Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: TwinBoom on December 27, 2011, 04:10:24 PM
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Looks like they copied Americans and russian stealth designs IMO of coarse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSKey3t0CvA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSKey3t0CvA&feature=related)
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yes, with minor stability enhancements. But it did not do that great in trials so far (or so I hear).
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That thing always struck me as "messy," if that makes sense.
You know how they say, "If it looks right, it is right?" That thing doesn't look right to me.
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The canard configuration probably gives it better high-alpha handling capability over the f22.
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The canard configuration probably gives it better high-alpha handling capability over the f22.
That's what's being said, however I'm not sure how it will compare considering the F-22's ridiculous thrust-vectoring engines.
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That's what's being said, however I'm not sure how it will compare considering the F-22's ridiculous thrust-vectoring engines.
Both planes have thrust vectoring, but the canard configuration is 'more stable' in that it is less prone to stall when maneuvering at high alpha angles. The down side being that canard configs are not stealth friendly. My guess is f-22 == (more stealthly, higher alt, greater range, better weapons), j-20 == (better maneuverability).
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it almost looks like it is more of a delta wing than the f-22, an that it doesn't have the thrust vectoring capabilities of it either
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See Rule #14
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kinda reminds me of the cold war days where we would introduce a new bird and the soviets would make somethin that look similar to it but far less capable. this looks like a fulcrum with an f22 nose put on it
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See Rule #14
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See Rule #14
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kinda reminds me of the cold war days where we would introduce a new bird and the soviets would make somethin that look similar to it but far less capable. this looks like a fulcrum with an f22 nose put on it
check chinas J-11 looks exactly like SU-27 They even ripped off Israels Lavi B-2 plane check J-10
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/86/J-10a_zhas.png/800px-J-10a_zhas.png)
and her is j-11
(http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/aircraft/j-11_15.jpg)
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su-27 is way better looking than either the j-20 or the "su-27" rip off.
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Looks like a fat F-22.
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If it works, it works. Copied or not, those are still planes capable of shooting other planes down.
I'm just waiting on the war that's bound to happen between China/Communist Allies and U.N. Forces. :noid
Fallout 3 Operation Anchorage anyone? :bolt:
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The J-11 isn't a bottom up re-make... they bought the licensing from Suhkoi to build essentially the same aircraft in China
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The J-10 isn't just a copy of the Lavi, it is likely a Chinese/Israeli development of it. There are many claims of direct Israeli involvement in the J-10's design process including one claim that a Lavi prototype was shipped to China.
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Meh, not worth it....
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http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/aim-9x/
Then just make it x2 x4 x6 the size for longer ranges. :rock
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http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/aim-9x/
Then just make it x2 x4 x6 the size for longer ranges. :rock
Not sure what you mean. the AIM-9X still need to be slued onto its target by radar or visual tracking (helmet sight). Making a 6x sized version with the range of an AMRAAM is pointless if the missile's IR sensors can't track the target at that range. Using IR for terminal guidance is possible in a long range missile (common with Russian and French missiles), but you still need radar to guide the missile in the interception course stage.
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The J-11 isn't a bottom up re-make... they bought the licensing from Suhkoi to build essentially the same aircraft in China
No they bought 100 disassembled aircraft to reassemble
but they they are just copying and mass producing
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J-20's only obvious similarities are the vertical stabs, & fuselage shape. It is not a delta wing, & the canards are much larger than conventional canards. Although Canards are probably simpler and cheaper to engineer than vectored thrust, I doubt it is anywhere near competitive. Also, during the cold war "Look-a-like" building fiasco, a Russian defector landed a Mig 31?(Like the F-15) at Kadena AB Japan. The initial reports were that it was mostly steal, very little light-weight alloys, couldn't fly at full thrust for over a few seconds or it would rattle apart. This "Hype" was used to enhance the defense budget. :bolt:
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No copycat since the mig25 that viktor belenko defected with pre-dated the F15 and inspired it's creation.
Mig 25s were clocked at mach 3.2 and possibly mach 3.4 for an extended period of time.
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No copycat since the mig25 that viktor belenko defected with pre-dated the F15 and inspired it's creation.
Mig 25s were clocked at mach 3.2 and possibly mach 3.4 for an extended period of time.
Mig-25s are awesome pieces of machinery.
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No copycat since the mig25 that viktor belenko defected with pre-dated the F15 and inspired it's creation.
Mig 25s were clocked at mach 3.2 and possibly mach 3.4 for an extended period of time.
I highly doubt that, at those speeds the heat generated would be far beyond it's design for extended flight. Could it do it? possibly. Did it? Possibly. Is it realistic in terms of combat, or usefulness? No
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I highly doubt that, at those speeds the heat generated would be far beyond it's design for extended flight. Could it do it? possibly. Did it? Possibly. Is it realistic in terms of combat, or usefulness? No
Wow! I didn't know we had someone on the boards who helped design the Mig-25. This is awesome. :rolleyes:
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I highly doubt that, at those speeds the heat generated would be far beyond it's design for extended flight. Could it do it? possibly. Did it? Possibly. Is it realistic in terms of combat, or usefulness? No
Russians aren't exactly known to fly their machines within design limits. If it's possible, they'll do it.
Mig-25s are awesome pieces of machinery.
QFT
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoPfRd3p9gk
Very good documentary on the Foxbat.
If you have the money you can take a ride in one now! :aok
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izIClWYKK1o
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Chickens are coming home to roost.
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Ahh yes, the Chinese. 3 billion minds, not one original idea.
"If you build it, they will copy"
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Looks like an F22 with an Su-27's rear mounted wings, and an F15 ACTIVE's canards.
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Wow! I didn't know we had someone on the boards who helped design the Mig-25. This is awesome. :rolleyes:
What do you consider extended times then?
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For the MiG-25 it would be a few minutes before it suffers from fuel starvation. An F-15C burns up all its internal fuel in about 10 minutes on full AB. The MiG would have less time. The SR-71 was very different thanks to its unique engines. The faster it went, the more fuel-efficient it was in terms of pounds burned per nautical mile traveled. It could cruise at Mach 3+ for more than 2,000 nmi. Conventional designs like the MiG-25 can only dash a short distance at max speed.
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1300 mile range at supersonic speeds
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That's the RB version with the 5,300 liter droptank at a low-supersonic "supercruise". Not at Mach 3.
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I'm waiting for someone to speculate on the B-1R coming out...... it's gonna be a monster :noid
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That's the RB version with the 5,300 liter droptank at a low-supersonic "supercruise". Not at Mach 3.
Yes.......and it's still a real mig25 that will go 1200 miles at supersonic speeds.
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But not at the speed you claimed...
Mig 25s were clocked at mach 3.2 and possibly mach 3.4 for an extended period of time.
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I'm waiting for someone to speculate on the B-1R coming out...... it's gonna be a monster :noid
Sort of like a super Tu-160! :aok
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No copycat since the mig25 that viktor belenko defected with pre-dated the F15 and inspired it's creation.
Mig 25s were clocked at mach 3.2 and possibly mach 3.4 for an extended period of time.
What I remember hearing while in the Air Force was that the one which landed in Japan was a slow, mostly steel, very little high-tech metals and what was said was that Russia had mass produced these cheap look-a-likes to fool the spy plane/satellite photos examiners into thinking there were dozens of these already produced. Any "Real" demonstrations were done with the few prototypes. Might not have been the Mig-25...? It was a long time ago. :old:
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Russian industry has always had problems with production quality. Prototypes is one thing (look at the Su47 f ex) the level of engineering and manufacturing quality in individual a/c built for trials and testing has never been comparable with actual production quality of aircraft delivered to the Soviet/Russian Air Force.
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The Russians had difficulties welding Titanium alloys at this time so employed thin gauge Stainless Steel instead. Mach 2.8 is a more realistic operational speed for the MiG-25 although it would do 3.2 for a short burst. Any more and the compressor tips would sustain damage. It's interesting that conjecture about what the MiG-25 was and was capable of lead to the F-15 which in turn lead to the MiG-29 and Su-27.
And yes, the J-20 doesn't look right. But neither does the F-35 imho.
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Back on topic- I wonder if it has one of these on the bottom :lol
(http://www.hippyshopper.com/made%20in%20china.JPG)
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Back on topic- I wonder if it has one of these on the bottom :lol
(http://www.hippyshopper.com/made%20in%20china.JPG)
Just another term for... slave labor. ;)
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The Russians had difficulties welding Titanium alloys at this time so employed thin gauge Stainless Steel instead. Mach 2.8 is a more realistic operational speed for the MiG-25 although it would do 3.2 for a short burst. Any more and the compressor tips would sustain damage. It's interesting that conjecture about what the MiG-25 was and was capable of lead to the F-15 which in turn lead to the MiG-29 and Su-27.
And yes, the J-20 doesn't look right. But neither does the F-35 imho.
The main reason they didn't use more titanium was cost-saving. They did use titanium in areas where the heat loading was greatest, like on the leading edges of the wing, and aluminum in cooler areas.
The Sukhoi T-4 was a prototype for a Mach 3 medium range bomber that was largely made from titanium, but as always it was too expensive for the Soviets.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Sukhoi_T-4_%28Monino_museum%29.JPG/800px-Sukhoi_T-4_%28Monino_museum%29.JPG)
It seems they'd rather sell the titanium to the imperialist-capitalist western pigs so we could make SR-71's from it. :aok
I've always liked the looks of Sukhoi designs, but I must say the new Sukhoi stealth fighter looks absolutely stunning! :O
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Sukhoi_T-50_Maksimov.jpg)
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And yes, the J-20 doesn't look right. But neither does the F-35 imho.
I agree, I don't like the F-35 much either.
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I've always liked the looks of Sukhoi designs, but I must say the new Sukhoi stealth fighter looks absolutely stunning! :O
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Sukhoi_T-50_Maksimov.jpg)
Agreed, but I wonder if they can maintain the high-standard level of manufacturing throughout their production. Perhaps with the help of China and India?
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The main reason they didn't use more titanium was cost-saving. They did use titanium in areas where the heat loading was greatest, like on the leading edges of the wing, and aluminum in cooler areas.
It seems they'd rather sell the titanium to the imperialist-capitalist western pigs so we could make SR-71's from it. :aok
I'm sorry to differ with you PR3D4TOR, but that's incorrect. The problems were primarily with their inability to weld the components due to failing to exclude sufficient oxygen from the welding process which causes failures in the heat effected zone. Lockheed also experienced many problems working with Titanium alloys but were able to overcome them eventually. Only around 10% of the MiG-25 structure was made from Aluminium alloys.
The former Soviet Union actually had an abundant supply of Titanium (unlike the U.S.) and no internal economy as you understand the term. Further they didn't know they were selling it to you fellows who set up false companies in semi-neutral countries to secure the supply for your SR-71.
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I'm sorry to differ with you PR3D4TOR, but that's incorrect. The problems were primarily with their inability to weld the components due to failing to exclude sufficient oxygen from the welding process which causes failures in the heat effected zone. Lockheed also experienced many problems working with Titanium alloys but were able to overcome them eventually. Only around 10% of the MiG-25 structure was made from Aluminium alloys.
The former Soviet Union actually had an abundant supply of Titanium (unlike the U.S.) and no internal economy as you understand the term. Further they didn't know they were selling it to you fellows who set up false companies in semi-neutral countries to secure the supply for your SR-71.
Of course they didnt, they also dont know were using up the worlds oil supply while sitting on ours. Its a litle thing we americans like to call "bleeding the commie pig"
So far so good! hahahahah,nono..here, here's some paper with ink for your raw resources, yeees.
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The main reason they didn't use more titanium was cost-saving. They did use titanium in areas where the heat loading was greatest, like on the leading edges of the wing, and aluminum in cooler areas.
The Sukhoi T-4 was a prototype for a Mach 3 medium range bomber that was largely made from titanium, but as always it was too expensive for the Soviets.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/Sukhoi_T-4_%28Monino_museum%29.JPG/800px-Sukhoi_T-4_%28Monino_museum%29.JPG)
It seems they'd rather sell the titanium to the imperialist-capitalist western pigs so we could make SR-71's from it. :aok
I've always liked the looks of Sukhoi designs, but I must say the new Sukhoi stealth fighter looks absolutely stunning! :O
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Sukhoi_T-50_Maksimov.jpg)
USA XB-70 look-a-like... the top photo.
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was hoping to see clint eastwood climb out of the cockpit plane reminds me of the movie firefox :rofl
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Mig-25s are awesome pieces of machinery.
Actually they turned out to be crude machines only good for picture taking and speed records. Even their speed records had to be done without weapons cause the airframe couldnt take the stresses. The maintenance of the MIG-25 was difficult and engine/airframe issues restricted Soviet pilots to Mach 2.5 or under unless they got permission to go faster.
Then they spend all those rubles to build the thing and we decided not to make a High Alt supersonice bomber and instead started flying B-52s and B-1s on the deck where the MIG-25s were helpless due to their crap radar. It was a cruel blow to the commie aircraft industry that had actually made a remarkable, tho useless, aircraft with limited resources.
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Speed records are usually done with specially prepared prototype aircraft. The F-15's many records (some taken from the MiG-25) were done with a stripped down experimental prototype called the Streak Eagle. They even stripped the paint of it. It is now in the National Museum of the USAF.
The MiG-25 is limited to about 5 minutes at mach 2.84, 20 minutes at Mach 2.6 and can fly a whole mission at mach 2.4 (though it will be a short one). When flying at Mach 2.84 the canopy heats up to about 70C so the space suit like pressure suits the pilots wear are vital. The MiG-25P and MiG-25BM carries their R-40 and Kh-58 missiles externally and can hit Mach 2.83 while doing so thanks to the surplus thrust provided by the Tumansky's at that speed. The weapons have a special coating to make them withstand frictional heating.
The MiG-25 was redesigned into the MiG-31 to counter NATO's switch from high-altitude to low-altitude penetration.
The MiG-25 wasn't the super-fighter the west thought it was, but it was a pretty darn good interceptor. It was also the only aircraft in the Iraqi air force that managed to shoot down a coalition jet.
"17 January 1991. On the first night of the war, two F/A-18's from the carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt were flying outside of Baghdad when two Iraqi MiG-25s engaged them. In the beyond-visual-range (BVR) kill, one of the Iraqi MiGs piloted by Zuhair Dawood, fired an R-40 missile. The missile impacted Scott Speicher's jet head on when he was travelling Mach 0.92. The impact sent him spiraling downwards and most people believe he died on the impact of the missile.
Two IRAF MiG-25s fired missiles at a group of F-15Cs escorting a bombing run in Iraq (which were evaded by the F-15s). The F-15Cs give chase, but were forced to give up when the MiGs outran them. A total of 10 missiles were fired at the MiGs."
"5 January 1999. A group of four Iraqi MiG-25s crossed the no-fly zones and sparked a dogfight with two patrolling F-15Cs and two patrolling F-14s. A total of six missiles were fired at the MiGs, none of which hit them. The MiGs then bugged out using their superior speed."
So the age-old fighter pilot's motto "speed is life" seems to ring true even in today's world of advanced sensors and weapons.