attached to the frame which is chromoly, and that is pretty gooey stuff.