Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Karnak on December 12, 2011, 07:36:07 AM
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Ever since the ENY system was implimented there have been people frustrated by not being able to take the aircraft they wanted because their side was ENY limited due to numbers. There have been many posts over the years venting this frustration. If you can't take your P-51D and are upset because you love the P-51D and Bishops and are only interested in flying the P-51D for the Bishops, well, you're just out of luck. However, if you can't take your P-51D and are upset because you want to damage the Knights or Rooks and feel ENY has taken the tool you need to be effective as a loyal Bishop, there are effective options. I want to discuss these options, these aircraft that are bargains of the ENY system with performance and capabilities exceeding what their ENY rating would lead one to believe they have. These are aircraft with which the average AH player has a chance of doing something useful.
- ENY - Airplane
- 30 - Bf109F-4: What's to like? This is the sweetest handling Bf109 of them all. It will turn with a Spitfire, climbs well, very fast for a 1941 aircraft and has centerline guns. Ten minutes of WEP is luxurious. What's not to like? A single 20mm cannon and two 7.92mm machine guns is a bit light on firepower and the fuel range is short.It has some handling issues over 450mph. It is not significantly useful against ground targets.
- 30 - Bf109G-2: What's to like? Our first 400+mph fighter is faster and climbs better than the Bf109F-4. Again, ten minutes of WEP. You can boost the firepower by taking two additional 20mm cannons in underwing gondolas.What's not to like? It is also armed with a single 20mm cannon and two 7.92mm machine guns unless you take the performance sapping underwing cannons. While the handling is still nice, it is noticably worse than the Bf109F-4's and fuel range is still short.The handling issues over 450mph remain. Ground attack sorties are not a strength.
- 30 - Brewster B239: What's to like? It will out turn every fighter in the game other than the A6M2 and perhaps the A6M3 and has excellent handling across the entire speed spectrum. Unlike the other great turning aircraft the ballistics on its four Browning .50s are fantastic. Originally being a naval aircraft it has good fuel range. What's not to like? It is one of the slowest fighters in the game if it is not the absolute slowest fighter. Some may find the firepower provided by four .50s is a bit light. It has no utility as a strike aircraft. Did I mention that it is slow?
- 30 - Mosquito Mk VI: (I will try to limit my bias) What's to like? It is a fighter that can do 357mph on the deck, carry 2000lbs of bombs, will turn and climb with a P-51D at lower altitudes, is long ranged and, with four centerline Hispano Mk II cannons, has the best air-to-air gun package in the game. It is a very tough aircraft that accelerates in a dive like few other aircraft. It handles well across the speed spectrum until... What's not to like? At speeds above about 480mph it will lose control surfaces if maneuvering is attempted. Without WEP that very nice 357mph becomes a mediocre 321mph with a corresponding loss of climb rate. The rocket rails cost 12mph off the top speed after the rockets are gone. It is a very large target.
- 25 - Bf109G-14: What's to like? Excellent speed and climb capability on WEP. Good armaments with either a 20mm cannon or 30mm cannon and two 13mm machine guns along with the option for two underwing 20mm cannons. Cockpit visibility is improved over earlier Bf109s and it has ten minutes of WEP. What's not to like? Handling is noticeably deteriorated over earlier Bf109s and without WEP its engine power is exactly the same as a Bf109G-6 without WEP. Ground attack and fuel range continues to be weaknesses.
- 25 - C.205: What's to like? A good, all round fighter with nice speed, climb and handling. Good firepower with two 12.7mm machine guns and two 20mm cannons with lots of ammunition for the cannons. What's not to like? The turning circle is larger that average and the turn rate is poor. Fuel range is short and it cannot carry bombs or rockets.
- 25 - F4U-1: What's to like? It is fast, tough and has great roll rate and, with its flaps, turning capability. Six .50s with great ballistics can kill anything in short order. Fuel range is decent, it can carry a 1000lb bomb and can fly off of carriers. What's not to like? The climb rate is poor and, unlike later F4Us, it carries only a single bomb.
- 25 - Fw190A-5: What's to like? A fast, tough fighter with a fantastic roll rate and good cockpit visibility. Firepower is good with two MG151/20 20mm cannons each with 250 rounds and two 7.92mm machine guns. Climb is good and that nice German 10 minute WEP makes another appearance. What's not to like? While it is the best turning Fw190 it is still a very poor turning fighter. The option to take two additional 20mm cannons is mostly wasted by their being MG/FF cannons with bad balistics. Fuel range is relatively short.
- 25 - Fw190F-8: What's to like? A fast, tough strike-fighter with a fantastic roll rate and good cockpit visibility. Carrying a 500kg bomb and either four 50kg bombs or twelve of the best rockets in the game make this a great fighter to use against GVs. Two MG151/20s and two 13mm machine guns are quite usable against aircraft plus the normal German perk of ten minutes of WEP. What's not to like? It shares the Fw190 series disdain for turning and has short fuel endurance.
- 25 - La5FN: What's to like? A fast, capable fighter armed with two good ShVAK 20mm cannons with 200 rounds each. Climb, turn and roll rate are all good and the cockpit visibility is great. What's not to like? Fuel range is short and it has no real potential against ground targets.
- 25 - P-47D-25: What's to like? A tough fighter with eight Browning .50s providing good firepower and a bubble canopy for good cockpit visibility. It can carry two 1000lb and one 500lb bomb along with six 4.5" rockets. What's not to like? Performance at AH combat altitudes is not particularly good. The 4.5" rockets are the weakest in the game and the tube launching system is very draggy, even after firing the rockets.
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- ENY - Airplane
- 23 - Yak-9U: What's to like? A fast, nimble fighter with fantastic cockpit visibility. Because it has no WEP there is no concern of a performance drop during a fight. What's not to like? A single ShVAK 20mm cannon with 120 rounds and two 12.7mm machine guns requires good aim and fire discipline to see much success. The lack of WEP means you lack a power boost when you need it. Fuel range is very short and it has no potential to speak of as a strike aircraft.
- 20 - A6M5b: What's to like? A great turning, long ranged fighter with good firepower, good visibility and the ability to operate off of carriers. What's not to like? Slow, fragile and flammable. Bomb load is light limiting usefulness as a strike aircraft.
- 20 - B-17G: What's to like? Tough bomber with great all around defensive fire coverage, even underneath itself. Very tough bomber. What's not to like? 6,000lbs of bombs per bomber is very much on the light side for a heavy bomber. It is relatively slow to climb and has a low top speed.
- 20 - B-24J: What's to like? A bomber with great, all around defensive fire coverage, including below itself. Decent bomb load of 8,000lbs per bomber. What's not to like? It catches on fire easily. Climb performance is poor and top speed is not very good.
- 20 - B-26B: What's to like? A tough medium bomber with great defensive fire coverage and decent speed. What's not to like? The bomb load of 4,000lbs per bomber is on the light side.
- 20 - Bf109K-4: What's to like? Fantastic speed and climb rate combined with good cockpit visibility and good firepower. The climb rate is second to nothing short of the Me163 rocket fighter and only matched by the perked Spitfire Mk XIV. Ten minutes of WEP is just icing on the cake. What's not to like? Handling is rough due to the massive power of the engine in such a small fighter. High speed handling and fuel range are poor. While the 30mm cannon offers good firepower, the ballistics are poor and it only has 65 rounds.
- 20 - Il2 Type 3: What's to like? A very tough attack aircraft with great cannons and good vulnerability. The bomb load is useful against ground vehicles, this aircraft's natural prey, as well. What's not to like? It is very slow, the cockpit visibility is very poor and it is short ranged. The rockets are weak.
- 20 - Ki-84-I-Ko: What's to like? One of the best dogfighters in AH with decent speed, firepower and good roll rate, cockpit visibility and fuel range. Handling is excellent below 400mph and the fowler flaps dramatically improve turning below 169mph. Two 250kg bombs are useful as a strike aircraft. This fighter is very close to the Spitfire Mk XVI in capability. WEP duration is only 90 seconds, but the cooldown time is only 45 seconds compared to a Spitfire or P-51's 5 minutes of WEP and 10 minute cooldown. What's not to like? Combat Trim makes high speed maneuverability poor and pilot wounds seem unusually common. Using control surfaces at speeds over 475mph or so can result in their loss.
- 20 - P-38J: What's to like? A tough fighter with no torque and very good nose mounted firepower. Due to the contra-rotating propellers it handles vertical maneuvers very well. The fowler flaps greatly improve its turning capability. Two 1000lb bombs and six 4.5" rockets are carried easily. What's not to like? It can compress at high speeds. Pilot wounds seem more common than normal and it is a large target.The 4.5" rockets use tube launchers that are very draggy even after being fired.
- 20 - P-47D-40: What's to like? Eight .50s, two 1000lb bombs, one 500lb bomb and ten 5" rockets make this probably the hardest hitting fighter-bomber on this list, though the P-38L and Mosquito Mk VI will get to the target faster. The cockpit visibility is good and the fighter is tough. What's not to like? This fighter does not turn or climb well.
- 20 - P-51B: What's to like? A fast , long ranged fighter with good visibility and smooth handling across a wide speed spectrum. Handling is very similar to the P-51D, but slightly slower at low altitude and slightly faster at high altitude.What's not to like? Four .50s is a little light on firepower for a fighter that will mostly be BnZing. The turning ability is poor.
- 20 - Spitfire Mk IX: What's to like? An agile fighter with good cockpit visibility and good firepower. Climb rate is good and performance at high altitude is nice. The only Spitfire to make the list, it has the great Spitfire handling players both love and hate.What's not to like? It is slow, only 320mph at sea level, at low altitudes, relatively fragile and short ranged. Fuel endurance is short.
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This is an outstanding write-up... :salute
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good thread
I find I never really have to deal with ENY at the times I play now though...it seemed to be more of an issue when we had two LW arenas
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Top notch info Karnak. Thanks for the time it took to compile and post. Best thread of 2011 IMHO. Here's hoping most take the time to read and digest it.
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Whoops nice one!
One thing: the C205 has a very large turn radius (and a poor turn rate) even with flaps. Half-way between the K-4 and the 190 A-8. Also the stall speed is very high, making the scissors overshoot very difficult. Your Mossie can clearly outmaneuver it.
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I will add on a list of aircraft that I didn't include, but almost did, later. They are the Bf109G-6, FM2, Ki-61-I-Tei, Ki-67, P-39Q and P-40N.
Whoops nice one!
One thing: the C205 has a very large turn radius (and a poor turn rate) even with flaps. Half-way between the K-4 and the 190 A-8. Also the stall speed is very high, making the scissors overshoot very difficult. Your Mossie can clearly outmaneuver it.
Thank you. I changed the C.205's note.
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Great write up, typical Karnak stuff :aok
But as you already have 2 bombers in it, I'd suggest adding the 25 ENY Ki-67, which does have a few very good points despite a light bombload and hasn't as much "victim" written on it as Boston, G4M or B-25c
Ah, you mentioned the 67 while I wrote this :rock
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:aok :airplane:
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I will add on a list of aircraft that I didn't include, but almost did, later. They are the Bf109G-6, FM2, Ki-61-I-Tei, Ki-67, P-39Q and P-40N.
Original list was excellent, these additions will make it better.
- oldman
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I like the ki-61 for some applications and was surprised to not see it on the original list.
I will add on a list of aircraft that I didn't include, but almost did, later. They are the Bf109G-6, FM2, Ki-61-I-Tei, Ki-67, P-39Q and P-40N.
Thank you. I changed the C.205's note.
:aok
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Excellent writeup!
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The day a Brewster out-turns an A6M5b is yet to come. The 5b turns way better than a 3.
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The day a Brewster out-turns an A6M5b is yet to come. The 5b turns way better than a 3.
The A6M5 may out turn the A6M3, I haven't tested those against each other. The B239 slightly out turns the A6M5b though. I did test those when the B239 was added. The A6M5b is much faster and does much better in the vertical than the B239 does.
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The A6M3 turns a bit (about 5-6%) better than the 5b. Do a synthetic test, you will see. Also its easyer to do the vertical hammerhead-style reverse in the 3 due to its better roll rate.
The Brewster... its instanteous turn rate is excelent, just like an A6M3, has smoother handling than the zeeks with flaps, but its vertical performance is limited, also the turn rate is dropping in a sustained situation.
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karnak must truly hate the havoc,but thats to be expected
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karnak must truly hate the havoc,but thats to be expected
I didn't see it in that ENY range. Did I miss it? I certainly would have included it. It is on my table of fighter-bombers I have been performance checking.
(I have nothing against the A-20G and have used it myself. What I object to are the efforts to get 20mm cannon on it so it will be a better fighter, but relagating the historically most significant version with .50 cals to hangar queen status. The quad 20mm as a perk gun package would make sense to me.)
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I like seeing recognition for the Gale (Ki84). It does most things well except dive and recover from same. I did not understand why the ENY for it was upped from 15 to 20 a while back, but I will take it. It has good speed and accelerates well. Just don't take it up past 15k.
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I also like the F4F Wild Cat. It's more maneuverable than expected, especially with rudder, and packs a decent wallop with 6 .50 cal machine guns. It's a tough little bird that can be flown off land bases or a carrier. The down side is it's very slow unless you're in a dive.
The other option would be the 109E. Unlike later 109's this bird has 2 wing mounted cannons which can do some heavy damage at close range. It also has 2 cowl mounted 7.9 machine guns. A pretty good turner but not much on speed. Also has limited cannon rounds.
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The other option would be the 109E. Unlike later 109's this bird has 2 wing mounted cannons which can do some heavy damage at close range. It also has 2 cowl mounted 7.9 machine guns. A pretty good turner but not much on speed. Also has limited cannon rounds.
The 109E is absolutely worthless. While the instanteous turn rate may be OK, but runs out from speed very quickly then it becames a total brick. The roll rate is horrible, especially at low speeds, easy to fall into a bad flat spin when attempting a reversal (simply cant roll "over" on the top). To top this calavaria, this plane cant do a proper snaproll like the later 109s can. The vertical maneuvering is more limited than in a Stuka...
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I wouldn't say absolutely worthless. It has limited use. It can be quite fun. It can be quite lethal. However, it's a little like flying a zeke in late-war, it can out turn most of what it runs into but it lacks power and climb and ammo count, etc. I've taken on P-51s in 1v1 and 1v2 (2 ponies) before, but as soon as the situation looks ugly you're toast. No hordes, no major fights unless you have some friends nearby (and I mean friends/squaddies, not just random teammates).
So I wouldn't say worthless. I don't want to make it seem more impressive than it should be, so I won't praise it, but I think it has use.
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The Emil is awesome!
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Flying the early war planes like the Wildcat and 109E against late war fighters is fun and challenging, especially when you land some kills.
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I think I can see why planes like the 109E, and F4F-4 weren't on the list, and it's probably the same reason why my beloved P-38G wasn't on there. ENY is never going to get bad enough to force a player to choose between the 109F/G2 or the 109E and the former are much more capable.
Not saying they can't be fun, I'm after all a avid fan of the P-38G and P-39D. :)
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I've been flying the 109F the most lately and it's been good fun. It's easy to fly but it doesn't have the punch to take a guy out quickly. That's important in a furball. The 38G most definitely should have made the list. It packs a punch in every catagory. But the G takes a hit in the wep and the fact that for most,including myself, it's too big and hard to fly to be successful in right away.
And Cobia, if everyone flew a A20 like you it'd be up there. :)
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Why is my 38G not on this list?
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:O :aok :rock :joystick: :old:/D-40.....oh yeah! Ship kiiler. 1 D-40 takes out a cruiser...lots-o-perkies.
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Why is my 38G not on this list?
Haha there are many possible answers. Here is one:
Its a big target, slow, cant turn, roll, dive or climb well (can hang on the prop tho), needs a real skilled pilot to make her dance. So, the ones trained on spitfireXVIs possibly wont find any success flying your bird ;)
Just see whos flying it: Pawz, Soulyss, Twinboom, Strokes, You, really noone else.
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What a crock. Flew the other night when both rooks and nits had 40+ player advantage over bish and never did eny go above 5.
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The A6M3, Bf109G-6, FM2, Ki-61-I-Tei, Ki-67, P-38G, P-39Q, P-40N, Spitfire Mk Vb and Yak-9T did not make the list, though all of them nearly did, as I judged them a little to lacking in performance for the average Aces High player to have a good enough chance of success in them. By no means am I saying they are not fun, capable fighters.
If the A-20G's ENY is 20 or higher it was my oversight and it should absolutely be on the list.
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I;m a big fan of the wildcat, not the FM2, but the f4f.
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Haha there are many possible answers. Here is one:
Its a big target, slow, cant turn, roll, dive or climb well
Your comments about the P-38G (or any of the other P-38s) clearly show that you really don't know what the Lightning is capable of. Trying flying it sometime before you make comments about a plane you very little about.
The only real negatives of the P-38G is the lack of WEP and the glass armor that obstructs the forward view.
ack-ack
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When I get to play, it is usually in the 109F. I do also like the f4f-4 as well, but favor the 109. I am not that good, and it suits my lack of skill quite well. I like the list too, though I rarely get in anything but the high ENY rides. As bad as I am, I would rather not provide a lot of free perks by taking the uber rides. :)
Bob
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Haha, i have never been flying the 38, youre right. But was flying against it many times, so i can compare.
In a co-energy fight i never ever had any problems with any Lighnings whoever was flying it. Was dueling many times against Pawz, and i almost always got him in a G-6 vs his P-38 fight. While the turn rates were nearly simmilar, i could use the snaprolls to take advantage, also could fly slower in the rolling scissors and overshoot him. This does not mean im better than him. When i was trying his ride, he got me in two turns every single time! Same with DimMak/KillnU, even tho we fought only two times, the results were the same. I think if anyone, he knows how to fly.
Those men earned all my respect, making that fat fighter dance like that.
Couse flying a plane is a little bit more than coming with alt and play a rope-a-dope game. IMO
:salute
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As bad as I am, I would rather not provide a lot of free perks by taking the uber rides. :)
Bob
I love meeting P-51Ds when in the Mossie for this reason.
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Just see whos flying it: Pawz, Soulyss, Twinboom, Strokes, You, really noone else.
I hate to break it to ya Debrody, but including my name on an otherwise fine list of skilled cartoon pilots is just going to hurt your argument. :)
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I hate to break it to ya Debrody, but including my name on an otherwise fine list of skilled cartoon pilots is just going to hurt your argument. :)
ooopppps....
:lol