Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: cpxxx on December 04, 2011, 05:58:49 PM
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http://vimeo.com/31202906
Great video, this one took me by surprise and I ought to know better.
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That's not the ending I expected.
Thanks for posting.
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Uhm.. check me if I'm wrong, I'm by no means a person who is good at identifying spitfires... but shouldn't those Spitfires be armed with .303's and not hispanos?
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Awesomeness
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Just watched all the videos on that channel, The German was good, but I like A Lonely Sky much more.
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Uhm.. check me if I'm wrong, I'm by no means a person who is good at identifying spitfires... but shouldn't those Spitfires be armed with .303's and not hispanos?
I don't know when that battle takes place so time wise it might be wrong, but the Spitfire itself looks like a mk V.
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Excellent find, thanks for sharing!
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Just watched all the videos on that channel, The German was good, but I like A Lonely Sky much more.
Both were very good. The CGI in Lonely Sky could have been better, but it didn't ruin the film.
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I don't know when that battle takes place so time wise it might be wrong, but the Spitfire itself looks like a mk V.
Well he's fighting a 109E in a daylight fight over Britain, which puts it during the BoB. And I'm pretty sure that means only Mk 1 spits were involved... just seems odd to me.
Very nice video all around, however.
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Why would the Irish ask the British pilot to put down the weapon? Is there something in history i am missing?
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Why would the Irish ask the British pilot to put down the weapon? Is there something in history i am missing?
If you watch the end of the video you'll know.
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Well he's fighting a 109E in a daylight fight over Britain, which puts it during the BoB. And I'm pretty sure that means only Mk 1 spits were involved... just seems odd to me.
Very nice video all around, however.
There is a possibility that it was a minor engagement after the BoB. Plus most battles during BoB were over the south-east part of Britain, this was over Ireland.
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I liked it
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One factor overlooked was the Bf 109E had barely enough range to spend 10 minutes over London... dogfighting over Ireland... Not possible.
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One factor overlooked was the Bf 109E had barely enough range to spend 10 minutes over London... dogfighting over Ireland... Not possible.
That's the biggest 'oops' I've seen folks comment on. Not much chance of a 109E fighting a Spit V over Ireland. I did the 'suspend my disbelief' bit as it initially reminded me of an old Roald Dahl story about an RAF and LW pilot who get locked into that kind of fight to the death even after they are on the ground. Had it been a Ju-88 or He-111, it would not have really allowed that 1 v 1. And that I think was the key to keeping the focus off the 'surprise' at the end.
Interesting that this showed up not too long after that Spitfire excavation in Ireland of a bird flown by an American in the RAF, who was briefly interned there.
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The Spitfire Mk V entered squadron service in late 1940 - early 1941. The 109F didn't appear in numbers until the summer of 1941. The Bf 109E served in Luftwaffe front line units well into 1942.
In theory a 109E-7 with a droptank (max range ~1300 km) could have reached Ireland.
(http://longstreet.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/09/16/blog1sept_16_aviation_maps_germany5.jpg)
In theory...
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I did not know that 240 German and allies where prison in Irland.....well, i knew Germans where.
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I did not know that 240 German and allies where prison in Irland.....well, i knew Germans where.
It was not only Argentina that Nazi war criminals escaped to but also Ireland after the war.
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One factor overlooked was the Bf 109E had barely enough range to spend 10 minutes over London... dogfighting over Ireland... Not possible.
I kinda figured the initial battle of over (or near) Ireland.
If the battle was really over London it would take too long to accidently get to Ireland even if they had fuel, would have had to be one of our AH 4 sector chases.
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If you watch the end of the video you'll know.
spotted what i had missed. :aok
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Just watched all the videos on that channel, The German was good, but I like A Lonely Sky much more.
ok but where is chuck yeager?
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ok but where is chuck yeager?
I assume Yeager came after that because no one in the video survived.
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The Spitfire Mk V entered squadron service in late 1940 - early 1941. The 109F didn't appear in numbers until the summer of 1941. The Bf 109E served in Luftwaffe front line units well into 1942.
In theory a 109E-7 with a droptank (max range ~1300 km) could have reached Ireland.
(http://longstreet.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/09/16/blog1sept_16_aviation_maps_germany5.jpg)
In theory...
If that map is accurate its more then just theory. But well within Ireland
Obviously some did otherwise they wouldnt have been interned there.
Considering the 109 had an oil hit and was running away from the spit. Its not outside the realm of possibility that the 109 pilot figured he would probably not make it back home and intentionally ran to Ireland all the while dumping alt.
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I assume Yeager came after that because no one in the video survived.
i need to do more research... :bhead
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If that map is accurate its more then just theory. But well within Ireland
Obviously some did otherwise they wouldnt have been interned there.
Considering the 109 had an oil hit and was running away from the spit. Its not outside the realm of possibility that the 109 pilot figured he would probably not make it back home and intentionally ran to Ireland all the while dumping alt.
~1300 km max range on best economical cruise settings. Not in combat and running flat out with a Spit on its tail. I don't know, might have happened.
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To answer your speculation about endurance, this 109 would have had to have a drop tank, and the raid would have to be on the ports of S-Wales. From there over to Ireland the distance is more or less under 100 km. That would still have been some 15 minutes to cover, or close to that.
The Spitfire would have been from 10th group, not so sure about the 109.
The British actually kept a squadron in N-Ireland during the BoB, but those were Hurricanes.
The LW actually attacked Dublin a few times (!!!), as well as Belfast, who got bombed quite a bit in 1941. It was a nasty raid and killed some 1000 people, but it was at night.
I guess one has to look at the film again and try to figure out, but thanks for the finding.
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There are a few inconsistencies there alright. But I don't suppose the budget ran to getting it all perfectly accurate. Actually a more plausible ending would be for them both to end up in France with the RAF pilot finding himself facing some German soldiers. Also I think losing most of your wing would probably prove fatal even if you can get away with in Ace High.
But it is possible for them to end up over Ireland, after bombing raid on say; Bristol. The Irish sea is quite narrow there and at Spitfire speeds would be crossed easily and end up in the vicinity of Wexford. My Mother grew up there during the war and told me she could hear bombing over in England. So it's quite close. In fact her Uncle's house in Wexford was accidently bombed by a Heinkel 111 during the BoB.
But no 109 ever came down over Ireland. Quite a few Luftwaffe bombers did though, either shot down by the RAF or lost. There were a couple of running battles, and several cases where both attacker and attacked ended up crashing in Ireland. Quite often the crews had no idea where they were so the ending in the story is quite plausible.
The caption at the end of the film mentions the interned crews. It's not strictly correct either, only the Germans were interned to the end of the war. All the British were sent home by 1943 and in any case they mostly stopped interning British airmen around 1942, quietly sending them back across the border. No USAAF aircrew were ever interned.
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http://vimeo.com/31202906
Great video, this one took me by surprise and I ought to know better.
I haven't watched it all the way through, but what I've seen so far is very impressive. The CGI is very well done, particularly with the sound effects. As a reenactor, I can see the costuming is top notch.
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Ireland was neutral, and some of the Gov. and IRA supported the Nazi's
Some even went as far as devising plan for invasion of Ireland for a jump-off
to invade England. The plan was turned down by German High Command.
:cheers: Oz
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I was waiting for the surprise ending.. but the cigarette wasn't boobytrapped in the end. I was a bit disappointed.
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Ireland was neutral, and some of the Gov. and IRA supported the Nazi's
Some even went as far as devising plan for invasion of Ireland for a jump-off
to invade England. The plan was turned down by German High Command.
:cheers: Oz
I thought I read something about some Germans looking for the right spot in Irland for invasion.
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"the Bf 109E had barely enough range to spend 10 minutes over London... dogfighting over Ireland... Not possible."
What if the 109E pilot toggled E and glided a lot. Just like pile-its in AH
;)
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That was awesome. They should make a feature film with that technology about the battle of Britain.
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Ireland was neutral, and some of the Gov. and IRA supported the Nazi's
Some even went as far as devising plan for invasion of Ireland for a jump-off
to invade England. The plan was turned down by German High Command.
:cheers: Oz
The Germans were never really interested in invading Ireland. Assuming they got past the Royal Navy and RAF, they would hardly have received a welcome from the Irish. It wouldn't have been worth their while. During the war the IRA collaborated with the Nazis. As a result they were rounded up and interned for the duration. There was a lot more pro British/Allied feeling than anti.
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If that map is accurate its more then just theory. But well within Ireland
Obviously some did otherwise they wouldnt have been interned there.
Considering the 109 had an oil hit and was running away from the spit. Its not outside the realm of possibility that the 109 pilot figured he would probably not make it back home and intentionally ran to Ireland all the while dumping alt.
Er, no.... It's 275 air miles from London to the nearest coast of Ireland, across the Irish Sea.
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The OKH (Oberkommando des Heeres ) - German High Command's
Main reasons for not pursuing an Invasion were:
#1 Fear of German Armies cutoff.
#2 Inability to maintain supplies.
Exactly the (correct) points that the OKH argued against Barbarossa.
:cheers: Oz
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great film :aok
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd313/natorino/cobrajet.jpg)
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Awsome :aok
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Er, no.... It's 275 air miles from London to the nearest coast of Ireland, across the Irish Sea.
That's assuming they were fighting over London...
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~1300 km max range on best economical cruise settings. Not in combat and running flat out with a Spit on its tail. I don't know, might have happened.
And if you look at the map at the 750KM mark that puts you well within Ireland
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"the Bf 109E had barely enough range to spend 10 minutes over London... dogfighting over Ireland... Not possible."
What if the 109E pilot toggled E and glided a lot. Just like pile-its in AH
;)
It wasnt dog fighting over Ireland It merely ended there
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Er, no.... It's 275 air miles from London to the nearest coast of Ireland, across the Irish Sea.
and your assuming that they (in the video) were fighting over London. What if they werent?
In the entire video we dont see anything that even resembles london. and the fight in part is taking place over water.
Gotta remember too this is only a story. A work of fiction doesnt have to be 1000% accurate. It just has to be a good story.
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Well the pilot on the RAF side certainly assumed he was over English soil, and that my friends is at least 10 minutes of flight, flat out and from Wales ;)
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Well it is just a story, with a twist. Plausibility is not always the first priority in these things. Anyone seen Topgun lately?
You're right Angus, it's just a short hop between Wales and the South West, made the trip myself in something a lot slower over cloud as it happens. (Was mistaken for an errant missile or drone by a military controller as it happens. But that's another story.) It's a popular routing for light aircraft. Still nervewracking being single engined over the sea beyond gliding distance of land.
Actually I might be visiting your neck of the woods quite soon. The boss bought another Airvan in Iceland the other day. Going to ferry it home after Christmas. Should be very interesting :uhoh.
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That british pilot is a real rocknrolla.
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and your assuming that they (in the video) were fighting over London. What if they werent?
In the entire video we dont see anything that even resembles london. and the fight in part is taking place over water.
Gotta remember too this is only a story. A work of fiction doesnt have to be 1000% accurate. It just has to be a good story.
Just keep in mind that the 109E had a 10 minute combat endurance over London, whereupon he must head for home or not make it back.... So perhaps, a 109E could reach Ireland, but he'd be out of gas when he arrived. Thus, theer is no reason for a Spitfire and 109 to be anywhere near Ireland.
I realize that some stories require the suspension of disbelief, but folks like me, with a history background and flying experience will tend to roll our eyes.
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Widewing, from August 1940 the 109E-4s were retrofitted with the plumbing for droptanks developed for the 109E-7. The often quoted 10-minutes over London is without droptanks.
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Well it is just a story, with a twist. Plausibility is not always the first priority in these things. Anyone seen Topgun lately?
You're right Angus, it's just a short hop between Wales and the South West, made the trip myself in something a lot slower over cloud as it happens. (Was mistaken for an errant missile or drone by a military controller as it happens. But that's another story.) It's a popular routing for light aircraft. Still nervewracking being single engined over the sea beyond gliding distance of land.
Actually I might be visiting your neck of the woods quite soon. The boss bought another Airvan in Iceland the other day. Going to ferry it home after Christmas. Should be very interesting :uhoh.
Gimme a tink if you're here, I have many friends in aviation here.
What kind of Airvan was it?
BTW, a friend of mine once took his Cessna 172 to Greenland. Now that is a full endurance flight, and he put it simply:
If you're going down in THAT drink, you're dead. Trust in god and lycoming ;)