Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: dirtdart on December 05, 2011, 01:33:32 PM
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Gents, last night I got my butt handed to me by 4510. Another big <S> at you if you do come to the boards. Anyway, I could not get a decent lead on him, or even seem to track him as I moved through the positions. What I found most challenging was the orientation of the gunsights between position changes. I figured, small plane, crew talks, as the plane moves to different gunners visibility, they are aware and ready to pick them up. If all of the guns can track, why dont all the gunsights? How do some of you deal with that?
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I don't remember having that issue the last time I was in a B-29.... :headscratch: Sights seemed to track just fine. Let me check it out right quick....
EDIT: I saw what you meant with the waist guns. They do reset to face rear except when switching between them aiming high or low (even then they were facing rearward-ish). Didn't really notice that till you mentioned it and I went and played in the turrets. The few times I've been intercepted in one, they were either coming in high/low 6 or from directly below (which is EXTREMELY easy for me to track and hit them from). How often do you fly the 29 and a what altitudes? I generally fly at mission altitude, hence why I didn't encounter this problem until now. Regardless, I would find it a bit annoying as well...
EDIT again. Not sure how WOUND replaced WOULD.... :lol
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4510 had the patience of a saint. I could only get to 24k with the load I was carrying. At the time of intercept I was at 80 fuel with 16 k bomb load. He got above and abeam and then made extremely smooth passes losing very little e and held his position. His path made me jump though three positions to track him and the orientation of the sight kept throwing me off. And I am not 990000 on the guns either. Lol. At 36k it is very hard for someone to out climb you. Most have to attack to the rear and low.
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Sounds like you just need a little practice. The B-29 guns can be tricky to get used to, but they offer and astounding range of motion. Keep in mind the guns are not located where the gunners are. You don't need to jump to the closest view to get the best guns range. Stay in the view that gives you best coverage for his entrance AND exit, and the guns will track.
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I guess it will eventually all come down to practice. The reticles are the same on all guns, and since the guns are not in the same place as the sight, all of my points of aim, leading, etc... seemed to be quite off. Thanks for the feedback gents.
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The load out I almost always take is the 40 500lbers with 100% fuel and 2x ammo, and I very rarely climb past 30k (it was my understanding that 30k or more was mission altitude). Hence why I don't get intercepted often and haven't encountered this problem. But I did take it up offline to play in the turrets and saw the problem. With those waist sights resetting to "default" position each time, it would be a major pain to track properly and could easily cost you.
The only advice I can give you at this time is: Try to stay in the top as much as possible and only use the sides when they exit. When it comes to leading, it'll take practice. Have to take into account that the convergence is 500 out, so when they get close enough, try to ensure you are hitting with the forward top turret when possible. Only once did I have someone get close enough for me to readjust my aim in such a manner. Eventually you'll have the experience and will do okay. :aok
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I am starting to think about a gunsight for the b29.... I will also say the other huge challenge with the 29 guns is how awful the visibilitiy is, especially in the tail.
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Oh yeah. Can't see spit from the tail. It's rare for me to be in the tail because of the visibility. Only if there are practically coming in dead 6, am I in the tail. Otherwise I'm in a side turret to track em. Since 9/10 they are coming in low 6, it's not a big problem when switching between side turrets.
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The thing I hate is the gunsight blocks most of your view. I don't think this is realistic from what I've seen, and somebody who's actually been in one and stood at the gunsight says it's not anywhere near that bad. It blocks your view, but it has good range of view, if you get what I mean? So I can see it is hard to follow/acquire a target because of how HTC modeled the views. However you can overcome this with F3 and F1 toggling. Scope a con with F3 and when he's getting near to make a run, move to F1 to track/lead your shot.
That kind of thing.
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Well the HTC staff can't model the computing gunsight the 29's had. I believe we are using the "backup" sight.
Something that may be of use about it...
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/other-mechanical-systems-tech/b-29-engineering-flight-book-8691.html
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They can. They choose not to. The thing about the computing gun sights is they weren't perfect, and they just took in a most likely adjusted lead to the target.
In AH terms you might as well add aimbot. That they have chosen NOT to is a credit to them.
Now, if only they could add overheat to all 4-engine bombers so they don't run around 2x or 3x faster than they did historically.....
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I'm not complaining that the computing sight was left out. I wouldn't want my aim to get crappier than it already is because of it. :lol
As for the overheat, it should be added to ALL aircraft then, not just bombers. :aok Now, if they would update the E6B to tell you power settings based on your altitude, that would be sweet. :x
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Power setting is your throttle and RPM. You get that from the cockpit!
Well yes, and no on the overheat. Most of the fighters in the game are modeled with non-WEP being continuous power, on the order of it is a rating that can be maintained indefinitely, or in some cases (on some planes) a 30+ minute rating. Since no sortie in this game will probably last that long any way due to fuel burn, HTC does it this way. WEP is of course limited and had overheat limits (cutoffs).
Bombers, on the other hand, don't work this way... They never flew even max continuous. They cruised when climbing. WEP was truly only for catastrophic emergencies. They used max cruise at alt because of the ranges they flew, and they didn't take off with any less than full gas. Whatever the max fuel allowed by their bomb load, they took off with that. Even when bombers took short runs across the channel into France, they always took full fuel. They were bombers, they needed it. They were not performance monsters, they were not uncatchable, and overall they were more worried with getting the job done in a repeatable way than in getting it done so fast it destroyed the airframe and all the engines onboard.
That's the problem with level bombers. Even in the heat of combat over a target they were cruising. In the heat of combat fighters were using max power because of the totally different philosophies behind the bomber/fighter design.
So, yes it would probably be nice to have overheat on all of them but for the most part this doesn't affect fighters as we have them now, and WOULD greatly affect bombers. End result: If you just add it to bombers the problem is solved. If you add it to all, well the problem is still solved.
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Power setting is your throttle and RPM. You get that from the cockpit!
The best cruise/best loiter/best fuel efficiency manifold pressure and RPM settings change with altitude. Each aircraft type has a table that gives the settings for different altitudes; the pilot interpolates for altitudes in between. I think this is what Volron was talking about.
- oldman
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I think strictly speaking that's not the case for the B-29. The only thing that will change is the amount of maximum power until you pass the FTH then you simply won't be able to make that predetermined cruise setting.
This plane and some others are turbosupercharged, and up to FTH there's nothing stopping you from making that max cruise power setting. The engine makes sea level power always. Hence cruise settings vis-a-vis fuel consumption remains the same always.
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I think strictly speaking that's not the case for the B-29. The only thing that will change is the amount of maximum power until you pass the FTH then you simply won't be able to make that predetermined cruise setting.
This plane and some others are turbosupercharged, and up to FTH there's nothing stopping you from making that max cruise power setting. The engine makes sea level power always. Hence cruise settings vis-a-vis fuel consumption remains the same always.
My plane is turbocharged. No turbocharger is 100% effective. There are still differences with altitude, and you still use the tables.
- oldman
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Be that as it may, just because yours does it doesn't mean the B-29s in WW2 did it. I admit I don't know for sure, but I honestly doubt that's the case. It doesn't matter, though. You answered one question I had (as to why you'd want to see this), so thank you.
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Be that as it may, just because yours does it doesn't mean the B-29s in WW2 did it. I admit I don't know for sure, but I honestly doubt that's the case. It doesn't matter, though. You answered one question I had (as to why you'd want to see this), so thank you.
There will be an altitude where you are limited by turbo RPM (around 25000 in the B17) and you'll have to reduce power so as not to exceed max turbo RPM so you wont' always have sea level power.
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There will be an altitude where you are limited by turbo RPM (around 25000 in the B17) and you'll have to reduce power so as not to exceed max turbo RPM so you wont' always have sea level power.
What are the cruise settings for the B-24 at 20, 22.5 and 25k? Will that work here in AH?
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Krusty if you look at some of the p38 stuff out there, the cartoon looking books, there is a section in one of them on managing turbos. Without resistance you can over speed your turbo at higher altitudes. As mentioned in an earlier statement they have limits. The other points is no turbo is going to match sea level horsepower at all altitudes. To use an example from the guys who climb everest. When their O2 levels were Checked they were stunned to find that they were surviving with an o2 rate as low as 30 iirc. Regardless of how much air you cram into the manifold there is just not enough oxygen by ratio to match sea level.
Is there even a moderate level of computing going on with the 29 sights? I think I will set up a custom arena and pho e a friend to start sorting this a bit more. As far as sight visibility goes, having a bit more head play would help a lot.
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What are the cruise settings for the B-24 at 20, 22.5 and 25k? Will that work here in AH?
What aircraft weight? What TAS do you want?
They range from 24.5"/1700RPM (about 215 TAS) to 35.5"/2325RPM (about 285 TAS) at 50,000 gross weight.
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What aircraft weight? What TAS do you want?
They range from 24.5"/1700RPM (about 215 TAS) to 35.5"/2325RPM (about 285 TAS) at 50,000 gross weight.
B-24J: Weight: 65,000 at take off. This is with 8 x 1000 lb bombs and 100% fuel in game. Generally I fly at around the altitudes I asked for. The problem with the E6B is it lists MAX CRUISE at sea level and if I try to use that at 20+, I just slowly fall to the sky until I'm below 20k before she starts to stabilize. It's the same with the B-17G. I wish the E6B would adjust according to altitude...
I figured the person to ask would be one who flies a B-24. Who better to ask? :)
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B-24J: Weight: 65,000 at take off. This is with 8 x 1000 lb bombs and 100% fuel in game. Generally I fly at around the altitudes I asked for. The problem with the E6B is it lists MAX CRUISE at sea level and if I try to use that at 20+, I just slowly fall to the sky until I'm below 20k before she starts to stabilize. It's the same with the B-17G. I wish the E6B would adjust according to altitude...
I figured the person to ask would be one who flies a B-24. Who better to ask? :)
I don't usually fly them in game quite that heavy...75% fuel for me. If I understand right you're losing altitude at the Max Cruise setting? You shouldn't be. The real life B-24 is a booger to get up to speed and keep trimmed at speed. She is very unforgiving of hamfisted elevator use -- you can bleed off 15 knots and never get it back if you don't fly her the way she wants to be flown. (But that could be handy if you're a bit fast on final -- just pulse the stick aft then back to neutral -- there goes 5 knots -- works on the B-17 also)
When you level off leave the power at 100% until you've accelerated to cruise speed, then reduce to your cruise power setting. In the B-17 with 6x1000 or 12x500 and 75% I use 2300/38 inches for cruise without any issues....have done that up to 25K or so.
With the B-24 we flew at 30"/2000 RPM, in the B-17 we used either 28/1800 or 30/2000 if in a hurry. We were low and lighter than a wartime airplane, probably the heaviest I flew the B-24 was around 53-55000 pounds. At that weight we used all the runway taking off at Naples, FL. (http://www.dalefalk.com/Movies/Bombers/7508037_bL2xP3#484784586_TofGn-A-LB)
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:aok
Thanks for the link to the vids, made my night to see those. :salute
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At that weight we used all the runway taking off at Naples, FL. (http://www.dalefalk.com/Movies/Bombers/7508037_bL2xP3#484784586_TofGn-A-LB)
Great video. Did you bend those throttles forward a bit there? Lord knows I would have. Exciting.
- oldman
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I don't usually fly them in game quite that heavy...75% fuel for me. If I understand right you're losing altitude at the Max Cruise setting? You shouldn't be. The real life B-24 is a booger to get up to speed and keep trimmed at speed. She is very unforgiving of hamfisted elevator use -- you can bleed off 15 knots and never get it back if you don't fly her the way she wants to be flown. (But that could be handy if you're a bit fast on final -- just pulse the stick aft then back to neutral -- there goes 5 knots -- works on the B-17 also)
When you level off leave the power at 100% until you've accelerated to cruise speed, then reduce to your cruise power setting. In the B-17 with 6x1000 or 12x500 and 75% I use 2300/38 inches for cruise without any issues....have done that up to 25K or so.
With the B-24 we flew at 30"/2000 RPM, in the B-17 we used either 28/1800 or 30/2000 if in a hurry. We were low and lighter than a wartime airplane, probably the heaviest I flew the B-24 was around 53-55000 pounds. At that weight we used all the runway taking off at Naples, FL. (http://www.dalefalk.com/Movies/Bombers/7508037_bL2xP3#484784586_TofGn-A-LB)
I usually make runs on an enemy capital, which are more than a few sectors away. This is why I always up so heavy. Has worked out in my favor far more often than not, as I suffer from fuel leaks from either attacking fighters and/or flak. Thank you for that information as it will prove very helpful to me. :salute My next question is, since you fly a B-24, how well has the HTC staff done with our B-24? If she was to be updated, what would you think should be looked at?
It looks like you have fun when you up her. :) I wonder, have you guys ever "traded planes"? You fly a B-17 with a B-17 pilot while a B-17 pilot takes your B-24 with you there?
I wonder if it is still considered a Hijack after the topic has been answered to the op's satisfaction?
To bring back to topic (just in case); dirtdart, one way to learn is to up one and only go as high as 17.5-20k. You are guaranteed to get some practice doing that, albeit pricey if you are shot down. IF the AvA staff decides to make the B-29 available right away, you could easily go there and practice, AND you have the bonus of fighting against 262's for the perfect cost of FREE. :) Hmmm.... That's not a bad idea for myself. :D
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My next question is, since you fly a B-24, how well has the HTC staff done with our B-24? If she was to be updated, what would you think should be looked at?
It looks like you have fun when you up her. :) I wonder, have you guys ever "traded planes"? You fly a B-17 with a B-17 pilot while a B-17 pilot takes your B-24 with you there?
HTC has done a pretty good job. The B-17 rolls quicker than it should, the B-24 should be nastier in the stall. ALL the planes are too easy to fly
In that video the guy flying copilot is a B-17 Captain. I often flew as co-pilot on the B-17 and several of our guys were type rated in both aircraft...yeah, we swapped around quite a bit.
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My experience with the superforts guns is that the side mounted blisters should not be underestimated for effective fire zones. You can get fire into zones that the tail can't cover. Practice switching positions without looking and maintaining target visibility. One thing I did was to go to the training arena and get some people to attack me and just practice. It don't cost nothing to practice and those guns are deadly!
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Can you jump to another gunner position while hitting the global fire button?
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Can you jump to another gunner position while hitting the global fire button?
I never thought of that and I think I am going to try it out this evening...great idea.
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I don't usually fly them in game quite that heavy...75% fuel for me. If I understand right you're losing altitude at the Max Cruise setting? You shouldn't be. The real life B-24 is a booger to get up to speed and keep trimmed at speed. She is very unforgiving of hamfisted elevator use -- you can bleed off 15 knots and never get it back if you don't fly her the way she wants to be flown. (But that could be handy if you're a bit fast on final -- just pulse the stick aft then back to neutral -- there goes 5 knots -- works on the B-17 also)
When you level off leave the power at 100% until you've accelerated to cruise speed, then reduce to your cruise power setting. In the B-17 with 6x1000 or 12x500 and 75% I use 2300/38 inches for cruise without any issues....have done that up to 25K or so.
With the B-24 we flew at 30"/2000 RPM, in the B-17 we used either 28/1800 or 30/2000 if in a hurry. We were low and lighter than a wartime airplane, probably the heaviest I flew the B-24 was around 53-55000 pounds. At that weight we used all the runway taking off at Naples, FL. (http://www.dalefalk.com/Movies/Bombers/7508037_bL2xP3#484784586_TofGn-A-LB)
Very cool video! I've never flown in anything but a helicopter and eventually I'm gonna fly in a plane. Looks like a blast to fly something like a B24.