Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sundowner on December 26, 2011, 10:18:04 AM
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The rest of the comments at the Best Buy site are hilarious!
Regards,
Sun
Thanks to Slashdot.org:
First time accepted submitter Forthan Red writes
"It may be a pricing bot run amok, or a ridiculously over-inflated sense of worth, but Best Buy has been offering an HDMI cable for a whopping $1,095.99 (currently sold out!). While Best Buy seems to be oblivious to the absurdity of this price for a digital cable, those posting customer reviews are not. Enjoy the mockery!"
One of my favorites is: "saved a ton of money on a new TV on black Friday and decided to use the extra cash to get the best cable available. At a whopping 3.3 feet in length, this cable is no joke. When all my friends come over to watch football, they always say 'WOW what kind of HDMI cable do you have?' I proudly tell them about my audioquest diamond and its advanced features such as its Dark Gray/Black finish. It is a great conversation piece! Not to mention it fits into my dvd player and tv perfectly."
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/AudioQuest+-+Diamond+3.3%27+High-Speed+HDMI+Cable+-+Dark+Gray/Black/2383276.p;jsessionid=310CCC6FDFA4F4B48027114FF363F3FC.bbolsp-app04-32?id=1218324437192&skuId=2383276#BVRRWidgetID
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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looked at different websites and that is the actual cost of it :rofl
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When you click on suggested accessories it directs you to a 12'HDMI cable costing 24.99 :rofl
WTG BB :aok
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Cardas, Audioquest do make some decent cables, but the $500+ cables are a gimmick.
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Cardas, Audioquest do make some decent cables, but the $500+ cables are a gimmick.
So the $499 cables are legit?
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So the $499 cables are legit?
and the $499.99 cables too!
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So the $499 cables are legit?
For analog yeah but for the HDMI ya gotta get the $1,095.99 cable.......... :rolleyes:
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apparently the some people think they need a pure silver cable... Wow
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That's nothing, I'm saving up for these $43000 audio cables <g>
(http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2007/09/transparent_opus_cables.jpg)
from here
http://transparentcable.com/products/show_product.php?catID=1&recID=24&modCAT=1
Steely
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Transparent makes some excellent audio cables, I have some in my system here (not those specifically) and they DO influence and change the sound. It's all a matter of where are the bottlenecks in your system and what that system is ultimately capable of.
Am I going to run out and spend $1000 on an audio cable? Nope, absolutely not, but if I were looking to spend $30,000 on a pair of speakers then maybe I would. The cabling is a part of the signal path from source to speaker/display and it does matter just like any other link in the chain. It's all a matter of cost vs. results.
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Transparent makes some excellent audio cables, I have some in my system here (not those specifically) and they DO influence and change the sound. It's all a matter of where are the bottlenecks in your system and what that system is ultimately capable of.
Am I going to run out and spend $1000 on an audio cable? Nope, absolutely not, but if I were looking to spend $30,000 on a pair of speakers then maybe I would. The cabling is a part of the signal path from source to speaker/display and it does matter just like any other link in the chain. It's all a matter of cost vs. results.
:rofl
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Seems to me that it makes less sense to believe that the cable has no impact on the end result than to expect it will.
I've done A/B comparisons on audio systems and switching the cables absolutely has an influence on the final sound that you hear.
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Seems to me that it makes less sense to believe that the cable has no impact on the end result than to expect it will.
I've done A/B comparisons on audio systems and switching the cables absolutely has an influence on the final sound that you hear.
Did you do it blind? Did you give it the Pepsi Challenge? Expensive cables are marketed directly to idiots. Just because a difference can be measured with a meter, it doesn't mean the difference can be noticed by a human. There's a big reason that the markup on any computer or a/v cable is through the roof.
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This cable is a great value. Seems to work at least as well as the $5 cables you can order over the internet. Hope to see an upgraded version in sterling rather than silver plate.
Highly recommended!
:rofl
My house recently went into forclosure and i needed something to cheer me up. I walked into the nearest best buy with the intention of just browsing and not purchasing anything. I was approached by a beautiful sales woman who said i looked very depressed and needed an HDMI cable in my life. She showed me the most expensive one they had. I explained to her my situation and she informed me there really was no point in paying my house since i was gonna lose it anyways. This made sence to me and i skipped my house payment and bought the cable.
As i waited at the bus stop i couldn't wait to tell all my friends. I found the nearest pay phone and called my friends collect. They were even more excited than me! The next day i was evicted from my house but was invited to stay over my friends for the weekend because they wanted to use the cable to watch sports games. "Wow the picture quality is simply amazing" said my friend. "You can stay here as long you want as long as we keep using this great cable of yours". I now have a permanent home without an expensive mortgage payment! I'm just thankful i found this cable! I don't know where i would be without it!
What's great about it: Eliminates mortgage payment
What's not so great: Only one color
:rofl :lol :aok
For the win!:
I must confess, I originally just bought this cable for the bragging rights. At the next family barbecue I was going to one-up my S.O.B. brother-in-law with my $1100 HDMI cable, because I knew he couldn't match it with his joke of a salary.
Imagine my surprise when this cable actually exceeded what I had expected. You may have read the myths that all HDMI cables are built equally, but I'm sure you will reconsider your position when you hear that this cable actually brought me to the magical land of Narnia. True story!
I put on The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe to keep my brats quiet while I installed this bad boy and tinkered with the AV setup in my living room. I was instantly mesmerized by the brilliant image quality. It felt at first as if the film was enveloping me, but it wasn't long before I realized that it had in fact enveloped me! True story!
Definitely worth experiencing, though I recommend choosing a destination other than Narnia. Sure, they call it "The Magical Land of...", but it equates to calling Paris the "City of Love", when in fact it's the "City of arrogant wine and cheese snobs with no tolerance for tourists". I had swords pulled on me on dozens of occasions, the food was terrible, and it was awfully cold (perhaps better in summer?). Also, the Lion wasn't terribly hospitable, and the Ice Queen took her name too literally (I even offered money!).
The cable gets a perfect score, but Narnia leaves much to be desired.
I think I'll try entering Beauty and the Beast next. Well, just Beauty, if you know what I mean.
What's great about it: Opens a portal to fantasy lands - True story!
What's not so great: This site won't let me rate it 8 out of 5.
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Forgive my uninformed opinion, but I was under the impression that digital signals do not have "better" ones and zeroes when played through an expensive cable. The signal is either transferred or it isn't. Your picture/sound quality is determined by your hardware and the source quality, no?
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Did you do it blind? Did you give it the Pepsi Challenge? Expensive cables are marketed directly to idiots. Just because a difference can be measured with a meter, it doesn't mean the difference can be noticed by a human. There's a big reason that the markup on any computer or a/v cable is through the roof.
As I recall it was a blind A/B done in our office showroom. Every part of the system has a hand in the final output, I'll use audio because that's what I'm more familiar with, also being somewhat colorblind makes it harder for me to evaluate video.
If you take a 2 channel stereo system and swap out the source, say a CD player, or turntable you will get a different sound, swap out the receiver or amplifier and you will also get a different sound just like changing the speakers all the individual components add up to an end result. The signal going from stage to stage in the system has to get there along interconnects and other cabling, the signal is subject to all kinds of things that can distort or impede the original signal. If that signal get's altered the end result is going to be different, it is after all the sound, music, etc. that you want to hear that's come off the original source. A good cable is going to make help make sure that the original information get's there w/ as little interference and in the right order.
Now it's all relative, are you going to hear a difference listening to music through the crappy speakers on a TV? No, probably not, there's also a point of diminishing returns where the amount of bang you get for your buck will be less and less. To use the original example, I doubt any TV you can get at Bestbuy is going to really be worth spending that kind of money on a HDMI cable. Nor would I ever probably spend that kind of money on a cable, I don't have the means to afford the type of system that would actually make it worthwhile, but if you have a decent system, then yes cabling can make a difference, absolutely.
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Forgive my uninformed opinion, but I was under the impression that digital signals do not have "better" ones and zeroes when played through an expensive cable. The signal is either transferred or it isn't. Your picture/sound quality is determined by your hardware and the source quality, no?
Yes and no, there's a cable manufacturer that has some pretty good articles on HDMI and the issues associated with it.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-cables.htm?hdmiinfo (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-cables.htm?hdmiinfo)
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:rofl :rofl they pulled ALL of the reviews. Now it has a "Be the first to review this product" under it.
:cheers: Oz
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:rofl :rofl they pulled ALL of the reviews. Now it has a "Be the first to review this product" under it.
:cheers: Oz
I still see reviews as old as April. This is one of my favorite lines:
Even though I just had a small 20-inch vacuum tube television and VCR-laserdisc combo player, my favorites immediately were up-converted to High Definition.
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I still see reviews as old as April. This is one of my favorite lines:Even though I just had a small 20-inch vacuum tube television and VCR-laserdisc combo player, my favorites immediately were up-converted to High Definition.
Marketed directly towards idiots.
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Marketed directly towards idiots.
Bose is the identical thing.
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Bose is the identical thing.
Bose has my favorite slogan.
"If you can't hear the high's and can't hear the low's, it might be a Bose".
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I was looking at the over 1000 dollar Audigy "Vodka" HDMI
:cheers: Oz
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I bought a HDMI hi speed cable (6 ft) at Fry's for $6.95.
Picture looks great!
:aok
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Nobody will ever "hear the difference" between cables that carry digital data.
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Bose has my favorite slogan.
"If you can't hear the high's and can't hear the low's, it might be a Bose".
Not directing this at you specifically. but rather more of a general statement
For as much as I've heard people knock Bose for various reasons. When I've asked those who typically do. Ive yet to find someone who as actually bothered to spend any time listening to them themselves. But rather go by what other people have said.
My own personal experience with them has been that it depends on what item your listening to and how they are set up in a room.
Which is pretty much on par with any other brand system I've listened to.
I've heard very few Bose products (their loudspeakers in particular) that perform nearly as poorly as what folks have claimed. Most of the time (but not all) they sound nothing short of fantastic. And most of the time when they didnt was due more to either poor placement within a room. Or cr@ppy settings the owner was using for their particular taste.
I've heard the exact same model systems sound completely different in different homes. But those that were properly set up I havent heard any of the problems widely described.
Which again is about on par with just about any other system regardless of brand I've heard.
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Agree with drediock on Bose... Some of the earlier Bose systems were awful and even the newer ones have flaws that a "real" audiophile will be able to easily pick out, but the sound is pretty good for most uses. The primary gripe I have with Bose is that the systems are pretty expensive compared to a DIY setup. The problem with DIY setups is that not only does the buyer have to figure out what components will be "matched" in their house/room/wherever, they also will probably need to dig into the equalizer to get everything balanced. I know I probably spent 2 months researching my first home theater speakers, and then spent another month tweaking the installation and equalizer before I was happy with how they sounded. Yea I paid 2/3 of what I would have spent on a Bose system that would give me the same results, but it took 3 months of fiddling to get there.
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Not directing this at you specifically. but rather more of a general statement
For as much as I've heard people knock Bose for various reasons. When I've asked those who typically do. Ive yet to find someone who as actually bothered to spend any time listening to them themselves. But rather go by what other people have said.
My own personal experience with them has been that it depends on what item your listening to and how they are set up in a room.
Which is pretty much on par with any other brand system I've listened to.
I've heard very few Bose products (their loudspeakers in particular) that perform nearly as poorly as what folks have claimed. Most of the time (but not all) they sound nothing short of fantastic. And most of the time when they didnt was due more to either poor placement within a room. Or cr@ppy settings the owner was using for their particular taste.
I've heard the exact same model systems sound completely different in different homes. But those that were properly set up I havent heard any of the problems widely described.
Which again is about on par with just about any other system regardless of brand I've heard.
Bose uses inferior products and upsells at almost 10-15x of what they are worth. They cannot advertise ANY product with a "Subwoofer" because of tiny/inferior driver sizes. Bose does only one thing well, marketing. Their Headphones are inferior to any line of comparable Shure's for starters. Sennheisers/AKG/Grado's kick their butts all around the room as well.
Definitive Technology & SVS will blow them out of the water and leave money in the bank in comparison to their Acoustimass systems. Those are just two Brands that will accomplish that feat.
Every Bose speaker product has a gap in the Frequency Response and this is why they will not/do not publish their data. There are many professional "breakdowns" that are extremely reliable, non-biased and to the point on the internet. They all say the sames things that PT Barnum said more than a hundred years ago.
Rooms have nothing to do with an inferior product. If you think I haven't listened to Bose, you'd be sadly mistaken. I have personally gotten 20+ friends/people out of that crap and into something superior and easier on the wallet.
If I could design Home Theaters for a living, I would do it.
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when we were selling loudspeakers we would often have Bose systems set up side by side so people could hear the difference. NEVER have I heard a Bose system compete one on one like that. They are marketed well, period. I had a guy who had bought a wave radio, more to the point, he bought into their claims that it sounded as good as a full size system. I let him bring it in and it fell flat on it's face when compared to even the cheapest, smallest studio reference speakers we had. He returned it, after a nightmare of an experience with their cutomer service people.
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Rooms have nothing to do with an inferior product. If you think I haven't listened to Bose, you'd be sadly mistaken. I have personally gotten 20+ friends/people out of that crap and into something superior and easier on the wallet.
Completely dissagree. Improper placement of speakers in a room can have a dramatic difference in how well a system sounds good product or inferior.
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when we were selling loudspeakers we would often have Bose systems set up side by side so people could hear the difference. NEVER have I heard a Bose system compete one on one like that. They are marketed well, period. I had a guy who had bought a wave radio, more to the point, he bought into their claims that it sounded as good as a full size system. I let him bring it in and it fell flat on it's face when compared to even the cheapest, smallest studio reference speakers we had. He returned it, after a nightmare of an experience with their cutomer service people.
I'll agree on the Wave. It doesnt sound as good as a full sized system. Dont know if I'd go so far as to say as good as the cheapest. That would depend on what the cheapest ones you had were. I know I've heard better then the wave from even cheaper setups. But I also know I've heard alot worse from comparably priced systems too.
And not saying thats what you do/did. but I also know stores have a knack for intentionally setting up systems to sound better then others to try and push an item.
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Completely dissagree. Improper placement of speakers in a room can have a dramatic difference in how well a system sounds good product or inferior.
You missed my point. My point is that Bose are crap to begin with, it doesn't matter where you put them. The bass sucks because of the 6 1/2" drivers. That statement was ONLY FOR BOSE, so you would be correct with any other speaker manufacturer.
But with Bose, it does not matter.
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You missed my point. My point is that Bose are crap to begin with, it doesn't matter where you put them. The bass sucks because of the 6 1/2" drivers. That statement was ONLY FOR BOSE, so you would be correct with any other speaker manufacturer.
But with Bose, it does not matter.
My ears dont agree. But then again I dont listen to much "thumpa thumpa thumpa" music
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My ears dont agree. But then again I dont listen to much "thumpa thumpa thumpa" music
I don't either. Bass is present in the majority of Recorded Music. Bose sucks at any close accurate reproduction of it. Factually speaking, since Bose has a frequency range gap from 202Hz to 280Hz, their Bass is atrocious. If you think that doesn't account for much, don't bother replying.
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If someones a millionaire they spend 1/1000 of their net worth on the cable. Say for me I got a couple grand in the bank 1/1000 of my net worth is $2 that would be the comparison from a millionaire buying the 1000 dollar cable to someone like myself. It's still crazy to buy a cable that expensive when you can get it for $5 :confused:
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I don't either. Bass is present in the majority of Recorded Music. Bose sucks at any close accurate reproduction of it. Factually speaking, since Bose has a frequency range gap from 202Hz to 280Hz, their Bass is atrocious. If you think that doesn't account for much, don't bother replying.
Nope.
But I will say the more you type. The more you sound like your going by what you've read. Then what you've actually heard.
Is Bose over priced for the quality of sound it produces. Yea, I'll agree with that. You can get comparable or better sound quality for the same price or less.
But I wont agree they they produce a completely crappy quality sound. Nor would I agree their bass sounds all that atrocious. And most certainly not to The extent that the Bose haters make.
And it is my understandign that that frequency gap isnt all that uncommon particularly in sat systems. which I am assuming you are referring to.
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Nope.
But I will say the more you type. The more you sound like your going by what you've read. Then what you've actually heard.
Is Bose over priced for the quality of sound it produces. Yea, I'll agree with that. You can get comparable or better sound quality for the same price or less.
But I wont agree they they produce a completely crappy quality sound. Nor would I agree their bass sounds all that atrocious. And most certainly not to The extent that the Bose haters make.
And it is my understandign that that frequency gap isnt all that uncommon particularly in sat systems. which I am assuming you are referring to.
I've heard them plenty of times and they are horrible, from the 901's, on down to the Acoustimass Series. Bose is the only system with this gap (Satellite Systems do not compare to the inferior Acoustimass), because they cannot/do not use a Subwoofer. They use cheap, $5 5.5" drivers (5.5" drivers are a Mid-Range driver, not even 3 of them should be used for "Bass"), so the Bass produced is INFERIOR to even an 8" Subwoofer which is weak as it is for even a 1000 sq. ft. room. Bose is the only manufacturer that will not post their specifications on any document, which is a piss poor business practice in the field. They know what is the risk, but don't care because they prey on the uninformed.
"Haters". LMFAO. That explains it now. The mere fact they rely on "reflected sound", is the fact they KNOW the Frequency Gap exists and try to "mask it". But keep drinking from that sales pitcher.
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I've heard them plenty of times and they are horrible, from the 901's, on down to the Acoustimass Series. Bose is the only system with this gap (Satellite Systems do not compare to the inferior Acoustimass), because they cannot/do not use a Subwoofer. They use cheap, $5 5.5" drivers (5.5" drivers are a Mid-Range driver, not even 3 of them should be used for "Bass"), so the Bass produced is INFERIOR to even an 8" Subwoofer which is weak as it is for even a 1000 sq. ft. room. Bose is the only manufacturer that will not post their specifications on any document, which is a piss poor business practice in the field. They know what is the risk, but don't care because they prey on the uninformed.
"Haters". LMFAO. That explains it now. The mere fact they rely on "reflected sound", is the fact they KNOW the Frequency Gap exists and try to "mask it". But keep drinking from that sales pitcher.
Sorry but Im not believing your ears. Or the times no matter how plenty you claim.
Kinda reminds me of the old Ford Vs Chevy and vise verse arguments I used to see back in the day. Or most this vs that arguments for that matter. One side always hates the other without ever having driven or owning one. They hate the company or product for the sake of hating the company or product. Chimes of "anything but" are pretty common in those types of debates. Which is about where we are at now.
Im not drinking from any sales pitcher. The only Bose I own or have ever owned are nearly 40 years old and sitting in my attic and currently not hooked up to anything. But I do get to hear all sorts of sound systems every week of every year simply because of the sheer number of different houses I am in. I've heard high end systems that sounded both great or crappy from house to house and Bose systems that have sounded both great and crappy. So Im going by actual real world situations rather then simply a sound room in a store where things can be set up to sound pretty much any way you want them to sound based on what your trying to sell that week.
I've pretty much conceded that there are better systems out there that can be had for as much or less. I'll even concede that Bose sells on the sales pitch more then true sound quality dollar for dollar. People are buying into the name.
I just wont agree that they sound nearly as terrible as you claim because I know from real world situations that that it simply isnt true either.
You can continue turning this into a pzzing match if you want so you can feel like you won.
For me. Im out. Its just not worth where the argument is going to end up
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Back in 1983-1984, I went with my Dad to a high end audio store and they had Bose 901's displayed amongst their McIntosh items.
The store primarily sold McIntosh, and my main memory is these: (http://www.roger-russell.com/xrt18c.jpg)
More details at: http://www.roger-russell.com/xrt18.htm
No real point except that they sold Bose 901's there, and the McIntosh stuff was jaw dropping in how it sounded. :D
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Sorry but Im not believing your ears. Or the times no matter how plenty you claim.
Kinda reminds me of the old Ford Vs Chevy and vise verse arguments I used to see back in the day. Or most this vs that arguments for that matter. One side always hates the other without ever having driven or owning one. They hate the company or product for the sake of hating the company or product. Chimes of "anything but" are pretty common in those types of debates. Which is about where we are at now.
Im not drinking from any sales pitcher. The only Bose I own or have ever owned are nearly 40 years old and sitting in my attic and currently not hooked up to anything. But I do get to hear all sorts of sound systems every week of every year simply because of the sheer number of different houses I am in. I've heard high end systems that sounded both great or crappy from house to house and Bose systems that have sounded both great and crappy. So Im going by actual real world situations rather then simply a sound room in a store where things can be set up to sound pretty much any way you want them to sound based on what your trying to sell that week.
I've pretty much conceded that there are better systems out there that can be had for as much or less. I'll even concede that Bose sells on the sales pitch more then true sound quality dollar for dollar. People are buying into the name.
I just wont agree that they sound nearly as terrible as you claim because I know from real world situations that that it simply isnt true either.
You can continue turning this into a pzzing match if you want so you can feel like you won.
For me. Im out. Its just not worth where the argument is going to end up
You are the only one arguing. For me, there is no argument. Bose sucks and there is better out there for less.
I will take my KEF's over them any day of the week. My ears are great, that is why I don't and will never own Bose.
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Most bose 901 speaker systems were compromised by people not running the bose equalizer.
You can argue that the equalizer is a crutch but all speakers have some sort of device that alters the incoming sound.
It's called a "crossover" and there is no device within the enclosures of the 901 because bose chose to supply the "device that alters the incoming sound" into a separate component.
Sure, they are missing the crazy low bass of my cerwin vega D9s but they do outperform my old magnaplanars and were designed and built in 1969 when the frequency spectrum of music production was far different.
Many here are arguing from a position of ignorance based on lack of experience.
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I did sound reinforcement for just shy of a year and a half. I worked with a team of 4 or so and our supervisor who was a big tech head on the side of SR, electrical theory and all the science behind it that I didn't fully understand. For analog signals the cables make a difference only so far as the electrical resistance of the wires themselves. Some run quad wires to cancel out interference and noise that gets through the shielding, but mostly the only differences are going to be:
Signal carrying metal material
sheilding method
connecting points (quality of soldering, etc)
external material (not important for signal, but for longevity of cable)
$1000 cables are a farce. They're making $990 profit. I've built cables myself, soldered the connection points, had to open up cables with shorts and foud how poorly they were put together. No fault of the wire itself, just the person attaching the end plug onto it.
I had to strip the old bad-quality connectors off a few perfectly fine cables and added on better ones with fresh connections because I'd do it better than whoever made them in the first place.
So yes, the quality of a cable can vary, but not THAT much. Not $1000 worth. Also, the quality of a digital cable is totally different, as well. Different electircal requirements.
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Many here are arguing from a position of ignorance based on lack of experience.
I do not have to argue and I have a lot of experience with many high-end brands.
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Me too....and it goes back to 1972.
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Those of you that are arguing that cables make a difference in a digital application... Do me a favor and crack open the case to your receiver and look at how the connector that you have you $1000 wire connected to your system with is wired on the inside. Where is the weak link? How much can a wire affect a digital audio signal when the plug is cold-soldiered to the board using the cheapest materials known to man?
The difference that is obvious is build quality but seriously, how often is an HDMI cable goofed around with once it is installed?
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And the whole Blose vs. anything else arguement is growing tired.
Their's is the business of preying on the uninformed. Is anyone arguing that you cannot do better for less?
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Me too....and it goes back to 1972.
Ice,
Do you still have the magna's,I remember them and almost bought a pair! Instead I got a set of EV's interface series "C" which came with a fequency slope equalizer. This made a dramatic difference depending on the music you were listening to.
My buddy had a set of planars wayback but he prefered his KEF's over them,again music choice plays a big part. He drove them through a Tangent amp/pre setup that was fantastic,always wanted 1 of those but they were extremely limited.
The vegas were never my cup of tea but a few friends owned those,funny how they'd end up at my place to listen to the EV's.... :lol
these days I listen to an old set of Castles driven by an integra integrated amp. Still looking for a reasonably priced Thorens TT to play my vinyl on,passed 1 up atan auction last year,could have got it for $200 but it came with a complete system and the speakers were these accusound monsters that I didnt want to carry! Still kicking myself over that seeing the prices on ebay these days!
IMHO the 901's were the last quality piece made by bose and well those are about the same time frame as the magnaplanars,vegas and even my old EV's.
:salute
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Ice,
Do you still have the magna's,I remember them and almost bought a pair! Instead I got a set of EV's interface series "C" which came with a fequency slope equalizer. This made a dramatic difference depending on the music you were listening to.
My buddy had a set of planars wayback but he prefered his KEF's over them,again music choice plays a big part. He drove them through a Tangent amp/pre setup that was fantastic,always wanted 1 of those but they were extremely limited.
The vegas were never my cup of tea but a few friends owned those,funny how they'd end up at my place to listen to the EV's.... :lol
these days I listen to an old set of Castles driven by an integra integrated amp. Still looking for a reasonably priced Thorens TT to play my vinyl on,passed 1 up atan auction last year,could have got it for $200 but it came with a complete system and the speakers were these accusound monsters that I didnt want to carry! Still kicking myself over that seeing the prices on ebay these days!
IMHO the 901's were the last quality piece made by bose and well those are about the same time frame as the magnaplanars,vegas and even my old EV's.
:salute
Forget Ebay, try Audiogon.
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Or if you're just looking for a decent starter deck/turntable you can look at something like the Rega RP1.
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I am just a rock and roll guy as long as it is loud that is good enough for me :x.
semp
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And the whole Blose vs. anything else arguement is growing tired.
Their's is the business of preying on the uninformed. Is anyone arguing that you cannot do better for less?
Don't argue with sluggish... he knows what a riff is :p
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And the whole Blose vs. anything else arguement is growing tired.
Their's is the business of preying on the uninformed. Is anyone arguing that you cannot do better for less?
I don't think anyone is arguing that, no.
I do think that some Bose systems sound "good enough", which leaves price as the major problem. At that point the issue is if the price difference outweighs the amount of time an average person would have to spend researching sound systems, buying individual speakers matched to each other, his system, and his room, setting them up, and tweaking the output levels and cutoff frequencies. My personal experience involved a 2 month process setting up the sound system for my first "home theater". It is arguable that I would have gotten results that were pretty similar (accepting the usual small-speaker Bose deficiencies) by simply spending a few hundred more bucks on a Bose system (or any other high quality pre-baked system) instead of spending my time. Hell, I don't watch TV or movies all that often and I have "good" hearing that has been somewhat degraded by exposure to very loud noise over the last 20 yrs, so as long as the sound levels are "balanced" and volumes match my room size, I most likely won't notice other minor variations or deficiencies in frequency response. I WILL notice volume imbalances and spatial distortion nearly instantly however, and that's why it took a month for me to tweak my first real surround speaker setup. A pre-made system will probably sound fairly good right out of the box as long as I don't put it in the wrong size room.
And that's the real argument, except it will ALWAYS get hijacked by the Bose haters who insist that no matter what your situation or considerations are, Bose is the product of the devil because of (insert various tech specs here). Guess what - I've found that people who can afford an expensive sound system are often more time limited than cash limited, and a number of those people are going to be perfectly happy plugging in ANY pre-made surround speaker system because they don't have time to fiddle around with doing it right. For those people, and there are a lot of them, Bose speaker systems are often going to sound great. Yea it marks them as ignorant people with more money than brains... But think about that. They have more money than time. I'd rather be one of "them" than have no money but all the time in the world to try to explain why my $1,000 hdmi cable solves all the HDMI spec deficiencies and can help prevent mythical "bottlenecks" in an all-digital media setup.
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The ignorant are the ones who don't do the research and buy Bose.
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Ice,
Do you still have the magna's,I remember them and almost bought a pair! Instead I got a set of EV's interface series "C" which came with a fequency slope equalizer. This made a dramatic difference depending on the music you were listening to.
My buddy had a set of planars wayback but he prefered his KEF's over them,again music choice plays a big part. He drove them through a Tangent amp/pre setup that was fantastic,always wanted 1 of those but they were extremely limited.
The vegas were never my cup of tea but a few friends owned those,funny how they'd end up at my place to listen to the EV's.... :lol
these days I listen to an old set of Castles driven by an integra integrated amp. Still looking for a reasonably priced Thorens TT to play my vinyl on,passed 1 up atan auction last year,could have got it for $200 but it came with a complete system and the speakers were these accusound monsters that I didnt want to carry! Still kicking myself over that seeing the prices on ebay these days!
IMHO the 901's were the last quality piece made by bose and well those are about the same time frame as the magnaplanars,vegas and even my old EV's.
:salute
Choosing the proper equipment to drive the speakers is easily as important as the speakers themselves.
If you get it wrong, it will sound bad regardless of price or reputation.
I got rid of the magnaplanars simply because of the space requirements and the fact that the room configuration at my house was not going to allow for them to work as good as they can.
We had many of them at "Enlightened Technologies" back in the early 90s by buying them from super rich customers when we installed a new "home theater" much like Bill Murray's theater in "Zombieland" into thier houses.
Most of them were compromised by the room or installation.........or were missing treble ("mg-1" lacks the ribbon tweeters of the later models)...........or were driven by the wrong equipment.
We compared Bose 901 and the Magneplanars of the same vintage (no ribbon tweeter) with the 901s and it was a dead heat with the Bose having more options in "working with the room" to find a configuration that worked best.
We also added a piezo tweeter array and tried a few subwoofers with both and it really woke them up.
We drove both with a multitude of amps and the bose sounded best using the stock equalizer with a Harmon Kardon citation 22 amp while the Magneplanars preferred a yamaha B2 power amp using my dynaco preamp.
Both were unbelievably loud.
Bose is all about making high SPL and high fidelity with the smallest possible package.
They do this using well designed enclosures and driver configuration and then equalize them to smooth out the peaks and valleys of it's frequency response.
Then you must push quite a bit of power through them.
It's both brute force and finesse that they use to overcome the small size.
Most people don't run nearly enough wattage into 901s and then complain the bass is muddy because thier amp isn't strong enough to control the drivers properly.
Most of the older 901 equalizers have capacitors that are leaking which can cause the fluid they leak to degrade the traces as well as cause shorts.
I re-capped a 901 equalizer that sounded ok but had leaking caps and it really changed the sound for the better.
My 901s finally died when I plugged a Boss DS-1 pedal into the tape head input of a harman kardon A250 epic tube amp, turned it to 11, and pushed the tremolo bar down on an early Kramer focus 1000 ("holy grail" banana headstock) until it fed back at a super low frequency............from 40 feet away.
I saw blue powder on the floor around the speakers and found the foam had gotten brittle with age and been ejected from all of the drivers.
They still worked and sounded ok even missing the foam.....bizarre.
Sadly, I am left with only my dynaco equipment and am getting by on normal consumer gear at this point.
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I work for a company that sells several audio lines including Bose, and I run into the anti-Bose arguments all the time. I usually get asked if I would ever put Bose in my house, and the answer is usually no (I actually have some Bose computer speakers that I'm currently using). I would never put Bose in my living room, but then again I'm a bit of a tweak, at times I've spent hours behind the equipment rack just making the wiring looking pretty only to rip it all out a couple weeks later because I bought a tube buffer and I need to decide whether it sounds better in line with my turntable or the CD player.
In short I'm not a Bose customer, but if my aunt, or parents came to me and wanted a system I'd give Bose a serious consideration unless I was prepared to be on tech support call 24/7. It all depends in what you're looking for.
There is a group of people out there that can listen to and enjoy Bose and if it makes them happy then I'm not going to tell them their silly or stupid because they're not going to get flat frequency response down to 30hz. In the end that's what matters, a person who is happy with their system, that's why we qualify our customers, so we can sell them a product that they'll be happy with. Ask the right questions and it becomes obvious pretty fast what the appropriate way to go is, Bose or a component system.
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I'll agree with that. What really irks me about the Bose people that they're like Apple people: They think that their equipment is the end-all be-all and it's not. The fact that they continuously throw the Bose name around and talk about how fantastic it sounds bothers me. If you want an unobtrusive system that's easy to set up and sounds decent and you really don't care how much it costs, Bose is for you. If you're actually interested in sound quality you can do better for less.
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Soulyss, you hit it on the head!
First off most people wouldnt know a good system if it slapped them in the face!
We live with so much noise most dont even know they are hearing deficient.Earbuds,Ipods and the like are taking a toll on most peoples ears and by the time they're 30 have lost a substancial amount of hearing.
I've been exposed to loud noise for years and lost the ears I had when I was into having a great sound system.It would be a complete waist for me to go and buy highend audio equipment these days as I couldnt hear the difference between it and a $1000 surround system.
Iceman made a good point about bose and high SPL,IIRC they used to make a big deal about the 96Db at 1 meter at 1 watt thing back in they day. Problem was they never told you what the frequency was that accomplished this..... :rofl I was told way back you cant drive a Cadilac with a pinto motor,this has nothing to do with cars,what he meant was you need a balanced system,not too much power to blow your speakers but enough to not clip the signal and blow your speakers..... :noid
1 other point in this thread come to mind,ya I'd rather have all the money and little time too. :aok
:salute
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its amazing how good the low end stuff is these day though, I just auditioned a denon mini system with some danish? dali speakers. I wanted something small and cheap and couldnt believe how great it sounded for less than £400 :o
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its amazing how good the low end stuff is these day though, I just auditioned a denon mini system with some danish? dali speakers. I wanted something small and cheap and couldnt believe how great it sounded for less than £400 :o
Both Dali and Dynaudio are Danish and both make some fantastic speakers. :rock
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The ignorant are the ones who don't do the research and buy Bose.
Don't worry BOSE doesn't like you either.
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Bose is the global market leader in speakers, selling well over $1billion of products per year and earning close to $200 million in profit. If they've been selling crap at exorbitent prices for the past decades, I congratulate them on their marketing success and their hard work.
Mr. Bose is rich, but not smart like some of you...
Here's how it works: companies try to sell products or services for as much as they can. That is their job. Customers will choose to either buy or not to buy. Things have a way of working out.
If Bose were a public company, I'd buy some stock because I, too, am not smart like some of you. :D
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Quantity doesn't mean Quality.
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I didn't say it did. McDonald's has proven that. I choose not to eat there, but enough people eat there to make it a market leader, too. I'm not going to call them ignorant. The more people you go around calling ignorant or stupid, the more chance you have of looking like a fool when you might want to ask a favor from them some day. ;)
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Again... If you're looking for something that's easy to set up, looks nice and you're not really interested in high quality sound or how much it costs, Bose is for you. If you have a Bose that's what you've got. Just stop running around telling everyone how fantastic it sounds; you make yourself look foolish.
By the way, it's Dr. Bose. He didn't go to school all of those years to be called "Mister".
I have a lower end Pioneer DTS receiver a pair of Radioshack subwoofers and a matched set of in-wall Theater Design speakers. I would put my cobbled up poor-man's frankenstein system against an acoustimass system any day.
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Again... If you're looking for something that's easy to set up, looks nice and you're not really interested in high quality sound or how much it costs, Bose is for you. If you have a Bose that's what you've got. Just stop running around telling everyone how fantastic it sounds; you make yourself look foolish.
By the way, it's Dr. Bose. He didn't go to school all of those years to be called "Mister".
I have a lower end Pioneer DTS receiver a pair of Radioshack subwoofers and a matched set of in-wall Theater Design speakers. I would put my cobbled up poor-man's frankenstein system against an acoustimass system any day.
Amen.
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If you work with sound, your ears are trained.
I bought a set of Logitech 2.1 speakers with sub a few years ago for my computer. I was pretty happy (still am for the price) with them. Now, as my job has me working with some amazing musicians, an awesome Digidesign VENUE D-show mixing console, and impressive stacks, well, now I want more out of my speakers.
I'm no expert, but my ears sure hear things differently than they did a year ago.
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I prefer to not use the subs for mixing.
I just use some event 20/20 speakers.
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Marketing is a powerful thing. It tells people what they "need" before they realize it themselves. When I was selling audio I'd often present people the option of a Bose mini-system, or the like, and a two or three channel system for the same money but upgraded all around. Some would opt for the better audio quality but most would get stuck on needing 5.1 surround sound. Nevermind that their rooms wouldn't do it justice or that they would almost unanimously acknowlege the superior sound quality of the non-surround system, they HAD to have surround, even if it meant buying lower quality equipment.
Marketing...
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I prefer to not use the subs for mixing.
I just use some event 20/20 speakers.
never seen those in the UK. on a budget I really like M-Audio BX8s, although with unlimited funds it would have to be a set of ATCs :aok the only mix room I have access to at the moment has genelecs, and I'm still not totally convinced by them.
coming from a studio background I still dont really understand why there arent more active speakers out there for the home hifi market :headscratch:
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I'm no expert, but my ears sure hear things differently than they did a year ago.
you can definitely train your ear. I thought mine was pretty good but some engineers have superhuman hearing - I was playing a Cardigans CD to an engineer I was working with and he spotted a timing glitch on one of the songs on the first play through. we loaded it into a DAW and sure enough there it was - and just a handful of samples long :eek:
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never seen those in the UK. on a budget I really like M-Audio BX8s, although with unlimited funds it would have to be a set of ATCs :aok the only mix room I have access to at the moment has genelecs, and I'm still not totally convinced by them.
coming from a studio background I still dont really understand why there arent more active speakers out there for the home hifi market :headscratch:
These are the monitors I would go with...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/mackie-hr824mk2-studio-monitor-2010
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I find it amusing people will spend $40 on a 6ft monster brand HDMI cable where the 6ft HDMI that was bought online for $1.25 works just as good
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I find it amusing people will spend $40 on a 6ft monster brand HDMI cable where the 6ft HDMI that was bought online for $1.25 works just as good
My cables were $15-20 a piece and I completely do not care for "Monster Branded cables" either Meat. I do have some $20 Original Monster Speaker Cable though, bought them in 1992 and I like the 12 gauge wire. But around 1997-8, they went into another direction and I will not buy their overpriced crap.
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My cables were $15-20 a piece and I completely do not care for "Monster Branded cables" either Meat. I do have some $20 Original Monster Speaker Cable though, bought them in 1992 and I like the 12 gauge wire. But around 1997-8, they went into another direction and I will not buy their overpriced crap.
I will buy them when I find them on clearance for $10 because they do have superior build quality. I bought 50 six foot HDMI cables from a guy on eBay for $60. None have failed and they work just as well and perform as well as the Monster cables I pick up on the cheap.
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Here's the latest gimic that I've found. Did you know that copper is directional?
http://pipelineet.com/products/hdmi/
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You are the only one arguing. For me, there is no argument. Bose sucks and there is better out there for less.
I will take my KEF's over them any day of the week. My ears are great, that is why I don't and will never own Bose.
Onkyo FTW!
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Onkyo FTW!
Onkyo is coming under fire lately because of overheating issues on their receivers. Integra is still the better product, but Onkyo is good.
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My next receiver will be a Denon.
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I'll be going Rotel if my Yamaha goes tits up.
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I'll be going Rotel if my Yamaha goes tits up.
A bit out of my price range. Although... If I had the cash lying around, I'd probably go for their RSX-1067 receiver. You can get a nice Denon for around $1k...
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Dennon is nice but dollar for dollar I'd get an interga amp. Look at the headroom specs of both,this can be important if you listen at high decible levels.Movies can easily push some amp past the point of clipping,many instantanious peaks that some amps cant cope with.
sound is like drag in an A/C,to increase the level 3 Db you must square the power,have a 9db peak and see how much power is required!
YMMV.
:salute
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These are the monitors I would go with...
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/mackie-hr824mk2-studio-monitor-2010
I always loved Mackie stuff, they just came outta nowhere and kicked budget studio gear in the arse. sensible designs, tough enough, reliable enough, repairable enough, funny manuals too :D almost everything they released got used by pros, when the 24/32 input desk came out every guy with an SSL in their "home studio" had one flightcased as a transportable setup for writing. I used their first nearfield monitor, it was good for a first try.
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I always loved Mackie stuff, they just came outta nowhere and kicked budget studio gear in the arse. sensible designs, tough enough, reliable enough, repairable enough, funny manuals too :D almost everything they released got used by pros, when the 24/32 input desk came out every guy with an SSL in their "home studio" had one flightcased as a transportable setup for writing. I used their first nearfield monitor, it was good for a first try.
Yes Mackie has great manuals. Cerwin Vega does too. There's something to be said for a company that write owners manuals that you actually enjoy reading. There was a line In a CV manual about the American Dental Association strongly discouraging the use of teeth to strip speaker wires... Line6 has great manuals as well.
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I'm still diggin these and their smaller bookshelf speakers too.
http://www.friedproducts.com/studio7.html (http://www.friedproducts.com/studio7.html)