Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ripsnort on February 21, 2000, 09:44:00 AM
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Some of you remember when CK first hit beta, AW was the only competition and was still spendy at the release of CK.
In CK, we had a mixture of pilots, some not so good, some good , some really good, but for the most part, the avg. was , well, average.
In AH, I've seen the quality of pilots (after *pay* day) to be avg. of really good, you don't find green horns in AH like you did in CK beta days...As Pyro (HT?) said, the number of hours we have in on-line sims most likely doubles what actual fighter jocks had..
Just wanted to salute those that have stayed with this game after beta, thanks for the kills, thanks for the fine battles, finger to those that killed me (kidding) and if you come across a guy who really seems like a green-horn, suggest to him that he might find a trainer and get 'some time', so's we don't scare newbies away from the sim, some of you folks are simply "Frightening!"...if I was new to the sim, I'd have changed my shorts a few times by now...Salute all!
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/lrg0004.jpg)
"Opfer mussen gebracht werden"
— Otto Lilienthal
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-21-2000).]
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Yeah... It's weird how high the skill level is. I'm starting to have this "unreal" feeling about online flying... add 3 more years to our flying time and we will be almost "perfect". What kind of fights do we have then ? Überpilots vs Überpilots... thank god we will always have newbies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Chain
Aki Holopainen
aki.holopainen@quicknet.inet.fi
-=HLeLv FennoManiacs=-
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add 3 more years to our flying time and we will be almost "perfect". What kind of fights do we have then ? Überpilots vs Überpilots
Hope it doesnt get to the point where its "whoever is higher wins". AW got like that and it was a pain in the bellybutton if you just wanted a quick fite.
Best thing to happen to AW was FighterTown for those of us who like the furball but dont like to have to climb to 25K to get to one. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
-Ding
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Agree with ya there Dingy, IMO, I think that vehicles (something more than just Flakpanzers) will bring A/C down...today, if you don't have 20K going into an enemy airspace, you can bet on having alt disadavantage.
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Rip1~Warbirds~)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/lrg0004.jpg)
"Opfer mussen gebracht werden"
— Otto Lilienthal
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 02-21-2000).]
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LOL! I thought this thread would be about the newer "Confirmed Kill" that was in beta for a little bit with Eidos. Anyone else that was duped into participating in that closed beta?
It is because of that CK beta that I never reply to "This game that is going to be released will be better because..." threads. So many make promises... so few deliver.
Thanks to HT and crew for standing out from the rest.
AKDejaVu
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Don't diss the CK beta, it had a Beaufighter (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Hopelessly outdated concept by the time it reached beta though...
A request, since I haven't visited the board in a while and am afraid to start a new topic for fear of it being asked a thousand times before - Are vehicles going to be heavily involved in the strat, and going to be entertaining to use? I promise I'm considering this sim for pay, but I need the assurance there'll be some targets for my Typhoon first (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I'm worried that there'll never be anyone using the ground vehicles (if paratroops alone could take a field, for example, I'd consider the even-more-vulnerable trucks unlikely to be used)
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Yup I was in Confirmed Kill Beta, the one edio killed. Personally I liked what was being made. The developers there were responsive to requests and were on the cusp of delivering a good product. My view may be predudiced since I loved the Zero and its HE ammo (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) not to mention the Dauntless.
JimBear
CKTest419
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Uberpilots vs Uberpilots...
I suspect that AW (or what ever the other game was that was mentioned earlier) got boring cause it came down to who ever was highest won. That will nearly always be the case - we all know why (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
That, in itself, is not the problem. The problem is that AW probably (speculating here) had no strategic emphasis. Hence everyone is free to act like uberpilots sitting up at uber altitudes getting the kills. A game with primarily strategic emphasis would dictate pilots having a more strategic role and thus not just hang round up incredibly high free to roam and kill.
So my point is really that if we dont want AH to turn into and uber-alt/uber-pilot fest then we need to ensure it has/keeps a significant strategic emphasis. I think more could be done to develop this - im sure its on its way.
More food for thought.
Cyas
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Overlord Spatula,
1st Airborne Kitchen Utensil Assault Group
"... 10 Me-109s out of the sun..." Aces High, Iron Maiden.
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Hmm Spatula,
AW had "some" stratetic elements too - like taking fields. Though as I remember taking out the factories in the hinterland (heck dictionary says same word as in german (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ) did not have any effect in main arena (as far as I remember, though my brain had some high G stress lately).
As for the alt monkeys: In AW I found it much easier to negate an alt advantage. I was flying T&B mainly and got quite good at avoiding passes from high alt. Here in AH I have much more problems when my opponent starts with only a small alt advantage. Ok, I don't really care about a Spit hanging 7k above me but 2k and I have some serious problems. I don't know, maybe it's because I didn't get the right feeling yet, cause managing your E is much harder here than it was in AW.
BTW, pilot quality is quite a good portion above average here. I don't have as much experience as many of you have, but I seldom meet a comlete give away in the arena...
well, well, just my 2 cents
Kirin out
[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 02-21-2000).]
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I flew in the Eidos CK beta and had a lot of fun with it. Loved the ammo =)
Was kinda disappointed when it canceled.
Got a great new one to fly now though, and I think the planes feel better here =)
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Yup the Ace Factor is in play here in AH...
Most folks fly higher; fight harder; are significantly more savvy in SA; and know how to use the tools they are flying.
Landing is a victory supreme here. My first tour I had 10 kills and 50 sorties before making it home..
Yup. Tuff crowd, allright.
Hang (wears out a 6 view toggle every week)
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hell unless they got 4 k on me or ho i cant get away from dosent seem to dangerous these days (dame glas mitsu is a rook tho he bad bellybutton ) but yea the end of beta got real of the reaal fools, alot more ack (runnin away from me) now mostly
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I hear some people say that in AH alt is king. While altitude is certainly preferred in any engagement it is no guarantee - even in AH. Flying a La-5FN has taught me so (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Things to remember while flying:
[list=1]
- Know where your ack is. Use it to your advantage. In WWII ack brought down a surprising amount of planes, so don't harbor any inclinations about being a twit for using it. And remember, ack is generally located at almost all your depots, city, and factories.
- Energy is not only altitude, but also speed. Of the two, altitude is more permeable, but speed when correctly implemented can be an 'Ace in the Hole'. You see someone at high alt engaging you, don't climb up to them, dive a little and pick up speed. If you can keep deflection high, a safe reversal is almost assured.
- Know when to be aggressive, and when not to be. I've been surprised by how aggression has popped me out of a weak frame of mind when in combat. Sometimes, taking the gamble decisively will change the whole picture.
- Camo had a phrase I liked a lot. It was something about superior pilots never putting themselves into situations where they would have to use their superior skills. This makes a lot of sense. A good pilot is no chivalrous knight (well, maybe when the enemy is in a chute). A good pilot finds the advantage, then holds onto it for dear life.
- Finally, know your aircraft like the back of your hand. I've flown the La-5FN almost exclusively from the day I arrived here, resulting in a deep sense of just what she can do (and cannot do) at any given moment. Stay within the envelope. Also, in knowing your aircraft you inevitably come to know your enemy aircraft as well.
[/list=a]
Just thought I should add this
caveat. I approach this flight sim from the point of view of WWII air combat. For me, flying in AH is not an aerial dueling match, a place to test your skills on a level field. Air combat, for me, is not about seeing who makes sweeter turns, or better hammerheads, or more evasive barrel rolls. For me, air combat is about engaging the enemy from a position of superiority, then maintaining that position as long as needed. If a superior position is not to be had, then a neutral position is the only other option.
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 02-22-2000).]
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Good points Leonid. There is no sense going into fight from a disadvantage. When you spot a dot, you are about 8k yds, or 6 miles away. If you're lower than him, you have plenty of time to head away towards the friendlies and grab some alt. Usually, it is plain stupid to engage in such a situation. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I always try to follow the quote on my sig. My squadmate Nattulv also has a good one, which pretty much sums it all up: "See, decide, attack, reverse. Always above, seldom on the same level, never underneath."
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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Kirin-
I think you have hit upon something intuitively- IMHO the con with only 2K vertical separation is far more of a threat than one with 5K. You can almost always get the higher one to overspeed and take himself out of the fight. It's much harder to do when it's 2K.
When above I try to make the lower guy turn until I have about that 2.0 advantage, then bounce. It's much easier to control the fight that way.
Think about it in reverse; which situation do you generally set up? 5K or 2K? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Yeah, but it's so much fun to turn the tables on those high bastards. I used to take of the La-5 just for that reason: find some dweeb above you, make him make a pass on your six, roll inverted duck down (burn some E) -- dweeb makes pass steeper, gaining even more E on you, roll right-side up, pull up, dweeb overshoots under you, then burns E pulling for the shot. You just look through the crosshairs and pull the trigger.
Then these cannon-hawgs came out and it stopped working...
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Not against me it didn't stop working. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I get nailed like that all the time by wiley La5 and N1k drivers in both of the Hog variants.
If you are getting nailed initial pass, it is just a matter of timing your evasive properly. Also, if the higher con is smart, he won't try to follow at all and will be able to zoom safely up above you again. Even so, a great accelerating plane will whittle down that E advantage after no more than a few passes.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs
Visit Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH news, resources, and training data.
http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/ (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
"MY P-47 is a pretty good ship
And she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip
I was thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip
Always got me through so far
Well they can ship me all over this great big world
But I'll never find nothing like my North End girl
I'm taking her home with me one day, sir
Soon as we win this war"
- Steve Earl
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For sure, I've found the pilot quality to be very high in AH.
In my pony, I can do very well as long as I can maintain an advantage. I find myself "repositioning" more often than ever before. In most cases this is not a Bad Thing(tm), because I try to be smart pilot, and avoid non-advantaged engagements, but it can be very frustrating when the arena numbers are very unblanaced.
BTW, I love that quote.... and it's so true... good pilots should avoid situations as much as possible where they have to demonstrate how good they are!
I used to say "fair fights are for duels and suckers"... and I believe that. After all, the point of ACm is to shoot the other guy in the back! I don't blush about runstanging once I've lost the advantage, or even draggin em to the ack (after all, the other guy was the one who made the decision to follow me in!)
Personally, the high skill level in AH just makes me all the prouder when I manage to win a tough fight, or land after a really good sortie!
Vila
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Hi
It's interesting to see a lot of self-imposed rules people fly by. As varied as the people you meet, thank god. I often see people getting ascribed motives for what they do, as if attacking (or not attacking) this or that can only have one motive. I'm sure the motives for actions can be as varied as the people flying too.
Here's my CURRENT AND EVOLVING view, FWIW.
I'll start by saying that I don't rate(yet) as a pilot - check my stats :-).
I fly a lot according to mood. I moved from Rooks to Knights for instance because I didn't find it satisfying to be vying for targets. I rarely vulch for the same reason. Maybe that will change. Sometimes I find being vulched irritating and so I take off from non-vulched fields and spend a while climbing. When I reach the battle - sometimes we're superior, somtimes half the friendlies are down, there's 4 or 5 red dots ahead, maybe ones above, the rest below. I can run - for me I shrug and say what for? I'm going in and I'll use every ounce of (mediocre) skill to do or die but hey, the exhilaration of lasting 10(!), 20(!!), 30(!!!) secs <grin> or sometimes *much* longer, maybe pinging or downing someone - just the best feeling. Great for SA.
Yesterday there was a vulched field, only one other friendly there. Quiet night, no major strategic battle was on I could see, so I couldn't find a purposeful flight alternative to the challenge of getting off from a vulched field. Sure I got blasted a few times before I even got up to 60mph, I didn't care. The thrill of getting airborne, low speed evasions, nursing the speed, flying as cleanly as I could, using SA to the max. using the terrain, etc etc and getting some shot's in - excellent. In doing this I know I'm giving some people easy kills. Hope it makes 'em feel good I say even if it's just some nice screen candy. Vulching an empty field is no pleasure for 'em I figure.
I'll often waste my E to help a friendly in trouble. I'd rather not, but it's not right or wrong. You may see me flying away when you need help - maybe I've figured I need more height before I return - or my help will be wasted. Not 'cowardice', just the best thing I think to do at the time.
I was the only knight on the other day. Hey have fun: load a Spit with bombs, DT and 50%, fly over nice 'n high, dive bomb a field waaaaaaaaaaay behind the lines (Hey I got an HQ), fly towards the nearest red dots, drop the DT and see how long I can last. (not long was the answer).
For me - entertaining, gave the cons some opposition on a low-numbers night too.
So ... when you see a little dot approaching and it's outnumbered ... maybe not stupid ... maybe just someone having a helluva lot of fun.
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skeet - out
Aces High - Fight Stimulator
[This message has been edited by skeet (edited 02-22-2000).]
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Here's my thoughts on why it's easier to avoid a 5k bounce than a 2k bounce. PATIENCE! and lack of DISAPLINE! Pilots want that kill and they want it bad, and this gets them killed more often than not. If you have a 5k alt advantage over a con there is absolutely NO reason you should lose the fight. Unless the guy is an uber evasive pilot, or he has a good wingman.
When you start your initial dive there are ways to keep from getting too fast. Simply spiral down to him keeping your speed fast but not too fast. I only do this if I am diving on a lone con. I watch his attitude as I go down so I know which way to correct my roll so that he flies through where my bullets will be (deflection shot). I try to have my plane as unloaded as possible (ie. as close to 0 g's as I can) Usualy though there are some G's being pulled due to the high speed rolling turn. Then I try to roll my plane so I can see him in the right or left side of my cockpit window. (the side windows not the front windscrean) At about d5, depending on my aspect angle, I shoot and hopefuly he flies through the stream.
If there are more than 1 bogies near my target, I'll boom down as fast as I can. At about 2k above him I'll zoom back up and reassess the situation, but keeping my speed very high. If someone is making an attack on me I'll try a "rope-a-dope" manuver and hopefuly he'll follow me up. I fly the 190 mainly and it does hammer heads very well, actualy it does almost any vertical manuver well. Once I'm back up w/ alt I simply start the whole proccess over again.
Like Vila said, "I find myself "repositioning" more often than ever before.", this is the most important part of using a very high alt advantage and keeping it. It's realy tough to do though. The endorphin squirt from seeing that con get ripped to shreads is a powerful force to deal with, and ends most of my flights way too early.
That's why it takes patience and disapline. Be frugal with your altitude, it takes alot longer to go up than it does to go down. Don't make that the winning advantage for your prey.
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Udie
Say "you-die", Say "ooodee", JUST SAY YOUR PRAYERS!!!!
902nd Immortal Jaguars