Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Colt44 on December 31, 2011, 10:51:48 AM
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I was wondering if there would be any more strat/ factory clusters added in the future... For those that remember the "old style" of zone strats, it added another dimension to the game play. Sure, some would say the strat clusters or strat zones encouraged milk running, ...but having b-29s drop one bomb on 10 undefended town squares from 30,000 ft still happens....so the milk running still goes on....and someone will always find that angle. But attacking and defending strats was always a great time..and even better when killing strat did something to tick the other side off. At one time in Aces High I, you could even take fuel down to 25%... now, Im not suggesting we go back to that lunacy...but...
Defending and attacking Factories and other Strat was what WWII air conflict was all about... Bring back the zone based strat! The return of Strat will give bomber and Jabo fans options and make the overall game play more that just Furball or base capture. The game should allow resupply of the strat clusters, be heavily defended by Ack and, most importantly, mean something when strat is destroyed. There should be several Zones staggered throughout each country, initally making some more accessible than others....which may even lead to changing the overall strategy of base capture.
Right now... we get one strat cluster, 6 sectors back from the origninal front lines. To bomb said, you fly for over an hour... only to find it defended by 17,000 Me163's (that just upped two minutes ago) when you finally get there. Please.......give us some more options. As always, thanks for your efforts to improve an already outstanding game!
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Bring back the zone based strat! The return of Strat will give bomber and Jabo fans options and make the overall game play more that just Furball or base capture.
Agree. Also, such strat has to be vital & tangible enough to be defended and attacked- as in it would be disasterous for the defense to lose it, and it would be worthwhile for the offense to bomb it- hence, a fight. Both the zoned system we had and the current system in place now fail to do this. I found this out during previous B17 missions to the central strat complex. We got there, we bombed it, THEN the enemy caught up to us as we egressed. Add to that, not long after we bombed it, it was back up to near full capacity as we made our exit & landed.
I wish I could come up with a solution and not just spout off observations. :frown:
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+1, for something.
I think there are many good ideas out there to fix the strat system. I like the ones that mix the old and new systems. However, at this point, I would happily take a switch just back to the old strat systems vs. the new one. The cities still look incredible, that's why I want to keep them around, but they severely damaged a lot of the fun for many bomber guys.
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This is one thing that DID bring out the defense in the old days. When an attack was started on a "zone base" it brought out a bigger defense crew and some great battles happened more often than not.
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I do miss making Jabo runs on strats. I don't care about score, but I agree it added to the list of things you could do to have fun. I do enjoy high alt strat runs, but the NOE B-25 or Mossie runs are missed.
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T-egg got it right.... I hate bringing up a "problem" without offering a possible solution.... Im asking for ideas on how to make the zone strat have more impact, without making it a major detriment to the overall goal of being able to win the war. I would like to see that destroying strat makes taking bases easier, but not Easy...if you know what I mean.
Just some thoughts:
Fuel Stat = 75% of fuel factory down -- slows effectiveness of resupply to affected zone fields and drop tanks disabled. 100% down= Slow resupply to AZF and 75% fuel to AZF until resupplied back to 100%. Compound that with all fuel depots taken down at a airbase making the field operate at 50% fuel. Hard to do...but a great goal.
Ack strat - Activation range of auto acts should be affected as ack strat is destroyed. When ammo supply is reduced, IA Gunners will be forced not to waste ammo..waiting for higher % shots, thus reduced range of field ack. 75% reduction in range for 50% of ACK factory destroyed and 50% reduction for 100% destroyed.
Radar- either reduced range or go back to only being able to see only friendly icons or darbar as zone radar is taken down.
Troops- Resupply time reduced and/or reduced number of troops being carried in the m3/ goon etc.
Factory strats can be resupplied by IA train, veh and barge as well as by m3 and goon for perks.
p/s Jayhawks also correct...the cities are awesome..you did a great job on them hitech corp....give us a chance to ruin them.
Looking for ideas, comments or concerns from the membership and from the company.
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+1
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T-egg got it right.... I hate bringing up a "problem" without offering a possible solution.... Im asking for ideas on how to make the zone strat have more impact, without making it a major detriment to the overall goal of being able to win the war. I would like to see that destroying strat makes taking bases easier, but not Easy...if you know what I mean.
Just some thoughts:
Fuel Stat = 75% of fuel factory down -- slows effectiveness of resupply to affected zone fields and drop tanks disabled. 100% down= Slow resupply to AZF and 75% fuel to AZF until resupplied back to 100%. Compound that with all fuel depots taken down at a airbase making the field operate at 50% fuel. Hard to do...but a great goal.
Ack strat - Activation range of auto acts should be affected as ack strat is destroyed. When ammo supply is reduced, IA Gunners will be forced not to waste ammo..waiting for higher % shots, thus reduced range of field ack. 75% reduction in range for 50% of ACK factory destroyed and 50% reduction for 100% destroyed.
Radar- either reduced range or go back to only being able to see only friendly icons or darbar as zone radar is taken down.
Troops- Resupply time reduced and/or reduced number of troops being carried in the m3/ goon etc.
Factory strats can be resupplied by IA train, veh and barge as well as by m3 and goon for perks.
p/s Jayhawks also correct...the cities are awesome..you did a great job on them hitech corp....give us a chance to ruin them.
Looking for ideas, comments or concerns from the membership and from the company.
While all this looks great for a "win the war" style player, a furball couldn't care less about the war and so isn't interested in defending a strat so he has enough fuel to furball. You have to allow people to play the way they want to.
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T-egg got it right.... I hate bringing up a "problem" without offering a possible solution.... Im asking for ideas on how to make the zone strat have more impact, without making it a major detriment to the overall goal of being able to win the war. I would like to see that destroying strat makes taking bases easier, but not Easy...if you know what I mean.
Just some thoughts:
Fuel Stat = 75% of fuel factory down -- slows effectiveness of resupply to affected zone fields and drop tanks disabled. 100% down= Slow resupply to AZF and 75% fuel to AZF until resupplied back to 100%. Compound that with all fuel depots taken down at a airbase making the field operate at 50% fuel. Hard to do...but a great goal.
Ack strat - Activation range of auto acts should be affected as ack strat is destroyed. When ammo supply is reduced, IA Gunners will be forced not to waste ammo..waiting for higher % shots, thus reduced range of field ack. 75% reduction in range for 50% of ACK factory destroyed and 50% reduction for 100% destroyed.
Radar- either reduced range or go back to only being able to see only friendly icons or darbar as zone radar is taken down.
Troops- Resupply time reduced and/or reduced number of troops being carried in the m3/ goon etc.
Factory strats can be resupplied by IA train, veh and barge as well as by m3 and goon for perks.
p/s Jayhawks also correct...the cities are awesome..you did a great job on them hitech corp....give us a chance to ruin them.
Looking for ideas, comments or concerns from the membership and from the company.
Do you know how the damage done to the strategic targets/industrial complex work now??? If not, may I suggest you head to the AH Trainer's website and read up... oh wait.... never mind, I dont think it has that info. ;)
Actually, there is a formula that to my knowledge has not been cracked yet, regarding how the damage to the strategic targets/industrial complex works. These things I know: the City is the key. Without doing substantial damage to the city all the factories will repair themselves rather quickly. I've taken a stop watch to the strat targets before and noticed that the more damaged the city is the longer the damage to the other factories is evident. Also, the more the factories are damaged the longer the default repair time is for the airfields and vehicle bases. Meaning, if the ammo factory is down to %35 percent, the standard repair time is LONGER than 45 minutes. Just how long I do not know as I've gotten multiple time stamps when monitoring the process.
In short, if you want the enemy to feel a pain in their arse when it comes to the ammo, fuel, ordnance, AA, radar, or troop availability, then take a few of your countrymen with multiple flights of heavy bombers and get the city down as far as can be, then hammer the ammo factory (or radar, fuel, grunt, AA, etc), and know that you've just lengthened the enemy's default repair time on that specific supply.
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You have to allow people to play the way they want to.
True! Not trying to change the furballers or thier game play...just saying that adding a subplot to the game for the strat players would be a nice and welcome (re-)addition. :salute
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Just an idea, change the % of bases taken to win the war and decrease it by say 5-10% and add strat destruction to 20-30% down in order to win the war. Bring back the zone system but add zones for fuel, ammo, radar etc. Flame on.
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While all this looks great for a "win the war" style player, a furball couldn't care less about the war and so isn't interested in defending a strat so he has enough fuel to furball. You have to allow people to play the way they want to.
I don't think there are a ton of people who just want to furball, most people just want a fight. The strat cities push bombers higher and higher. I think the closer targets will pull many bombers down, making it more enticing for people to engage the bombers.
I'm aware you may have just been responding to Colt's post, but I think my points valid. Those who want a quick fight, aren't going to climb up to engage people attacking strat.
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Just an idea, change the % of bases taken to win the war and decrease it by say 5-10% and add strat destruction to 20-30% down in order to win the war. Bring back the zone system but add zones for fuel, ammo, radar etc. Flame on.
I like it. HTC, what say j00!?!?!? :D
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+1 I miss the old strats
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How about adding bearing factories so the perk planes and vehicles would be somehow limited if that get hit flat? That would make a great 163 defended asset. :x
I would really enjoy seeing a thndrEGG mission of 17s and B-29s to the strats where the 17s hit the factories and the 29s carpet bombed the city. With a little effort we could see how well the intended system works but in the end escorting and attacking the massive raids really are the best re-creation AH has to offer. Even over the squad ops scenarios in my opinion. Adding more targets like Colt is suggesting is a repeat suggestion of a lot of people but the whole idea is valid. I like it because instead of having to attack thirty bombers escorted by fifteen various fighters there would likely be more smaller missions. Breaking up the horde type missions is something that would be very welcome especially by the furballers (you would think). The zone concept Im unsure about.
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How about adding bearing factories so the perk planes and vehicles would be somehow limited if that get hit flat? That would make a great 163 defended asset. :x
I would really enjoy seeing a thndrEGG mission of 17s and B-29s to the strats where the 17s hit the factories and the 29s carpet bombed the city. With a little effort we could see how well the intended system works but in the end escorting and attacking the massive raids really are the best re-creation AH has to offer. Even over the squad ops scenarios in my opinion. Adding more targets like Colt is suggesting is a repeat suggestion of a lot of people but the whole idea is valid. I like it because instead of having to attack thirty bombers escorted by fifteen various fighters there would likely be more smaller missions. Breaking up the horde type missions is something that would be very welcome especially by the furballers (you would think). The zone concept Im unsure about.
do you want massive raids or smaller missions?
semp
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+1 strat system :banana: - there have been a lot of good ideas around this :salute
HP
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..and even better when killing strat did something to tick the other side off. At one time in Aces High I, you could even take fuel down to 25%... now, Im not suggesting we go back to that lunacy...but...
+1
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I don't think there are a ton of people who just want to furball, most people just want a fight. The strat cities push bombers higher and higher. I think the closer targets will pull many bombers down, making it more enticing for people to engage the bombers.
I'm aware you may have just been responding to Colt's post, but I think my points valid. Those who want a quick fight, aren't going to climb up to engage people attacking strat.
oh I agree. I think we need the old strats back so they are spread out again to bring more fights to them. On top of that we need the old zones back as well where you had a zone base" that was part of the supply system to the other bases in that area. Fights over a zone base were well fought for.
I think more and more of the players are of a mind for quick action, it's a gamers attitude. Personally you'll almost never find me over 12k. It just takes too long to get up there as it is. High alt fighting isn't going to draw big numbers. Many a time I've seen on the radio a report 20k+ buff groups heading for strat and everyone just says let them go, can't reach them in time, or not worth it to climb up there.
Having the strats speard back out with the zone bases being worth something "might" bring more fights. only way to know is to try it.
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+1 bring back the old strats, HT!
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Don't take away the Capital though. :cry A mix would be great. :aok For the larger maps, the Capital would sit near the HQ as it would when it was pushed back. Zone strats would take care of the outer fields. For smaller maps, Zone strats are best, Uterus being an example. Just don't forget to add railyards to the mix. :D
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I'd like something of the effect that attacking the rear city strat will impact the entire country, but on a very small scale. Similar to now, there really is no noticeable effect for small attacks. Any real effect would require a large scale mission. However, I'd like to take away the ability to re-supply the strat. If a mission gets in and hurts strat, it is usually re-supped and back to normal in a few minutes.
In addition, there would be smaller forward strategic targets that would effect smaller areas, but to a larger effect. Basically, a zone system with the addition of the rear city complex.
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I'd like something of the effect that attacking the rear city strat will impact the entire country, but on a very small scale. Similar to now, there really is no noticeable effect for small attacks. Any real effect would require a large scale mission. However, I'd like to take away the ability to re-supply the strat. If a mission gets in and hurts strat, it is usually re-supped and back to normal in a few minutes.
It is usually not resupplied. I have yet to see anyone doing that, which does not mean that it doesen't happen, but it is very rare. Having watched the strats very closely during the last weeks, I have not noticed any down time shorter than could be explained by the auto resupply. And in fact, you can't resupply the City at all.
For both potential attackers as well as defenders one thing can be said: No one cares for it. Actually, only very few players do know how the strats are working at all (I am also suspecting that this had been true years ago for the 'old strats', they were probably mostly attacked for points). The factories pop up again quickly, just because nobody cares to bomb the city first.
Almost all attacks I have seen by other players were totally uncoordinated and hitting the wrong targets, dispersing the bombs seemingly random all across the factories. Of course this has no effect.
Today I did a few runs on rook strats. First I bombed the City to 24%, then dropped the ammo factory to 48%, before I had to abort my mission because wife was hungry (imagine that!). Even with the City not being really down (I messed up one attack a bit), the factory stayed at this reduced level for two hours.
A small squad of only four capable players could do a lot of damage by combining starts attacks and porking front line bases...
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do you want massive raids or smaller missions?
As escort the one and defender the other... so both. Right now its almost impossible to get people away from the furball. People that claim the high altitude fight isnt fun are dead wrong! Those are the very people that will never be able to fight at high altitude because they never do it and probably dont kill many bombers either way. Properly positioned an escort can get kill after kill and as a defender against bomber streams its the most historical method of battle in AH. In that regard AH is actually quite backward as I believe there were many more bomber streams attacked than there ever were of furballs.
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. Properly positioned an escort can get kill after kill .
There is only one thing more target fixated than a vulcher capping a base: A fighter slowly creeping up on a bomber's six :devil
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How about adding bearing factories so the perk planes and vehicles would be somehow limited if that get hit flat?
Now that is a thought.
People LOVE their perk rides. Perk rides are valuable.
I would defend my factory associated with perk rides against an onslaught of attackers.
I would most likely want to attack an enemy's factory associated with perk rides.
This concept is similar to how valuable the HQ (country-wide radar) is. There is usually quite a fuss to "keep the lights on" by the one side, and to shut it down by the other. Sounds like a fight over something very valuable to me. ;) :cool:
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+10
Some great ideas. Right now if you drop the strat below a certain percentage all the radar goes out. Have zone strats and if you blast it below a certain percent all the radar goes out in that zone, no drop tanks, fuel at 75%, bomb loads cut in half, perk planes double...cause some havoc in that zone requiring active defense of the zone strat.
I think this is a great idea!
Boo
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People that claim the high altitude fight isnt fun are dead wrong!
Well... here's my slant on that. I find I've consistently been terrible in a fighter at high alt duking it out with someone else- just something about it, I suck :P. I don't especially enjoy playing that aspect myself (sorry bud ;) ).
I do enjoy flying the bombers in that roughly historical manner however, basically furnishing the means to create that high altitude fight.
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I see us in the lunch room, Skuzzy and Pyro the headmasters watching helplessly as we all start to chant "Zone Strat, Zone Strat, Zone Strat..." They try to maintain order, threaten us with lossing recess or something but to no avail. They finally give up and look at each other with lost horror...what to do?!
I'll tell you what to do, bring back the Zone Strat dang it!!!
Boo
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well the way I look at it if high altitude fighting was more fun, we would have more people doing it. people dont go out of their way to avoid having their "fun" in ah.
point is you cant force people to fight the way you think it's it's better. you guys want some high alt bombing by all means go for it. hell have plenty of escorts, i support your right to do it. but just dont expect me take 20-25 min to climb way up there because you are bored with your flight. if bombers all of a sudden start limiting the plane set more than eny does, then I will just log and so will lots of people.
you can call me anything you want but the facts remain the same. I dont come here to fly historically accurate missions. or fly airplanes in their historical accurate way. I mean I dont lanstucka buffs or anything like that. I come here because it's fun to fly around and pretend to be pilots. I find it fun to talk to other good friends and drink a few and talk some bs about how we killed horde after horde all by our lonesome. but mostly because i have fun my way, not yours. just like I dont expect you to have fun my way, I dont expect you to force me to fight your way. :salute
semp
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I dont see adding zones or more strats as forcing you to do anything. On every side of the map there will always be people willing to fly high alt and engage. You also dont need to fly high to bomb strats. So your argument fails on all sides from what Im reading.
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Well... here's my slant on that. I find I've consistently been terrible in a fighter at high alt duking it out with someone else- just something about it, I suck :P. I don't especially enjoy playing that aspect myself (sorry bud ;) ).
I do enjoy flying the bombers in that roughly historical manner however, basically furnishing the means to create that high altitude fight.
Just goes to show you there is a lot more to ACM then a level turn with the stick pulled back into your gut! :D
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+1 on the zone strats.
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I dont see adding zones or more strats as forcing you to do anything. On every side of the map there will always be people willing to fly high alt and engage. You also dont need to fly high to bomb strats. So your argument fails on all sides from what Im reading.
now you are contradicting yourself. by not defending some strats that you guys want to pork then it will affect other bases including airplanes. so you basically want to force me to fly high to defend against your buffs when i am having fun along with 90% of the other players below 10k. you can pork an individual field and reduce ords/fuel/fh/bh/vh supplies etc. but that's just too hard for some people. they want to be able to just hit one area and affect all bases for one country. that's the easy mode of doing things.
As escort the one and defender the other... so both. Right now its almost impossible to get people away from the furball. People that claim the high altitude fight isnt fun are dead wrong! Those are the very people that will never be able to fight at high altitude because they never do it and probably dont kill many bombers either way. Properly positioned an escort can get kill after kill and as a defender against bomber streams its the most historical method of battle in AH. In that regard AH is actually quite backward as I believe there were many more bomber streams attacked than there ever were of furballs.
+10
Some great ideas. Right now if you drop the strat below a certain percentage all the radar goes out. Have zone strats and if you blast it below a certain percent all the radar goes out in that zone, no drop tanks, fuel at 75%, bomb loads cut in half, perk planes double...cause some havoc in that zone requiring active defense of the zone strat.
I think this is a great idea!
Boo
semp
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Great ideas all around. I love the idea of zone complexes closer to the front line that control local base supply...these can have minor game impact and annoyance and be able to be resupplied. I also like the idea of a Capital complex near the HQ that controls the zones, greatly effects game play when damaged, and can't be resupplied. But that is my perfect world...and may not be eveyones.
I understand that this concept may not be liked by (few /some/many/most) of the membership and may be a"no go" if guys are gonna log or even quit the game because they cant get their ride or the impact takes the fun outta their flight time. This is first a business for HTC and should be relaxation and escapism for the rest of us.... I get that. I do.
But looking at the overall content of this thread....Having more strat options seems to appeal to everyone on some level. Its the "effective result" of damaging the strat that is the point of contention. Gentlemen, and ladies (yes, we know your out their) please keep submitting any viable ideas on the zone strat or the addition of strat in general... This is good stuff, and we may yet hit on the perfect option.
Havent heard from HTC or the big boss and still would like their take on the issue ....If im P'in on the forbidden tree or something...let me know, not looking to make your job harder, just trying to get a pulse on this issue.
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...so you basically want to force me to fly high to defend against your buffs when i am having fun along with 90% of the other players below 10k.
As for high vs. low Altitude Fights... If a zone strat complex is two or three sectors back...some guys will take off 6 sectors back in buffs or four sectors back in jabos. And some guys will hunt these high flyers.... I will. Occasionally... we now get the massive raid to the Capital...mostly not....and thats not going to change no matter what the reward.... because flying 7 sectors behind enemy lines takes a long time and not everyone wants to do it.
With zones bases it will be the same. Most buffs will take off closer because they dont want to fly for and hour to get to 20,000 feet and jabos have to bleed alt and E to 12k to even start an effective bomb run....also the puffy ack at the zones was always a bear. So, my point is.... there will always be fights under 10 k. Thats a Aces High constant.
Can I get an "amen"?
Just trying to add a little depth to the game play, not change it brother.
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If you really really want to stop the High-alt bombers... "why you would dunno" - Add 20-30mph cross winds with up/down drafts at 30K... That'll really screw them up...
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now you are contradicting yourself. by not defending some strats that you guys want to pork then it will affect other bases including airplanes. so you basically want to force me to fly high to defend against your buffs when i am having fun along with 90% of the other players below 10k. you can pork an individual field and reduce ords/fuel/fh/bh/vh supplies etc. but that's just too hard for some people. they want to be able to just hit one area and affect all bases for one country. that's the easy mode of doing things.
No. There is no contradiction. I merely told you what I enjoy. I dont want you to do anything except keep on furballing and having fun. What we all want is more diversity in game play. What you want is furball only. Im sorry you read disparaging words in the wish here but its just not there.
Now if you consider that out of all people logged in for any one country only about 20% ever up to defend strats then every country will suffer a similar problem and it all works out in the end. No one is raining on your parade or pooping in your backyard.
We heard the same whine about the B-29 and yet there hasnt been an end to AH as we know it. In fact its more furball than ever (with a side of mudhen thrown in).
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If you really really want to stop the High-alt bombers... "why you would dunno" - Add 20-30mph cross winds with up/down drafts at 30K... That'll really screw them up...
Wind? I prefer to just takeoff and shoot them down.
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Another idea for zone strats. Other threads have spoken of having convoys. They could have convoys that would go from a port near the HQ, travel to these zone strats. If you sink that convoy or reduce it the zone strat is impacted, which impacts fuel, bomb loads and rearm time for the bases in that zone. The convoy would have 6-8 merchantmen and 4-6 destroyers.
You could make the defenses at airfields correspondingly tougher. Right now 6+ 110s can eat a town alive. Make the auto ack (not puffy) twice what it is now. This would create an incentive to find these convoys and sink them to make it easier to take bases. And a greater incentive to defend these convoys, changing the dynamics of organized fights, in theory.
Thoughts???
Boo
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Other threads have spoken of having convoys. They could have convoys that would go from a port near the HQ, travel to these zone strats. If you sink that convoy or reduce it the zone strat is impacted, which impacts fuel, bomb loads and rearm time for the bases in that zone.
Good stuff! I'd like to see more trains and railyards as well... attacking IA trains was always good fun...but ...what if....Manned 88's on trains and at the Zone strat??
Again, the amount of damage impact would be something HTC would have to evaluate... Regardless....more targets = more fun.