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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: caldera on November 12, 2011, 11:20:09 PM

Title: De-acking hurts
Post by: caldera on November 12, 2011, 11:20:09 PM
Be careful de-acking, as it is fraught with danger.  Even the very best don't always succeed:

(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/AH2%20screenshots/110-2-1.png)

This poor fellow got a 30mm slap in the face.


(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/AH2%20screenshots/midway.png)

Don't let a little gun powder ruin your day.  C'mon and turn that frown upside down!  :) 
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: shiv on November 12, 2011, 11:23:13 PM
Too funny.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: 68ZooM on November 12, 2011, 11:28:07 PM
De-acking is an art form, i try to set my passes up for multiple guns on a single pass working the outer AAguns first and working my way in, i always have two or more guns lined up in my passes
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Letalis on November 12, 2011, 11:32:33 PM
Seeing a Spit deack is often like watching a snowball getting checked in the oven- it won't last long. Go have some tea mate and leave the grunt work to the American iron :D
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 12, 2011, 11:45:11 PM
Seeing a Spit deack is often like watching a snowball getting checked in the oven- it won't last long. Go have some tea mate and leave the grunt work to the American iron :D

You just got to make fast passes and avoid straight lines, also minimize the time that your doing directly into the gun. American planes wont survive 30mm hits either.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 12, 2011, 11:47:59 PM
Be careful de-acking, as it is fraught with danger.  Even the very best don't always succeed:

(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/AH2%20screenshots/110-2-1.png)

This poor fellow got a 30mm slap in the face.


(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/AH2%20screenshots/midway.png)

Don't let a little gun powder ruin your day.  C'mon and turn that frown upside down!  :) 

Did I miss something?
What's so special about Midway de-acking? We all do it, we all get shot, and we all don't survive 30mm hits. I understand you can make fun of someone for HOing in a Spit, but there is nothing special about de-acking.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: oakranger on November 13, 2011, 12:09:04 AM
Did I miss something?
What's so special about Midway de-acking? We all do it, we all get shot, and we all don't survive 30mm hits. I understand you can make fun of someone for HOing in a Spit, but there is nothing special about de-acking.

It just one of those, "look at me!  Look at me!" post.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Midway on November 13, 2011, 12:14:00 AM
Did I miss something?
What's so special about Midway de-acking? We all do it, we all get shot, and we all don't survive 30mm hits. I understand you can make fun of someone for HOing in a Spit, but there is nothing special about de-acking.

But I often successfully deack an entire small or medium air field so when I fail they like to talk about it.  :D
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Karnak on November 13, 2011, 12:47:19 AM
Seeing a Spit deack is often like watching a snowball getting checked in the oven- it won't last long. Go have some tea mate and leave the grunt work to the American iron :D
Sorry, but the lack of cannon make US aircraft, other than the P-38, not well suited to deacking.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Midway on November 13, 2011, 12:49:38 AM
Sorry, but the lack of cannon make US aircraft, other than the P-38, not well suited to deacking.

One cannon round takes out a gun.   :D
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: 68ZooM on November 13, 2011, 12:50:47 AM
couple P51's with rockets can kill up to 12 ack guns with the rockets depending on how good the pilot is with using rockets, P38 leaves to much of a profile for ack guns.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Midway on November 13, 2011, 01:08:00 AM
couple P51's with rockets can kill up to 12 ack guns with the rockets depending on how good the pilot is with using rockets, P38 leaves to much of a profile for ack guns.

One Spitfire will deack an entire base (small or medium) incl all auto and manned guns.   :D
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tyrannis on November 13, 2011, 01:09:53 AM
Sorry, but the lack of cannon make US aircraft, other than the P-38, not well suited to deacking.
Ive had no problems deacking towns in p40s,p51s,p47s,or f6fs. Even the b25C with the nose guns can get the job done if you pilot her right.

But its ok, we understand the German/British planes need cannons to make up for their lack in "other" areas... :D
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Midway on November 13, 2011, 01:34:52 AM
Ive had no problems deacking towns in p40s,p51s,p47s,or f6fs. Even the b25C with the nose guns can get the job done if you pilot her right.

But its ok, we understand the German/British planes need cannons to make up for their lack in "other" areas... :D

 :huh  A town?   :lol  Eight guns.  :lol   :bhead  :lol  :rolleyes:

I challenge you to post a film decking a small airfield, all guns auto and manned, using a P anything or an F anything.  Or, if you thing you're up for it, deack a medium air field. :)

Want to see a film of a Spitfire deacking a medium air field? :aok  :D
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: nrshida on November 13, 2011, 02:02:28 AM
 :rofl Name badge was a very funny touch  :aok

Midway make a de-acking tutorial film please! (http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/popcorn.gif)
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tyrannis on November 13, 2011, 02:05:10 AM
:huh  A town?   :lol  Eight guns.  :lol   :bhead  :lol  :rolleyes:

I challenge you to post a film decking a small airfield, all guns auto and manned, using a P anything or an F anything.  Or, if you thing you're up for it, deack a medium air field. :)

Want to see a film of a Spitfire deacking a medium air field? :aok  :D
Think about what you just said.
a Spitfire, with 2 20mm cannons, and 2 little .303 guns, can deack a medium airfield.
Are you trying to say something as buffed up as say, a p47, with rockets+ 8x.50 cals cant? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Midway on November 13, 2011, 02:10:43 AM
Think about what you just said.
a Spitfire, with 2 20mm cannons, and 2 little .303 guns, can deack a medium airfield.
Are you trying to say something as buffed up as say, a p47, with rockets+ 8x.50 cals cant? :rolleyes:

Maybe it can.  I do not know.  But am sure a spitfire can having done it.  I'll have to try it with a p47, p51, or f4u to see.  :headscratch:

I just hear some make fun of a spitfire deacking a base as if it has trouble doing it.   It is actually very good at it if flown right.  :aok
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: icepac on November 13, 2011, 08:13:02 AM
I saw a p47 launch 11 missiles the other day deacking a large and undefended base.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: caldera on November 13, 2011, 03:07:08 PM
Did I miss something?
What's so special about Midway de-acking? We all do it, we all get shot, and we all don't survive 30mm hits. I understand you can make fun of someone for HOing in a Spit, but there is nothing special about de-acking.

There really is nothing special about de-acking, except for Midway making a thread about "pwnage":

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,323138.0.html

Just trying to keep the lad's ego in check.   :)
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: DMVIAGRA on November 13, 2011, 04:18:46 PM
But I often successfully deack an entire small or medium air field so when I fail they like to talk about it.  :D

Sure you do, haha, I've had you up and I had a fully loaded P-47 and de-acked the whole base. You must have taken off half a dozen times, because I vulched you with rockets.  :D
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: RTHolmes on November 13, 2011, 04:40:32 PM
I hate to agree with midway but the spit is a great deacker. the 20mm has plenty of splash and great ballistics, you can snipe acks from way out with 1 round, 2 if you want to be sure. it doesnt lose much E porpoising to evade the guns and rebuilds E for repeated strafing runs very easily. I'd take a single 20mm in any plane for deacking over .50s and I fly the jug a fair bit.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: stash on November 13, 2011, 04:46:08 PM
That photo-shopped in Midway name Tag was a pretty witty week's work....



Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 13, 2011, 04:53:00 PM
There really is nothing special about de-acking, except for Midway making a thread about "pwnage":

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,323138.0.html

Just trying to keep the lad's ego in check.   :)

I missed that thread. Got it.  :lol
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 13, 2011, 04:54:15 PM
Think about what you just said.
a Spitfire, with 2 20mm cannons, and 2 little .303 guns, can deack a medium airfield.
Are you trying to say something as buffed up as say, a p47, with rockets+ 8x.50 cals cant? :rolleyes:

It's a lot easier to de-ack with canons than 50cals. Even if you have 8 of them.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 13, 2011, 04:54:19 PM
Official RLM list of procedures for de-acking a base:

1) approach the base from no less than 4000 ft
2) always start on the edges, working your way toward the center
3) maintain airspeed through the pass, don't make any hard turns, and extend beyond ack range
4) zoom upwards with any remaining speed, and loop over the top to make a second pass
5) pray to god the AA gunners are all too toasted to see
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 13, 2011, 04:55:59 PM
Official RLM list of procedures for de-acking a base:

1) approach the base from no less than 4000 ft
2) always start on the edges, working your way toward the center
3) maintain airspeed through the pass, don't make any hard turns, and extend beyond ack range
4) zoom upwards with any remaining speed, and loop over the top to make a second pass
5) pray to god the AA gunners are all too toasted to see

RLM:  Reichsluftfahrtministerium?

Is step 5 really and official procedure?
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 13, 2011, 05:00:11 PM
Of course.

Quote
Betet zu Gott, dem Flakkanoniere sind zu betrunken, um Meerenge sehen
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 13, 2011, 05:01:44 PM
Of course.


WOW
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 13, 2011, 05:14:46 PM
 ...... can't tell if you're seriously thinking they would put that in a manual, or if you're just playing along with the joke.


No, its not actually on the list. Infact, there is no list of procedures that I'm aware of.

If there were, the propoganda would already have stated that the AA gunners are either incompetent or too drunk to see, and so therefore the pilot is invincible, so the 'pray' item would be a contradiction to previous statments. German propoganda may be full of BS, but its smart BS, if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: DMVIAGRA on November 13, 2011, 05:29:02 PM
Ok, you all want to know what the best de-acking machine is?

BF110 with the dual 30s and (not sure how many) 20mms and 7.62s..

P-47

P-39
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: hotard on November 13, 2011, 05:35:34 PM
Bf-110 has great fire power, but way too big of a target. The faster and more nimble the better. Cannons the best, as you can snap-shot a gun down; .50's you have to dwell on the target. I *cough*admire *cough*  the guys who can fly down the length of a small field, taking out 4-5 guns without a scratch.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 13, 2011, 05:37:39 PM
...... can't tell if you're seriously thinking they would put that in a manual, or if you're just playing along with the joke.


No, its not actually on the list. Infact, there is no list of procedures that I'm aware of.

If there were, the propoganda would already have stated that the AA gunners are either incompetent or too drunk to see, and so therefore the pilot is invincible, so the 'pray' item would be a contradiction to previous statments. German propoganda may be full of BS, but its smart BS, if you know what I mean.

I realized it was a joke after you said "of course".
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 13, 2011, 05:38:22 PM
Bf-110 has great fire power, but way too big of a target. The faster and more nimble the better. Cannons the best, as you can snap-shot a gun down; .50's you have to dwell on the target.

Agreed
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 13, 2011, 05:41:13 PM
Hotard, try it in a 190A5 or A8. Start from 5-6k, dive in, and hug the ground.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 13, 2011, 05:47:39 PM
Hotard, try it in a 190A5 or A8. Start from 5-6k, dive in, and hug the ground.

Hugging the ground will bleed off too much energy going around obstacles.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 13, 2011, 06:10:00 PM
Thats why you set up your approach so you don't have to dodge any. When I do this, I usually make a run down one side of the runway,  killing any and all guns that get close to my nose (tap the rudder to adjust aim left or right), and then I zoom out the other side.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 13, 2011, 06:24:07 PM
Thats why you set up your approach so you don't have to dodge any. When I do this, I usually make a run down one side of the runway,  killing any and all guns that get close to my nose (tap the rudder to adjust aim left or right), and then I zoom out the other side.

Than you would be flying directly towards a gun for a long time, this would make you an easy target.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 13, 2011, 06:38:45 PM
Any run that isn't cutting across one of the corners on the field puts you flying towards a gun for a long time.



And sorry, I was thinking of the A5/A8 for the quick dive in on the outside of the field. I was thinking of the F8, with its great frontal armor for the dive through the middle approach.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 13, 2011, 06:50:15 PM
Any run that isn't cutting across one of the corners on the field puts you flying towards a gun for a long time.

No it doesn't, your pointing directly towards a gun only when your firing at it or when you aligned yourself to take out more than one gun in a straight line.
The way you should do it is when rolling out of a turn (or pulling out of a dive) the ack gun becomes in your sight and you fire, you can't afford to align it in your sight. When you make a pass to take out more than one gun you'll be pointing towards more than one gun at the same time, but because you can only fire at one and they all can fire at you the odds of you getting hit significantly increase.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 13, 2011, 06:54:18 PM
Yet the volume of fire also reduces slower, and it takes longer to get it done overall.


My view on the matter is that if we need the field de-acked, and we need it de-acked now, its better to take out as much ack as quickly as possible so your friends deacking with you don't get hit as much, and come back with a fresh plane if you die, than to take your time and loose momentum in an attack.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: MachFly on November 13, 2011, 06:57:03 PM
Your right. When your alone however in order to survive you have to be doing it the way I described above.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 13, 2011, 07:13:14 PM
Of course the situations in which a single plane is depended on to deack an entire field is rare.

Usually such a situation results from a small preciecly planned and timed raid, or from a failed or poorly planned attack.


Only other time I can think of when you would be alone is if you're in the middle of a big fight, and you're the only one who decides to de-ack, aiding your friends at the expense of your cartoon life.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: W7LPNRICK on November 13, 2011, 07:20:22 PM
The old map was so much easier...could usually de-ack and entire port or V-base with one Jug and a couple passes. It's a little tougher now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTcA1joVuBA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTcA1joVuBA)   :salute
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Letalis on November 13, 2011, 10:46:04 PM
Even though my all time fav ride is the Jug, it IS possible to deack w a spit, given.  My nomination for best ack-buster= 190A8.  Small profile, reasonable toughness, radial engine, fuel tanks that don't pop often and last but not least, good firepower.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: icepac on November 14, 2011, 11:44:26 AM
Has anybody acquired the expertise to use the B25h big gun or the yak9t 37mm for ack killing with a bit more stand-off distance?

I've hit bombers at 2k out with the yak9t gun but haven't gotten good enough with it for deacking.

Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Krusty on November 14, 2011, 11:45:39 AM
Assuming general safety from enemy air power, a 110G or a mossie do nicely. You can't bank on getting out unscathed, and that second engine and the beefed up firepower make a big difference.


Of course, I'd say the best tip to de-acking no matter what plane you fly is: DO IT WITH FRIENDS! Simply split up the defensive fire to multiple targets and it goes down faster.

The only reason to do it alone is if you're milk running an undefended field.  :noid
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Krusty on November 14, 2011, 11:48:03 AM
Has anybody acquired the expertise to use the B25h big gun or the yak9t 37mm for ack killing with a bit more stand-off distance?

I've hit bombers at 2k out with the yak9t gun but haven't gotten good enough with it for deacking.

It's okay for deacking. You can do it. Not from outside the ack range, but still from further out. Like any other gunnery it takes practice to develop the right mental angles and estimations. One of the easier angles is straight down, so come in 3k, dive, fire 2 rounds, loop up, swing around, reposition. Takes a bit of time, but for me the reason I don't do that is because the P-39 is utterly wasted as ground attack. It is truly a fighter IMO and I want to use those spuds to see fiery round explosions emanating from enemy aircraft. It only has 30, so if I waste 20 deacking that's all the fewer rounds I can send down-range toward enemy fighters.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: W7LPNRICK on November 14, 2011, 08:21:01 PM
I haven't had enough cockpit time in the f8, but those 12 rkts are hell on ack....as you say "stand-off" ishly. Accuracy of coarse isn't critical either.  :airplane:
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 14, 2011, 08:24:43 PM
Love deacking in the F8. Always got complaints of "HAX!!!!" when I would make 4-5 passes and come out unscathed near enough  :lol.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: W7LPNRICK on November 14, 2011, 08:35:09 PM
Love deacking in the F8. Always got complaints of "HAX!!!!" when I would make 4-5 passes and come out unscathed near enough  :lol.
No one who spent any time shooting at a 190 from guns or flying one would scream "Hax". One of the hardest to hit from Manned ack and for that reason easier to de-ack. The only disadvantage the Jug has, is it's a BIG target(Cross-Section)....not a 38, but largest single engine easily.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: Tank-Ace on November 14, 2011, 08:46:30 PM
No, and thats why its funny. People assume that because their P-51 can't do the same thing, that I must be cheating, even if they easily kill me once my E has been bled on the deacking passes.
Title: Re: De-acking hurts
Post by: ap1102 on November 15, 2011, 07:39:55 AM
Can any one of you dispute the fact that EZRhino is the best de-acker in the game? I thought not.