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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Stoney on November 09, 2011, 11:26:50 AM

Title: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Stoney on November 09, 2011, 11:26:50 AM
DISCLAIMER:  IF YOU CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN THIS DISCUSSION WITHOUT VIOLATING SKUZZY'S RULES, DON'T POST...

Absolutely dumbfounded by this.  15 cents per tree to pay for promoting the sale of real Christmas trees.  Unreal.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Jayhawk on November 09, 2011, 11:32:16 AM
Just to be clear, it is $0.15 per tree, not a 15% tax as fox news reported in one of it's stories.  :rolleyes:

Quote
it's likely the 15 percent fee will be passed on to consumers

Per the story, it sounds like the Christmas tree industry are okay with this tax, it should only benefit them in the end. It's not a war on Christmas.

Oh, and this will not last.  IN
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Masherbrum on November 09, 2011, 11:40:16 AM
We get our trees from our corner lot, who are from the Upper Peninsula.   We will be there in three weeks buying one.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Dichotomy on November 09, 2011, 11:44:49 AM
I don't buy trees (allergies) and I tossed my artificial one last year.  Now that Squids grown I don't see the point in decorating for Christmas.  15 cents on however much a tree costs doesn't seem like much to me. 
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Maverick on November 09, 2011, 11:45:11 AM
Our tree is pre-decorated and lives in a 20" tall box when not in use. No room in our RV for a bigger tree and just the two of us here anyhow. We won't be paying no steenking tree tax.
 :old:
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: PFactorDave on November 09, 2011, 12:00:25 PM
A quick Google says that there are about 25 million live Christmas trees sold in the US each year.  Rounding up, that's about 4million dollars.  Subtract the cost of collecting the tax and the bureaucracy involved... 

Then consider how much a meaningful nationwide advertising campaign would cost...  Millions upon millions of dollars...

This has boondoggle written all over it.

I would be really curious to see whose pockets are getting lined by this.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Reschke on November 09, 2011, 12:07:35 PM
What a bunch of horse hockey! Yet again I am dumbfounded and glad that I am growing old and cynical all at once.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Delirium on November 09, 2011, 12:09:57 PM
15 cents per tree to pay for promoting the sale of real Christmas trees. 

If 15 cents is that big of a deal, don't buy a tree. I've heard a lot of complaints about excessive taxes, but complaining about a 15 cent flat tax on an item that isn't even necessary?

I don't see the big deal, I might be upset if it was $0.15 per inch of tree. Either way a 15 cent tax isn't worth the effort to get approved and definitely isn't worth the effort to fight.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: PFactorDave on November 09, 2011, 12:14:47 PM
If 15 cents is that big of a deal, don't buy a tree. I've heard a lot of complaints about excessive taxes, but complaining about a 1 cent flat tax on an item that isn't even necesary?

I don't see the big deal

When talking about the amount of the tax and it's burden on the tax payer, I totally agree with you Del.

But when I look at the virtually meaningless amount of money it will raise for the cause of promoting the sale of more Christmas trees, I have to wonder what the point of the tax is?  It starts to smell a little.

I mean, if the point is to promote the sale of trees and protect an industry, why not a more meaningful amount?
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Jayhawk on November 09, 2011, 12:22:19 PM
A quick Google says that there are about 25 million live Christmas trees sold in the US each year.  Rounding up, that's about 4million dollars.  Subtract the cost of collecting the tax and the bureaucracy involved... 

Then consider how much a meaningful nationwide advertising campaign would cost...  Millions upon millions of dollars...

This has boondoggle written all over it.

I would be really curious to see whose pockets are getting lined by this.

It's expected to raise 2 million a year for advertising for real trees.

Also, they consider it a fee, not a big deal but it's being politically sold as a "tax."
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Maverick on November 09, 2011, 12:39:38 PM
Promoting the use and sale of christmas trees is a cost of doing business, not the government. This has scam all over it from the government involvement in a purely private enterprise (promotion) to the idea that an administration bent on a "green" perspective would promote cutting down trees, even farmed trees.
 :huh
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Jayhawk on November 09, 2011, 12:44:43 PM
Promoting the use and sale of christmas trees is a cost of doing business, not the government. This has scam all over it from the government involvement in a purely private enterprise (promotion) to the idea that an administration bent on a "green" perspective would promote cutting down trees, even farmed trees.
 :huh

There aren't many people who consider themselves "green" who are completely against cutting down a tree.  That's simplistic and unrealistic.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Stoney on November 09, 2011, 02:57:39 PM
Ok, apparently this is in the same vein as the "Pork, the other white meat" and "Beef, its what's for dinner" campaigns.  I didn't realize those, like "the incredible edible egg" type campaigns were federally subsidized, but apparently they are.  So, ultimately, this is about whether or not the govt. should be involved at all in these types of things, and not just about Christmas trees.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Shuffler on November 09, 2011, 03:54:43 PM
Ok, apparently this is in the same vein as the "Pork, the other white meat" and "Beef, its what's for dinner" campaigns.  I didn't realize those, like "the incredible edible egg" type campaigns were federally subsidized, but apparently they are.  So, ultimately, this is about whether or not the govt. should be involved at all in these types of things, and not just about Christmas trees.

UHOH.... the turn has been made......... I hear foot steps..... sounds like Skuzzy
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: canacka on November 09, 2011, 03:56:23 PM
Separation of church and state.  Why tax something you shouldn't have a part in no matter how small the tax is?
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: RTHolmes on November 09, 2011, 03:59:54 PM
^ nice :aok
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: mbailey on November 09, 2011, 04:02:54 PM
We buy live ones every year, have one for every Xmas the kids have been alive.........Its starting to be a fence on one side of my property  :aok

.15cents for a tree tax isnt that bad at all..... If you purchase an artificial tree you'll pay sales tax on it Figure a decent artificial is $100. In my area at 6% sales tax = $6.00 tax. Now figure it lasts 10years.

.15cents on 10years worth of trees is $1.50........not a bad trade off
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Shuffler on November 09, 2011, 04:14:26 PM
I have a problem with it. How are these trees expected to pay this tax. I don't even know one that is working.


We are all going to end up having to support this when the trees fail to come through.


Why just Christmas tress..... what about the other trees..... ???


What about the cross dressing trees like the palms with Christmas lights in them....... it aint fair I tell ya... it aint......
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: mbailey on November 09, 2011, 04:20:32 PM
I have a problem with it. How are these trees expected to pay this tax. I don't even know one that is working.


We are all going to end up having to support this when the trees fail to come through.


Why just Christmas tress..... what about the other trees..... ???


What about the cross dressing trees like the palms with Christmas lights in them....... it aint fair I tell ya... it aint......

 :rofl
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: BERN1 on November 09, 2011, 04:26:04 PM
promoting the sale of real trees by taxing said sale of said trees???
this coming from a government that has declared war on the spiritual meaning of Christmas?
yea ok
will the last person out of the US please turn on the lights?obviously we are in the dark
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Ardy123 on November 09, 2011, 04:27:58 PM
promoting the sale of real trees by taxing said sale of said trees???

It got you thinking about it didnt it? don't think of xmass trees...


seriously though, although it may seem inappropriate for the government to be promoting (or discouraging) a product, this isn't the first time. I can understand anti-smoking ads or promoting healthy eating (such as white meat ads, vegi ads, milk ads, etc..) but are fake trees causing that serious of an issue that they need to 'get the message out'?
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: james on November 09, 2011, 04:34:45 PM
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h113/rcmtdriver/family_guy_thread.gif)
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: F22RaptorDude on November 09, 2011, 04:47:27 PM
We have a fake tree, so no problem here  :D
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: F22RaptorDude on November 09, 2011, 04:48:02 PM
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h113/rcmtdriver/family_guy_thread.gif)
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Babalonian on November 09, 2011, 06:34:24 PM
Ok, apparently this is in the same vein as the "Pork, the other white meat" and "Beef, its what's for dinner" campaigns.  I didn't realize those, like "the incredible edible egg" type campaigns were federally subsidized, but apparently they are.  So, ultimately, this is about whether or not the govt. should be involved at all in these types of things, and not just about Christmas trees.

Think you're mad now, don't look into what else the government already is/has been offering to private Christmass tree farmers for decades....

I mean, do if you want to truely get down into the mud and find your answer about who threw this looney idea against the wall and got it to stick, but don't blame me for comming out in the end dirtier and madder than you've gone in.   :D  :ahand

And with that and likely already INcurring a #14, *punches the release and hits the silk*, so long thread.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Dichotomy on November 09, 2011, 06:39:24 PM
UHOH.... the turn has been made......... I hear foot steps..... sounds like Skuzzy

RUNAWAY!!!! RUNAWAY!!!!!!
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: CAP1 on November 09, 2011, 06:49:46 PM
DISCLAIMER:  IF YOU CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN THIS DISCUSSION WITHOUT VIOLATING SKUZZY'S RULES, DON'T POST...

Absolutely dumbfounded by this.  15 cents per tree to pay for promoting the sale of real Christmas trees.  Unreal.

 as much as i hate to say this....to have that smell in my house, i'll pay it.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: CAP1 on November 09, 2011, 06:52:46 PM
I have a problem with it. How are these trees expected to pay this tax. I don't even know one that is working.


We are all going to end up having to support this when the trees fail to come through.


Why just Christmas tress..... what about the other trees..... ???


What about the cross dressing trees like the palms with Christmas lights in them....... it aint fair I tell ya... it aint......

 crossdressing trees?  :noid
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: BoilerDown on November 09, 2011, 08:22:13 PM
Does anyone have a link to a story describing this tax and what it applies to?

What about just trees?  Conifers.  Green in color.  During December.  Without a Christmas label?  Taxed or untaxed?
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Jayhawk on November 09, 2011, 10:03:33 PM
Does anyone have a link to a story describing this tax and what it applies to?

What about just trees?  Conifers.  Green in color.  During December.  Without a Christmas label?  Taxed or untaxed?


Here ya go:  http://bit.ly/ugCy8K

Doesn't matter, they've already put a hold on it.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: sluggish on November 09, 2011, 10:13:40 PM
We just cut the tops off our neighbor's trees.  There's no tax in that..

(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee435/bfc321/1topped.jpg)
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: wil3ur on November 09, 2011, 10:18:06 PM
Trees cause global warming.  Tax the hell out of them!
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: donna43 on November 10, 2011, 12:17:41 AM
A quick Google says that there are about 25 million live Christmas trees sold in the US each year.  Rounding up, that's about 4million dollars.  Subtract the cost of collecting the tax and the bureaucracy involved... 

Then consider how much a meaningful nationwide advertising campaign would cost...  Millions upon millions of dollars...

This has boondoggle written all over it.

I would be really curious to see whose pockets are getting lined by this.

That 25 million live Christmas trees sold in the US each year will be less this year due to the fact a xmas tree farm went up in smoke in the Bastrop,Tx fire on labor day of this tear. 
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Maverick on November 10, 2011, 09:04:57 AM
Like I said earlier, this had scam all over it. This did not come from the government, it was not a tax, it was the "industry" assessing a fee on itself to pay for the board promoting itself. Promoting the product is a function of business operations not the government.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/09/merry-christmas-agriculture-department-imposes-christmas-tree-tax/?test=latestnews
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: coombz on November 10, 2011, 09:09:14 AM
When talking about the amount of the tax and it's burden on the tax payer, I totally agree with you Del.

But when I look at the virtually meaningless amount of money it will raise for the cause of promoting the sale of more Christmas trees, I have to wonder what the point of the tax is?  It starts to smell a little.

I mean, if the point is to promote the sale of trees and protect an industry, why not a more meaningful amount?

 :old:  I'd say there are probably more significant corruption issues in the US to worry about than this potential Xmas tree dodginess!
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: wil3ur on November 10, 2011, 09:29:46 AM
:old:  I'd say there are probably more significant corruption issues in the US to worry about than this potential Xmas tree dodginess!

Yeah...  I hear the ATF has been caught in yet another scandal.  This time Arming the #1 Threat to America:



(http://www.wildanimalfightclub.com/Portals/41405/images//2893875876_7a238a713c.jpg)

BEARS!!!
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: coombz on November 10, 2011, 09:34:07 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q185ZtEocUA
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Jayhawk on November 10, 2011, 09:40:54 AM
Like I said earlier, this had scam all over it. This did not come from the government, it was not a tax, it was the "industry" assessing a fee on itself to pay for the board promoting itself. Promoting the product is a function of business operations not the government.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/09/merry-christmas-agriculture-department-imposes-christmas-tree-tax/?test=latestnews

The Ag Department has similar support for 20 other campaigns like this.  Since this campaign supports fresh trees, one could easily argue that this would help people buy local rather than imported artificial trees.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: wil3ur on November 10, 2011, 09:52:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q185ZtEocUA

It might have been a Samsquanch
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: coombz on November 10, 2011, 09:55:57 AM
:aok
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Rash on November 10, 2011, 10:01:43 AM
I like metal christmas trees.  It scares the bears  off, because of all the glitz.  I haven't had a bear attack since I bought one.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: BoilerDown on November 10, 2011, 11:33:11 AM
If they wanted to support live tree sellers, then why implement a tax on their products?  If they want to artificially swing support away from fake trees to live trees, then they should tax all trees and give the money to the live tree seller association.  But why is the government asked to do this at all?  Why can't the tree growers just pay a fee directly to their own association?  That's how it really doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Maverick on November 10, 2011, 11:36:26 AM
If they wanted to support live tree sellers, then why implement a tax on their products?  If they want to artificially swing support away from fake trees to live trees, then they should tax all trees and give the money to the live tree seller association.  But why is the government asked to do this at all?  Why can't the tree growers just pay a fee directly to their own association?  That's how it really doesn't make sense.


Simple. If they industry says they are raising prices for their own promotion, people are more likely to not want to pay it. If they claim it is a tax, it means the industry is NOT raising prices, that nasty ol government is doing it so folks don't think that the industry is just being "greedy".
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Reschke on November 10, 2011, 12:00:00 PM
Well they announced yesterday that they were going to shelve the program for now. If you buy a fresh or formerly living christmas tree this year I bet they go up between 5-10% just because people are going to say they need to do that to cover their "costs" from the suppliers.
Title: Re: Christmas Tree Tax
Post by: Babalonian on November 10, 2011, 02:16:47 PM
If they wanted to support live tree sellers, then why implement a tax on their products?  If they want to artificially swing support away from fake trees to live trees, then they should tax all trees and give the money to the live tree seller association.  But why is the government asked to do this at all?  Why can't the tree growers just pay a fee directly to their own association?  That's how it really doesn't make sense.


People seem to of missed my point.  Look into the oodles of tax breaks and goverment sponsoring of christmass tree farmers.  Look into who funded the lobying for this.  Clearly they need a tax and more goverment and consumer $$$, because life's already hard enough these days as a tree farmer with a lobyist in DC.

Not that I'm discouraging or anti chirstmass tree farms, but my stance is pigs should get fat - hogs should gets slaughtered.