Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Angus on January 05, 2012, 05:41:18 PM
-
Happy new year all, and let's start with this one who was brought to my attention by my wife.
The Brits sure know how to make informative clips that you'll never forget :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILxjxfB4zNk
-
Thanks for sharing!
Reminds me of Snatch.
-
You're welcome.
Here is another "cardiac arrest":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fTkxwIlFpg
Well, a story of one. But I will follow up with a little story from my dull farming life :D
Here goes.
Once upon a time, my wife worked for a law firm, and the firm staff pooled up money and went travelling (incl. spouses) every 2 years.
On such a trip, I found myself located in Vilnius, Lithuania, where everybody was having a jolly good drinking time at the hotel bar.
There were 2 Finnish ladies and a Finnish gentleman drinking and toasting at the next table. Now...that means pure Vodka which gets softened with the strongest beer available. Average age estimated 55 or so.
In the heat of the toasting the gentleman stood up for a toast (I think), then rolled his eyes and keeled over, slamming on the floor like a stiff corpse with the back of his head first.
Absolutely nobody raised an eybrow about this. The Finnish ladies were too drunk to calculate, and everybody was sort of keeping a distance for trouble. But, I'm just a farmer you see, so I took a look at the guy.
He had a very slow and weak pulse, but steady in rythm (about 30 pr minute). However, he did not breathe at all.
So, what is it to be? no need for any cardiac treatment, but breathing. oh crap! I'd rather have kissed an alligator (kiss of life) than that vomit-looking-completely-drunk-Finnish-probably-lumberjack.
So, out of experience the back of my head whispered to me : "PAIN".
See, having delivered some hundreds of calves, and a bigger number of lambs in my dull job, this thing happens. Sometimes they don't kick in after leaving momma. So cold water, a slap on the cheek etc will often do the trick, but sometimes it is heart massage and breathing aid, - even did that with a foal once.
So, I pinched the guy, and twisted his ears.
No responce.
A choice for breathing aid, and nobody was even calling 999 (or whatever it is in Lithuania)
Next step, - a SLAP. So I slapped the poor bloke left and right on both cheeks, with growing strength and confidence. PAM PAM PAM PAM.
And suddenly he opened his blurred eyes and grasped for air.
Quite happy about the whole deal I helped him on his feet, assisted by the 2 completely drunk ladies who had the sense to support him from both left and right side.
When he was standing I asked him if he was allright.
He replied with a punch that gave me a bloody nose.
Next time I see a suffocating Finnishman I will probably just step ON him. Well, that was just a little joke.
The end of the story is that the guy could never have entered a fight, for he fell after throwing the punch. He was then dragged to his room, and when I saw him the next day in the hotel lobby, he must have had the combined hangover of all Texas on the 5th of July.
The moral of the story is still, always help a person in distress, just don't expect some saintly gratitude.
And the link with the video, - is there no importance of getting the aspiration to work in a condition of a cardiac arrest? My studies said 7 pumps and one blow. Was that wrong, or are people not trusted with such complex matters? For no breathing will leave you toast or dead before the ambulance....
-
And the link with the video, - is there no importance of getting the aspiration to work in a condition of a cardiac arrest? My studies said 7 pumps and one blow. Was that wrong, or are people not trusted with such complex matters? For no breathing will leave you toast or dead before the ambulance....
The Hands-only CPR technique is intended for people who have not studied First Aid and do not know CPR. Apparently something like 9 out of 10 people do not survive their first heart attack. This technique apparently improves their chances of survival.
This version was the one I saw with a couple of additional funny touches:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR0aZX1_TD8
Your story isn't uncommon Angus, sometimes people are in no position to even understand they are being helped. :salute to your actions.
-
That was awesome.
I'm checking ebay right now to get myself an officially licensed Vinnie Jones Heimlich Remover.
-
Angus current Red Cross standards are 30 pumps and 2 breaths repeat until help arrives or you can't do it anymore.
-
Hands only CPR is becoming more prominent as what people are encouraged to do. It's been proven to be effective and people are more likely to do it because it's so simple and essentially 100% safe.
-
Angus current Red Cross standards are 30 pumps and 2 breaths repeat until help arrives or you can't do it anymore (or if the scene becomes dangerous).
Added one thing you forgot.
-
That's interesting. My training was 2 breaths and 15 compressions, although they did change it temporarily to 1 and 5.
-
As I said 1:7 in my training, but that was 1987...
We trained for hours though, sadly we had this hideous "doll", so we could not train the breathing on the female part of the class, - but, muhahaha, - the doll looked better than some of them :devil
-
:rofl
The endurance of the resusitator is of course a factor! :old:
-
That's interesting. My training was 2 breaths and 15 compressions, although they did change it temporarily to 1 and 5.
I used to be required to keep my certification valid for the Red Cross's CPR For the Professional Rescuer. It's been steadily dumbed down over the years.
-
I did the St. John's Ambulance courses. I watched a television programme which observed that since you spend something like 80% of your time with friends, relatives or colleagues that it might be a good idea to learn what to do in the event of an accident :(
-
The Hands-only CPR technique is intended for people who have not studied First Aid and do not know CPR. Apparently something like 9 out of 10 people do not survive their first heart attack. This technique apparently improves their chances of survival.
This version was the one I saw with a couple of additional funny touches:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR0aZX1_TD8
Your story isn't uncommon Angus, sometimes people are in no position to even understand they are being helped. :salute to your actions.
if it is an un-witnessed cardiac arrest (no one saw it) if the ambulance can arrive is approximately 3 minutes and adequate CPR (Chest compressions, breaths and defibrilation) is given, those 9/10 not surviving change significantly. and the first heart attack? I'm not a doctor, but if it the first heart attack the heart is at its strongest point for the patient, meaning despite their medical history, the heart will never be the same strength again. a heart attack kills cardiac muscle tissue, this death of muscle is what makes the heart attack fatal. the less muscle there is to restart with the defib, the less muscle to keep it going when (Assuming it does) get restarted. I could go on for a lengthy explanation....but I wouldn't want to bore anyone.
-
if it is an un-witnessed cardiac arrest (no one saw it) if the ambulance can arrive is approximately 3 minutes and adequate CPR (Chest compressions, breaths and defibrilation) is given, those 9/10 not surviving change significantly.
Yup. Conventional CPR is intended to keep vital tissue oxygenated until help can arrive. Still no guarantee that the patient's heart could be restarted.
and the first heart attack?
That's what the British Heart Found says MaSonZ, I don't know why it is.
-
Yup. Conventional CPR is intended to keep vital tissue oxygenated until help can arrive. Still no guarantee that the patient's heart could be restarted. your very right, but the chances are significantly increased.
That's what the British Heart Found says MaSonZ, I don't know why it is. if that is like the AMerican Heart Assoc. then the only thing I can think of is that the first heart attack is generally a "massive" heart attack...
-
Yup good point.
-
if it is an un-witnessed cardiac arrest (no one saw it) if the ambulance can arrive is approximately 3 minutes and adequate CPR (Chest compressions, breaths and defibrilation) is given, those 9/10 not surviving change significantly. and the first heart attack? I'm not a doctor, but if it the first heart attack the heart is at its strongest point for the patient, meaning despite their medical history, the heart will never be the same strength again. a heart attack kills cardiac muscle tissue, this death of muscle is what makes the heart attack fatal. the less muscle there is to restart with the defib, the less muscle to keep it going when (Assuming it does) get restarted. I could go on for a lengthy explanation....but I wouldn't want to bore anyone.
Just a thought. My course was at a farmers school, and could it be a different point?
There is no chance in hell that the ambulance would be at "your spot" (my spot) in 3 minutes, you'd rather make your bet on 30, and as my neighbours conditions are today (ice & snow) you'd be saying 1-2 hours.
Keep Vinnie pumping for an hour without aspiration, and the patient is dead. Eventually the pump itself will stop completely due to lack of oxygen.
Additionally, from the top of my head, - some 70% of those who have their first heart stroke survive.
-
Could it be that the 'Stayin Alive' beat compressions also aspirate the lungs, or is it possible to restore the heartbeat this way?
I was also confused about that but I heard about it first from Vinnie & you don't argue with Vinnie. :uhoh
No Paramedics or Doctors on the forum?
-
Compressions just help partially do what the diaphram normally does. Even with a defibrillator, you can't restart a stopped heart.
-
I remember a while back hearing something about how people who tried to do cpr without a cert could get sued.
I've been scared of even thinking about trying something like that ever since (if I were ever in the situation).
Anyone know anything about that? If I see someone who's in trouble then I'll do what I can but my life and my mediocre bank account are priority 1.
Sucks that it's come to that, as I'm one of the few people who has already seen some crazy **** and wouldn't freeze up when encountered with a situation like this, but when you live in a country where you can get sued for anything and everything it kinda puts a damper on the whole "good samaritan" thing.
-
Could it be that the 'Stayin Alive' beat compressions also aspirate the lungs, or is it possible to restore the heartbeat this way?
I was also confused about that but I heard about it first from Vinnie & you don't argue with Vinnie. :uhoh
No Paramedics or Doctors on the forum?
just finished EMT-Basic courses, does this count? going to school next year for paramedic though. been doing EMS for a few years too, can give a little knowledge.
Compressions just help partially do what the diaphram normally does. Even with a defibrillator, you can't restart a stopped heart.
I must ask, why do rescuers do the compressions DIRECTLY over the heart if its to push air through the body? the hemoglobin in your red blood cells carry oxygen, without that blood moving the oxygen doesnt circulate. Going to the defib point, the heart is ran on an electrical charge (what??), and I'm drawing a blank on how that charge is started, but thats a moot point. the point is this: a heart attack occurs when the charge is interrupted, while the charge is interrupted the cardiac cells die until it is started again. you may ask at this point, how do the cells die so quick if its a quick interruption? that is called a heart murmur. a prolonged interruption is called Cardiac arrest, which is when the spark needs to be jump started. think of this way if its easier for you: your car battery dies. the car battery is like your berating heart. saying the "dead" heart can not be jump started using a defib is like saying jumper cables wont start a car. results arent as reliable as jumping a car, but same principle. if the defib isnt to restart the heart, and the compressions are not to circulate oxygenated blood to profuse the cells, then what is the sense in doing chest compressions or shocking with a defib?
Just a thought. My course was at a farmers school, and could it be a different point?
There is no chance in hell that the ambulance would be at "your spot" (my spot) in 3 minutes, you'd rather make your bet on 30, and as my neighbours conditions are today (ice & snow) you'd be saying 1-2 hours.
Keep Vinnie pumping for an hour without aspiration, and the patient is dead. Eventually the pump itself will stop completely due to lack of oxygen.
Additionally, from the top of my head, - some 70% of those who have their first heart stroke survive.
it probably was a different class you did. I did my first CPR course in my first responder cert course 3 years ago, and most recently i did the EMT CPR course during my class. there ares slight differences, but same principle.
Unless the ambulance crew happened to be there at the timme of ehart attack, your right, the ambulance will seldom, if ever e there in 3 minutes. but the every day joe shmoe must have some knowledge of chest compressions, and a slightly brighter one may have some knowledge about the oxygenation needed for CPR. an intelligent dispatcher will do what he was trained to do though when someone calls 9-11, instruct the caller through basic CPR until the ambulance arrives. this is the 3 minute point I was making. sorry for not making that clear. :salute
I'll check my post in the morning, make sure i gave the right info. 11 at night and i was doing things from 7:30AM to 6:45PM. body isnt used to it.
-
My last snr first aid recertification was 30 pumps per breath - but dont bother with the breathing if your alone, or dont have a sealing mouth mask.
We were told your better off sending someone spare to grab one the auto defib machines off the wall and utilise that (if it'll work for that person) because realistically we're only trying to give the ARFF more time to respond
Trosnky
-
My last snr first aid recertification was 30 pumps per breath - but dont bother with the breathing if your alone, or dont have a sealing mouth mask.
We were told your better off sending someone spare to grab one the auto defib machines off the wall and utilise that (if it'll work for that person) because realistically we're only trying to give the ARFF more time to respond
Trosnky
30 conpressions, 2 breaths now. albeit not recommended as you said without the mask, some oxygen is better then none. as long as you have pediatric pads for children/toddlers and adult pads for teenagers up (until the elderly, you go back to pedi pads i believe) then the defib should be fine. a properly organized defib should have a set of pedi pads and adult pads.
:cheers:
-
The defib just knocks the heart back into a regular beat. Nobody has ever come back from a true flatline.
The electrical impulses that run the heart come from the brain.
10 years National Ski Patrol, 3 of them as a director.
2 weeks as an EMT (hated dealing with medical issue patients, trauma didn't bother me for some reason)
-
I remember a while back hearing something about how people who tried to do cpr without a cert could get sued.
I believe there was a case in America some time ago when a person with a First Aid certificate was sued. We discussed it during our course. I think if you followed your training and acted responsibly you ought to be safe from legal action. I can't imagine this would factor into my decision to help or not. Usually too busy identifying who needs help & in what order.
If you ever find me trapped in my car with a lamp post sticking out of my chest, please do rush to my assistance sntslilhlpr6601. If you let me die I am definitely taking legal action :old: :rofl
-
Good samaritan laws typically covers anyone who isn't being paid. Even with certification here, if you're off the clock they can't sew you unless you unless they can prove you meant to do harm.
-
The defib just knocks the heart back into a regular beat. Nobody has ever come back from a true flatline.
The electrical impulses that run the heart come from the brain.
10 years National Ski Patrol, 3 of them as a director.
2 weeks as an EMT (hated dealing with medical issue patients, trauma didn't bother me for some reason)
what is a true flat line?
I am not saying your medical training is/was wrong, but if they taught you these things when you took the classes, it must of been quiet some time ago.
-
True flat line is exactly what it sounds like. When the heart has stopped beating completely. No AED will deliver a shock if it doesn't measure any type of heartbeat.
-
True flat line is exactly what it sounds like. When the heart has stopped beating completely. No AED will deliver a shock if it doesn't measure any type of heartbeat.
an automated aed you mean? i dont know much about the different heart beats, however i know the paramedics have manual aeds can scan for rhythems, and select the rhythem they want to shock. are you speaking on a basics defibrilator, or a defib of any type?
-
To my knowledge, all ED's have been automatic since at least the late 90s. They'd stopped teaching heart rhythm analysis to paramedics several years before I was getting my license.
-
interesting, ill have to ask an acqautance whose a certified paramedic if this is the case. i can not see the sense is teaching less of a subject when there seem to be new things or alterations by the year though.
-
I guess it's just a lot easier to let a computer check for a shockable rhythm than to spend the time to learn how to do it manually.
We did have one really really old machine from the 80s that was just to show us what the old ones looked like back when they had a heartbeat display. We got to play with it briefly before being told it was obsolete and we'd never ever not never ever gonna use one no how.
-
assuming a medics defib can detect more then thw two or three rhytems a basics can detect that makes sense. although, im pretty sure they still teach heart rhythems, but i can check with my acquatance.
-
I looked it up. I was surprised to see that they are still being made for use in hospitals and some ambulances.
-
the old defibs? ambulance services i can believe. new defibs for the emt basic are three thousand dollars, would hate to know about a medics defib. as for the hospitals, having equipmwnt that old seems farfetched, but if you searched it im not arguing.
-
nonono
I was wrong, they're still manufactured and used in hospitals and advanced EMT ambulances according to wikipedia. Although I did a lot with NSP, I realized during my EMTB clinical that I had absolutely no interest in being an EMT anymore.
-
i thought this was the case, but there always seems to be room for change even when there is no room.